Author Topic: Drill press vises  (Read 3998 times)

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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3886
Drill press vises
« on: August 20, 2019, 05:19 PM »
Rather than fabricate a full table for my new Nova dp, I was thinking of getting a fancier vise than the current no-frills 4" Irwin dp vise I currently have, maybe a 2-way cross/compound vise or even a cradle style one that allows angle adjustments.  Wondering if anyone has recommendations, as there seem to be an assortment of options available at a huge range of price points: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=drill+press+vise&ref=nb_sb_noss_1
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Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 435
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2019, 05:40 PM »
I have a standard DP vise and a Wilton style cross vise (X & Y). The truth is that I almost never use them. They sit down on the base of my DP. 99% of my DP work is woodwork and almost always at 90 degrees to the table. I built a table with a fence with stops and embedded tracks to accommodate hold downs galore. It is oversized to support large work and I find it to be infinitely more useful than all of my vises put together. It also has a replaceable piece in the drilling area so that I can have a fresh surface when I need a solid backing to prevent blowout splintering. If I do need angles it has a vertical side with more embedded tracks that can be swiveled into place for vertical drilling straight or at an angle.

Just my opinion and what works for the type of work that I do.

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 537
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2019, 05:43 PM »
I used one of those vises for a threading jig on my lathe.  They do work, but are not very good vises in general.  Too fiddly and the clamping threads and handles are rough and crude.  Travel is not consistent through its range of travel and the adjustments to tighten the gibs don't help alot.

Mine was branded Bitmore and there is an identical version in a different color at HF. The ones linked to look to be more of the same.   For the price, they can get the job done if you are willing to put up with all of the fiddling around to adjust it.



« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 05:47 PM by Dick Mahany »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4271
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2019, 06:27 PM »
This is what I bought for working with aluminum. It’s the smallest/lightest I thought would suffice.

No complaints but I’m pretty sure it was at least $100 less (on sale) when I purchased.


Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1056
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2019, 08:30 PM »
Edward for mostly woodworking just go ahead and make the table. You'll be better off. Kurt is the big name in milling vises. also with a big price tag. The cheaper ones are frustrating and really no help for wood.

https://www.mscdirect.com/products/kurt-brand?rdrct=Kurt&cid=ppc-google-New%20-%20General%20Industrial%20-%20Supplier%20-%20PPC%20-%20Phrase_sXK3U5aj6_kurt_p_165572223273_c_S&mkwid=sXK3U5aj6|dc&pcrid=165572223273

Michael interesting set up. Consider adding some loc-line vac parts to your rig.

https://www.loc-line.com/product/80813/

Ron

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6543
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2019, 09:53 PM »
I agree with Ron's assessment. better yet, just purchase the Woodpeckers drill press table and attach it to the Voyager. It's a really nice table and for woodworking I use it 95+% of the time. Very few wooden items need to be held in a vise, I use the vises for metal working projects.

On that odd occasion when I need to mount a piece of wood in a vise, I use a little 6# Palmgren vise. Here's a comparison between it and the 40# Heinrich. And the Heinrich is small compared to a 80# Kurt Vise.



Every woodworking project can be held by hand or clamped to the Woodpeckers table with simple table clamps. With all of the metal working projects I do, I haven't had the Woodpeckers table off of the drill press for over 4 years. It's just that versatile.

If you purchase the Woodpeckers table, do consider the DP3 drill press fence option. It has been a godsend for certain tasks.

https://www.woodpeck.com/drilling/drill-press-tables/dp3-drill-press-fence.html

The other option for drilling holes at an angle is to pick up one of these. Another Palmgren issue that's well built.

https://www.palmgren.com/category/Angle-Vises

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3886
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2019, 08:01 AM »
Thanks for the recommendations.  I guess I should rethink building the DP table then.  I'll add it to THE LIST!
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3886
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2019, 08:48 AM »
Those Palmgren tilting vises look sweet BTW.

I agree with Ron's assessment. better yet, just purchase the Woodpeckers drill press table and attach it to the Voyager. It's a really nice table and for woodworking I use it 95+% of the time. Very few wooden items need to be held in a vise, I use the vises for metal working projects.

