Author Topic: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....  (Read 2806 times)

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Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« on: September 27, 2021, 05:48 PM »
Started the upgrade today with the OEM sized head.  Had several issues but this one is a show stopper.  I either got a head with the end threads messed up, or I messed up when putting it into the machine.  I can't get the nut to go over those threads.  On a scale of 1-10 for being a mechanic, I am a solid 1.5 so kind of lost here.  Is there a tool or process that I could attach to the threads, closer to the machine, and back it out to re-cut the threads?  Thanks for any suggestions.

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Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4199
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2021, 06:12 PM »
Rick, get a thread file to clean up the threads.  You can also get dies in that size, if you know what the size is (diameter and thread pitch).  You'll need to know the thread pitch to find a thread file, in any case.
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 456
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2021, 06:14 PM »
The lead thread on the shaft has some rough spots on it that are probably making engagement of the nut more difficult.  The first thing to try is putting a bit of lube on the shaft thread then placing the nut squarely against the end of the shaft then turning it counterclockwise, you should feel a step in the axial position of the nut each time the lead thread on the nut passes the lead thread on the shaft.  As soon as you pass that step going counterclockwise, reverse the rotation of the nut to clockwise and it should engage the first thread of the shaft squarely.  If you can continue to rotate the nut onto the shaft do so, if it sticks or jams you will need to clean up that lead thread.  I would be inclined to contact the supplier to request a replacement but you can also use a small fine triangular file to clean up those rough edges on the shaft lead thread.  Go very slowly keeping the file parallel to the thread pitch and just clean off the burrs, don't file the thread profile.  Good luck!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 06:24 PM by kevinculle »

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2021, 06:34 PM »
Seems there are many types of thread files so I need to figure out the correct one.  Remember, I am the 1.5 mechanic.  I assume I need to take the head back out of the machine to clean these up but had hoped not to as the snap ring pliers I had bought for this were terrible so need to replace those as well.

I did go CCW on the nut hoping to feel/hear that drop but no go.  I am not convinced I didn't get a bad one but I doubt I can convince Holbren to replace it.  But I will look into that tomorrow.

I have seen a couple of items on Amazon that you can clamp on to the good threads and then you can rotate it to repair the bad ones.  Those would also require removing the head.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8952
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2021, 06:40 PM »
Rick your options are a threading die, a thread file or a small triangular file. Do you by chance have a set of small Nicholson needle files?

An assortment will look like this.





If so, select one of the small triangular versions and very gently smooth the first thread as it looks like the culprit here. The idea is to smooth the surface and give it a smooth lead-in so the nut will go on easily. Once the nut is on the thread, you can use the nut as a sort of die and carefully run it back and forth using some lubricant and it will help straighten the threads and smooth the surface.

Also check the nut because there may be something wrong with it, again you want smooth lead-in thread surfaces on both items.

Not having a needle file/small triangular file, you can also do some thread smoothing work with a small piece of emery cloth. Start with about 180 grit to remove the major issues then use 400 for the final smoothing.

Good luck...nothing worse than bunged up threads. [crying] [crying]

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2021, 07:09 PM »
Thanks Cheese.  I don't have a set like that, just the more generic pack of three that are much larger.  I did find a pack of Nicholson files with 6 files.  I can give that a try.  The nut appears fine as it still goes on the original head just fine.  I will try again tomorrow with better light and fresher eyes.  Thanks for your help.

Online Jason Hagen

  • Posts: 36
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2021, 09:49 PM »
You should look at getting a thread gauge and then a tap and die set. Use the thread gauge to determine the thread pitch and spacing and the use that die to recut the existing threads. You won't need to remove the head as it looks to have enough room to spin the cutter around and around and rethread it.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5297
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2021, 10:06 PM »
At the simple end of the suggestions, looks like the beginning of the first thread is pushed in a bit. You probably don’t need to file it off just push it back out.

