Author Topic: Input on a potential purchase of a Dust Extractor (Processors) Questions?  (Read 2852 times)

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Offline JonnyBBravo

  • Posts: 21
  • Amor Fati!
I am just reaching out to inquire on thoughts and opinions with dust extractors. I understand everyone has there bias towards a brand such as onieda, powermatic, felder. I’m personally looking at the Harvey G700 and for a few reasons:

     1. I prefer to cry once rather then twice with my purchases and plan to keep it for the long term. I’m not rich but I can rub nickels together.
     2. The overall size and profile of the unit gives a little more flexibility in the containment of the processor. An ability to move this around as needed is crucial for me.
     3. Quietness, given I’m doing this in a residential area and wanna respect my neighbors. (I do not have the option to store it in a storage shed).

 I am aware of Bents, Stumpy nubs, carpenter, bourbon moth (G800) YouTube videos of the Harvey models What I presently have is a Festool CT48 AC model which gives me flexibility with some of my homes DIY improvements and works quite well for my Festool tools.  Though I know this doesn’t have the ability to work for a dedicated table saw and other large debris producing tools. I’ve seen Oneida systems but I have to agree with some of the comments with regards to the cheap and thin plastic used on the mobile models is questionable given the associated costs.

I apologize if I’ve posted this in the wrong area. I just wanna know what anyone’s experience and opinions are as I intend to buy the most affordable dust extractor I can afford that will last me the long haul. An the woodworkers in my area I’ve spoken too about it think I’m crazy for not just looking at a simple dust bag collection system, but as I already know they tend to leak and push particles in the air of your shop so simplicity is also a consideration in my future purchase. Thank you for any responses on the topic. As I hope this helps not only myself but all woodworkers in the United States and Abroad. 

An if I am wrong about something please advise as this is a dialogue of discussion to help anyone.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 09:06 PM by JonnyBBravo »

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Offline neilc

  • Posts: 3058
My nephew has the Harvey 700 and really likes it.  He’s using on a sliding table saw.  I looked at them several years ago but went with a Laguna largely because I had more ‘vertical’ space than horizontal space.  The Harvey is also pretty heavy as I recall.  They are quiet.  Not sure how it would work in a ‘central’ setup with piping and multiple machines and drops.  The port for it as I recall is out the front, rather than the back which might affect where you place and how you might pipe it. 

Your biggest chip maker would likely be a planer or joiner.  Next likely is a router table.  I don’t find the TS to bet that much of a challenge for dust collection.  So think about placement.  Moving it around on projects will get old based on my experience. 

I started with a mobile PowerMatic after a Mobile Makita years ago.  I quickly went to a whole-shop unit for better collection and a cleaner shop layout.  That Harvey does take a lot of room to move around and it is heavy, so keep that in mind given your pathways in your shop.  I have a. 12” J/P and can fill the drum on my Laguna in 10 minutes, so I don’t do a lot of planing and when I do, I just bring in a trash can to my garage workshop for easy emptying and knock out any planing in a batch.

You can purchase a CFM meter on Amazon for not much money and it might be of help if you decide to do multiple tools and want to optimize piping and placement. 

I have TS, Planer, thickness sander, Drill Press, Bandsaw, drum sander and disc sander all plumbed to my Laguna and it works well with 4” PVC pipe. 

Neil
« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 10:33 AM by neilc »

Offline JonnyBBravo

  • Posts: 21
  • Amor Fati!
@neilc (Neil) thank you for the response. Yes I have vertical and somewhat horizontal space. Though I plan to just use a flex hose with a quick connect system. On each tool as acquired or used. I’ve seen the upright laguna extractors just not sure how loud they are in use. But my experience building a cyclone with a cabinet maker I use to apprentice with a large drum canister under it was quite loud. More factors to consider now. Just looking to be able to roll everything around against a area in my garage and pull it out as needed is my approach.

Offline JonnyBBravo

  • Posts: 21
  • Amor Fati!
So I’m kinda between three company’s at the moment Oneida Air, ClearVue and Harvey. Any thoughts or experiences is appreciated. Thank you.

