Author Topic: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter  (Read 26835 times)

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Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 1008
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #120 on: August 15, 2020, 12:42 PM »
Another thing I do to keep snipe waste to a minimum is that I do not trim the ends (usually sealed or painted) until the thicknessing process is done first.

That's me.  With some planning you can minimize the waste to the point where it's negligible.  The quality of the finish is way important that snipe in my world.
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Offline Nailed IT

  • Posts: 29
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #121 on: August 16, 2020, 09:20 AM »
@Cheese Boy I hope Byrd takes care of you on that. 
A systainer of bits and bytes.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7675
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #122 on: August 16, 2020, 09:35 AM »
Cheese I have been using my DW735 with Byrd head for 5 1/2 years (just checked amazon for the date) and I have not had to replace or rotate a single insert.  In that time I have run a lot of stock including hard maple, white oak, walnut and quite a bit of ipe.  Your insert issues are quite atypical in my experience.  I did use a torque wrench to verify each insert (I bought the smaller head that comes preloaded) after I installed the head.  I also have a Byrd on my jointer that's a bit older and I think I have rotated 2 inserts and replaced one cracked insert.

Kevin I'm quite satisfied with the DW735 as I purchased it back in 2008 and have burned through 5 sets of blades in that time. I think this Byrd insert issue is just an anomaly and once it gets sorted I'll be extremely happy with this modification.

In the past my issue was that the Dewalt blades were always so soft that they would wear down in spots and provide an undulating surface.

When planing materials I always set the  planing depth with the Wixey digital gage and then measure the board thickness with a dial caliper . With the Dewalt blades the thickness of the board, measured at many points, always varied by .010"-.015", sometimes even more.

With the Shelix head I'm always amazed that the thickness only varies by .002"-.004" and usually it's LESS than that.  [big grin]

I've measured many boards that were ±.001" at every measurement point.  [jawdrop]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7675
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #123 on: August 16, 2020, 09:53 AM »
@Cheese you're supposed to dig the railroad spike out of the wood BEFORE you run it through the planer!  [wink]

Bet you got a bad batch of inserts or something.

Ron

LOL...railroad spike indeed...who'd a thunk?

Ron @rvieceli  When I opened the planer up I gave it a quick look and first noticed the broken insert still in-place, then the insert with the v-notch, then a few cracked inserts, at that juncture I decided to start from scratch because I knew something was wrong.

So everything has been cleaned and torqued and I'll run some birds-eye through it today and check out the results.  [smile]

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1980
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #124 on: August 16, 2020, 02:12 PM »
One more snipe reduction technique to share: set the leading edge of the infeed table and the trailing edge of the outfeed table higher than the planer’s bed by 1/8" to 1/4". (Your manual probably tells you to set them flat with the bed.)

I spent some two hours planing maple and sapele/mahogany planks this morning (about 40 board feet; from 1" planed to 3/4" & 1/2"; regular blades), and most of them are snipe-free. One long board (over 8') does have a visible snipe, as I was too lazy to crosscut it first. :-[

Sorry for that blurry pic.

After a few days of acclimation in the shop, I'll rip them for jointing (they still have rough edges right now), cross cut everything to length and do some dominoes.

EDIT: Another tip: Always use some kind of roller support on both ends when handling stock that's over 3' long.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 09:04 AM by ChuckM »

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 4123
Re: DW735 Planer with Byrd Shelix Head Cutter, Changing Inserts
« Reply #125 on: August 17, 2020, 08:32 AM »
Oof, I would imagine it gets laborious torquing all those inserts with the straight handled driver.  One of the nice things about the Wera is the L-shaped handle, which generates more leverage to reach the higher torques.




Hi @Cheese  Thanks for the heads up on the inserts. 
In another thread @ear3 recommended the Wera screwdriver type and that looks like a good choice, but I was wondering what other light duty torque wrenches would be good for occasional uses like this.  Are there any that are recommended?

Hi @mike_aa   [smile]  I will be contacting Byrd this weekend because I do think this may be a QA issue about carbide inserts being too brittle or becoming too crystaline over time.  I read the @Mike Goetzke report and he may be right, I don't know as aligning events with a time line that extends for several years is difficult. [smile] I'll report back on their response on this thread when I've received an answer.  [smile]

As far as torque wrenches go, I purchased this Wiha specifically for this purpose. However, after torquing in several of the inserts, this is a solution for fewer than 10 inserts. After that it becomes ridiculous. Think of it as a small handled screwdriver, there is just so much leverage you can apply to drive the screw home before you give up in disgust. There is a reason that Wiha rates this driver as 50 in/lb max...and we're torquing the inserts at 45 in/lb...The Hulk likely wouldn't be able to put more torque into this than 50 in/lb.  [big grin]

I'll post a photo tomorrow on my preferred method.

