Author Topic: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter  (Read 27131 times)

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Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« on: March 30, 2017, 10:51 AM »
I've been using steel cutters in my 735, but in no time at all they're nicked.  So today I said that I was going to get carbide blades and try to cut down on cutter cost. 

The carbide blades that I found were half the cost of the Byrd head.  When you realize that (1) the Byrd cutter comes with new installed bearings and (2) because you can flip the Byrd cutters four times the mileage difference between the Byrd and regular carbide cutter's is very significant.  The Byrd appears to be the winner hands down.

That said, I have read that some user's of these spiral cutters experience 'grooving' rather than a nice smooth surface.  The claimed solution was to remove the problem cutter, clean and replace it and they were good to go.

While I would like to have a Byrd cutter installed on my 735, I can't help but wonder if I'm not creating a new problem while trying to solve an old one.  My planer is generally the last machine that surfaces my stock - both sides - and would like to get this right before I take the plunge and grab the Byrd head.

All thoughts and comments are most welcome, especially if you use one of the spiral cutters in your planer.

Thanks!
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2017, 11:09 AM »

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2017, 12:23 PM »
@Cheese

Thanks for the link.

I have ZERO issues with my 735.  It has operated and cut flawlessly since the day I put it into operation.  The 735 replaced my 733 and the three knives of the 735 made a huge difference.

My issue is whether to replace the straight cutter head knives with a spiral cutter head. From all that I have read thus far, I may be better off replacing my steel knives with carbide ones and just move on.

Thanks again.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2017, 12:36 PM »
I installed the Byrd head in my DW735 after using it for about 8 years with standard blades.  My experience with the Byrd replacement:

-Pretty straightforward installation, I think I had to buy a set of snap ring pliers and other than that standard tools.
-Huge improvement in the noise signature of the planer...I took before and after sound meter readings planing the same wide piece of hard maple and the Byrd head was 14dbA (best recollection) quieter than the stock head.
-Surface finish in general is better with the Byrd head than the stock blades.  If you use strong side lighting and a magnifying lens you can indeed see a very subtle scalloping pattern but the surface levels with significantly less coarse sanding than I was used to with the stock head.  As a matter of fact I bought a Jet 16-32 drum sander a few years back for 1st stage sanding and I have hardly used it since installing the Byrd heads (put one on my jointer also).
-The only real negative I can report is that the Byrd head has a slightly smaller cutting diameter than the stock head, I know this because the stops you can set with the dial to the left used to register dead on with the stock head and they are now maybe 0.008" off with the lumber being fat of the stock setting.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2017, 12:42 PM »
I also owned the 733, and the 735 is a huge step forward as far as the automatic cutter lock and the chip blower fan goes.

I'm very satisfied with the 735 except for the knives dulling rapidly and it also produces snipe on a more regular basis. [eek] I've tried adjusting the tables numerous times but the 735 is just susceptible to snipe.

I've also been wanting to convert my 735 to a Shelix head but keep going back and forth between carbide blades or Shelix. If I remember correctly, the carbide blades were almost 65% of the price of a Shelix and they still need to be sharpened every now & then.

If you do go carbide, I'd love to hear about your results. At this time I'm still sitting on the fence.  [popcorn]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2017, 12:53 PM »
Huge improvement in the noise signature of the planer...I took before and after sound meter readings planing the same wide piece of hard maple and the Byrd head was 14dbA (best recollection) quieter than the stock head.

The only real negative I can report is that the Byrd head has a slightly smaller cutting diameter than the stock head, I know this because the stops you can set with the dial to the left used to register dead on with the stock head and they are now maybe 0.008" off with the lumber being fat of the stock setting.

The noise improvement is huge. Even though I use muffs, the wife and dogs certainly don't appreciate the whine coming from downstairs.

I'm assuming that because I have a Wixey digital height gauge on the 735, the .008" discrepancy can be zeroed out.

Offline patriot

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2017, 02:50 PM »
@kevinculle

Thanks for all the info.  Great post.

Appreciate the fact that you mentioned the scalloping effect of the cutters, but your mention of the db factor triggered my memory.  I have to make my dog sit outside the shop when the Jet vac and the 735 are running because the noise is horrendous even with my muffs on.  Sometimes I have those machines running for 15-20 minutes (or longer?) and it nearly gives me a headache.  Very glad you pointed that out as I had forgotten about that.

I have no issue with the built-in stops because I use an 8-foot bed that runs through my 735.  Photos will be posted below.

If I do switch to the spiral cutter head I will miss the mirror perfect cut of newly installed steel cutters. IMHO, they leave an amazing finish, but alas, that magic does not last very long. 

I have carbide cutters in my DJ-20, but they also have nicks.  I usually replace them about once a year or so.  As I noted earlier, it is the planer that makes the final pass over my stock, so nicks in the jointer blades are not that big of a concern to me.

Thanks again for a very informative post.  I really appreciate your feedback.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline patriot

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2017, 03:16 PM »
@Cheese

I hear you on the 735 snipe.  I built an 8-foot bed that ran through my 733 and had to make it wider when I got my 735.  My 'method' for combatting the snipe is to (1) raise the stock as I feed it into the cutters and (2) do the same as it exits the cutters. However, what I have found that works in addition to the above process is to take miniscule cuts when I am nearing my final dimension.  By miniscule I mean lowering the head less than 1/4 turn of the wheel.  This works for me.  The lighting in my shop is such that I can actually see - and feel - the snipe which is a good thing.

As to the long bed, I once leveled it perfectly and just knew that was the key to ridding myself of snipe.  Wrong!  That may have actually made it worse.  I think I built this bed over ten years ago and I do not think I could ever work without it.  I will say that I make certain that the melamine bed lays perfectly flat against the 735's built-in infeed/outfeed tables.  I use a feeler gauge for this as shown below.  IMHO, the ends of the bed do not have to be perfectly level because as I noted above, I raise the stock as it enters and leaves the machine which voids any benefit a perfectly level bed would provide.  This is just my experience with this planer bed.







'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2017, 03:52 PM »

I'm assuming that because I have a Wixey digital height gauge on the 735, the .008" discrepancy can be zeroed out.

I also have the Wixey on my 735 and on my drum sander...great addition to already good tools.  Yes, since the Wixey is calibrated to a piece that has been planed it will read accurately.  The issue I was describing is the resulting offset on the DW735's thickness stop setting.  If you are in the habit of say setting the stop to 3/4 and just feeding and twirling until you hit the stop then the Byrd head will have you at about 0.76" instead of 0.75.  With the Wixey I never really use the thickness stop but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1739
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2017, 04:49 PM »
Good thread, thanks all for your posts, very informative.
I've had my 735 for many years and thought a couple times
about replacing the cutter head.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online grbmds

  • Posts: 2009
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2017, 05:17 PM »
@Cheese

I hear you on the 735 snipe.  I built an 8-foot bed that ran through my 733 and had to make it wider when I got my 735.  My 'method' for combatting the snipe is to (1) raise the stock as I feed it into the cutters and (2) do the same as it exits the cutters. However, what I have found that works in addition to the above process is to take miniscule cuts when I am nearing my final dimension.  By miniscule I mean lowering the head less than 1/4 turn of the wheel.  This works for me.  The lighting in my shop is such that I can actually see - and feel - the snipe which is a good thing.

As to the long bed, I once leveled it perfectly and just knew that was the key to ridding myself of snipe.  Wrong!  That may have actually made it worse.  I think I built this bed over ten years ago and I do not think I could ever work without it.  I will say that I make certain that the melamine bed lays perfectly flat against the 735's built-in infeed/outfeed tables.  I use a feeler gauge for this as shown below.  IMHO, the ends of the bed do not have to be perfectly level because as I noted above, I raise the stock as it enters and leaves the machine which voids any benefit a perfectly level bed would provide.  This is just my experience with this planer bed.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

@patriot  I get no snipe (or only very rarely) on my 735. I found the key to eliminating snipe is to raise the outer edges of the infeed and outfeed extensions just slightly above level. This accomplishes the same thing as raising the outer end of the board with your hands but I've found it's a better solution. It only takes a slight adjustment above level to make a difference.

As for the cutter head, I've watched the videos about changing the butterhead. It might be a "straight forward installation" for a mechanic or a machinist, but not for me. I would never even think of it. There is no question you will get better results with a segmented/helical butterhead, though. I have an 8" jointer with a helical head (not Shelix) and it does a great job; quieter too. The slight ridges or scallops are insignificant os I wouldn't let that stop you from doing it. However, given the amount of effort involved in installation, I would suggest replacement of the planer or just living with steel or carbide blades. I personally have never found the wear on blades that problematic and the carbide tipped blades don't seem to be worth the extra cost.

I have always loved my 735 and it continues to do a great job for me.
Randy

Offline montyss

  • Posts: 38
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2017, 09:50 PM »
Changed my 735 to the Bryd years ago and would never think about having anything but one now . When installing the carbide cutters in the head its best to make sure that the seat where the cutter sits is clean then use a small torque wrench to set each carbide cutter to the proper torque . Mostly do hard maple with mine and the standard blades lasted no time before they where dull .

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2017, 10:54 PM »
Changed my 735 to the Bryd years ago and would never think about having anything but one now . When installing the carbide cutters in the head its best to make sure that the seat where the cutter sits is clean then use a small torque wrench to set each carbide cutter to the proper torque . Mostly do hard maple with mine and the standard blades lasted no time before they where dull .

Thanks for the info.

Does the Byrd installation manual state what the proper torque is for locking down the cutters?  Maybe I can find the installation PDF and take a look at it.

I'm beginning to think that the Byrd cutter is the best way to go, but I'm still worried about the so-called scalloping due to the small cutters.  Hopefully, I will find a close-up photo of this in the near future.

I appreciate your feedback.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline patriot

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2017, 11:01 PM »
@grbmds

Thanks for your very informative post.

I think I will try your suggestion and raise the infeed/outfeed ends of my melamine planer table and see how that goes.  Raising the stock as it is being fed in is not much of a problem, but lifting it up as it exits can be a chore especially if the stock is long and dense.  I will report back on my findings.