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 131
Any of those choices would generally mean the installation of a ducted system which will cost the same no matter which DE is selected. The only one I have had experience with is the Clearvue and it is very noisy and just about everyone has to take measures to reduce the noise which can be done successfully without a huge amount of effort. As a general rule if you move a lot of air which is the whole point then you make a lot of noise.

Something that is not done in the US but is standard practise in Oz is to use a three phase motor controlled by a VFD and this allows the DE to be run at different speeds for different reasons and that will affect the noise levels. I would not buy a single phase DE for a bet after many years of selling and working with three phase machines. I understand that using a three phase machine to most in the US is a very strange and foreign idea but it is the single best thing that can be done for total control of the DE and after all it is the same DE with a different motor and the VFD supplies the three phase from a 220V single phase power supply.

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1913
While it isn’t that pertinent to the OP’s question, but more so to @Mini Me, three phase motor are usually cheaper than single phase while also being more reliable. Adding the VFD raises the cost but really makes for a better application overall.

That is something the OP may consider in his decision: get a unit with a 3PH motor and add the VFD to make it more adaptable and potentially quieter (when run at slower speeds).
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 131
It took me a few years to work out that being forced to use three phase was the best thing that could have happened. Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees and the advantages are so obvious I wonder sometimes why cyclones are sold as single phase at all. Certainly in Oz three phase is the only power used and 99% of units are 240V.

Offline JonnyBBravo

  • Posts: 21
  • Amor Fati!
Thanks. Yes I’m aware you can use phase converters if you choose to go to a 3 phase unit. Currently wiring up here soon my shop an using 10gauge wiring for the 220V lines so the possibility to upgrade to 30amps is already there.

Presently I’m not sure the Harvey G700 is worth it’s value seeming how the impellers are getting the brunt over a cyclone. I’m just doing my research and trying to find a unit that has a high CFM in real time use which some specify like on Oneida air specs.

I appreciate the insights and feedback from you both.

Offline Bernmc

  • Posts: 88
Worth thinking about your space and ducting plan too. The Harvey takes up a chunk of horizontal space, but not much vertical, and the duct intake is on the front (which is a bit of a pain for a fixed ducting system). The clearvue is tall - so it takes a lot of vertical space rather than horizontal. Easier to aim the intake wherever you want to neaten up the ducting.

I'd 2nd the 3P/VFD motor - I regret getting a SP motor, and will change it to 3P when I eventually get around to sorting out the DE

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3595
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
You have good advice to avoid the bag units. I had a bag collector years ago and fine dust was everywhere. I now have a couple of Oneida 220v units and they are great. The noise isn’t too bad. With the powerful collectors, you need really strong ducting. I have metal blast gates at each tool.


I have a young engineer friend who is putting a totally new shop. He’s going with the mobile Oneida unit after a lot of research. He’s buying a SawStop table saw so needs a large volume collector.
Birdhunter

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 831
The thing about large CFM systems is always going to be about noise. Even if it was possible to have absolutely no noise from the air itself coming back into the shop (or the motor) you will always hear the suction. This is impossible to eliminate. The higher CFM, the worse this gets.

I work in a huge shop, where the exhaust air goes outside over half of the year. The actual motor and bag system is all outside, but the intake sound is always there. The exhaust air does come back in during heating months to keep from blowing the heat out of the building faster than anything could ever heat it, or from sucking the windows in....lol
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
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Offline Rob Z

  • Posts: 1068
Good morning Jonny

I had a ClearVue in the last house/shop and have nothing but good things to say about it. The only "downside" is the assembly of all the components, assuming a buyer prefers to get the DC up and running quickly.  I sold it once we moved to a TH, and my shop size is so much smaller that a large unit like the CV with all the fixed ductwork just wouldn't make sense.

For the Oneida:  I have a Oneida Dust Cobra and use it mostly for DC on my table saw blade guard and also a small sander.  I know this isn't something that serves your needs but mention to say that the build quality is excellent and it's a typical Oneida product: solid, well-built, does what the company says it will do.

