Author Topic: Erika 85 v. SS PCS (Read 1971 times)

HowardH · « **on:** February 02, 2023, 12:02 PM »

I sold my SS contractors saw a few months back as I thought it was underpowered, had horrible dust collection and was dangerous to use as there was no way to attach an outfeed table so I would have to reach across to keep workpieces from falling after being cut. I want to replace it but I'm vacillating between a SS PCS with the slider attachment, about $5500, and an Erika which is a few hundred more with the extension rails, extension table, and upgraded rip fence. I spoke to David, the owner of Timberwolf, and of course he was going on and on about the Erika being such as great tool, which I'm sure probably is. It would certainly be unique with the push/pull. Would that negate the need for me to keep my Makita LS1019? Would the Erika replace a traditional cabinet saw? Is it as accurate? I'm a hobbyist so it won't ever move out of my shop. I'm already wired for 220 so that's not an issue. It's a big financial decision and I want to be as sure as possible to be happy with it. There's not a lot of Youtube reviews on it.

neilc · « **Reply #1 on:** February 02, 2023, 12:31 PM »

I considered the Erika when I moved three years ago and was rethinking my shop, I had used an Inca cabinetmakers saw for years along with a FT saw and rails and a Kapex miter saw. Sold the Inca before I moved.

I ended up with a Sawstop Jobsite pro and have been very happy with it. Good dust collection, dado blade compatibility and easy to move or optionally load in my SUV when I need to take it to my farm about 4 hours away for projects there. Plus I like the fence adjustability on it.

Downsides of the Erika - price, no dado compatibility, not ideal for crosscutting, cannot use any accessories that use a miter guide slot - feather boards, accessory jigs, etc.

I live alone and safety was a consideration for me, thus the desire for SS. I've triggered it twice, once due to wet wood, once due to metal touch off. I do have it hooked up to a Laguna central dust collection setup and have been happy with the dust collection using that setup.

I think Tom Gensler here on FOG has an Erika and really likes it. You might ping him.

I applied the savings from the SS vs Erika toward a Jet 12" J/P with helical head. I had owned an Inca J/P and also sold it. Really happy with the combination of the Jet and SS for breaking down and dimensioning wood. I should also mention, I do do sheet goods but prefer the FT saw and rail for that and purchased the FT STM1800. For outfield, I use a FT MW1000 mobile workstation which matches well with a portable saw and might be a consideration for you if you go with Erika or something else.

If you had the money and the space, the SS PCS is hard to beat for repetitive work where portability is not an issue.
Good luck!

festal · « **Reply #2 on:** February 02, 2023, 12:54 PM »

Quote from: neilc on February 02, 2023, 12:31 PM

I applied the savings from the SS vs Erika toward a Jet 12" J/P with helical head. I had owned an Inca J/P and also sold it. Really happy with the combination of the Jet and SS for breaking down and dimensioning wood. I should also mention, I do do sheet goods but prefer the FT saw and rail for that and purchased the FT STM1800. For outfield, I use a FT MW1000 mobile workstation which matches well with a portable saw and might be a consideration for you if you go with Erika or something else.

I just picked up jet 12” j/p this weekend from Craigslist. Cleaning it up now. Will upgrade it to helical head since I need to change the roller on it

How do you like yours?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ChuckS · « **Reply #3 on:** February 02, 2023, 01:35 PM »

The two saws aren't in the same category of table saws, the PCS being a cabinet saw (400 pounds or so), and the Erika not (under 100 pounds).

If you're looking for another light-weight saw, Erika may be suitable. If not, you can rule out Erika right way. Or, if you think the finger-saving feature essential, you can rule out any other saws. As a previous SS owner, did you choose it over other contractor saws because of the safety feature?

If you did decide to go with a PCS, and since you have 220V, go for the 3HP, and you can handle pretty much anything an average woodworker will do. And since dust collection sounds important to you, go with the overarm dust collection (not the floating one), too, which is awesome (when hooked to a separate shop vac or dust extractor).

HowardH · « **Reply #4 on:** February 02, 2023, 01:39 PM »

I think that’s the conclusion I’m coming to. With the Erika, there would be simply too many workarounds that I would have to do when the PCS will accept any number of accessories. Not to mention I already have a perfectly good dado stack and extra cartridges as well as a dado zero clearance plate for it.

ChuckS · « **Reply #5 on:** February 02, 2023, 01:43 PM »

If you added JessEm stock guides to the SS PCS and used it properly, there'd be zero/close to zero chance of kickbacks.

neilc · « **Reply #6 on:** February 02, 2023, 02:33 PM »

Quote from: festal on February 02, 2023, 12:54 PM

Quote from: neilc on February 02, 2023, 12:31 PM

I just picked up jet 12” j/p this weekend from Craigslist. Cleaning it up now. Will upgrade it to helical head since I need to change the roller on it

How do you like yours?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've been very happy with the Jet J/P. Really does a nice finish. Helical head is a big upgrade from my 12" straight blade Inca before it.

