Author Topic: DW735 Sheiix  (Read 2802 times)

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Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 562
DW735 Sheiix
« on: September 07, 2021, 10:29 AM »
Have started using my DW735 a good bit more lately.  Ran into a ton of snipe issues this weekend that haven't been there before now so I am going through YT looking for things I need to double check.  Along the way I see more mentions of this upgrade and there was a thread here recently regarding the fact that there are 2 version for the DW735.  I would probably rather have the OEM version as opposed to the 'easy install' option but the fact remains its a $500 price tag.  Since I paid that for my DW735 (good deal), I have to think, is it worth it?  Is there another planer option out there that makes more sense (and sell my DW735) or is this upgrade a great upgrade so I shouldn't worry about it?  Just looking for opinions.. Thanks.

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Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 451
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2021, 12:27 PM »
IMHO the DW735 is the best of the lunchbox planers on the market and the Shelix upgrade makes it much better than stock.  I think I only paid about $380 six years ago for my Shelix head but knowing what I know I would go $500.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: DW735 Shelix
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2021, 12:40 PM »
Holbren has them for $439 with free shipping, that’s the direction I went. Also google Holbren coupon and sometimes that’ll get you some extra discount.
Manufactured in Kentucky and supplied with German inserts…what’s not to like.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 12:50 AM by Cheese »

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 562
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2021, 12:59 PM »
Thanks Cheese, so this isn't the Byrd version or it is, but these guys have them in stock now?  Which version did you get?  If I understand this correctly, using the OEM, which doesn't cost you any depth of cut, requires you to remove the inserts before install and then put them back on after.  I don't have a problem going that option unless there is a reason not to.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: DW735 Shelix
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2021, 01:35 PM »
Hey Rick, the Holbren items are the real deal, they arrive in a Byrd Shelix box with the packaging material stamped Byrd. I'll post a photo of the box later.

When I ordered mine in 2017, the small version was the only one available. Knowing what I know now though, I'd opt for the larger diameter cutter and reinstall all of the inserts. That's not a bad idea though because it gives you a chance to look closely and make sure there isn't a piece of debris in the carbide cutter seats. If the cutters are not fully/cleanly seated they will chip easily or worse crack and break.

I'd call Holbren for their present stocking conditions.

Don't forget to pick up a small torque wrench for the carbide inserts and order a half-dozen extras to have on-hand.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 12:50 AM by Cheese »

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 451
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2021, 08:05 AM »
I agree with Cheese, mine is also the smaller diameter easy install Byrd head, and it was an easy install.  However once installed the smaller diameter head requires compensating adjustments to the depth limit stop and the thickness scale and you will end up with higher clamping forces from the feed rollers.  None of those is a deal breaker but installing the inserts after the head in the DW735 is straightforward as access is pretty good.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 562
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2021, 09:31 AM »
I looked into Holbren and it is where I will go if I do this.  I will go with the larger size but I need to fix my snipe issues before doubling the investment on this planer.  Thanks Kevin and Cheese for the info.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 451
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2021, 12:17 PM »
On snipe I have found that planing in more moderate increments helps a lot, I generally limit my cuts to one full turn of the depth control handle and I always make a final pass or two that removes about 0.01" at most.  That gives me a finished piece with no more than 0.002" snipe which sands off pretty quickly.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 562
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2021, 02:55 PM »
I never go more than 1/4 turn on any attempt.  I just don't trust taking big chunks.  My current issue is new.  I have pretty much been snipe free for over a year and then last week I am seeing a line 3" from the front and 2" from the back and it is very inconsistent, e.g. If I have 4, 3' boards, one will be fine, one will have snipe and both ends and one will be one or the other (front or back).  It makes absolutely no sense.  I am doing a lot of cutting boards now and I have a littles sled but I am still getting snipe on those, that weren't there a month ago.  I double checked my in/out feed tables to ensure they are level with planar bed so I am just watching more YT, hoping to find something else to check.  Also just ordered a couple of card scrapers to help clean up the issues but have never used them before so we'll see how that goes.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2295
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2021, 04:40 PM »
When I have battelled snipe on my DW735 I feed the work into the planer at as much of an angle as I can, up to ~40 degrees. This seems to kill the snipe. The wider your piece is the less effective it is but it has worked for me.