I have owned two Oneida Mini Gorillas and have the same thoughts as listed above for the Dust Cobra. Those aren't in the same league CFM-wise as what you're looking for, but they support my strong recommendation for Oneida as a company.

I now have the Oneida Supercell.  Typical Oneida quality.

So, my small point of view for you is that you won't go wrong choosing either the CV or an Oneida product that is sized to suit your requirements.




So I’m kinda between three company’s at the moment Oneida Air, ClearVue and Harvey. Any thoughts or experiences is appreciated. Thank you.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 831
From what I remember about Bourbonmoth's video about the Harvey system, it is extremely expensive. I know that's rich coming from me, but still? Most guys wouldn't consider spending something like 8K (IIRC) for their entire shop full of tools, much less on dust collection alone.
I know that was the ductwork too and he went top-shelf there, but that's a lot more than the alternatives.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation

Offline JonnyBBravo

  • Posts: 21
  • Amor Fati!
Thank you to all who’ve responded or replied. 👍🙏🍻🥂
@Crazyraceguy
@Rob Z
@Birdhunter
@Bernmc

I spoke with Oneida and laguna today. I’ll share responses below. An excuse any typos as I’ve written this on a cellphone. Anything you wish to share or add is appreciated.

I do know that marketing, big words and fancy use of words are used to sell things along with the psychological factor. Your presenting a problem and they are trying to tell you why there solution (product) is the or to run with. I am also not trying to get caught up in a bias approach opinion. The most difficult thing to all of the available materials have a black and white truthful approach. I understand brand loyalty, confidence in a product and all of this. Just hate dealing with sales people because they have a motive to get the sale (commission etc). I’m not knocking anyone either for getting sponsorships. My thing is just give me the facts and help woodworkers buy the best product for there needs. Clearly cost is a tier factor to this. An I do not mind spending the 💸💸💸 but I do not want a headache of maintenance, customer service issues. I just wanna make saw dust in the most safest plausible way. An to own a piece of equipment for many years. If it takes me a little longer to rub some Nickles together so be it. But I just wanna ensure that the information I’m sharing is helpful for all and the input for all has been awesome. So just understand I’m just trying to help myself and others with what all contributes to this post.

So I’ve talked to Oneida and yes they have a great customer service team. But also during the conversation they play on the psychological game of what you say. One thing I’ve also noticed is how much prices have jumped up on almost everything they have listed. I’ve discussed with them the supercell but in my opinion the real time CFM is not adequate (468 cfm if I am
Citing correctly). The V System looks promising but was told that unless you stick with 4-6” connections to the tool the CFM and WC is not adequate for anything small then a 4” connection. The gorilla pro can handle 2”-8” no problem but there’s a extra 1k plus accessories to consider so 4k plus.

As for my conversation with laguna. I’ll say that there customer service is defiantly needing a major renovation. The people were all nice but just some of the VM of the sales agent contradicted what the agent who transferred me. He was like if he doesn’t answer just leave a message. Then the VM says don’t leave a VM and email the sales agent whom I was being transferred too. Anyways laguna is about too launch three revised models. One being a single stage canister, CFLUX and PFLUX. Per the sales agent this was his opinion and advice. He said buy the new PFLUX; Buy the old CFLUX. He said the specs were not gonna change but that features were being changed. He said for example on the PFLUX an automatic filter cleaner is being added; a 3 sided canister instead of 5; a led light in the waste bin was being added; and the control box could be mounted on either side for shop configurations. He said they will launch in January 22 but probably wouldn’t ship till Feb-Apr 2022. Due to logistical costs, production and they are presently wrapping up the manuals, videos, and general testing to ensure the prototypes going to the market were up to snuff essentially. I didn’t really ask to many questions on the CFLUX model but that’s what he shared with me above and I just asked general questions about the single stage such as bag or filter. Just to gain an idea.

I’m not affiliated to any product or brand. I’m still digging in on what I wanna do but for right now looking at the gorilla pro model. Looking around for used collectors and tools in my area as well.

