Author Topic: Efficiency of different brands of abrasives (Read 2240 times)

Michael Kellough · « **on:** November 24, 2020, 09:34 PM »

Very interesting analysis here.

Bottom line, 3M Cubitron II is the most productive.

Stan Tillinghast · « **Reply #1 on:** November 24, 2020, 11:53 PM »

Well, it certainly wasn't close.
Does anyone know how the Cubitron discs fit with the hole pattern on the ETS/EC 150 pad?

Bohdan · « **Reply #2 on:** November 25, 2020, 12:21 AM »

They are a completely different pattern. A large number of small holes in a spiral pattern.

Alex · « **Reply #3 on:** November 25, 2020, 01:25 AM »

3M is always good stuff, whatever they make, and they make a lot. Here there is also a line of 3M paper with Festool hole pattern. But not much stores carry it.

usernumber1 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 25, 2020, 03:05 AM »

curious how the abranet versions compare. that seems to be the woodworking specific stuff i can get around here. mirka iridium(??)

no clue where to even begin asking for the Cubitron II

interesting they found no difference in dust collection between open mesh and the hole pattern - but they only had one mesh from what i see, made by freud

Bohdan · « **Reply #5 on:** November 25, 2020, 05:03 AM »

Quote from: usernumber1 on November 25, 2020, 03:05 AM

no clue where to even begin asking for the Cubitron II

The product is aimed at car repainters so check your local car painting suppliers.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #6 on:** November 25, 2020, 12:01 PM »

Cubitron II is labeled for industrial use only so it will be difficult to find. I only found out about it because Tayler Tools sent a notice (along with a link to that study) that they now stock it.

taytools.com

Cheese · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2020, 12:18 PM »

I’ve changed over to Cubitron II cut-off discs on my RA grinders. I used to use Sait & Metabo wheels but for the last 2-3 years it’s been exclusively Cubitron.

I really haven’t noticed much difference between Cubitron & Cubitron II.

rvieceli · « **Reply #8 on:** November 25, 2020, 01:40 PM »

If you have an auto parts store that is more focused on the body shop/Painting aspect, you should be able to get most 3M abrasives including Cubitron II there. They will usually sell singles if you just want to try it.

Cubitron II is also readily available online from a variety of sources including Amazon.

Ron

Banana · « **Reply #9 on:** November 25, 2020, 06:50 PM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on November 24, 2020, 09:34 PM

Very interesting analysis here.

Bottom line, 3M Cubitron II is the most productive.

Thank you for posting this. The Cubitron II was off my radar.
(couple of quick vids I looked at after searching for more info, for anyone interested):

afish · « **Reply #10 on:** November 25, 2020, 07:50 PM »

I like 3mCII but I am somewhat skeptical of how well the dust collection will still work with the festool sanders. Im in the process of getting some festool sanders mostly for the superior DC I would love some input from those who have maybe tried it on a festool sander. and can comment on the DC. Or if Peter Millard is reading here is your next video idea. He does a good job testing the DC of the festool sanders compared to others.

Stan Tillinghast · « **Reply #11 on:** November 25, 2020, 10:30 PM »

I tried ordering disks on Amazon—figure why not give it a try, right?
You have to certify you are a professional/commercial user and have read the safety information related to the product.
What the heck??
I am a professional user in the sense that I am a physician, but that may be stretching it a little.

afish · « **Reply #12 on:** November 25, 2020, 10:36 PM »

Typical CYA lawyer junk.

Stan Tillinghast · « **Reply #13 on:** November 25, 2020, 10:38 PM »

That’s what I figure; a pre-emotive strike by defense lawyers for 3M.

Cheese · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2020, 11:38 AM »

Quote from: Stan Tillinghast on November 25, 2020, 10:30 PM

I tried ordering disks on Amazon—figure why not give it a try, right?
You have to certify you are a professional/commercial user and have read the safety information related to the product.
What the heck??

I've seen Cubitron II paper at O'Reilly Auto Parts.

afish · « **Reply #15 on:** November 26, 2020, 01:02 PM »

They also sell the sheets at HD

Stan Tillinghast · « **Reply #16 on:** November 26, 2020, 05:31 PM »

HD sells sheets of Cubitron II, but not disks as far as I can see. HD sells "Pro" sanding disks, but they are aluminum oxide and do not make the same claims as the Cubitron abrasives.