Now I have the Shelix with the small head (cause that's all they had at the time) and I am not seeing snipe. I have not adjusted the depth of cut gauge yet or recalibrated anything. Like many of you I have always used my calipers to check thickness.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: DW735 Shelix
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2021, 10:20 PM »
I've been wrestling with the snipe issue since I purchased the 735 in 2008. Sometimes lots of snipe, sometimes reasonable snipe & sometimes no snipe. It's all over the map, snipe/no snipe with the original blades, snipe/no snipe with new carbide blades and snipe/no snipe with the Shelix.

I can readjust the tables until the snipe is gone and then a week later the snipe returns, I've pretty much given up and have relied on 2 different methods to mitigate the snipe issue.

The 1st is to reduce the thickness of my cuts to .015" max per pass, the less you remove the less your snipe can be...just makes sense.

The 2nd is to butt boards end to end and to run them as a continuous board, that way the rollers never lower or change their pressure.

So for the first board, unless I use a sacrificial board preceding it, I will have some snipe, all the rest of the boards are run through butt-to-butt in a continuous manner and I will then run through a board that has already been thickness planed as the final board so again the rollers can't change the load.

In this way only the first board will have snipe. It takes some practice and some organization to run the boards through, withdraw the finished boards and put in the yet-to-be planed boards all the while the planer is running in real time, but the results are worth the effort. For long boards this is definitely a 2-person program.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 12:51 AM by Cheese »

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 562
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2021, 11:06 PM »
When I have battelled snipe on my DW735 I feed the work into the planer at as much of an angle as I can, up to ~40 degrees. This seems to kill the snipe. The wider your piece is the less effective it is but it has worked for me.

Now I have the Shelix with the small head (cause that's all they had at the time) and I am not seeing snipe. I have not adjusted the depth of cut gauge yet or recalibrated anything. Like many of you I have always used my calipers to check thickness.

Thanks Bob, that angle thing is interesting, will try that.  I had asked the folks at Byrd if the shelix will help with snipe but its one of the questions they did not answer.  Since its the head, and it seems the spring loaded rollers are the bigger part of the problem, I would think the shelix would not help with snipe but I am seeing that there isn't much logic (as Cheese attests to above) to this snipe issue.

The 1st is to reduce the thickness of my cuts to .015" max per pass, the less you remove the less your snipe can be...just makes sense.

The 2nd is to butt boards end to end and to run them as a continuous board, that way the rollers never lower or change their pressure.
If I have my math right, that .015" equates to a 1/4 turn on the dial (1/64th")?  Thats what I do.  It is either that, or less.

WRT to your 2nd bullet, I saw a terrific video yesterday about snipe on the DW735 and thats one of his best solutions.  He has a name like 'Plan your plane train' and its pretty much what you suggest.  Sacrificial boards on both ends.  Here is the video if anyone is interested.


Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: DW735 Shelix
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2021, 11:38 PM »
Rick, the "Plane Train" is definitely my preferred method. It really works well, but for one person it takes some coordination and planning. But, it is the best method out there short of purchasing a 1 ton Northfield or Buss planer.  [smile]

Another method I've used is to run the boards through and then the last 2-3 runs only dial in a .005" dimensional change. Basically the snipe stays as it is but the surface thickness of the board is reduced by .005" and consequently the snipe depth is then reduced by .005".

I use a Wixey digital read out and it's spot on after you dial it in. I'll caliper a board, dial in a cut of .005" and the board will now caliper out at .005" less material. A great tool for an inexpensive price.  [smile]
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 12:51 AM by Cheese »

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 451
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2021, 07:35 AM »
Yes the "plane train" is a great technique although, depending on how many boards are in the train and how long (or short) they are it can get pretty hectic keeping the train closely coupled.  Another tactic I use is having a long outfeed support.  I have a stout antique workbench that belonged to my wife's grandfather and I fabricated supports for the legs that bring it up as close as I could get it to parallel to and just a hair below the DW735 working surface (infeed extension/table/outfeed extension).  That limits the amount the workpiece kicks upwards as the rear end exits the first feed roller which is the primary cause of snipe.  +1 on the Wixey DRO, best short money you can spend on your 735.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 07:45 AM by kevinculle »

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 562
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2021, 07:47 AM »
I have seen several folks point out the Wixey but I haven't looked into it yet.  I am so used to just having my caliper right there, I don't think about that need.  But it looks like it makes sense to get one.

