Author Topic: drill press??  (Read 6276 times)

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Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 188
drill press??
« on: May 23, 2021, 08:45 PM »
Does anyone make a solid powerful floor drill press that has just an on-off switch and a little run out as is humanly possible? Or am I asking too much and need to look for old drill presses instead? I see digital displays variable speed electronic controlled motors etc on new models and I do not need that stuff nor want the headache of a machine that might at some point be obsolete because its controls are no longer available.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

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Offline CeeJay

  • Posts: 347
Re: drill press??
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2021, 08:50 PM »
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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2704
Re: drill press??
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2021, 10:18 PM »
Snip.
Or am I asking too much and need to look for old drill presses instead?
Your kind of woodwork may require a top-of-the-line drill press.

The bench-top drill press in my shop was purchased more or less when I began hobby woodworking...over 20 years ago, and any woodworking stuff bought during those days was as cheap as it could be. But not one single project that I've done over the years needed a better (or more precise) drill press...until recently. But for that one project, I was not going to buy a floor type drill press just to get the extra drilling capacity. I resolved that by detaching the drill press from its base, and mounting the body on a bench. Problem solved.

So to sum up, I would not spend money to get a fancy or high-end drill press in my shop. (Shop space is too precious for a bigger drill press, too.)

« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 10:20 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 188
Re: drill press??
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2021, 11:21 PM »
My benchtop drill press was cheap and sadly had so much run out I never used it after the first run. I contacted a machine shop to sort it out and they refused to even try. So 20+ years later I just want a soling machine with as little run out as possible, nothing fancy but I do prefer floor standing because I like my bench space for other stuff. I never seem to have enough but I can find a corner to shove a drill press into, and sometimes we just want for no better reason than to want.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8588
Re: Drill press??
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2021, 01:05 AM »
Well, if you're looking for the best of the best, then just purchase a Clausing. They're old school in that they don't offer digital readouts or any of the fluffy stuff but they are variable speed and are absolutely bullet proof. A 50 rpm speed on the low end and a 2000 rpm speed on the high end. That will pretty much encompass every one of your drilling needs.

https://clausing-industrial.com/drills/clausing-variable-speed-drill-presses/2272evs.html

A cheaper alternative is the Ellis drill press. Another nice drill press that may not have the well earned cache of the Clausing, but is still a variable speed drill press.

https://www.ellissaw.com/drill-press-9400/#description

Tough to top either of these options, although Delta did offer equivalents to these circa 1950-1970 and they can be had for reasonable $$.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 12:31 PM by Cheese »

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 562
    • In The Woodshop
Re: drill press??
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2021, 02:04 AM »
Does anyone make a solid powerful floor drill press that has just an on-off switch and a little run out as is humanly possible? Or am I asking too much and need to look for old drill presses instead? I see digital displays variable speed electronic controlled motors etc on new models and I do not need that stuff nor want the headache of a machine that might at some point be obsolete because its controls are no longer available.

For 25 years I used a Taiwanese-built floor standing drill press with 16 speeds and 3/4 h.p. It was on the lower-middle range back then, basically cheapish. It was used very frequently, and did a reasonable job.

As the years went by, I became slightly but increasingly critical of its ergonomics, the single speed I gravitated to (since it was a pain to adjust this area), and the low power (which was easy to stall with larger bits in hard wood). A couple of years ago I bit the bullet and splurged on a Nova Voyager on a Black Friday deal.

Now I am not trying to sell you on this -  okay, a little :)  -  but this is one amazing drill press. I very much doubt that all the doodads are needed, but I love the direct drive and the ability to quickly set the ideal speed for a particular drill bit, to set a very specific depth of cut (and that this can be used for repeat cuts), the excess of power, the ergonomics, the minimal run out ... I could go on and on.  I was concerned about the computer becoming obsolete at some stage, but reassured that this motor and computer have been around with us for a couple of decades already. I also have the Nova Saturn lathe, which is really the drill on its side. If the Voyager gives me 20 years, even 15 years, it will have paid for itself. I am 71 now, but expect it will be around when I am not. Resale value? Who cares?

I guess I am saying 'don't sell yourself short'. You may hate the drill but do not exclude others as an option.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on joinery, hand tools, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 496
Re: drill press??
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2021, 05:30 AM »
TLDR:

If you want super precision, but do not need power, go for a simple but sturdy drill press with an "open" design using a separate motor assembly. Then plan on re-doing/replacing the precision-critical pieces either yourself or asking your local machinist.

That way you can get very high precision at reasonable cost.