On that odd occasion when I need to mount a piece of wood in a vise, I use a little 6# Palmgren vise. Here's a comparison between it and the 40# Heinrich. And the Heinrich is small compared to a 80# Kurt Vise.

(Attachment Link)

Every woodworking project can be held by hand or clamped to the Woodpeckers table with simple table clamps. With all of the metal working projects I do, I haven't had the Woodpeckers table off of the drill press for over 4 years. It's just that versatile.

If you purchase the Woodpeckers table, do consider the DP3 drill press fence option. It has been a godsend for certain tasks.

https://www.woodpeck.com/drilling/drill-press-tables/dp3-drill-press-fence.html

The other option for drilling holes at an angle is to pick up one of these. Another Palmgren issue that's well built.

https://www.palmgren.com/category/Angle-Vises
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2758
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2019, 10:57 AM »
@ear3 - check out Lee Valley for a couple of options for vises for drill presses.  Less money than the nice Palmgren's but still useful. 


Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1918
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2019, 11:43 AM »
My  [2cents] would depend on the use.

Woodworking - I'd mostly recommend a WP Style table. For me this is mostly about repetitive setups/multiple parts with hold-down as the secondary aspect.

Metalworking - hold-down is my primary concern, twist drills tend to grab metal to twirl around a bit and do their darndest to take chunks of flesh with it. You can still use the WP table to clamp larger stock or a small, heavy machinist vise works well for small stock. I tend to favor older vises in general but you'll end up haunting ebay or garage sales/auctions to find them.

Metalwork also requires lubricant often which tends to muck up tables for later use with wood.

RMW
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 07:07 PM by Richard/RMW »
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2264
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2019, 03:14 PM »
I use two Grizzly quick adjust vises...a small and and a large one.  The large one weighs enough that I seldom have to secure it.  For heavy duty work I have a 80# Wilton that lives on my bench mill.

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1918
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2019, 06:53 PM »
Total coincidence but I needed to drill then tap some 1.5" round 1214 yesterday, snapped some photos to illustrate its use.







To give this context, these are posts for mounting a Versa Vise to my work cart.







Very handy vise for lots of uses.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6543
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2019, 11:13 AM »
Nice standoffs Richard, simple to install, simple to remove, takes just a twist of the wrist.

I really like that vise, it's so small and compact. All of my vises are big chunks of iron that you leave in one place, except for the little Palmgren. I haven't moved the Wilton 400 in over 20 years as it weighs probably 70#.

I'm going to start looking for one of the early examples like yours Richard.  [smile]

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1360
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2019, 11:18 AM »
Looks like it's raining there rich when you took those photos of the new vise.

I grew up in Absecon and spent a good portion of my younger years where you are,
so I wonder how you handle the humidity and salt air with your tools in the shop.

Do you stay away from cast iron tools or is it a constant battle against rust.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2019, 12:24 PM »
Edward, when I made my most recent drill press table, I still wanted the option to be able to use the stock cast table if I needed too. So I made mine quick release with toggle clamps. I can fit or remove it in seconds.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6543
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2019, 10:19 AM »
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 08:54 AM by Cheese »

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3886
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2019, 03:03 PM »
Thanks for the link.  Kind of incredible that he's doing free shipping on it, so I took the offer.

Those Palmgren tilting vises look sweet BTW.

Hey @ear3 just found this on eBay and it's probably actually a Palmgren...it sure looks like it to me.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Craftsman-Underline-Squared-C-Drill-Press-Vise-Angle-Adjustable-USA/392381317821?hash=item5b5bbfc2bd:g:baIAAOSwF3ldUuZw:sc:USPSPriorityMailPaddedFlatRateEnvelope!55104!US!-1
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6543
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2019, 12:51 AM »
Total coincidence but I needed to drill then tap some 1.5" round 1214 yesterday, snapped some photos to illustrate its use.

@RMW do you think 1.50" aluminum round would work for the vise mounts or would they dent/disfigure when the vise is tightened?