As for the Harvey my concern is that overtime with all debris going over the motor could be a potential issue. Yes I’m aware some out rare earth magnets in the ducting to remove any metals but aluminum will not stick and the discussions on sparks occurring a shop fire makes me wonder. By no means am I an expert on any of this. However a few engineers and respected wood workers in my area have shared this with me. Focus on a real time cfm of 1100 so no matter what you do or go you’ll always have the adequate amount of power and need for upgrades, expansions, and anything that could happen. Second was explaining how cyclone operation and the pros and cons of it all.
 [scared]
My only question I’ve kinda ran across in all my reading is how the pleats inside filters could affect the filter materials. I did pose this question to Laguna and what he essentially shared was unless metal debris gets in that portion, you deliberately damage the filter, or some kind of crazy thing occurs you shouldn’t have a issue with the pleats ripping or damaging the filter.

Either way as I continue to dig deeper into this rabbit hole. I’m just trying to make the best sound decision and share with you all anything of great help. Yes I know I’m probably over doing this but it’s a pretty hefty investment into your own health and overall long term wood working journey whether a hobbyist or full time professional.
 
I plan to run a DC or DE with 240V I have 10 gauge wire for those plugs to up the amps to 30 without a problem. My ceiling height is 99” but I can notch out a box in my ceiling between joists if needed. But I’d be fine using a 35 gallon drum if I went with the gorilla pro I have enough clearance per Oneida for that.

Bourbon Moth spent 16k with duct work on his shop upgrade as I recall him saying. 💸💸💸💸 [eek] [scared]  [blink]

If you have input on the overall experience with your Supercell @Rob Z. I think it’s honestly a cool little machine kinda like a larger version of a Dyson vacuum but more motors. But the CFM is what has me concerned.

Something else to consider is these machines do dissipate heat. So if you live in a hot area like me it’s something to factor in so if I recall Oneida said it’s essentially a 3600 watt space heater for the V3000.

So as it presently stands just asking questions and feeling this all out. Thank you to all again!
 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 01:14 AM by JonnyBBravo »

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 131
Thanks. Yes I’m aware you can use phase converters if you choose to go to a 3 phase unit. Currently wiring up here soon my shop an using 10gauge wiring for the 220V lines so the possibility to upgrade to 30amps is already there.

Presently I’m not sure the Harvey G700 is worth it’s value seeming how the impellers are getting the brunt over a cyclone. I’m just doing my research and trying to find a unit that has a high CFM in real time use which some specify like on Oneida air specs.

I appreciate the insights and feedback from you both.

Don't use a phase converter, the proper way to do it is a 240V Variable Frequency Drive. This converts single phase to 3 phase and allows speed control.

Offline JonnyBBravo

  • Posts: 21
  • Amor Fati!
Understood. I have a family member whom runs a phase converter for his cnc that requires 440v so he uses a phase converter to run this in his garage. He runs a manufacturing business that he owns. But this is what I was referring too. I do not believe I’ll be running anything 440V. But thanks for the feedback @Mini Me

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1215
I kinda wanted a G700 for it's quietness, and the horizontal form is pretty close to what I did wind up buying a tall Jet 3HP shorty cyclone that takes up a massive amount of floor space. Only reason I got the Jet was cost, as I got a really really good deal on it minus the filter which would have been tossed by me anyway as I won't settle for less than a HEPA filtering down to .3 microns. I searched Craiglist for a long time and nothing used ever came up except those cheesy dust bag filters, sometimes with a cyclone attached inline.

Whatever direction you go I would highly recommend a HEPA filter. If one plans to vent outside who cares what brand you buy, just get the power you need, which will NOT include a Harbor Freight 2HP. After researching the heck out of filters, what I found is there isn't much information and there are few HEPA rated filters big enough for a 3HP dust collector. All HEPA filters are really expensive, but I choose Oneida for there written test results by a third party lab. I knew exactly what I was getting, plus they offer a silencer that fits inside the filter. Often the plenum to the filter is also fitted with sound deadening material like carpet even. Wynn filters are not HEPA. I also wouldn't hesitate to purchase an Oneida dust collector, along with Powermatic, Laguna, or even a Harvey. Harvey's are typically on sale, and right now the G700 is $2600 plus shipping. Clearvue's are super tall and won't fit all work areas, but are known for good dust separation because of their height. The shorty cyclones like Jet, Grizzly, etc, don't have as good of separation and tend to kick larger dust particles into the filter more.