Great idea.  I appreciate your help.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline RobNJ

  • Posts: 157
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2017, 11:16 PM »
Not to completely hijack your thread - but has anyone bought a Byrd head lately? I've had one in order for about two months and can't seem to fine anywhere you can actually buy one!!

Offline patriot

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    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2017, 11:21 PM »
Not to completely hijack your thread - but has anyone bought a Byrd head lately? I've had one in order for about two months and can't seem to fine anywhere you can actually buy one!!

I just added one for the DW735 tothis cart (as a test) and did not see any indication that it was not in stock.  This is not proof positive, so who knows?

If you don't mind my asking, who did you order yours  from?

Thanks.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline RobNJ

  • Posts: 157
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2017, 11:25 PM »
Not to completely hijack your thread - but has anyone bought a Byrd head lately? I've had one in order for about two months and can't seem to fine anywhere you can actually buy one!!

I just added one for the DW735 tothis cart (as a test) and did not see any indication that it was not in stock.  This is not proof positive, so who knows?

If you don't mind my asking, who did you order yours  from?

Thanks.

Sorry to be a downer but I ordered from Holbren as well. I actually called and they said they had them in stock but when I placed an order online i got an email saying it was backordered. I checked with a shelixheads.com and they warned that it was a multiple month backlog! I would call first to see what timeframe Holbren is quoting.

Offline patriot

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2017, 11:31 PM »
@RobNJ

I just found the Byrd store and guess what?



Bummer! [blink]
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline RobNJ

  • Posts: 157
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2017, 11:51 PM »
@RobNJ

I just found the Byrd store and guess what?

(Attachment Link)

Bummer! [blink]

Ugh. Well in the meantime I'm going to keep rotating the stock blades whenever they get dinged up. Amazing that the leadtime is that high. I would imagine it's their most popular product by 10x

Offline patriot

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2017, 11:54 PM »
@RobNJ

You're probably right. 

Good thing I didn't need it yesterday.  I'll keep flipping my knives just like you until they ship.  I'll send Byrd an email to hopefully determine when they'll start shipping.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Online grbmds

  • Posts: 2009
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2017, 11:59 PM »
@grbmds

Thanks for your very informative post.

I think I will try your suggestion and raise the infeed/outfeed ends of my melamine planer table and see how that goes.  Raising the stock as it is being fed in is not much of a problem, but lifting it up as it exits can be a chore especially if the stock is long and dense.  I will report back on my findings.

Great idea.  I appreciate your help.
@patriot You don't need much; maybe a 1/32" or less. Just raise the ends till you see a little bit of light where the wood enters and exits the planer.
Randy

Offline patriot

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2017, 12:06 AM »
@grbmds

Thanks for the info.  I may have some time tomorrow to do as you suggest.  I'll be a happy camper if this will solve my snipe problem.  To be clear, the 735 does not have near the snipe that my old 733 had.  Glad those days are over.

Off topic:  We just moved from Oak Park back to sunny New Mexico about three years ago.  Are you in Evanston or thereabouts?
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2017, 08:25 AM »

Does the Byrd installation manual state what the proper torque is for locking down the cutters?  Maybe I can find the installation PDF and take a look at it.

I'm beginning to think that the Byrd cutter is the best way to go, but I'm still worried about the so-called scalloping due to the small cutters.  Hopefully, I will find a close-up photo of this in the near future.

I appreciate your feedback.

I believe the torque value for the insert screw is 45-55 in-lb (5.0-6.2 nm).

As to the "scalloping" in my experience you will only notice this on the 1st grit of sanding as the material being removed on the "high" spots gathers in the "low" spots - it is not apparent or visible when holding a board up to view the surface in a direct light source without magnification.  It quickly melts away in a few passes of 100-120 grit ROS sanding.  I seriously doubt there is even 0.001" (0.025mm) of profile so unless your practice is to go directly to applying finish from the planer without sanding or scraping it is a non-issue.

Offline patriot

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2017, 09:18 AM »
@kevinculle

Thanks for the info.

The scalloping sounds minimal at best assuming a well tuned cutter head.  From what I have determined Byrd cutter heads are now out of stock.  I sent them an email last night requesting info on availability.  Will post that info when and if I hear back from them.

I appreciate your post.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1257
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2017, 09:38 AM »
@patriot you might want to check with Holbren and see if they have stock.

https://www.holbren.com/Byrd_Tool_B4725

Ron

Offline patriot

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2017, 10:42 AM »
@patriot you might want to check with Holbren and see if they have stock.

https://www.holbren.com/Byrd_Tool_B4725

Ron

Thanks Ron!  I just sent them an email on this.  Will report back when I hear from them.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline patriot

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2017, 11:11 AM »
@rvieceli

I just heard back from Holbren:  They have no stock and have been promised by Byrd to take delivery of these heads in about three months.  Byrd Tool told them that delivery for new orders is about FIVE months.

Being the cautious (suspicious?) fellow that I am, I am wondering if Byrd has decided to outsource (China?) this product, which, in my mind anyway, would explain the very long delivery delay.

I hope I'm wrong on this.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2017, 12:05 PM »
On Byrd's website, under the home of the Shelix, is this statement:

Byrd Tool has served the woodworking industry since 1979. We proudly manufacture our products in the USA right here in Central Kentucky.

Also on the Byrd website, they state that there is a minimum of a 3 month lead time for Dewalt 735 Shelix head sets.

Offline patriot

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2017, 12:22 PM »
@Cheese

I just received an email from Brian Holbren and he made it clear that that Byrd has not outsourced the DW735 cutter head.  He also said that this product has been their - " ... #1 seller ever since it came out, demand is just very high and they are very busy."

What a concept:  An American company that cannot keep up with demand for their good product.  I will always go out of my way to buy American when I can. 

That said, I just placed my order.  I will more than happy to wait 3-5 months for my Byrd cutter head.  No problem.

Thanks for your post.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline montyss

  • Posts: 38
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2017, 09:24 AM »
You will Love that head in your planer  and Brian is Great guy too deal with .
Clean the head where the cutters rest then torque them down to the correct # . A cheapee Harbor freight 1/4" torque wrench will work .

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2017, 10:41 AM »
You will Love that head in your planer  and Brian is Great guy too deal with .
Clean the head where the cutters rest then torque them down to the correct # . A cheapee Harbor freight 1/4" torque wrench will work .

Thanks for the info. 

As for Brian I'll say this:  He was very quick to respond when I emailed him and was up front with the delivery delay info, so I would have to agree with you.  My order is now in.

I've had a Craftsman torque wrench for years, so I'm good to go.  Now I just have to wait five months to use it. [eek]
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1986
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2017, 11:06 AM »
Did you have to pay the money now or when it ships?
+1

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2017, 11:11 AM »
Did you have to pay the money now or when it ships?

Brians exact words were (from his email to me):

"If you were willing to wait, place the order over the phone.  That way we will not charge your credit card until it ships.

Thanks
Brian
Holbren"

Since it takes so long to be delivered I will probably forget and wonder what the heck my UPS guy just delivered. [scratch chin]

Hope this helps.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1986
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2017, 11:25 AM »
Thanks. I'm probably going to get one of these myself, timely thread.
+1

Offline RobNJ

  • Posts: 157
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2017, 04:32 PM »
Did you have to pay the money now or when it ships?

Brians exact words were (from his email to me):

"If you were willing to wait, place the order over the phone.  That way we will not charge your credit card until it ships.

Thanks
Brian
Holbren"

Since it takes so long to be delivered I will probably forget and wonder what the heck my UPS guy just delivered. [scratch chin]

Hope this helps.

haha!  I feel the same way.  Hopefully when i get mine I'll actually have some time to install it! I've watched the installation videos enough by now, I'll be able to do it in my sleep!

Good luck! I'll let you know when mine gets delivered to see if they are shipping them out in batches or they'll get them all at once.

Offline patriot

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2017, 10:57 PM »
I just got one of those fancy new calculators ... click, click, click, click, ...

And if I buy a Byrd cutter for my DJ-20 and another one for my DW735 that's rounds out nicely to $1K + s/h.

And ... the price of a new Hammer A3-31 with one of them fancy 'Silent Power' spiral cutter heads is $4K + s/h.

So, ... what I've been thinking is the A3-31 will replace two large machines in my work shop, so what I've been thinking ...

Anybody wanna guess what I've been thinking? [popcorn] 
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 835
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2017, 11:13 PM »
I just got one of those fancy new calculators ... click, click, click, click, ...

And if I buy a Byrd cutter for my DJ-20 and another one for my DW735 that's rounds out nicely to $1K + s/h.

And ... the price of a new Hammer A3-31 with one of them fancy 'Silent Power' spiral cutter heads is $4K + s/h.

So, ... what I've been thinking is the A3-31 will replace two large machines in my work shop, so what I've been thinking ...

Anybody wanna guess what I've been thinking? [popcorn]

That the A3-31 will probably get here from Europe faster than you'll get your hands on a Byrd Shelix for your DW?

And not to screw up your math or anything, but for apples to apples on planer width, maybe consider the A3-41?
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline patriot

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2017, 10:24 AM »
@live4ever

Thanks for your post.

My DJ-20 has an 8-inch planing width and if I'm reading the stats correctly, the A3-31 has a 12-inch planing width giving me an additional 4-inch of cutter.  Some of the rough lumber I use is over 12-inches in width and the A3-41 would be perfect for that, but I think I can live without that convenience.

I have found a used used A3-31 for $2K, but I never buy used unless I can actually see and test the tool first.  Too bad this machine was not in Dallas because I would be tempted to drive down and take a look at it.  Anyway, looking at the exposed prices you'll see that the A3-31 is cheaper than the A3-26 which tells me that the A3-31 must either be a much older machine than the A3-26 or it is damaged in some way.  If it was covered with a New Warranty that would be another story.

Oh, well. [unsure]



'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1986
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2017, 10:45 AM »
So when are you expecting Hammer delivery?
+1

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2017, 11:29 AM »
So when are you expecting Hammer delivery?