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1918
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2019, 07:56 AM »
Total coincidence but I needed to drill then tap some 1.5" round 1214 yesterday, snapped some photos to illustrate its use.

@RMW do you think 1.50" aluminum round would work for the vise mounts or would they dent/disfigure when the vise is tightened?

@Cheese not sure, I was considering that myself but shied away for that reason. The fit is tight, no more than a few thou, so it wouldn't take much upset metal to jam it.

I'll take a closer look at the clamping mechanism later.

The 1214 came from McMaster, about $30/FT.

@ear that was smart, I looked at the link when it was first posted and was tempted... That vise will serve you well.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6543
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2019, 10:06 AM »
@Cheese not sure, I was considering that myself but shied away for that reason. The fit is tight, no more than a few thou, so it wouldn't take much upset metal to jam it.

I'll take a closer look at the clamping mechanism later.

The 1214 came from McMaster, about $30/FT.


Thanks for that Richard 🙏 ...I just checked and I have some 1 1/2" Ø 6061 so I'll make a standoff and see what happens.

Interesting pricing from McMaster...12L14 from Discount Steel (which is local) is $13 per foot.

Curious why you chose 1214 rather than 1018? Better machinability?


Whoops, almost forgot........

But Mom, it followed me home...


Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1918
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2019, 02:43 PM »
@Cheese not sure, I was considering that myself but shied away for that reason. The fit is tight, no more than a few thou, so it wouldn't take much upset metal to jam it.

I'll take a closer look at the clamping mechanism later.

The 1214 came from McMaster, about $30/FT.


Thanks for that Richard 🙏 ...I just checked and I have some 1 1/2" Ø 6061 so I'll make a standoff and see what happens.

Interesting pricing from McMaster...12L14 from Discount Steel (which is local) is $13 per foot.

Curious why you chose 1214 rather than 1018? Better machinability?


Whoops, almost forgot........

But Mom, it followed me home...

(Attachment Link)

Willburt's long lost twin! I don't even want to know how little it cost...

I needed some other stuff from MMC so I grabbed the steel there rather than hitting Fazzio's for a 4' chunk of 1018 for probably the same price. If I order by about 2:00 MMC arrives next day. Don't recall the difference in cost on the 1018.

PM me your address if you want enough of the cork rubber for the jaws.

RMW

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6543
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2019, 09:09 AM »

Willburt's long lost twin! I don't even want to know how little it cost...

I needed some other stuff from MMC so I grabbed the steel there rather than hitting Fazzio's for a 4' chunk of 1018 for probably the same price. If I order by about 2:00 MMC arrives next day. Don't recall the difference in cost on the 1018.

PM me your address if you want enough of the cork rubber for the jaws.


Ya I found his twin hanging out in California...I guess he got tired of the Midwest.  [big grin]

MMC prices can be steep but their service is terrific. My packages always arrive next day.

I appreciate the kind offer Richard but I'm going to have to purchase some anyways for my other vises. Wilburt, The Record & The Starrett (Yost) are all getting leather pads, possibly the little Palmgren also.  [smile]

Where do you purchase yours?

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1918
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2019, 04:27 PM »
I got the "cork rubber" Andy Klein sourced for his twin speed vise: https://www.in-kleind.com/store/10-x-30-Cork-Rubber-p129024790

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 537
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2019, 05:55 PM »
Those Versa Vise pics by @Richard/RMW and @Cheese really got me interested in finding one.  They look like a such a great addition to a worktable for light duty applications.  I purchased an original tall jaw model from an online seller and am anxiously awaiting its arrival.  Then I just need to figure out how to disassemble it without damaging the bushing on the sliding jaw for refurbishment. 

Used ones in reasonable condition are selling for a little more than the original price........ [eek]


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6543
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2019, 09:55 AM »
I just checked and I have some 1 1/2" Ø 6061 so I'll make a standoff and see what happens.

@Richard/RMW   @Dick Mahany

The interesting thing about the various "Versa Vises" is they are free to pivot on the vise base until you tighten the jaws slightly, then a cam is actuated that presses against the vise base and prevents further rotation. Here's a typical vise base.