Other /more for hobby use/ option is to get a sturdy and simple drill stand, improve it as/if needed by replacing the pole and having he guide bushed and put in a good drill in. That way you can get extremely precise for very little $.

I use this with a Protool/Narex drill:


And have no precision issues yet get repeatable "blind" hole position within 0.2 mm (0.01") or so.


--------------------
If you want longevity - the 50+ years style longevity so you better be in your 20s ... then you need to go industrial where the mechanical assembly is essentially separate from the motor assembly.

BUT.
That is more a fetish for woodworking use as prices go in the 10k+ $ range and you are better off getting an old machine as metal shops are disposing of non-CNC manufacturing tools they kept as a backup.

The bulk of the cost of such industrial drill presses is in the stability of the assembly and the high forces it can cope with without the whole assembly twisting. The no-pressure precision is not necessarily higher compared to a bench top press.

In those cases the assembly is so expensive and indestructible in normal use that it makes sense for the engine unit being standalone and the chuck system the same. It is assumed the engine unit will be worn out couple times over the economical life of the machine while the original manufacturer may be long gone.


Lastly, such machines are often made-to-measure and the bulk of the cost comes from per-order manufacturing with included design assessment etc. The manufacturers have a couple standard strength classes and the precision is "configurable" depending on the need (and budget).
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Offline Steve1

  • Posts: 91
Re: drill press??
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2021, 07:51 AM »
I see digital displays variable speed electronic controlled motors etc on new models and I do not need that stuff.....

You sure you don't need it?   3/6" twist drill or 4" hole saw are going to want vastly different speeds.

Sure, you can do speed control via moving belts on pulleys, but that is such a pain.    Electronic control is so much easier.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 496
Re: drill press??
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2021, 09:16 AM »
You sure you don't need it?   3/6" twist drill or 4" hole saw are going to want vastly different speeds.

Sure, you can do speed control via moving belts on pulleys, but that is such a pain.    Electronic control is so much easier.
This!

That was why I went with power-drill-in-a-stand over the cheaper belt-driven presses. You want torque for the hole saw scenario and you want speed for the small holes.
That and the easy upgradability. Should there ever be the need, I can just put in bushings and use a precision-made pole in place of the stock one.

Changing belts is fine for manufacturing, but is a total pain in small shop use. To a point we have ours just set on the lowest speed. The 15 mins belt change is not worth the 10 minutes we *do* lose when making a few small holes on it.
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2704
Re: drill press??
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2021, 09:39 AM »
Snip.

Changing belts is fine for manufacturing, but is a total pain in small shop use. To a point we have ours just set on the lowest speed. The 15 mins belt change is not worth the 10 minutes we *do* lose when making a few small holes on it.

How often do you guys change the speed? But I agree if it is electronic, one would probably change it more often.

I know there're drill speed charts that some people follow to the dot, but I have never done that. From a practical point of view, is that really necessary for woodworkers (who are not machinists)? I change mine may be once every few years, and have not observed ANY negative effects on my cheap, old drill press or on the quality of holes. I never had a case where a hole bored were too loose for a rod or dowel -- one possible sign of run-out.

I believe I set the speed to the second lowest (?), if not, the third lowest at all times, and use it with twist bits, Fornster bits, etc. That's also how the two woodworking schools (one for adults, one for high school kids) I know have set theirs.

Last week, I did have to change the speed on my DP (for using a 1" tenon cutter), and it took under 1 minute because I had to read the pulley diagram on the machine (under 30 seconds if I had done that more often [tongue]).

Anyway, no matter how great a DP is, make sure you get a quality set of drill bits to match it.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 09:42 AM by ChuckM »

Offline twistsol

  • Posts: 15
    • The Sawdustzone
Re: drill press??
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2021, 09:50 AM »
If you have the space for it, look for an old shopsmith. They can be had for a couple hundred dollars and the ones with the two bearing quill have almost no runout.

The drill press is actually one of the best features, variable speed via a dial although the low end is a bit high at 700 rpm. Parts are still available after 70 years, the double columns keep the table from rotating out of position and the table is large by drill press standards.

As a bonus you get a decent 16" lathe, 12" disc sander, and a marginal table saw.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 496
Re: drill press??
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2021, 10:43 AM »
How often do you guys change the speed? But I agree if it is electronic, one would probably change it more often.