If you're asking about the A3-31, I haven't decided on that purchase yet.  If you're asking about the K3, it has been promised by the end of this month but I'm not holding my breath.

Going off topic if I may:  I may not like the fact that I would be forced to feed in long and potentially heavy stock onto a planer bed that is probably at my knee height or slightly above.  Yes, I could make infeed/outfeed extentions to alleviate that which would probably make that task much easier.  But the truth to the matter is that I have zero experience at this, so my concerns on this may not even be in the ball park.  I do recall reading some commentary somewhere that some user thought the Hammer A3-31 extentions were not worth the extra expense.  Again, that is one persons opinion.

I really wish I could see one of these machine in person.  Perhaps I should give my Felder rep a call on this. There may be one close by.

Thanks!
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Online grbmds

  • Posts: 2009
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2017, 12:30 PM »
@patriot Concerning the Byrd head for your Dewalt 735 . . .

What is the age of your 735? If it's 5+ years old and has had heavy use, do you know what the expected life of the motor and other major components is? At this point, that is a prime concern of mine. Since my planer is more than 5 years old, does it pay to spend the money on the head upgrade at this point? While my planer hasn't had heavy use and I tend to plane 1/32" per pass or less, I have no idea how long it is projected to last. I've never seen any reported problems with its longevity, but anything can happen.
Randy

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2017, 12:50 PM »
My DW735 is 11 years old, has had what I would call moderate use in a hobby environment, and still runs like a top.  When you replace the head new bearings are included and that is likely the 1st item on a 735 that would need servicing.

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2017, 01:49 PM »
@grbmds

Thanks for your post.  Excellent questions!

I put my 735 into service on 20 Jan 2012.  It is currently running on the first edge of its fifth set of knives.

While this may tell you that it has just slightly over five years of use, that says nothing of how many board-feet of stock have been passed through its knives.  After we moved back to New Mexico from Chicago it sat idle for probably 6-months or so while my new shop was built and we settled in.  Six-months is just a guess because I really am not certain.

I will say that it is not used every day, but there have been days that it has run so long that the noise nearly gives me a headache regardless of my (-25dB) hearing protection.  My dog leaves the shop immediately when the 735 and my Jet vac start up.  The next time this happens I will use both foam inserts and my muffs to keep the noise level at a the lowest level possible

That said, like you I tend to take thin slices off of my boards but my slices are about a quarter-turn of the wheel whatever depth that may be.  If I am trimming the edge of a board I may take a half-turn slice, but that's max.

I have no idea what the life span of these machines may be, but I ran a lot of stock through my old 733 and it never let me down. But, when I consider the cost of a new Byrd head and the fact that this machine could quit on me anytime that gives me pause to reconsider the purchase of the pricey Byrd cutter head and go for the A3-31.

If I sell my 735 while it is still in good working order and purchase a Hammer A3-31 that would give me some peace of mind with respect to the new tools longevity.  But everything is relative.

Now, if I just had a crystal ball ...  [big grin]
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2017, 01:52 PM »
My DW735 is 11 years old, has had what I would call moderate use in a hobby environment, and still runs like a top.  When you replace the head new bearings are included and that is likely the 1st item on a 735 that would need servicing.

If I do purchase the Byrd cutter head I will definitely have new bearings installed.  But, due to the extremely high demand for this cutter head and the very lon-nng delivery date, I may not live long enough to actually get one. [wink]
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2017, 09:26 AM »
Gents,

I happened to have the Byrd head for DW735 popup in an amazon add today, clicked on it and it shows as in stock at $529 with bearings (about $90 more than I paid two years ago on amazon) - I was skeptical so put it in cart and went to checkout and it confirms free Prime shipping arriving Saturday.  Go get 'em!

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2017, 10:12 AM »
@kevinculle

Thanks for your post.

These cutter-heads do seem to be in stock, but nowhere could I verify that they came with bearings installed.  I did, however, take a look at the Customer Questions section and someone did verify that the cutter came with bearings installed.  It would be nice if this was stated in the item description.

Thanks!
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2017, 11:06 AM »
I can confirm that this is the same amazon stock number I bought and bearings were included and installed on the cutterhead.

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2017, 11:36 AM »
I can confirm that this is the same amazon stock number I bought and bearings were included and installed on the cutterhead.

Thanks for the verification.  Decisions, decisions, ...  [scratch chin]
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline thudchkr

  • Posts: 169
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2017, 03:58 PM »
I had the DW735 and I upgraded it with the Byrd head.  I got all those benefits that every one mentions, but I felt that the planer was underpowered after the upgrade.  I had to take extremely shallow cuts when working in hard maple or the planer motor overload would trip.  I ended up purchasing the A3-31 with the Silent Power head and have no issues since with being under powered.  Finish seems about the same between the two and I've never noticed any issues with the lower level of the planer bed.  (I am 6'5" so I do end up bending over when using it.) I've since planed, (and jointed), lots of hard maple and even more Jatoba, which is a good bit harder than the maple, and am more than pleased with my purchase.

After using the Silent Power head equipped A3-31, there is no way I would go back to the DW735, Byrd head or not.

Good luck with whichever decision you end up making.

Clint
Clint

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2017, 05:06 PM »
@thudchkr

Thanks for your post.

Funny, but just this morning I found posts on the net noting that their 735 were tripping their breakers.  IMHO, that's relative to whether they have 16A or 20A breakers in the circuit in question.  Regardless, there is a lot of chat about this occurring with the 735 and the Byrd cutter-heads.

With all due respect - you did what I am trying to avoid: You upgraded your 735 with the byrd cutter then purchased the A3-31.  I'm sitting on the fence contemplating all of these choices.

My 735 has served me extremly well.  I have zero complaints with the way it performs using the standard HSS knives.  My DJ-20 has also served me well, but it has a bowed fence that I have to check daily which is not that big of a deal, but changing knives IS another story. 

I have dissasembled/assembled my DJ-20 twice which by some counts makes me an expert of sorts with this machine, but changing knives is not something I look forward to doing.  And, if the truth be known, changing knives does not happen as often as it should even with carbide cutters.  They need changing now, but since I'm parked on the fence that has not happened.

That said, replacing both my 735 and the DJ-20 with a single (space saving) combination jointer/planer makes perfect sense in a small 20'x24' work shop (glorified garage, really).  I'm not fond of the short jointer beds of the A3-31, but I know Hammer offers table entensions.

I have a K3 on the way (this will be a space hog I think) and I need to purchase a large bandsaw (the minimax mm16 is my choice).  Adding the A3-31 would be the perfect companion to these power tools.  The mm16 is a priority because I have a large collection of logs that need to be quarter-sawn and stored away from the weather. So, in a manner of speaking, the mm16 and the A3-31 are both high priority

Once the K3 is assembled and running I will probably take the plunge and order both.

I appreciate your comments.

'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1739
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2017, 07:57 PM »
@Cheese

I just received an email from Brian Holbren and he made it clear that that Byrd has not outsourced the DW735 cutter head.  He also said that this product has been their - " ... #1 seller ever since it came out, demand is just very high and they are very busy."

What a concept:  An American company that cannot keep up with demand for their good product.  I will always go out of my way to buy American when I can. 

That said, I just placed my order.  I will more than happy to wait 3-5 months for my Byrd cutter head.  No problem.

Thanks for your post.

I'm thinking I should do this also. Get my order in as this Fall I have about 100 bf
of cherry I need for a project that will need to be planed to required thickness.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2017, 10:23 PM »
@Bob D.

I think these cutter-heads are currently available on Amazon.  You can check this out here if you like.

Now you don't have to wait. [big grin]
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 10:27 PM by patriot »
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1739
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2017, 10:31 PM »
@Bob D

I think these cutter-heads are currently available on Amazon.  You can check this out here if you like.

Now you don't have to wait. [big grin]

Thanks, but purchased from whomever it better be a serious upgrade over stock performance at that price.

When I bought my DW735 over 8 years ago the whole machine cost (plus the in/outfeed tables and stand) as much as the Byrd Shelix Cutterhead. $500 is about 12 or 13 sets of blades. I've been hoarding them every time they go on sale at any place I frequent, usually Lowes will knock off 10% every once in a while. I have 4 extra sets now but I would still consider the Shelix cutterhead. Maybe after I burn through my current stock of blades they'll be caught up and the wait time will be reasonable.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1739
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2017, 07:43 AM »
I was just reading about the Shelix cutterhead on Byrds' website, and I see that the head is available in two diameters.

Which one have any of you bought and installed and would you get the smaller or stay with the original diameter if you could go back and do it again.

If you have installed the smaller diameter head, have you noticed any shortcomings associated with it? Any affect on cut quality or machine capacity or power as compared to the original diameter Shelix head or the original DeWalt cutter head?

Here's the notice on the Byrd page for the DW735 cutterhead:

IMPORTANT: When installing the SHELIX head, the head has to go through a small hole in the machine housing and it will not fit through with the knives installed. For the same reason, you will also have to remove the straight blades first before you can remove the original cutter head. Byrd’s default SHELIX head is 1/8” smaller in diameter to enable you to install the SHELIX head without having to remove all 40 knives. The disadvantage is that this will reduce the cutting ability by 1/16”. As this machine by default can only remove 1/8” per pass, equipped with this SHELIX head, you will only be able to remove about 1/16” per pass. Due to the fact that spiral heads require more horse power, you cannot remove more than 1/16” anyways when cutting wider stock. Byrd does offer this head also with the original diameter. As explained above, you will have to remove all 40 knives from the SHELIX head and re-install them once the head is in the machine. When you place your order, please select the version of your preference above.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2017, 08:13 AM »
I have the smaller one and the only major disadvantage I see is that the stop knob on the DW735 (left of the infeed in 1/4" increments) is now out of calibration by the amount the head radius is smaller.  If this was a concern one could go with the larger option...installing the cutters after the head is in would be a bit of a pain but I suppose worth it if this detail is important to you.

Offline tdwilli1

  • Posts: 51
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #55 on: April 21, 2017, 10:32 AM »
The stop is adjustable at least on mine!, just loosen the nut, move the screw to the correct height and tighten it back up. You have to be careful when tightening it up, it tends to move the screw as you're tightening the nut.