I did spend almost a full day getting it dialed in across the front and back tables for accurate jointing. I also installed a Wixey digital readout which is really helpful for repeatability across work pieces.

This unit will create a LOT of chips so make sure you have adequate dust collection for it.

HowardH · « **Reply #7 on:** February 02, 2023, 03:57 PM »

Quote from: neilc on February 02, 2023, 02:33 PM

Quote from: festal on February 02, 2023, 12:54 PM
Quote from: neilc on February 02, 2023, 12:31 PM

I just picked up jet 12” j/p this weekend from Craigslist. Cleaning it up now. Will upgrade it to helical head since I need to change the roller on it

How do you like yours?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've been very happy with the Jet J/P. Really does a nice finish. Helical head is a big upgrade from my 12" straight blade Inca before it.

I did spend almost a full day getting it dialed in across the front and back tables for accurate jointing. I also installed a Wixey digital readout which is really helpful for repeatability across work pieces.

This unit will create a LOT of chips so make sure you have adequate dust collection for it.

+1. I have this unit with the helical head as well. Another great thing about is how quiet it is. The DC is louder.

festal · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2023, 04:15 PM »

Quote from: neilc on February 02, 2023, 02:33 PM

Quote from: festal on February 02, 2023, 12:54 PM
Quote from: neilc on February 02, 2023, 12:31 PM

I just picked up jet 12” j/p this weekend from Craigslist. Cleaning it up now. Will upgrade it to helical head since I need to change the roller on it

How do you like yours?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've been very happy with the Jet J/P. Really does a nice finish. Helical head is a big upgrade from my 12" straight blade Inca before it.

I did spend almost a full day getting it dialed in across the front and back tables for accurate jointing. I also installed a Wixey digital readout which is really helpful for repeatability across work pieces.

This unit will create a LOT of chips so make sure you have adequate dust collection for it.

Thank you. Sorry to hijack the thread but can you post a picture of how you mounted the wixey? its on my list as well. I have oneida mini gorilla so dust collection should be fine.

Mahogany Man · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2023, 12:04 PM »

Howard,
I don't come around here much anymore, but I did see your post.
I have an Erika 85 that you could not give me a million dollars to take it away from me.
Just like Festool, there was a learning curve, but the quality is amazing.
Be happy to answer any questions, Message me if you'd like.

neilc · « **Reply #10 on:** February 03, 2023, 12:38 PM »

Thank you. Sorry to hijack the thread but can you post a picture of how you mounted the wixey? its on my list as well. I have oneida mini gorilla so dust collection should be fine.

------------------------
Here you go -

Mounted at the right rear of the J/P:

Mounted at the left front of the J/P:

festal · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2023, 07:04 AM »

Quote from: neilc on February 03, 2023, 12:38 PM

Thank you. Sorry to hijack the thread but can you post a picture of how you mounted the wixey? its on my list as well. I have oneida mini gorilla so dust collection should be fine.

------------------------
Here you go -

Mounted at the right rear of the J/P:

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Mounted at the left front of the J/P:

(Attachment Link)

thank you. I got mine mounted, just trying to figure out best spot to mount the remote display. any interference with the thable or the wheel on where you have it mounted?

Tom Gensmer · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2023, 05:31 PM »

Hi HowardH,

Seeing this a little late. I have a ERIKA 70, and am a big fan of the pull-push saw concept. Like Mahogany Man, if my van were to be hit by a comet tonight, a new ERIKA would be at the top of my "To-Buy!" list. Top level impressions:

-- Ideal crosscut machine. I sold my Kapex to help cover the cost of the ERIKA, and I haven't owned a miter saw in the last ten years or so, and haven't missed it. I'd say the ERIKA is primarily a crosscut machine, that happens to do a good job at ripping.

-- Dado: I never missed it. If I needed to plow a dado, I'd break out the router table.

-- Miter slot: Don't miss it. The Pull-Push concept negates the need for a miter gauge for cross-cuts, and the Jessem Clear-Cut TS rollers negate the need for feather boards.

-- Service: In my personal experience, the service I've received from Timberwolf Tools is second to none. In the rare cases I've needed tools serviced or repaired, the staff at Timberwolf has been prompt and helpful.

As a side note, the ERIKA saws operate in a manner very similar to format slider saws.

That being said, the ERIKA saws aren't for everyone, and in my mind are ideally suited to mobile, remodeling settings. If the use case is more of a shop-based situation, I'd recommend a band saw and/or small format sliding saw.

Remember, the SS only works after you've made contact with the saw blade. In my opinion, that's too late. To my way of thinking, you'd be better served with a machine and process that prevents blade contact in the first place. Good luck, and be safe out there.

ChuckS · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2023, 06:08 PM »

Quote from: Tom Gensmer on February 12, 2023, 05:31 PM

Snip.
Remember, the SS only works after you've made contact with the saw blade. In my opinion, that's too late. Snip.