The edge of the head of a drywall screw will probably fit that tread and it is harder than the threaded steel. Just put it in the groove and rub back and forth until the wave is removed from that first thread. Shone able to get the nut on then.

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 256
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2021, 10:15 PM »
I hope you compared the threads on the end of the two cutter heads. Old and new they should line up perfectly if not they are different threads. Just a suggestion in case it slipped your mind.Best to know for sure before you do any work on the new head that is undoable.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2021, 10:11 AM »
Drafted a note to Holbren this morning asking for guidance.  Wasn't sure if sending email to them (as seller) as opposed to Byrd but I opted for Holbren first.  I do like the idea of taking a dry wall screw to it, gently.  But I will wait on a response before I do anything.

Online Alanbach

  • Posts: 686
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2021, 07:09 PM »
Rick, If I were you, I would call Byrd directly and speak to Becky. I have purchased two of their heads recently and they have been a great help. Their number is 1-800-441-2973. She is located there at their manufacturing facility, she is extremely knowledgable and has immediate access to all of their other experts.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2021, 10:21 PM »
Thanks Alan.  I did get a response from Holbren and they said they were already out of the head so a replacement would not happen for many moons.  As you suggested, they told me to call Byrd, which I did.  The lady on the phone said they would send me an 'oversized' nut to correct the issue.  I was a little dumbfounded as I could not understand how a bigger nut would fix this issue.  She went away and came back telling me they will send the nut and a die.  No more elaboration than that.  I got an email saying, whatever they are sending, is on the way so I am crossing my fingers.

Online Alanbach

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Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2021, 11:41 PM »
Once you get the parts, if you have any doubts at all call them back and talk to Becky. Get her to talk you through it or put someone on the line with you that can. If you want you can also maybe get her to commit to a quick replacement if you can’t get this to work. When I bought mine the crate was damaged inside. The blocking they installed to hold the head securely in transit was broken so the head had moved around and based on the response that I got they are clearly used to some damage happening in transit. In my experience they seem to be very focused on making sure they satisfy customers.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2021, 08:43 AM »
Good information, thank you Alan.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2021, 12:21 PM »
Asking for more opinions here ...

I tried the drywall screw method while the head was in the machine and it appeared to be working, at least visually.  Tried to put the nut on and its just a no-go.  It is still tilted a tad.  Went ahead and took it out of the machine to get better pictures.  The threads look clear all the way around but the rod seems to be pushed in at the top.  If you think accordion, it is like the top is compressed while the bottom is expanded. 

Is this still fixable with thread chasers, etc? 

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5297
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2021, 12:41 PM »
Unfortunately, the photos show clearly that the threaded end of the shaft is bent.

But maybe that isn't a critical flaw. If the nut simply keeps the shgaft from moving laterally then the slight bend is of no consequence, as long as the nut can be installed.

If you don't want to go through the hassle of exchanging the piece then get the right die and rethread (or file). The second thread is distorted enough that it will have to be filed or rethreaded to get the nut on.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 12:46 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2336
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2021, 01:18 PM »
If I received a shaft that arrived in this condition there is no way I would accept it.

Return it for a good shaft. This will be nothing but trouble forever and you will cuss
yourself for not replacing it when you had the chance.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2021, 01:24 PM »
I get your point Bob.  I got too far into this before I realized I had an issue.  The instructions should be amended with something like "put old nut on new shaft before installing".  I would get it replaced but they are on a 6 month wait.  How I got this one as quick as I did is only because @Cheese gave me the info on getting it from another distributor.  I sent the pictures to Byrd and they feel confident that the die they are sending will fix the issue.  I'll see how that goes before I ratchet up the complaint.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 1070
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2021, 01:28 PM »
The die will fix it and you will not have trouble with it again.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2021, 02:01 PM »
Thanks Jim.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8952
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2021, 02:11 PM »
Bummer Rick…it was threaded at an angle. I’ve done that accidentally on small #6, 8, 10 & 1/4” threads but never on one this size.  Has Byrd seen this photo? It really is their manufacturing issue, Holbren in this case, is just the bearer of bad news.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 456
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2021, 04:33 PM »
I don't think it was threaded on an angle, it looks like the threaded end was bent in an impact.  Measure the thread pitch at the top and bottom to confirm but all of the top threads look compressed and I don't see how that happened except for an impact.  I would send in that pic and request a new head.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2021, 10:26 PM »
I did send those pics to Byrd and they are convinced this die that they are sending, will work.  I am not an engineer nor a machinist but I rather doubt its going to be fixed.  But I will give it a shot.  Looks like I have to wait until Saturday before it arrives though.