I have the smaller one and the only major disadvantage I see is that the stop knob on the DW735 (left of the infeed in 1/4" increments) is now out of calibration by the amount the head radius is smaller.  If this was a concern one could go with the larger option...installing the cutters after the head is in would be a bit of a pain but I suppose worth it if this detail is important to you.

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2017, 11:20 AM »
@Bob D.

I really appreciate the revealation of the Byrd 'fine print'.  While this knowledge is important, I think the more revealing information is their statement that "... spiral heads require more horse power, ...".   This, IMHO, is undoubtedly the reason that a lot of 735/Byrd cutter-head users are tripping their breakers.  This makes perfect sense.

It is my habit to only remove 1/4-turn of stock in one pass, sometimes 1/2-turn if I'm trimming the edge of the stock.  However, as we all know, the wider the board and the denser the stock the more the motor is strained.  Add to this the fact that the Byrd cutter-head further strains the motor due to its inherent design, then the user must pay particular attention to making sure he/she takes very thin slices. 

While all of this is manageable, I would not be happy to discover that my workflow - assuming I had the Byrd cutter-head installed in my 735 - would be impacted by this restraint.  If I could continue to remove stock as I normally do without tripping the breaker then that would be fine.  However, the only way to ascertain this would be to purchase the Byrd cutter-head and see how it behaves. 
This seems to be a risky undertaking.

I just took a look at the required amperage on my 735 and it is 15A.  So users running their 735's on 16A breakers would IMHO be the most susceptible to tripping their breakers if they have the Byrd cutter-head installed.  I would also think that they could easily trip their 16A breakers even without having the Byrd cutter installed.  All of my breakers are 20A so I have no way to verify that.



If someone who is running the Byrd cutter in their 735 could measure their amperage usage that would be valuable information to have.  I wonder if Byrd has this info on hand?  I may send them an email and see what they say.

Back on topic: The cost of the Byrd cutter-head is a heck of a lot less than the price of the A3-31.  If the amperage issue can be resolved this may be the way to go.

Thanks!
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1739
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2017, 11:28 AM »
I wonder if there is a difference in the amp draw between the two models(diameters). The difference may not be enough to be significant. I run mine on a 20A circuit also, and its the only machine running on that circuit when I use it.

However I have in the winter when the shop is cold popped that breaker once or twice in the past. It has happened when I have not used the planer for a few days and haven't been in the shop so no heat running. Being a converted portion of my garage it is insulated but there is minimal heat, so when the temps dip below 32 outside it can get down into the upper 30s in the shop after 24 hours without the heat being on. It's then when the planer will pop the breaker when I first start it up even before feeding any wood into the machine. I reset it and it doesn't happen again until the shop gets cold again.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #58 on: April 21, 2017, 11:43 AM »
@Bob D.

If you had a line splitter you could learn how many amps your machine is pulling.  Here is a which may help.

Your 20A circuit should not be tripping the breaker, if as you noted, it is the only appliance/tool being run on that circuit.  However, because you mentioned the ambient temp being in the low 30s when this happens, I wonder if the 735 has inherent friction affected by the cold temp which dissipates when the machine has been run?

Just a guess on my part.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3741
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2017, 11:59 AM »
@Cheese

I hear you on the 735 snipe.  I built an 8-foot bed that ran through my 733 and had to make it wider when I got my 735.  My 'method' for combatting the snipe is to (1) raise the stock as I feed it into the cutters and (2) do the same as it exits the cutters. However, what I have found that works in addition to the above process is to take miniscule cuts when I am nearing my final dimension.  By miniscule I mean lowering the head less than 1/4 turn of the wheel.  This works for me.  The lighting in my shop is such that I can actually see - and feel - the snipe which is a good thing.

As to the long bed, I once leveled it perfectly and just knew that was the key to ridding myself of snipe.  Wrong!  That may have actually made it worse.  I think I built this bed over ten years ago and I do not think I could ever work without it.  I will say that I make certain that the melamine bed lays perfectly flat against the 735's built-in infeed/outfeed tables.  I use a feeler gauge for this as shown below.  IMHO, the ends of the bed do not have to be perfectly level because as I noted above, I raise the stock as it enters and leaves the machine which voids any benefit a perfectly level bed would provide.  This is just my experience with this planer bed.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I only just ran onto the thread.  I use the same methods you use with my 734.  The old model 734 was two blade an was satisfactory until in the middle of a project the drive belt broke.  Because I was expecting to deliver the table within a couple of days, it was quicker to replace the entire machine.  The new 734 has three blades and does leave a mirror finish and far less prone to snipe.

I used a flatpiece of melamine as you show in your post.  The problem with that was that eventually, the interior compressed.  I went back to using the method you describe to prevent (cut down on snipe).
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2017, 04:46 PM »
I measured the amperage draw of my 735 before and after the cutterhead change and the Byrd heade was indeed drawing about 7% more amperage than stock.

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Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1739
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2017, 05:16 PM »
@Bob D.

If you had a line splitter you could learn how many amps your machine is pulling.  Here is a which may help.

Your 20A circuit should not be tripping the breaker, if as you noted, it is the only appliance/tool being run on that circuit.  However, because you mentioned the ambient temp being in the low 30s when this happens, I wonder if the 735 has inherent friction affected by the cold temp which dissipates when the machine has been run?

Just a guess on my part.

Yes, added friction from some stiff lubricant somewhere was my thought too, maybe the bearings as it never did this until 2 winters ago, and as I said my machine is about 10 years old IIRC.

I have a splitter and know how to measure the current, just haven't bothered.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2017, 07:54 AM »
The stop is adjustable at least on mine!, just loosen the nut, move the screw to the correct height and tighten it back up. You have to be careful when tightening it up, it tends to move the screw as you're tightening the nut.


Thanks for that tip tdwill1!

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2017, 07:59 AM »
I think part of the increased current draw from the Byrd head is due to the geometry of the cutters...because the cutting edge is skewed to the toolpath and overlapped between rows there is more contact area between cutters and wood than a straight blade head.  The work done to remove wood is the same but the increased frictional area takes more power to drive.

Offline jdw101

  • Posts: 68
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2017, 12:44 PM »
I have this planer and the cutterhead but I haven't installed it yet.  The planer came with an extra set of knives and I try and do most of my stock prep by hand until I have mastered it. 

The reason I am posting is I wanted to express how shockingly nice the face of the boards are when they come out of this planer with the steel knives.  I almost could not believe it.  I fed in some pretty nasty grained quilted maple and it came out like glass.  Granted, the first thing to touch the initial knives but it was amazing.

I ordered the Byrd Shelix and it took 6 months to get, ordered it 3 months before Christmas last year and got it about a month ago.  It's still in the box, I have to get through the first set of knives and then the extra set I got with the kit. 

One thing though, I am kind of wishing I had ordered the head that was a little larger around (The one where you have to screw in the cutters after it is installed) because it just seems like it would be nicer to have the extra cut.

I also felt I got a pretty nice deal on it, I bought the head and complete additional set of cutters for less than 600 USD.  At one point I remember the cutter costing near that alone.  Thanks for all the good info,  I also bought the digital gauge everyone is using.  Have to get the cutter on before I do that too!

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 164
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2017, 02:46 PM »
@jdw101

Thanks for your post.

Best of luck getting the cutter installed.  Please let us know about the install and the difference it makes to your workflow. 
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #66 on: February 25, 2018, 10:14 AM »
I think part of the increased current draw from the Byrd head is due to the geometry of the cutters...because the cutting edge is skewed to the toolpath and overlapped between rows there is more contact area between cutters and wood than a straight blade head.  The work done to remove wood is the same but the increased frictional area takes more power to drive.

Because the cutting inserts are skewed with the Byrd head, there is never a time when the cutters are not engaged in the wood being planed, whereas with the standard 3 blade setup, there is some relief every 120º of rotation.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2018, 11:52 AM »
A couple of weeks ago I installed the Byrd Shelix in my 735.  I ordered the smaller diameter version with new bearings installed and it took around 90 minutes for the install.
The only issue was the size of the snap ring pliers needed. Make sure you have a large enough pliers on hand. I'd suggest pulling off the side cover of the planer first and checking the pin diameter needed for the snap ring. Standard snap ring pliers have tips that are too small while the pliers I use for transmission center bearings is too large.  [sad]

In the photo below, the cutterhead shaft is the one in the middle. Look at it closely and you can see the black snap ring and the size of the tips that the snap ring pliers needs to have. Also, the snap ring is probably .090" thick so you need a lot of leverage to remove it.

My observations:
Wow, what a difference in noise level. [big grin] There was approximately a -10dB reduction in noise as measured with an app on my phone. That's a perceived noise level reduction of 50%.

I had previously planed some Ambrosia maple with the standard 3 blade setup and in some areas I was getting tear-out that was 1/16" deep. That's the reason I put this drawer front project on hold until I could order/receive/install the Byrd cutter head.

Incredible, I replaned the troubled tear-out areas on the Ambrosia and they are absolutely smooth. Almost like they had been run through a Timesaver. I'm way impressed...I should have purchased/installed the Byrd head 8 years ago!!!

This is a no-brainer improvement for the DW735.  [thumbs up] [thumbs up] [thumbs up]
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 09:47 AM by Cheese »

Offline jlt23

  • Posts: 13
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2018, 06:38 PM »
Do you guys recommend the smaller diameter or OEM Shelix head?

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1739
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2018, 10:08 PM »
Glad to hear the conversion went well and of the noise reduction.

I bought the head a while back but haven't installed it yet. I need to get around to doing that though as I have a project I want to start which I will need to plane some cherry.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Cutter Head
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2018, 10:21 AM »
One more observation after I ran a bunch of the Ambrosia through the planer.  With the Shelix, there is a slight ripple across the surface of the board. It can be felt and it can be seen but it is quickly removed with just a swipe of the ETS EC 125/150 and 180 grit Granat.

The ripple is consistent and runs in the .001" to .0015" range. Not a big deal and I'd still rather have the Shelix head rather than the standard 3-blade setup.  The ripple is probably just the result of the design of any helical cutter head.