I wanted to investigate if the vise base could be fabricated from aluminum rather than steel. So I took a chunk of 6061 aluminum, coated the end with red Dykem, placed it in the bottom vise mount and tightened the vise jaws by placing the vise on the floor and then stepping on the handle. I applied approximately 80-100# of force on the handle. That's certainly several times more than would be applied in typical usage.

Here's a photo of the mark left behind in the red Dykem after the jaws were fully tightened.



I then marked the end of the aluminum where the vise mark was so that when I removed the Dykem, I'd know where to look for any damage caused by the vise cam.



With the Dykem removed, the entire clamping area was looked at closely for any damage. There was absolutely no damage at all.  [smile]



Now, knowing that aluminum mounts would work for this application, I decided to fabricate a mount to be used with 80/20 extrusions (RH side) and a mount with a 20 mm dog end so the vise can be placed on an MFT.



Here the vise is installed vertically & horizontally on a SYS-MFT for working outside.




Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 537
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2019, 10:10 AM »
I just checked and I have some 1 1/2" Ø 6061 so I'll make a standoff and see what happens.

@Richard/RMW   @Dick Mahany

The interesting thing about the various "Versa Vises" is they are free to pivot on the vise base until you tighten the jaws slightly, then a cam is actuated that presses against the vise base and prevents further rotation. Here's a typical vise base.

(Attachment Link)

I wanted to investigate if the vise base could be fabricated from aluminum rather than steel. So I took a chunk of 6061 aluminum, coated the end with red Dykem, placed it in the bottom vise mount and tightened the vise jaws by placing the vise on the floor and then stepping on the handle. I applied approximately 80-100# of force on the handle. That's certainly several times more than would be applied in typical usage.

Here's a photo of the mark left behind in the red Dykem after the jaws were fully tightened.

(Attachment Link)

I then marked the end of the aluminum where the vise mark was so that when I removed the Dykem, I'd know where to look for any damage caused by the vise cam.

(Attachment Link)

With the Dykem removed, the entire clamping area was looked at closely for any damage. There was absolutely no damage at all.  [smile]

(Attachment Link)

Now, knowing that aluminum mounts would work for this application, I decided to fabricate a mount to be used with 80/20 extrusions (RH side) and a mount with a 20 mm dog end so the vise can be placed on an MFT.

(Attachment Link)

Here the vise is installed vertically & horizontally on a SYS-MFT for working outside.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

@Cheese thanks for that great information and excellent pics.  I had wondered if an aluminum base would "brinell" with the clamp action.  I have an old Chinese mini lathe and could easily fab up a couple of mounts and would prefer to use the aluminum if possible.  I have machined the high lead steel material before for pen bushings and the like but I don't have stock that large in diameter.  This is helpful info to know.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4271
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2019, 11:27 AM »
Ditto what Dick said.

Also appreciate how the pics show the scale of the vise.
I’d read the dimensions but it’s bigger than I realized.

What’s the weight of the vise?


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6543
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2019, 12:02 PM »
What’s the weight of the vise?

They quote 16# Michael...it’s a really nice convenient size for real working applications. It may just be kept inside the SYS MFT for the summer and then brought inside to use on the larger MFT  for the winter.  I think the extended height jaws will be nice for sheet metal fabrication.

Offline Rob Z

  • Posts: 835
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2019, 01:31 PM »
Cheese, thumbs up for that excellent modification.   [big grin] That vise sure does have the retro-cool factor.

Going the other direction, I am waiting for my Dad to tell me I can have Grandpa's old vise. I don't recall the brand name, but it originally was mounted on the front of an ancient Oliver tractor on the farm in Kansas.  When Dad says he's ready to let me take it I will likely need to rent an engine hoist to move it  [eek] [scared] [big grin]

One of those things that a fella doesn't need, but wants to have anyway. LOL

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6543
Re: Drill press vises
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2019, 11:33 AM »
I forgot to add that the "thrust bearings" that contact the bottom of the vise and the MFT/8020 extrusions are just 18-8 stainless flat washers that have been pressed onto the aluminum mounting posts.