1st stmt: True. Built upon SS's innovative idea, other slider saw makers have come up with finger-saving technology that detects and stops the blade before contact. Maybe one day, similar technology will make it to the non=sliding saws.

2nd stmt: Late is better than never. It's too late only when a finger is cut off, or a hand is amputated.

Tom Gensmer · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2023, 06:11 PM »

Quote from: ChuckS on February 12, 2023, 06:08 PM

Quote from: Tom Gensmer on February 12, 2023, 05:31 PM
Snip.
Remember, the SS only works after you've made contact with the saw blade. In my opinion, that's too late. Snip.

1st stmt: True. Built upon SS's innovative idea, other slider saw makers have come up with finger-saving technology that detects and stops the blade before contact. Maybe one day, similar technology will make it to the non=sliding saws.

2nd stmt: Late is better than never. It's too late only when a finger is cut off, or a hand is amputated.

At a high level, I am all for safety technologies. I'll also point out that if a worker is operating in a manner that a mistake or moment of inattention might result in injury/amputation, then there is a fundamental flaw with their workflow or technique that should be examined prior to using that machine again.

JimH2 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2023, 06:14 PM »

Late on a non-SS saw is too late. Late on a SS means your body and appendages are all intact.

Processes, no matter how well thought out, can and do fail.

Tom Gensmer · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2023, 06:32 PM »

Quote from: JimH2 on February 12, 2023, 06:14 PM

Late on a non-SS saw is too late. Late on a SS means your body and appendages are all intact.

Processes, no matter how well thought out, can and do fail.

You reserve the right to use a machine that may result in injury (SS). My preference is to leverage clamps (https://mac-campshure.squarespace.com) and power feeders (https://www.shopgearinc.com/products/Smart-4-Wheel-Variable-Speed-Power-Feeder-p493982362) that result in not having my fingers anywhere near the blade. To each his/her own....

ChuckS · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2023, 07:03 PM »

Quote from: Tom Gensmer on February 12, 2023, 06:11 PM

Snip. then there is a fundamental flaw with their workflow or technique that should be examined prior to using that machine again.

In the States, an estimate of 10 table saw amputations happens every day. Flaw or not on the part of the operator, the SawStop helps its saw users avoid serious injuries, and on that count alone, the technology is a valued contribution. I know as a driver the best is not to get involved in a collision, but I also know the seat belts will help me if I'm in a collision.

The SS is one layer of protection, and is by no means the only safety protection.

JimH2 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2023, 04:57 PM »

Quote from: Tom Gensmer on February 12, 2023, 06:11 PM

Quote from: ChuckS on February 12, 2023, 06:08 PM
Quote from: Tom Gensmer on February 12, 2023, 05:31 PM
Snip.
Remember, the SS only works after you've made contact with the saw blade. In my opinion, that's too late. Snip.

1st stmt: True. Built upon SS's innovative idea, other slider saw makers have come up with finger-saving technology that detects and stops the blade before contact. Maybe one day, similar technology will make it to the non=sliding saws.

2nd stmt: Late is better than never. It's too late only when a finger is cut off, or a hand is amputated.

At a high level, I am all for safety technologies. I'll also point out that if a worker is operating in a manner that a mistake or moment of inattention might result in injury/amputation, then there is a fundamental flaw with their workflow or technique that should be examined prior to using that machine again.

One can have an established workflow or technique and accidents still can and do happen. My experience is:

8 years on a Delta contractors saw with the only accident being a kickback incident. The fence was sketchy at best even when dialed in perfectly so it was at least partially to blame.
10 years with a Delta Cabinet Saw with no incidents. Great saw, but after seeing a few people with missing digits and having heard about SawStop I bought one knowing my 18-year streak would be broken at some point.
6+ years with a SawStop PCS when my first and only accident happened. A knick on the thumb and a new blade. I blame myself for working too long that day. The blade was $150 and I did not have a replacement brake which is a good thing because after any accident you need to stand down for a day to reflect. On the upside I have a high deductible healthcare plan and a real mishap would have cost me the annual deductible of about $7K + a few weeks without being able to work or worse.
Another 6 years with the PCS without any issues.
Sold the PCS for an ICS with a sliding table.

I speculate within 10 years safety devices similar to SawStop's, Bosch's and others will be norm and possibly required on all table saws. The pendulum will swing towards safety and the liability of not having a similar feature will take the $100 table saws off the market. Lower priced track saws might be what takes them out as well.

for better or worse.

ChuckS · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2023, 06:12 PM »

Did you report the injury to SawStop? The practice I know (which may have dated) is that if their exam. of your cartridge confirms that it was activated by the contact of your body part, they'll send you a free replacement cartridge. I know a fellow woodworker who still has the replacement as a backup.

I started using the SS (ICS) in 2008, and have owned a PCS since 2014. All these years, I've only turned off the safety feature once when a neighbor had something for me to cut, and I wasn't sure if it was dry enough even after the SawStop test. I could've swapped the WWII with a cheap blade, but I wouldn't have a spare cartridge to use.