I'd be interested in hearing if others have experienced the ripple effect with other brands of helical cutter heads.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 01:05 PM by Cheese »

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #71 on: February 27, 2018, 05:25 PM »
 @Cheese Any idea what the actual size is on the snap ring pin? 

Seth

Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #72 on: February 27, 2018, 05:51 PM »
Sorry Seth, I never measured it. I do know that’s it’s larger than .070” though because that size tip was too small. It’s probably close to .100” or maybe a little more.   [tongue]

Offline ear3

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Cutter Head
« Reply #73 on: February 27, 2018, 07:50 PM »
The individual blades on the Shelix are slightly convex, which is what I assume causes the ripple.  I get the same effect on mine, but as you said, easily removed.  You definitely win the OCD award though @Cheese for actually measuring it!

I also still get snipe on my planer, though not a function of the Shelix.  I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the differential pressure applied by the front vs. the back roller, as I can definitely feel the board pop slightly when the front roller engages it, and the moment of engagement always marks the point of the board where you see the level change from the snipe. 

Anyone every mucked around with adjusting the roller pressure on the 735?

One more observation after I ran a bunch of the Ambrosia through the planer.  With the Shelix, there is a slight ripple across the surface of the board. It can be felt and it can be seen but it is quickly removed with just a swipe of the ETS EC 125/150 and 180 grit Granat.

The ripple is consistent and runs in the .001" to .0015" range. Not a big deal and I'd still rather have the Shelix head rather than the standard 3-blade setup.  The ripple is probably just the result of the design of any helical cutter head.

I'd be interested in hearing if others have experienced the ripple effect with other brands of helical cutter heads.
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Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Cutter Head
« Reply #74 on: February 27, 2018, 10:20 PM »
You definitely win the OCD award though @Cheese for actually measuring it!

I also still get snipe on my planer, though not a function of the Shelix.  I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the differential pressure applied by the front vs. the back roller, as I can definitely feel the board pop slightly when the front roller engages it, and the moment of engagement always marks the point of the board where you see the level change from the snipe. 

Anyone every mucked around with adjusting the roller pressure on the 735?
Well thanks for the award Edward...it’s the perfect solution for an engineers conundrum. To measure or to not measure...aye, there’s the rub.  [smile]

As far as snipe goes, I’m still working on that issue. There has to be a way to mitigate this issue short of just throwing $$$$$ at it.

Offline StanB

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #75 on: February 27, 2018, 11:24 PM »
@Cheese @ear3 do you think this has to do with the undersized head and increased downforce of the rollers since the “zero” plane has shifted? I.e. you have to make up the .006” radius difference.

I am trying to evaluate this before I buy.
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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2018, 11:28 PM »
Sorry Seth, I never measured it. I do know that’s it’s larger than .070” though because that size tip was too small. It’s probably close to .100” or maybe a little more.   [tongue]


Well come on man, pop that thing open again and measure it! I need to buy some pliers. 

On second thought I will just get every size.  [scratch chin]  Yup, that's a better plan.  [big grin]


Seth

Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #77 on: February 28, 2018, 12:11 AM »
@Cheese @ear3 do you think this has to do with the undersized head and increased downforce of the rollers since the “zero” plane has shifted? I.e. you have to make up the .006” radius difference.

I am trying to evaluate this before I buy.

You’ve got a good point, but I think it actually snipes less than the original 3 blade version. The snipe is in the .002”-.008” range. It’s not consistent which really drives me crazy.  Before the Shelix conversion it would snipe in the .015” range all day long. It got so bad that I’d just go to a local wood vendor and pay to have him run the boards through his timesaver.

Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2018, 12:13 AM »
Well come on man, pop that thing open again and measure it! I need to buy some pliers. 

Always a comedian in the house... [poke]
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 12:18 AM by Cheese »

Offline Rob Z

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2018, 12:22 AM »
Cheese, you mentioned a 10db reduction in sound with the Shelix cutter. I think that is what was advertised for the  " silent power " upgrade on my Hammer A3-31.  Wow, what a difference it makes. [eek]

I don't recall what the upcharge was, but it was well worth it.

Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #80 on: February 28, 2018, 12:58 AM »
Cheese, you mentioned a 10db reduction in sound with the Shelix cutter. I think that is what was advertised for the  " silent power " upgrade on my Hammer A3-31.  Wow, what a difference it makes. [eek]

I don't recall what the upcharge was, but it was well worth it.
Hey Rob I’m with you...
You can jack your jaw all day long about how quiet the helical cutter head is but once you fire it up and hear it... it’s in one word...UNBELIEVABLE. I think it’s all a function of the design of the helical cutter head.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #81 on: February 28, 2018, 06:57 AM »
The valley of snipe, how far from the end of the board on that machine?

Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2018, 08:44 AM »
The valley of snipe, how far from the end of the board on that machine?

It’s always 2.5” from either end.

Offline Rob Z

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #83 on: February 28, 2018, 09:12 AM »
Cheese, it's so "quiet " that I can even run material through it without HP.  I don't do it, of course, but it really is that "unloud".  Is that a word?  [blink] LOL

My goal is to get my current equipment sold so I can buy a Hammer combination machine  for my new, much smaller shop space.  One thing that must be spec'd on the new equipment is the silent power.  I'll do without the mobility kit, the dado unit, etc etc before I'll skip the upgrade to silent power.

Offline StanB

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #84 on: February 28, 2018, 12:15 PM »
@Cheese @ear3 do you think this has to do with the undersized head and increased downforce of the rollers since the “zero” plane has shifted? I.e. you have to make up the .006” radius difference.

I am trying to evaluate this before I buy.

You’ve got a good point, but I think it actually snipes less than the original 3 blade version. The snipe is in the .002”-.008” range. It’s not consistent which really drives me crazy.  Before the Shelix conversion it would snipe in the .015” range all day long. It got so bad that I’d just go to a local wood vendor and pay to have him run the boards through his timesaver.

Interesting. I agree with the inconsistency in snipe, but mine is no where near .015" mine is usually small enough to sand out. I just have the metal outfeed tables. My issues are with the feed rollers slipping every once and a while.
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Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2018, 01:48 PM »
Interesting. I agree with the inconsistency in snipe, but mine is no where near .015" mine is usually small enough to sand out. I just have the metal outfeed tables. My issues are with the feed rollers slipping every once and a while.

I also have feed roller issues from time to time.  [mad]

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #86 on: February 28, 2018, 05:29 PM »
You may already do this, but the rollers perform much better and more consistently if cleaned periodically(especially when they start to slip). I clean mine with denatured alcohol but mineral spirits work. Over time deposits from the wood build up on the rollers and this can cause them to slip. As I said, this may be something you already do.
Randy

Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #87 on: February 28, 2018, 08:44 PM »
You may already do this, but the rollers perform much better and more consistently if cleaned periodically(especially when they start to slip). I clean mine with denatured alcohol but mineral spirits work. Over time deposits from the wood build up on the rollers and this can cause them to slip. As I said, this may be something you already do.

Thanks for the info  🙏  I'll try some alcohol on the rollers tomorrow. [big grin]

Offline ear3

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #88 on: March 01, 2018, 04:51 PM »
Huh, I didn't think of that, but perhaps that's a contributing factor?  The weird thing is that there are still times when I run a board through and get NO snipe (this tends to be softwood, however).  I initially thought it might just be a function of the in/outfeed tables, but then i notice it happening on small pieces where those tables didn't come into play.

The snipe is never that bad.  I leave excess where possible that I waste off when I trim to length, but I have left the boards as is as well, and when doing things like dominoing the ends I just have to plan for a bit more sanding.



@Cheese @ear3 do you think this has to do with the undersized head and increased downforce of the rollers since the “zero” plane has shifted? I.e. you have to make up the .006” radius difference.

I am trying to evaluate this before I buy.
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Offline dlu

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #89 on: November 08, 2018, 11:43 PM »
Does the Byrd head reduce "idle" noise, or only cutting noise. I'm quite impressed by how noisy the machine is just running before it starts to cut.

Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #90 on: November 09, 2018, 01:11 AM »
Yes...the stock Dewalt just screams at you. Hard to describe but it’s just a nasty, edgy, sound.

It’s very loud while also emanating a high pitched nasty scream...the Shelix is a welcome change.

As an aside, I’ve never worn hearing protection when shooting guns or operating machine tools. That’s probably the reason I’m half deaf.  [eek]  Well, that was just part of living life 50-60 years ago. So consequently, nothing has really been a motivating force for me to use hearing protection because I’m just used to loud equipment (think fuel dragsters) until I purchased the DW 735. That forced me to purchase muffs because it was actually painful to listen to.

So bottom line is...purchase the Shelix for better machine performance and purchase the Shelix for reduced machine noise.

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Offline dlu

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #91 on: November 09, 2018, 01:39 AM »
Yes...the stock Dewalt just screams at you. Hard to describe but it’s just a nasty, edgy, sound.

It’s very loud while also emanating a high pitched nasty scream...the Shelix is a welcome change.

As an aside, I’ve never worn hearing protection when shooting guns or operating machine tools. That’s probably the reason I’m half deaf.  [eek]  Well, that was just part of living life 50-60 years ago. So consequently, nothing has really been a motivating force for me to use hearing protection because I’m just used to loud equipment (think fuel dragsters) until I purchased the DW 735. That forced me to purchase muffs because it was actually painful to listen to.

So bottom line is...purchase the Shelix for better machine performance and purchase the Shelix for reduced machine noise.

Wow! That's a compelling argument, I haven't running any wood through it yet (no dust collection yet) but I did switch it on – and right back off. It's an awful noise, hate it even with a pair of earmuffs on. Nothing at all like the sound of a big old Powermatic, really wish I had the space for one of those.

Thanks for sharing your experience and insights.

Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #92 on: November 09, 2018, 01:59 AM »
Wow! That's a compelling argument, I haven't running any wood through it yet (no dust collection yet) but I did switch it on – and right back off. It's an awful noise, hate it even with a pair of earmuffs on. Nothing at all like the sound of a big old Powermatic, really wish I had the space for one of those.