I like the longer in/out feed tables.  I have seen one video where a fellow built a sled with a couple feet on both ends and a actually secured it to his planar bed so its one solid 5'-6' flat space.  I like that idea if I can carve out some space in the shop to dedicate to it.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2295
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2021, 07:51 AM »
Yes the "plane train" is a great technique although, depending on how many boards are in the train and how long (or short) they are it can get pretty hectic keeping the train closely coupled.  Another tactic I use is having a long outfeed support.  I have a stout antique workbench that belonged to my wife's grandfather and I fabricated supports for the legs that bring it up as close as I could get it to parallel to and just a hair below the DW735 working surface (infeed extension/table/outfeed extension).  That prevents the workpiece from kicking upwards as the rear end exits the first feed roller which is the primary cause of snipe.

The RIDGID FlipTop stands are nice for infeed and outfeed support, much better than the roller type stands. I have been using a pair with my planer, jointer, and bandsaw for years. Looking at the current price of ~$32 at HD(best price) maybe they are not such as bargain as they once were. I paid $19 each for mine but that was back around 2004/05.

https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/flip-top-portable-work-support
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: DW735 Shelix
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2021, 11:14 AM »
Hey Rick, the Holbren items are the real deal, they arrive in a Byrd Shelix box with the packaging material stamped Byrd. I'll post a photo of the box later.

Hey @Rick Herrick  here are the photos I promised.

The outside of the package I received from Holbren.




The inside of the package with the Byrd Tool logo.




Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 562
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2021, 01:55 PM »
Thanks Cheese.  Watched another video from an older carpenter/woodworker and he feels the shelix is great on a jointer but he feels with good blades in his DW735, he feels he gets as good a cut as possible.  I do get great cuts on mine and I haven't even flipped the blades yet.  So I am still on the fence for this one.

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1521
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2021, 04:59 PM »
@Rick Herrick there’s nothing wrong with finish from sharp straight knives on most planers. The main complaint on the Dewalt was that the stock knives didn’t stay sharp very long. There are straight knife alternatives these days that last longer.

You’ll probably get less tear out on figured woods or woods where the grain is wild. But it’s not a miracle worker. Their biggest appeal to me any way is the automatic setup rather getting the dial indicator out. Plus the ability to replace single knife blocks instead of the whole blade.

Ron

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 491
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2021, 05:13 PM »
The first time I used my DW735 the blades chipped. I think they need a micro bevel to strengthen the edge.

I built a very simple jig to hold the blades and gave them a going over with a pair of diamond hones. I think they are 500 and 1200 grit DMTs

I made a jig similar for a 20" single edge blade and used screws to adjust the height of the blade, but because these are 2 sided I just insured the cut and width to the edge worked for the angle I wanted. I honed both edges and put them back in the planer and have not had any chipping issues since.

My micro bevel is just lifted off the main bevel a bit so as not to lose clearance.

I believe I set the saw at 38 degrees for the cut making sure it was shallow then re-cutting deeper until I had the correct bevel.

I had a Byrd head on my 20" planer and think they are great, but I don't mill enough to justify it on this planer.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: DW735 Shelix
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2021, 05:24 PM »
@Rick Herrick there’s nothing wrong with finish from sharp straight knives on most planers. The main complaint on the Dewalt was that the stock knives didn’t stay sharp very long. There are straight knife alternatives these days that last longer.

You’ll probably get less tear out on figured woods or woods where the grain is wild. But it’s not a miracle worker. Their biggest appeal to me any way is the automatic setup rather getting the dial indicator out. Plus the ability to replace single knife blocks instead of the whole blade.

Ron

I'll just add to Ron's  [2cents] 

I've gone through standard Dewalt knives planing normal cedar. There were probably some mineral deposits within the wood but still the Dewalt knives are very soft. Also, they cannot be sharpened so they just get pitched.

I found some carbide replacement knives but they were $250-$300, more than half of what a Shelix was going for at the time.