If you plan to put it in your work area and want it quieter you can build a removable wall system or build in a closet to lessen the sound, just watch the temps, and be prepared to mix cool air inside.   

Edit: Also I purchased the 4" flex hosing needed for tool connection from Oneida as again I knew that I was getting quality material but at a higher cost which is probably a fair price for the quality I got.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 05:11 PM by Peter_C »

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 131
I have to host a seminar on dust extraction tomorrow and during these seminars there are a couple of big points that are addressed.

Impeller size is more important than headline HP. A 15" impeller is needed and the HP to drive that. Driving a 14" impeller with a 5HP motor gets no more airflow that driving it with 3HP.

Use 6" ducting to the machine and modify the ports on the machine to accept it. 4" will only flow 750CFM at the static pressures a cyclone works at. 6" flows 1000CFM + at the same pressure.

Never ever believe the published flow figures, they are fantasy land stuff.

Always use 3 phase with a VFD. This a well proven idea over the last 10 years and simply works better. 

Offline JonnyBBravo

  • Posts: 21
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@Peter C thanks for the feedback. Yes I agree with you wholeheartedly on the HEPA thing which is why I was looking at the Pflux over the Cflux. But I kinda covered the new ones coming out. I’m looking at Oneida pretty strongly still. I came across this engineers YouTube channel . He plans to do a follow on video but I would say does a very good job presenting the information. I’m still looking at
The gorilla pro but I think it jumped $500 more since  [blink] the inflation and shipping costs of barges and what not. Example laguna told me they would pay $4000 for a container and now it’s low $22,000. So needless to say we’d the consumer are being hit with higher costs. I’m eager but also know just to take my time so I make the best decision that best suits me. But feedback is much appreciated and helps me a lot.


@Mini Me thank you I for the insight. Do you have personal experiences with a specific brad or product that you presently use in your own shop?


I will say I am eager given the slight or supposed discounts on equipment sales and such. But I will either continue searching my local offerings (offerup, etc) and online forums and sales sights to see if something very much makes me commit to a purchase. I was told by Oneida they don’t really do sales offer but the 10% off from woodcraft that recently passed by is the closest thing they do. Just that our new woodcraft is still trying to get all of there store supplies as they are sitting in a train freight yard. An they are unable to get to it immediately.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1032
But I kinda covered the new ones coming out. I’m looking at Oneida pretty strongly still. I came across this engineers YouTube channel . He plans to do a follow on video but I would say does a

Just a heads-up, since I saw it on this and a few other threads, but to post a YouTube video for the non-mobile folks to see, you need to use the youtube.com URL, not the youtu.be URL.


Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 131
It is a harsh thing to say but apart from a select few and this video is not one of those all the DE information on YT should be ignored. This example is full of don't do's and should not be used a good example of DE. I dislike criticising stuff on forums because inevitably those who give bad advice shout loudest. My response is to point out their health outcomes are their decision and I don't debate at all.

The recipe for a home workshop is simple, 150mm duct,  150 ports on the machine and a 15" impeller on a long cone cyclone and that Oneida is not long cone. Never select a DE on quoted power figures or quoted flow figures and use minimum flex because that kills air flow quicker than anything else. Also as I mentioned above I would buy a single phase DE because three phase removes a host of problems single phase units have. I used to sell Clearvue Cyclones but stopped doing that many years ago due to retirement but we have recently developed a very simple automatic blast gate with sales confined to Australia and NZ for the foreseeable future  and I am now involved in a large dust extraction education program because no one else has taken the time and effort to do it.   

Offline JonnyBBravo

  • Posts: 21
  • Amor Fati!
So at the current moment I’m looking at just purchasing a Oneida V3000. Seems to be the best bang for the buck regards to CFM, quietness and versatility of future tool upgrades or possibilities.