Ya it’s a noise that even permeates ear muffs. Hard to describe but very easy to hate. [smile]
Maybe it’s the harmonics that are generated by it that are annoying?  Think Powermatic, lots of steel & cast iron vs Dewalt and lots of plastic & sheet metal. Just glad I’ve put that annoyance behind me.  [big grin]

I’m actually looking forward to thicknessing some 10” wide walnut tomorrow with the Shelix.

Offline kevinculle

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #93 on: November 09, 2018, 06:53 AM »
A significant contributor to the DW735 noise signature is the integrated blower for chip exhaust, it howls like a shop vac.  So even when running at idle where there is no noise from cutting action it is fairly loud.  I have confirmed the noise reduction when I did the switch on my DeWalt...it averaged 12 dBA quieter while taking a 1/64" (0.4mm) cut from a 12" wide maple board.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 11:13 AM by kevinculle »

Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #94 on: November 09, 2018, 10:12 AM »
A significant contributor to the DW735 noise signature is the integrated blower for chip exhaust, it howls like a shop vac.  So even when running at idle where there is no noise from cutting action it is fairly loud.  I have confirmed the noise reduction when I did the switch on my DeWalt...it averaged dBA quieter while taking a 1/64" (0.4mm) cut from a 12" wide maple board.
The blower noise makes sense, never thought of that signature.  [smile]

Ya, I did the same measurement with an inexpensive dB app I have on my phone. There was an approximate 9-10 dB reduction in noise level after the Shelix conversion while planing lumber.  [big grin]

Offline dicktill

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #95 on: November 09, 2018, 11:27 AM »
A significant contributor to the DW735 noise signature is the integrated blower for chip exhaust, it howls like a shop vac.  So even when running at idle where there is no noise from cutting action it is fairly loud.   ....

I have my DW735 hooked up to a 5hp Clear Vue cyclone dust collection system, and that seems to make the internal blower redundant. So is it possible to disconnect the blower, or is it integral with the motor or planer shaft? Or is it still necessary?

Thanks, Dick

Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #96 on: November 09, 2018, 12:01 PM »
So is it possible to disconnect the blower, or is it integral with the motor or planer shaft? Or is it still necessary?

I just run my 735 into a Jet Vortex WITHOUT turning the Jet on. The Dewalt will inflate the Jet bag and deposits the chips inside. Try it once.  [smile]

Offline rvieceli

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #97 on: November 09, 2018, 12:11 PM »
Wear good quality hearing protection. Really!!! It makes a big difference and it is a BIG deal.

You will appreciate it later in life. The tinnitus is real.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #98 on: November 09, 2018, 04:40 PM »

I have my DW735 hooked up to a 5hp Clear Vue cyclone dust collection system, and that seems to make the internal blower redundant. So is it possible to disconnect the blower, or is it integral with the motor or planer shaft? Or is it still necessary?

Thanks, Dick

I think the blower drive may be a cogged belt that can be removed without affecting other planer functions...not positive but that's what I recall when I did the head swap.

Offline dicktill

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #99 on: November 09, 2018, 09:41 PM »

I have my DW735 hooked up to a 5hp Clear Vue cyclone dust collection system, and that seems to make the internal blower redundant. So is it possible to disconnect the blower, or is it integral with the motor or planer shaft? Or is it still necessary?

Thanks, Dick

I think the blower drive may be a cogged belt that can be removed without affecting other planer functions...not positive but that's what I recall when I did the head swap.

Thanks Kevin, I'll have to try that.

Offline TheSergeant

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #100 on: November 09, 2018, 09:42 PM »
The blower is mounted to the motor shaft.  One side of the fan cools the motor, the other side blows the chips.  Some guys simply remove the fan all together and see a sizable noise reduction.   I wouldn't do that though because it offers an access point for chips into the motor if you ever forget to turn on the dust collector. 

Instead what I did was purchase a replacement fan and had a machinist friend remove the blower side fins.  The motor is protected and cooled but the blower no longer functions.  You absolutely have to use dust collection though because it will clog without it.

I ended up selling my DW735 shortly after I had the fan made.  I used it on the machine maybe 2 weeks before I purchased a 1960's Powermatic 100 12" and sold the Dewalt.

If someone is interested in the fan I'll sell it for what I paid.  I take no responsibility for whatever happens to your machine by installing it though.  It is for sure a warranty voider.  That said, it worked very well for me.    $20+shipping (~$3-5). PM Me if you're interested. 




Online grbmds

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #101 on: November 10, 2018, 08:32 AM »
I have always believed that the reason my cyclone did such an efficient job of dust/chip collection with the 735 is the blower. I used the same cyclone with a Delta table top planer before I owned the 735 and the collection was not as good. Because of this, I don't believe the blower is redundant. Plus, why mess with a good thing. Just wear hearing protection. That's a great idea regardless of whether it would reduce the sound level or not.
Randy

Offline dlu

  • Posts: 190
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #102 on: November 10, 2018, 12:17 PM »
…Plus, why mess with a good thing. Just wear hearing protection. That's a great idea regardless of whether it would reduce the sound level or not.

A few reasons:

  • For the cat and dog - they like to hang out in the shop with me and I like their company. For some reason they don't leave when I turn the machines on. Don't ever try to put earmuffs on a cat. Trust me on that one.
  • For the neighbors, I hate their leaf blowers, don't imagine they will be to fond of my planer.
  • For me, even with earmuffs the noise is unpleasant.
[li]And, last but not least, because I'm a hacker by nature and I love figuring out how to make things better.
[/li][/list]

Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer with Byrd Shelix Head Cutter, Changing Inserts
« Reply #103 on: August 14, 2020, 10:32 AM »
About 18 months ago I installed a Shelix cutter in my DW735 planer. It was a pretty easy conversion and only took 90-120 minutes. The biggest issue is to partially disassemble the unit to make sure you have the proper snap ring pliers on hand.

Since that time I've planed fir, aromatic cedar, Ambrosia maple and more recently Birds-eye maple. Recently, I noticed quite a few small lines in the birds-eye.

The original plan was to locate the damaged inserts and then rotate them 1/4 turn. Upon opening up the planer it became obvious that it wouldn't be quite as simple as that.

Inserts with large or medium chips are easy to spot, however on some of the inserts the small chips can really only be felt by using your finger nail. And then there were the cracked inserts, difficult to see when looking inside the planer.

I decided to remove them all, clean up the seats, inserts, screws and reinstall all of them. It took about 60 minutes.

On this photo left to right:
Broken insert, cracked insert, large chip, medium chip & tiny chip.




Here's an enlargement of the tiny chip. The best way to locate these is to run your finger nail along the surface. I found about 8-9 of these once I removed and inspected everything.




Here are the cracked inserts. To locate these you need to run your fingernail on the top surface of the insert as each will have a slight offset that you will be able to feel.




Retorque to 40-45 inch/pounds. For a couple of inserts you can use a simple screwdriver torque wrench. If you're doing more than that, I'd suggest a typical long handled clicker type torque wrench.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2207
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #104 on: August 14, 2020, 10:57 AM »
Cheese, that's a lot of damaged inserts for even a serious hobby (I assume) use over 18 month. Poor carbide quality or over torquing?

Offline Cheese

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #105 on: August 14, 2020, 11:29 AM »
Cheese, that's a lot of damaged inserts for even a serious hobby (I assume) use over 18 month. Poor carbide quality or over torquing?

Svar, I think it could be a combination of both. I’m going to shoot Byrd an email with some photos.

I purchased the smaller diameter cutter assembly so I did no previous torqueing to the inserts. Maybe they weren’t properly seated when torqued?  Or just a brittle batch of inserts?

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1739
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #106 on: August 14, 2020, 11:58 AM »
You're making me think twice about installing my conversion cutterhead. I bought it a while back but decided I would use up the blades I had before making the changeover. SInce I have 3 spare sets of blades and they have two cutting edges each it may be a while, or never, before I change them out for the Shelix cutterhead.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline mike_aa

  • Posts: 1178
Re: DW735 Planer with Byrd Shelix Head Cutter, Changing Inserts
« Reply #107 on: August 14, 2020, 12:15 PM »

"Retorque to 40-45 inch/pounds. For a couple of inserts you can use a simple screwdriver torque wrench. If you're doing more than that, I'd suggest a typical long handled clicker type torque wrench."

Hi @Cheese  Thanks for the heads up on the inserts.  And sorry you had so much trouble with yours!

I was lucky to find a new shelix cutterhead (small diameter) at an auction for a great price.  I haven't installed it yet, but before I do, I was looking at getting a torque wrench to have on hand in case I needed it.  Based on your experience, it might be wise to recheck the cutters before I install it.  In another thread @ear3 recommended the Wera screwdriver type and that looks like a good choice, but I was wondering what other light duty torque wrenches would be good for occasional uses like this.  Are there any that are recommended?

Thanks, Mike A.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 570
Re: DW735 Planer with Byrd Shelix Head Cutter, Changing Inserts
« Reply #108 on: August 14, 2020, 12:44 PM »
About 18 months ago I installed a Shelix cutter in my DW735 planer. It was a pretty easy conversion and only took 90-120 minutes. The biggest issue is to partially disassemble the unit to make sure you have the proper snap ring pliers on hand.

Since that time I've planed fir, aromatic cedar, Ambrosia maple and more recently Birds-eye maple. Recently, I noticed quite a few small lines in the birds-eye.

The original plan was to locate the damaged inserts and then rotate them 1/4 turn. Upon opening up the planer it became obvious that it wouldn't be quite as simple as that.

Inserts with large or medium chips are easy to spot, however on some of the inserts the small chips can really only be felt by using your finger nail. And then there were the cracked inserts, difficult to see when looking inside the planer.

I decided to remove them all, clean up the seats, inserts, screws and reinstall all of them. It took about 60 minutes.

On this photo left to right:
Broken insert, cracked insert, large chip, medium chip & tiny chip.

(Attachment Link)


Here's an enlargement of the tiny chip. The best way to locate these is to run your finger nail along the surface. I found about 8-9 of these once I removed and inspected everything.