I see the O'Reilly price is about $71 for a pack of 50 5 inch discs. That's steep! And no pickup in store due to regulations.

afish · « **Reply #17 on:** November 26, 2020, 09:20 PM »

Quote from: Stan Tillinghast on November 26, 2020, 05:31 PM

HD sells sheets of Cubitron II, but not disks as far as I can see. HD sells "Pro" sanding disks, but they are aluminum oxide and do not make the same claims as the Cubitron abrasives.

I see the O'Reilly price is about $71 for a pack of 50 5 inch discs. That's steep! And no pickup in store due to regulations.

Correct, sheets but no discs here in S. Florida too. Amazon looks like the easiest/cheapest option. I texted a buddy that uses it and he buys it out of Miami but there is no way Im driving to Miami and that traffic for sanding discs. Im actually thinking of getting a 3M air DA to try with the cubitron. They have a wide range of DA's with dust collection all the way up to 8mm orbit

Not sure how good the DC is though with the 3M sanders and thats the main reason I want to get some festool sanders. Air powered will be fine or even better for the shop but not for anything else so there's that too.

WastedP · « **Reply #18 on:** November 26, 2020, 10:06 PM »

Quote from: Bohdan on November 25, 2020, 12:21 AM

They are a completely different pattern. A large number of small holes in a spiral pattern.

I used to use 3M Trizact that had that same hole pattern. I used the thin interface pad that 3M offers on both Dynabrade and Festool sanders for acrylic solid surface, where dust collection really matters. It worked well.

Cheese · « **Reply #19 on:** November 26, 2020, 10:58 PM »

Quote from: Stan Tillinghast on November 26, 2020, 05:31 PM

I see the O'Reilly price is about $71 for a pack of 50 5 inch discs. That's steep! And no pickup in store due to regulations.

Having worked as an engineer for 3M...I found this thread rather interesting when people were thinking that the 3M Cubitron II product would be a cheaper alternative than the Festool products.

It may last longer and remove more material, but to think the per-sheet price will be less than the equivalent Festool product is sheer nonsense.

3M products have always commanded a premium price and there's a reason why they've found a symbiotic relationship with Festool when it comes to auto body repair. Birds of a feather...

Don't get me wrong, 3M produces great products but if you're looking for the loss-leader...3M isn't the answer.

afish · « **Reply #20 on:** November 27, 2020, 09:34 AM »

I dont think there is a big cost difference in the per disc price between the 3m and festool discs and Im not convinced the 3m lasts that much longer than the festool to skew the cost per gram that much. However, I do like 3m products and never been disappointed. The festool paper actually looks cheaper if you buy it in the 100 count since the 3m is sold only in 50ct. that I can find easily but does look like its available in 250ct. too but that's a lot of paper to stock in one grit for me. Its not to often you get to say festool is cheaper. The sander itself however, is much cheaper. The 3m 6" 3/16" orbit is $190 its pneumatic though compared to the ETS EC 125/5 for 425ish. I have used lots of air DA's and probably actually prefer it for shop use but will be trading price and shop use for portability since you need a large compressor for air DA's its not going to travel. However its rare I need to bring a sander anywhere and if I do I could just grab the ETS125req and keep the 6" in the shop. So many decisions whichever I choose Im sure to regret...

Stan Tillinghast · « **Reply #21 on:** November 27, 2020, 12:23 PM »

Cheese, I was comparing the O’Reilly price with the Amazon price which is IIRC $58 instead of $71.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #22 on:** November 27, 2020, 06:18 PM »

@afish what is a “DA”?

afish · « **Reply #23 on:** November 27, 2020, 06:24 PM »

Sorry its short for dual action, random orbit same thing. I think it might be more of a auto body term. Where Im from everyone just called it a DA and they knew what you were talking about.

Cheese · « **Reply #24 on:** November 27, 2020, 08:29 PM »

Here ya go Michael, here's a shot of an older National Detroit with DA as part of its nomenclature. I believe Dynabrade, another US company, now owns National Detroit.

Efficiency of different brands of abrasives

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #25 on:** November 27, 2020, 09:15 PM »

Sorta figured that (DA=dual action) from the context but the appropriate words didn’t come to me.

Cheese · « **Reply #26 on:** November 28, 2020, 10:29 AM »

FWIW....here are the 3M part numbers for Cubitron II sanding discs.

leakyroof · « **Reply #27 on:** December 01, 2020, 11:24 PM »

I’ve used the grinding wheels of Cubitron II , bought it as a trial test after seeing a video demo of 3M showing off a solid rod of metal being gobbled down with the then new Cubitron II. It does grind metal well, very impressive.
I’ve since used a few small diameter sanding discs, in a non Festool pneumatic sander, for auto body work with an older VW , but tend to use Granat since it works so well with my Festool sanders.