The only cooperative differences between the Oneida models are as follows.

Gorilla Pro: Baldor VFD motor, 300 more cfm, slightly louder. Metal cyclone more noise.
V3000: Leeson Motor, quieter mainly due to the resin molded cyclone.

Some key things that have been brought to my attention by independent sources and fellow wood workers are that flappers will wear and tear the materials of the filter pleeting. The Supercell seems like a great tool but only a 468 CFM would not be good for flexibility of any upgrades or overall dust collection given the specs. An also pointed out by many is sound reason of current cost of the machine. That no matter what it’s going to cost but In the long run choosing Oneida was said by many to be a sound decision as it’s what they do and are well known for. No different than buying a laguna bandsaw because they are known for being one of the better options to purchase. 

There’s just one thing I’m awaiting a response on from someone who’s bought a V3000 that if they wished they went to the gorilla pro instead. That’s really the only thing I’m waiting on or possibly waiting for pricing to flatten out given the raised costs etc. but seems like it’s gonna be around for the long haul.

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1215
One other difference between them is the HEPA filter. 95sf for the V3000, and 110sf for the Gorilla both the 3 and 5hp. The filter I bought from Oneida was the Gorilla 110sf which is $419 currently. The V3000 is designed for and runs on the smaller filter, but...does the air flow decrease faster from plugging?

With a thousand dollar difference between them, it is more of a question of what your future needs will be vs cost. Looking at the specs I would get the Gorilla. Stammering at the cost, I would go to Harbor Freight and buy the $200 dust bag collector errr...dust spreader ;) (I bought a Jet due to cost  [tongue] )

The cyclone on my Jet is steel, and in the future I may consider putting some sound dampening material like Dynamat to make it quieter. I did buy the Oneida sound damper that slips in the filter, and will ad carpet to the plenum. The ones you are looking at already come with sound dampening installed inside the filter area.

Oneida doesn't use flappers, instead they recommend blowing out the filter with compressed air regulated down, while filter is installed to knock the dust out. I am good with using air myself.

Offline JonnyBBravo

  • Posts: 21
  • Amor Fati!
@Peter C thanks for the response. I agree with the air. Using something to rub against a filter over the long run will generate friction and eventually over the course of time create damage to the filter material. I am not interested in a harbor freight. If you listen to the guys video (Blake Pizzey YouTube V3000 video install)above of him using a V3000 in his sound proof shop you’ll see it’s not that bad for overall hearing and what not. My only question I’m awaiting a answer on by him or someone else would be is if they wished they had Opted for the gorilla pro? From the looks of it as he says in his video he states he’s getting 1000 CFM at the TS. An the noise is relatively quiet. I’m still kicking the can a little but although I’m excited to make a decision. I’m just overly analytical on what I decide to do.

A few things that were stated by Oneida was the gorilla pro is more about 80-82 DB when running and slightly louder due to the steel cyclone. An a baldor motor vs a Leeson on the V3000. It still using a resin casted impeller housing. An only getting 1649 cfm vs 1300 on the V3000. There will always be something that will be newer when it comes out and although that is great. I’m just trying to make a sound choice. Now if I was selling pieces for $3000 every few weeks or months I would clearly go that direction in my decision making. But as with many not that I’m tied to a budget it’s a matter of finding a DC that meets my needs and overall safety. Why I’m leaning with Oneida as it’s what they are known for doing. Slow is fast in this decision making. But I’m just trying to share as much information here to help others in the possible same situation. All input is appreciated.

Don’t get me wrong I would love to drive a Lamborghini to get a cup of coffee at 7-11 😂.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 01:49 PM by JonnyBBravo »

Offline tsmi243

  • Posts: 144
long cone cyclone

^^^ This right here may be the best rule of thumb to follow, for those of us who aren't fully up on the engineering behind these systems.  It's been a year or three since I did my best to follow Bill Pentz's research, but the few things that stand out in my memory are pretty much exactly what MiniMe has posted.  6" minimum, 5hp preferred (I believe he thought 3hp would be barely acceptable), and a LONG cone with a downward slope on the inlet pipe. 