(Attachment Link)


Here are the cracked inserts. To locate these you need to run your fingernail on the top surface of the insert as each will have a slight offset that you will be able to feel.

(Attachment Link)


Retorque to 40-45 inch/pounds. For a couple of inserts you can use a simple screwdriver torque wrench. If you're doing more than that, I'd suggest a typical long handled clicker type torque wrench.

Years ago I did this mod. I put the head in tested it and the planer sat for two months before I need to use it. I took the dust cover off and saw debris under the cuter head. It was parts of the inserts! Ends up Byrd had a quality spill and some heads were defective. There were some holes not threaded deep enough.

These are very touchy inserts. When rotated you need to remove them and completely clean them and the seats on the head for debris. I also made sure the screws freely threaded into the holes and had to chase a few. Then when torquing make sure the inserts set flat against the stop and not tilted.


Online grbmds

  • Posts: 2009
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #109 on: August 14, 2020, 01:49 PM »
@patriot I have owned the 735 for at least 10 years (but have truly forgotten what year I bought it). I think the Byrd heads would be a great upgrade and have always believed that Dewalt should offer that as an option (but, for some reason, they don't value my opinion). I do own a Jet 8" joint with helical head and love it. On straight grain woods the surface isn't any better but on wood which isn't straight, it's much better. Then, of course, you don't have to remove, sharpen, and replace the knives. For me, that's the best.

I have not upgraded to the Shelix head on the 735 for several reasons (specific to me admittedly):

1. My planer is now over 10 years old. While it shows no signs of dying, who knows? If I had to buy new right now, I most likely would upgrade with installation of the shelix head.
2. I would most likely find a local shop to install the head for me as I'm not that mechanically inclined. I've watched the videos and, despite what some say, I personally wouldn't do it. I might be successful, but I might not be (again it's my comfort level). Of course, having the head installed ups the price considerably and, for a 10+ year old planer, it's just not worth it.
3. My experience with the 735 is different than most concerning the factory knives. I've always been able to find new blades at some sort of a discount somewhere, so they are then more affordable. I also found that taking larger bites with the blades gives them a shorter life. I have never believed that benchtop planers are designed to take more than 1/16" at a time. I mostly take less than that. I have found a jig (and there are plans online to make similar jigs) which allow me to hone the knives at least once which means I get at least 2 lives from each set; thus at least half the cost.
4. I'm not a professional cabinet maker, furniture maker, carpenter, remodeler, etc.; just do this as a hobby. Therefore, my use of the planer would be much different than someone who is a professional in these areas. If I were, I would probably think replacement of the steel knives a bigger issue.
5. I don't feel the noise level is a problem. That's what good hearing protection is for.
6. I'm also a firm believer that machines are designed to work best the way they come from the factory. There are definitely exceptions, but the 735, for me, works well as is.

So I'd say that, if you are a professional the upgrade is worth it. Or, if you feel you can justify and afford a jointer/planer with helical head, that is definitely a better option in my opinion. With that level machine you'd definitely be getting a much better machine with a lot of both jointer and planer capacity which is designed to work with the knives it comes with. If I could justify it, I'd go that route for sure.
Randy

Offline Don T

  • Posts: 1981
  • Phoenix, Az
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #110 on: August 14, 2020, 07:18 PM »
I also owned the 733, and the 735 is a huge step forward as far as the automatic cutter lock and the chip blower fan goes.

I'm very satisfied with the 735 except for the knives dulling rapidly and it also produces snipe on a more regular basis. [eek] I've tried adjusting the tables numerous times but the 735 is just susceptible to snipe.

I've also been wanting to convert my 735 to a Shelix head but keep going back and forth between carbide blades or Shelix. If I remember correctly, the carbide blades were almost 65% of the price of a Shelix and they still need to be sharpened every now & then.

If you do go carbide, I'd love to hear about your results. At this time I'm still sitting on the fence.  [popcorn]
Have you tried lifting the end of the wood up as you feed it into the planer?  This always worked for me, i would get very little snipe. You only need to do that until it is engaged in the outfeed roller then lift that edge until the wood exits the outfeed roller.
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Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1739
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #111 on: August 14, 2020, 07:42 PM »
"I'm very satisfied with the 735 except for the knives dulling rapidly and it also produces snipe on a more regular basis. [eek] I've tried adjusting the tables numerous times but the 735 is just susceptible to snipe."

Try feeding you stock in at an angle and not square to the blades. Eliminates 99.999% of snipe. Be mindful when feeding pieces <12 inches which the manual says not to do. It's even more critical when feeding at an angle.

Edit: Of course this is not an option on wider baords but it does work well on stock less than 10 inches wide. It's a work-around to the problem, not a solution or fix, but it will work.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 05:00 AM by Bob D. »
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer with Byrd Shelix Head Cutter, Changing Inserts
« Reply #112 on: August 14, 2020, 10:32 PM »
Hi @Cheese  Thanks for the heads up on the inserts. 
In another thread @ear3 recommended the Wera screwdriver type and that looks like a good choice, but I was wondering what other light duty torque wrenches would be good for occasional uses like this.  Are there any that are recommended?

Hi @mike_aa   [smile]  I will be contacting Byrd this weekend because I do think this may be a QA issue about carbide inserts being too brittle or becoming too crystaline over time.  I read the @Mike Goetzke report and he may be right, I don't know as aligning events with a time line that extends for several years is difficult. [smile] I'll report back on their response on this thread when I've received an answer.  [smile]

As far as torque wrenches go, I purchased this Wiha specifically for this purpose. However, after torquing in several of the inserts, this is a solution for fewer than 10 inserts. After that it becomes ridiculous. Think of it as a small handled screwdriver, there is just so much leverage you can apply to drive the screw home before you give up in disgust. There is a reason that Wiha rates this driver as 50 in/lb max...and we're torquing the inserts at 45 in/lb...The Hulk likely wouldn't be able to put more torque into this than 50 in/lb.  [big grin]

I'll post a photo tomorrow on my preferred method.




« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 10:36 PM by Cheese »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #113 on: August 14, 2020, 10:57 PM »
Have you tried lifting the end of the wood up as you feed it into the planer?  This always worked for me, i would get very little snipe. You only need to do that until it is engaged in the outfeed roller then lift that edge until the wood exits the outfeed roller.

Ya Don I've tried a number of things to reduce snipe, most successful in varying degrees was lifting the end of the piece, only removing .015" (1/64") per pass and arranging the boards so that I could feed the boards continually, end to end so that only the first board  and the last board through the router had snipe.

I'm sure industrial Powermatics and their like don't have these issues. Unfortunately I don't have the space and sometimes this beast needs to be moved outside. That'd prove impossible with a 500# Powermatic.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #114 on: August 15, 2020, 09:54 AM »
Cheese I have been using my DW735 with Byrd head for 5 1/2 years (just checked amazon for the date) and I have not had to replace or rotate a single insert.  In that time I have run a lot of stock including hard maple, white oak, walnut and quite a bit of ipe.  Your insert issues are quite atypical in my experience.  I did use a torque wrench to verify each insert (I bought the smaller head that comes preloaded) after I installed the head.  I also have a Byrd on my jointer that's a bit older and I think I have rotated 2 inserts and replaced one cracked insert.

Online grbmds

  • Posts: 2009
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #115 on: August 15, 2020, 10:07 AM »
Have you tried lifting the end of the wood up as you feed it into the planer?  This always worked for me, i would get very little snipe. You only need to do that until it is engaged in the outfeed roller then lift that edge until the wood exits the outfeed roller.

Ya Don I've tried a number of things to reduce snipe, most successful in varying degrees was lifting the end of the piece, only removing .015" (1/64") per pass and arranging the boards so that I could feed the boards continually, end to end so that only the first board  and the last board through the router had snipe.

I'm sure industrial Powermatics and their like don't have these issues. Unfortunately I don't have the space and sometimes this beast needs to be moved outside. That'd prove impossible with a 500# Powermatic.

I'm always interested in solutions for snipe but, for me, it only occurs sporadically. For the most part, I angle my infeed and outfeed tables at a slight angle so the outer edges are just slightly higher than the bed of the planer. I also put some upward pressure from underneath the board on the outfeed side. This seems to eliminate essentially all snipe (at least to the point that it isn't noticeble after final sanding and finishing) except once in awhile. The problem is that I am not really sure what causes the once in awhile snipe.
Randy

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1257
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #116 on: August 15, 2020, 11:22 AM »
@Cheese you're supposed to dig the railroad spike out of the wood BEFORE you run it through the planer!  [wink]

Bet you got a bad batch of inserts or something.

Ron

Offline Rusty Miller

  • Posts: 244
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #117 on: August 15, 2020, 11:52 AM »
As for a torque wrench check out Holbren Precision Cutting Tool’s. $39.95 for a torque wrench already set to 45 inch pounds just for the shelix head cutter.  I found out about it from a guy named Ben Burnick of Chalkstone woodworking.
Rusty
Rusty Miller
I'd rather be woodworking!

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 4127
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #118 on: August 15, 2020, 12:07 PM »
I still got snipe after installing the Shelix, but I realized it's really a function of the rollers on the 735.  The method I use now, which has eliminated it almost completely, is to plane the boards in a continuous sequence with no space in between them.  That means I also add sacrificial boards at the front and back ends -- I tend to just use 2x6 offcuts that I keep around just for that purpose.

Have you tried lifting the end of the wood up as you feed it into the planer?  This always worked for me, i would get very little snipe. You only need to do that until it is engaged in the outfeed roller then lift that edge until the wood exits the outfeed roller.

Ya Don I've tried a number of things to reduce snipe, most successful in varying degrees was lifting the end of the piece, only removing .015" (1/64") per pass and arranging the boards so that I could feed the boards continually, end to end so that only the first board  and the last board through the router had snipe.

I'm sure industrial Powermatics and their like don't have these issues. Unfortunately I don't have the space and sometimes this beast needs to be moved outside. That'd prove impossible with a 500# Powermatic.