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7675
Re: DW735 Planer with Byrd Shelix Head Cutter, Changing Inserts
« Reply #126 on: August 17, 2020, 10:12 AM »
Oof, I would imagine it gets laborious torquing all those inserts with the straight handled driver.  One of the nice things about the Wera is the L-shaped handle, which generates more leverage to reach the higher torques.

You're right Edward...it gets very laborious.  [crying]

In a pinch, to replace and torque a couple of inserts, the straight handled screwdriver approach will work.

For anything other than a couple of inserts, the Wera model you suggest would be a lot better solution.

I decided to use a standard "clicker" type torque wrench. That allowed me to attach a 12" extension to more easily get at the inserts that are "down inside" the 735. That way the work is being done above the yellow plastic case of the Dewalt.

Here's the Holbren solution that Rusty mentioned.  [big grin]

https://www.holbren.com/byrd-shelix-head-accessories/torque-wrench-for-byrd-shelix-heads-set-to-45-inch-pounds/






Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4867
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #127 on: August 17, 2020, 10:49 AM »
First time I’ve seen a picture of this head. Didn’t realize how small the diameter is. Sure looks like the hairy edge is of feasible.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 11:39 AM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7675
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #128 on: August 17, 2020, 10:53 AM »
First time I’ve seen a picture of this head. Didn’t realize how small the diameter is. Sure looks like the hairy edge is feasible.

That's the small diameter cutter head Michael...the larger one has about 1/4" larger diameter. Don't understand the hairy edge thing?

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4867
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #129 on: August 17, 2020, 11:39 AM »
Seems like it couldn’t be any smaller  [scared]

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1732
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #130 on: August 17, 2020, 01:09 PM »
Can anyone explain why there are two size cutter heads, and is there an advantage to one over the other. Or did they find the smaller diameter works better.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 359
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #131 on: August 17, 2020, 02:07 PM »
The smaller cutter head has the advantage of being able to be installed in the DW735 with the inserts installed, so you get it from Byrd ready to go.  The downside is that the effective diameter is smaller than the stock DW735 head which means that the depth of cut scale and the fixed stops must be adjusted after installation and the pinch rollers pinch harder.  The larger Byrd head matches the geometry of the stock DW735 head but must be installed naked (without inserts) and then the inserts are installed and torqued with the head in place.  At the time I purchased my Byrd head I was unaware that I was buying the undersized head but in retrospect it would have been easier overall to install the big head.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1732
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #132 on: August 17, 2020, 05:42 PM »
Thanks Kevin.

Not sure which one I have. Bought it a couple years ago and waiting to use up my DeWalt blades before I make the switch.

Or I guess I could sell the three unopened sets of DeWalt blades I have and offset the cost of the Shelix conversion a little.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7675
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #133 on: August 17, 2020, 06:04 PM »
Not sure which one I have.

Hey Bob, easy enough to tell if you have bearings already mounted on the Shelix. For the small diameter head, the diameter of the cutters will be just slightly less than the OD of the bearing.


Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1732
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #134 on: August 17, 2020, 09:12 PM »
Yes, I will have to take a look see next chance I get.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 359
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #135 on: August 18, 2020, 07:39 AM »

Or I guess I could sell the three unopened sets of DeWalt blades I have...


Bob I would definitely make the switch sooner!

Offline Nailed IT

  • Posts: 29
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #136 on: September 04, 2020, 04:38 PM »
@Cheese  Did you ever get a resolution to this issue?
A systainer of bits and bytes.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7675
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #137 on: September 05, 2020, 10:00 AM »
@Cheese  Did you ever get a resolution to this issue?

Well not really @Nailed IT . [sad]

I did find out that Byrd is purchasing the inserts from Tigra a German firm. The carbide is T10MG (Micro Grain) one of the toughest that Tigra offers. Unfortunately, this particular insert shape is offered only in T10MG. Because of the chipping issues I encountered I was thinking about trying the insert in a different carbide material/binder configuration but that appears to be a no-go.

Byrd also mentioned that they were unaware of any brittleness issues with the inserts.