So unless you're going to do the research for them, stick to mfg's that have long cone designs.  Or more correctly, eliminate the ones with short cones, and go from there.  OR, as Pentz has also said, lower your budget AND your expectations simultaneously.  If you have the option to vent outside, then the bar is quite a bit lower.


Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 546
I rate the overall value as poor.  It's a clever package , being able to fit under some benches, but it ends there.

For 300 bucks less, you can buy a Felder RL140 that has twice the suction and 60% more waste capacity.


That  is  from  another  thread and  poster regarding  the  chinese   built  G700.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 03:20 PM by Lbob131 »

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 131
@Peter C thanks for the response. I agree with the air. Using something to rub against a filter over the long run will generate friction and eventually over the course of time create damage to the filter material. I am not interested in a harbor freight. If you listen to the guys video (Blake Pizzey YouTube V3000 video install)above of him using a V3000 in his sound proof shop you’ll see it’s not that bad for overall hearing and what not. My only question I’m awaiting a answer on by him or someone else would be is if they wished they had Opted for the gorilla pro? From the looks of it as he says in his video he states he’s getting 1000 CFM at the TS. An the noise is relatively quiet. I’m still kicking the can a little but although I’m excited to make a decision. I’m just overly analytical on what I decide to do.

As I pointed out before the video installation is an excellent example of how not to install a dust extractor. If you want to control noise levels buy a three phase unit and the noise can be dialled into what you want by using VFD to control motor speed. The less motor speed you want to use the bigger the impeller needs to be to compensate. The difference between 50hz and 60hz is about 30% loss of air flow. The claim in the video of 1000CFM is just plain wrong and can't be done using the equipment shown and he has no basis on which to make that claim. He has no way of measuring it at all and to measure it requires complex instrumentation and a large understanding of air behaviour in a duct. I get really annoyed when I see guys in a video rant on about stuff like this and it is all bad information that others through no fault of their own take as good advice. As I said before I do this stuff for a living and in general you get out of it what you put in.

Here is a link to the best dust information on the planet for hobby woodworkers. it is mainly chaired by a gut who was a world leader on building clean rooms and he has done a lot of basic research for others to read.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200

Here is a link to my company website but we do not export and I only put it up to show that even now advances are being made into new methods of improving dust collection at a hobby level which is affordable. Mods, please remove this link if it contravenes forum policy. What we have done is simplify the management of dust collection in a plug and play installation at a hugely reduced price.

https://autoblastgates.com.au/
 

Offline JonnyBBravo

  • Posts: 21
  • Amor Fati!
@Mini Me if you watched the video the in full he says he plans to do testing and such. If you watch his other videos he also borrows tools from his job. As he is an engineer.
So I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that he either will buy the tool to do such measurements or borrow them to do the said testing.

What I’m looking for here is people who’ve bought these pieces of equipment and provide feedback. Not people whom were given these tools through sponsorships. Just woodworkers experiences with these pieces of equipment. This way the information they share is based on there personal experiences and helps people buy a piece of equipment. I do appreciate the information you have shared. But the main thing I’m asking which has been answered by Blake (YouTuber). Is that if he had the cash to buy a 5 HP he would of. But he also said he wouldn’t go lower than a 3HP given his personal experiences of equipment he’s personally used.

Offline Mini Me

  • Posts: 131
My point is that HP means nothing, the impeller size is the primary factor in buying any dust extractor. The same size impeller driven by either a 3hp or 5hp will not pump any more air as long as both motors will drive the impeller equally. As I said I don't debate this stuff so your decision is your own based on the knowledge you have.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:34 PM by Mini Me »

Offline JonnyBBravo

  • Posts: 21
  • Amor Fati!
@Mini Me Understood. Given that statement what impeller size should someone be looking for? An what size motor should they look for to move said impeller size. I understand the size of the impeller is the driving force of the separation of the dust being drawn from the tool to collector.
I am appreciative of your shared information. Thank you.