I'm always interested in solutions for snipe but, for me, it only occurs sporadically. For the most part, I angle my infeed and outfeed tables at a slight angle so the outer edges are just slightly higher than the bed of the planer. I also put some upward pressure from underneath the board on the outfeed side. This seems to eliminate essentially all snipe (at least to the point that it isn't noticeble after final sanding and finishing) except once in awhile. The problem is that I am not really sure what causes the once in awhile snipe.
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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2015
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #119 on: August 15, 2020, 12:12 PM »
Another thing I do to keep snipe waste to a minimum is that I do not trim the ends (usually sealed or painted) until the thicknessing process is done first. 

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 1008
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #120 on: August 15, 2020, 12:42 PM »
Another thing I do to keep snipe waste to a minimum is that I do not trim the ends (usually sealed or painted) until the thicknessing process is done first.

That's me.  With some planning you can minimize the waste to the point where it's negligible.  The quality of the finish is way important that snipe in my world.
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Offline Nailed IT

  • Posts: 30
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #121 on: August 16, 2020, 09:20 AM »
@Cheese Boy I hope Byrd takes care of you on that. 
A systainer of bits and bytes.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #122 on: August 16, 2020, 09:35 AM »
Cheese I have been using my DW735 with Byrd head for 5 1/2 years (just checked amazon for the date) and I have not had to replace or rotate a single insert.  In that time I have run a lot of stock including hard maple, white oak, walnut and quite a bit of ipe.  Your insert issues are quite atypical in my experience.  I did use a torque wrench to verify each insert (I bought the smaller head that comes preloaded) after I installed the head.  I also have a Byrd on my jointer that's a bit older and I think I have rotated 2 inserts and replaced one cracked insert.

Kevin I'm quite satisfied with the DW735 as I purchased it back in 2008 and have burned through 5 sets of blades in that time. I think this Byrd insert issue is just an anomaly and once it gets sorted I'll be extremely happy with this modification.

In the past my issue was that the Dewalt blades were always so soft that they would wear down in spots and provide an undulating surface.

When planing materials I always set the  planing depth with the Wixey digital gage and then measure the board thickness with a dial caliper . With the Dewalt blades the thickness of the board, measured at many points, always varied by .010"-.015", sometimes even more.

With the Shelix head I'm always amazed that the thickness only varies by .002"-.004" and usually it's LESS than that.  [big grin]

I've measured many boards that were ±.001" at every measurement point.  [jawdrop]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #123 on: August 16, 2020, 09:53 AM »
@Cheese you're supposed to dig the railroad spike out of the wood BEFORE you run it through the planer!  [wink]

Bet you got a bad batch of inserts or something.

Ron

LOL...railroad spike indeed...who'd a thunk?

Ron @rvieceli  When I opened the planer up I gave it a quick look and first noticed the broken insert still in-place, then the insert with the v-notch, then a few cracked inserts, at that juncture I decided to start from scratch because I knew something was wrong.

So everything has been cleaned and torqued and I'll run some birds-eye through it today and check out the results.  [smile]

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2015
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #124 on: August 16, 2020, 02:12 PM »
One more snipe reduction technique to share: set the leading edge of the infeed table and the trailing edge of the outfeed table higher than the planer’s bed by 1/8" to 1/4". (Your manual probably tells you to set them flat with the bed.)

I spent some two hours planing maple and sapele/mahogany planks this morning (about 40 board feet; from 1" planed to 3/4" & 1/2"; regular blades), and most of them are snipe-free. One long board (over 8') does have a visible snipe, as I was too lazy to crosscut it first. :-[

Sorry for that blurry pic.

After a few days of acclimation in the shop, I'll rip them for jointing (they still have rough edges right now), cross cut everything to length and do some dominoes.

EDIT: Another tip: Always use some kind of roller support on both ends when handling stock that's over 3' long.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 09:04 AM by ChuckM »

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 4127
Re: DW735 Planer with Byrd Shelix Head Cutter, Changing Inserts
« Reply #125 on: August 17, 2020, 08:32 AM »
Oof, I would imagine it gets laborious torquing all those inserts with the straight handled driver.  One of the nice things about the Wera is the L-shaped handle, which generates more leverage to reach the higher torques.




Hi @Cheese  Thanks for the heads up on the inserts. 
In another thread @ear3 recommended the Wera screwdriver type and that looks like a good choice, but I was wondering what other light duty torque wrenches would be good for occasional uses like this.  Are there any that are recommended?

Hi @mike_aa   [smile]  I will be contacting Byrd this weekend because I do think this may be a QA issue about carbide inserts being too brittle or becoming too crystaline over time.  I read the @Mike Goetzke report and he may be right, I don't know as aligning events with a time line that extends for several years is difficult. [smile] I'll report back on their response on this thread when I've received an answer.  [smile]

As far as torque wrenches go, I purchased this Wiha specifically for this purpose. However, after torquing in several of the inserts, this is a solution for fewer than 10 inserts. After that it becomes ridiculous. Think of it as a small handled screwdriver, there is just so much leverage you can apply to drive the screw home before you give up in disgust. There is a reason that Wiha rates this driver as 50 in/lb max...and we're torquing the inserts at 45 in/lb...The Hulk likely wouldn't be able to put more torque into this than 50 in/lb.  [big grin]

I'll post a photo tomorrow on my preferred method.

(Attachment Link)
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T 18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TID 18 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • AGC 18-115 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer with Byrd Shelix Head Cutter, Changing Inserts
« Reply #126 on: August 17, 2020, 10:12 AM »
Oof, I would imagine it gets laborious torquing all those inserts with the straight handled driver.  One of the nice things about the Wera is the L-shaped handle, which generates more leverage to reach the higher torques.

You're right Edward...it gets very laborious.  [crying]

In a pinch, to replace and torque a couple of inserts, the straight handled screwdriver approach will work.

For anything other than a couple of inserts, the Wera model you suggest would be a lot better solution.

I decided to use a standard "clicker" type torque wrench. That allowed me to attach a 12" extension to more easily get at the inserts that are "down inside" the 735. That way the work is being done above the yellow plastic case of the Dewalt.

Here's the Holbren solution that Rusty mentioned.  [big grin]

https://www.holbren.com/byrd-shelix-head-accessories/torque-wrench-for-byrd-shelix-heads-set-to-45-inch-pounds/






Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4875
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #127 on: August 17, 2020, 10:49 AM »
First time I’ve seen a picture of this head. Didn’t realize how small the diameter is. Sure looks like the hairy edge is of feasible.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 11:39 AM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #128 on: August 17, 2020, 10:53 AM »
First time I’ve seen a picture of this head. Didn’t realize how small the diameter is. Sure looks like the hairy edge is feasible.

That's the small diameter cutter head Michael...the larger one has about 1/4" larger diameter. Don't understand the hairy edge thing?

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4875
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #129 on: August 17, 2020, 11:39 AM »
Seems like it couldn’t be any smaller  [scared]

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1739
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #130 on: August 17, 2020, 01:09 PM »
Can anyone explain why there are two size cutter heads, and is there an advantage to one over the other. Or did they find the smaller diameter works better.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #131 on: August 17, 2020, 02:07 PM »
The smaller cutter head has the advantage of being able to be installed in the DW735 with the inserts installed, so you get it from Byrd ready to go.  The downside is that the effective diameter is smaller than the stock DW735 head which means that the depth of cut scale and the fixed stops must be adjusted after installation and the pinch rollers pinch harder.  The larger Byrd head matches the geometry of the stock DW735 head but must be installed naked (without inserts) and then the inserts are installed and torqued with the head in place.  At the time I purchased my Byrd head I was unaware that I was buying the undersized head but in retrospect it would have been easier overall to install the big head.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1739
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #132 on: August 17, 2020, 05:42 PM »
Thanks Kevin.

Not sure which one I have. Bought it a couple years ago and waiting to use up my DeWalt blades before I make the switch.

Or I guess I could sell the three unopened sets of DeWalt blades I have and offset the cost of the Shelix conversion a little.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #133 on: August 17, 2020, 06:04 PM »
Not sure which one I have.

Hey Bob, easy enough to tell if you have bearings already mounted on the Shelix. For the small diameter head, the diameter of the cutters will be just slightly less than the OD of the bearing.


Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1739
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #134 on: August 17, 2020, 09:12 PM »
Yes, I will have to take a look see next chance I get.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 361
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #135 on: August 18, 2020, 07:39 AM »

Or I guess I could sell the three unopened sets of DeWalt blades I have...


Bob I would definitely make the switch sooner!

Offline Nailed IT

  • Posts: 30
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #136 on: September 04, 2020, 04:38 PM »
@Cheese  Did you ever get a resolution to this issue?
A systainer of bits and bytes.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7695
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #137 on: September 05, 2020, 10:00 AM »
@Cheese  Did you ever get a resolution to this issue?

Well not really @Nailed IT . [sad]

I did find out that Byrd is purchasing the inserts from Tigra a German firm. The carbide is T10MG (Micro Grain) one of the toughest that Tigra offers. Unfortunately, this particular insert shape is offered only in T10MG. Because of the chipping issues I encountered I was thinking about trying the insert in a different carbide material/binder configuration but that appears to be a no-go.

Byrd also mentioned that they were unaware of any brittleness issues with the inserts.


Offline mkasdin

  • Posts: 193
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #138 on: September 21, 2020, 01:55 AM »
Has anyone looked into or purchased Grizzly cutterheads for the Dewalt?

Offline Nailed IT

  • Posts: 30
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #139 on: September 22, 2020, 09:18 AM »
@Cheese  Did you ever get a resolution to this issue?

Well not really @Nailed IT . [sad]

I did find out that Byrd is purchasing the inserts from Tigra a German firm. The carbide is T10MG (Micro Grain) one of the toughest that Tigra offers. Unfortunately, this particular insert shape is offered only in T10MG. Because of the chipping issues I encountered I was thinking about trying the insert in a different carbide material/binder configuration but that appears to be a no-go.

Byrd also mentioned that they were unaware of any brittleness issues with the inserts.

Sorry to hear there was no help from the mfr.  Thanks for the update!
A systainer of bits and bytes.