What really helped make up my mind was when I was planing birds eye maple and the straight knives removed 50%-60% of the eyes...I was left with boards that had tiny craters in the surface. [crying] To finish that project I had to rent a Timesaver.  [sad]

The Shelix works very well with birds eye maple, curly maple and tiger maple. It would also work well for planing any crotch woods and each carbide insert gives you 4 new edges. If you need to purchase an insert they're only $8-$10 each. I keep 6 of them on-hand for any emergencies.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2021, 06:24 PM by Cheese »

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 451
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2021, 09:10 PM »
A not yet mentioned benefit of the Shelix head on the DW735 is the considerable reduction in the noise level of the planer in operation.  I measured mine before and after the head swap using the same piece of wide maple stock and taking the same depth cut and the Byrd head reduced the noise level by about 12dB, which is a huge improvement.  If you're smart you will still wear ear protection but the people in other parts of the house will easily notice the difference.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 562
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2021, 10:58 PM »
It appears, from these last few replies, that it still may be a good idea to make the change.  Its hard to understand how many blade/insert changes would be needed for, say, a 5 year period.  I am definitely using it more than I did its first 2 years.  I also like the thought of less noise. I have to work in my garage and I don't start making any noise until at least noon, just to keep my family from as much noise as possible.  Thanks Cheese, Ron and Oldwood for the extra information.

Offline edwarmr

  • Posts: 256
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2021, 11:30 PM »
Replacement inserts are only $3 a piece so you know. 10 for $29.95 at Holbren. That comes out to less than $1 per side of each insert. And actually Holbren sells them cheaper and with free shipping through Amazon. 10 for $29.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BSEWXG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATZIFHS3ARDEL&psc=1

https://www.holbren.com/Byrd_Tool_B4600?gclid=CjwKCAjwyvaJBhBpEiwA8d38vDBR5b3KqnqG7RGvP4sDu1G5nxjbNZNIExToQRw7j0_q4hOXpWPiBhoCEb0QAvD_BwE

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2021, 12:41 AM »
A not yet mentioned benefit of the Shelix head on the DW735 is the considerable reduction in the noise level of the planer in operation.  I measured mine before and after the head swap using the same piece of wide maple stock and taking the same depth cut and the Byrd head reduced the noise level by about 12dB, which is a huge improvement.  If you're smart you will still wear ear protection but the people in other parts of the house will easily notice the difference.

To add to Kevin's statement, there's another thread floating around here that specifically mentions how much the noise level is reduced. I measured it with a simple app that I added to my phone and noted a 10db reduction in sound pressure level. The sound signature goes from a mind numbing shriek to something that is a lot more family & pet friendly. There are so many good reasons to swap the straight blades out for the Shelix.

This discussion rather reminds me of the HSS table saw blades vs the carbide insert table saw blade discussion that we had 30 years ago. There was a very vociferous contingent that felt HSS table saw blades were sharper and thus produced a better cut. Well, we now know how that discussion ended.  [smile]

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2021, 12:54 AM »
Replacement inserts are only $3 a piece so you know. 10 for $29.95 at Holbren. That comes out to less than $1 per side of each insert. And actually Holbren sells them cheaper and with free shipping through Amazon. 10 for $29.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BSEWXG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATZIFHS3ARDEL&psc=1

https://www.holbren.com/Byrd_Tool_B4600?gclid=CjwKCAjwyvaJBhBpEiwA8d38vDBR5b3KqnqG7RGvP4sDu1G5nxjbNZNIExToQRw7j0_q4hOXpWPiBhoCEb0QAvD_BwE

Thanks neighbor  [smile]  for that information...those prices have seriously declined in the last couple of years. The original inserts were made in Germany by Tigra.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 451
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2021, 11:35 AM »
...Its hard to understand how many blade/insert changes would be needed for, say, a 5 year period. 


In 6 years of moderately heavy hobbyist use I have replaced I think two inserts that cracked and have maybe rotated 3 or 4 others that developed a small chip in the edge.  Otherwise I am running on the original edges.  I don't think I'll live long enough to have to replace inserts due to wear.  When I was running the DeWalt blades I would guess I would get perhaps one to two years on a set.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2295
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2021, 11:42 AM »
How long would it be before you see a mark from a chipped insert?

Don't they overlap from one row to the next so wouldn't it take a couple of inserts to be chipped before you see any sign in your workpiece. Or are you doing a visual inspection periodically and seeing the nicked or cracked inserts.

Since I just recently installed the Shelix head I want to know what to watch out for.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 562
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2021, 12:50 PM »
Just placed the order for the head, their little torque wrench and a spare box of inserts.  Fingers crossed.  Guess I need to go get some snap ring pliers and a 24mm socket.  Thanks for everyones help.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 562
Re: DW735 Sheiix
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2021, 10:57 PM »
This baby got here in 2 days.  Very nice service Holbren, thank you.  Got half a dozen cutting boards to clean up in the planar and then I hope to install the new head.