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 256
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2021, 10:55 PM »
In a pinch, I fix industrial equipment for a living, I have cut a nut in half then clamped it onto a bad threaded shat in a good spot. Then turned it off over the bad spot to try and clean things up. Perhaps not the best choice and it does ruin the nut but when files and dies are not available and time is essential sometimes you make due. It actually worked well the few times I have tried it.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2021, 12:06 AM »
I got the die from Byrd today.  Less than happy with instructions and the die itself but that's water under the bridge.  I had to screw with it for a while but finally got in on the shaft and was able to clear the threads up.  But...

Got everything back together and ran a board through it 4-5 times.  Looked good and definitely quieter.  But heard a weird crunching noise on last run so I took it back apart.  The v-belt is shredded.  Everything went together fairly well but something felt wrong with the chain, sprockets and idler arm on that v-belt side.  Not exactly sure where I went wrong but thinking I had the sprockets facing the wrong way.  I cleaned them and the chain and I must have put them in backwards.  Got a new belt coming (expensive) but I have a few questions for anyone that is familiar.

1.  There is a chain on both sides and they look similar yet they have different part numbers.  I know I didn't get mine reversed but I would like to know the difference between the two.

2. I saw a video ( but can't find it now) where the guy suggested even the chain has to go on correctly meaning a certain side must be towards the machine.  Does that make sense ?

3. The knob on the front for the finish type ( 1 or 2 ) doesn't fully go to 2 but it does not seem stuck and watching the action inside looks fine.  Not sure if that's normal as I had never noticed that before.  Seems with only 1 motor and 1 belt, everything is tied together so any little thing out of order can cause other problems.

4.  There is that helical gear (removed from old shaft and placed on to new shaft) that goes into the control box.  How do you make sure it fits properly as you can't see it?  Just take it on faith that if the gear box goes on, its ok ?

Thanks for your patience, its nice to have a better understanding of what's inside this beast.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2336
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2021, 06:21 AM »
"...watching the action inside looks fine."

Does this mean the machine was open so you could see the linkage operate?
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2021, 09:40 AM »
Bob, regarding the finish knob, position 1 or 2, yes, I had the top cover off and I can see the rod rotate between the two positions.  Really not much too it and it may not even be contributing to my issue, just curious.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8952
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2021, 11:17 AM »
Rick, usually a new, fully riveted chain can be used on sprockets in either direction because the sprocket profile and chain profile are symmetrical. The exception is a chain that's been in use for a while because a wear pattern will develop between the chain rollers and the sprocket teeth and you want to maintain the bedded in surfaces.

The other exception is for new & used chains that are connected together with a connecting link that uses a "C" clip or a cotter key. In those cases it's important to make sure the connector is rotating in the correct direction so that if it bumps accidentally against something, it doesn't loosen up and come off.

In this photo the directions are noted and you can easily see that if rotated in the wrong direction and if the spring clip hits something it will be removed from the connector link.




Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2021, 12:36 PM »
Thanks Cheese, I will take a look and make sure if they have the C clip version or not.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 588
Re: DW735 shelix install, requesting some help....
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2021, 10:04 PM »
I found no c-clips.  Turns out the gear box and pulley chains do have different part numbers and 1 has 1 more link that the other.