I know there're drill speed charts that some people follow to the dot, but I have never done that. From a practical point of view, is that really necessary for woodworkers (who are not machinists)? I change mine may be once every few years, and have not observed ANY negative effects on my cheap, old drill press or on the quality of holes. I never had a case where a hole bored were too loose for a rod or dowel -- one possible sign of run-out.

I believe I set the speed to the second lowest (?), if not, the third lowest at all times, and use it with twist bits, Fornster bits, etc. That's also how the two woodworking schools (one for adults, one for high school kids) I know have set theirs.

Last week, I did have to change the speed on my DP (for using a 1" tenon cutter), and it took under 1 minute because I had to read the pulley diagram on the machine (under 30 seconds if I had done that more often [tongue]).

Anyway, no matter how great a DP is, make sure you get a quality set of drill bits to match it.
On the DP we have - literally, never.
It was set to the lowest speed (about 400 rpm) when we got it 5 yrs ago and was never changed since. When you are making a couple tens of holes it is just not worth the hassle.

But you do have a point - it is a very old 3-phase machine from the 60s. Changing the speed requires more fiddling than on a new one as it does not have a quick-change setup. One has to un-tension the assembly, move the belt, correctly re-tension. In multiple-people shared shop that would not be fun making sure everyone would know how to do that correctly. So the current "lazy to change speed" situation actually works well for us.


On the drill stand mentioned, pretty much always.
It is just a trigger-dial + simple gearbox switch.

Even changing gears is quite common to get the higher 3000 rpm speed for metal, really small holes and even using it for some "routing" with a grinding bit in.

Then /hail TTS/ using the low gearbox speed with dial set to get about 100 rpm or so is popular for hole saw use. The drill struggles a bit and ends up "pulsing" as the electronics detects the speed drops. But is still great to avoid melting the cut when working with plastics etc.
If it was a DP without an easy/electronic speed change, we would likely stick to an even lower 200 rpm fixed speed to complement the 400 rpm one the old DP as that one does not have such a low setting.

Ref "speed charts", I had it as a task to print and hang one since I installed the drill stand in the shop ... never got around to it.  [embarassed]
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 10:46 AM by mino »
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2128
Re: drill press??
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2021, 10:48 AM »
My most often used DP is 30+ years old and it has never taken more than 2 minutes to change the belt on the step pulleys to a different speed. It is not difficult at all but not precise in that you have to choose between the 12 available speeds and many times end up with a lower speed than you would like to be working at.

I do plan to upgrade to the NOVA Voyager DP some day, hopefully in the next year. I have had the NOVA DVR XP lathe for over 10 years with no problems. I also upgraded my bandsaw to use the same type motor from Striatech who makes the motor in the Voyager and NOVA lathes. The bandsaw has been fantastic since making that change and worth every penny to replace the stock motor.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8588
Re: Drill press??
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2021, 12:00 PM »
I actually agree with Derek that the Nova Voyager (Nova Vulcan for metal working) is the best deal out there. If I were to replace my 40 year old Delta I'd order up a Vulcan. You get a lot of bang for your buck.

https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/vulcan/

Another no-frills option if you don't want electronics on a drill press is an older Powermatic 1200 HD. They offered a variable speed model using the Reeves drive system. They also offered a foot switch for reversing the drill when tapping threads.  [cool]

Delta and Rockwell also offered variable speed Reeves drive drill presses from the 60's through the 90's that you could probably pick up for chump change. Unless, you really feel the need to purchase that $5500 Clausing. [smile]
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 12:42 PM by Cheese »

Online rvieceli

  • Posts: 1451
Re: drill press??
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2021, 01:39 PM »
@Cheese

I routinely see 20 inch Clausings go for under 1500 to 2000 on a lot of auction sites.

Arboga and Solberga also make wonderful drill presses. All gear driven. They come up for auction as well, just not all the time.

https://exactmachinetoolsales.com/arboga-machine-tools/

https://www.normanmachinetool.com/?post_type=product&side_search=true&prod_cond=&prod_type=&product_cat=drills&product_brand=solberga

Ron

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2128
Re: drill press??
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2021, 03:27 PM »
Vulcan is NLA as far as I can see unfortunately. There are however only a few parts that differ from the Voyager. Not cheap of course but they may be available from NOVA. These parts upgrade the quill to a #3MT/ER32 collet from the standard #2MT on the Voyager. That and a firmware upgrade gets you most of the way to a Vulcan which expands the settings for drilling and includes some milling operations plus the better quill with less runout.

-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline mike_aa

  • Posts: 1225
Re: Drill press??
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2021, 03:30 PM »
I actually agree with Derek that the Nova Voyager (Nova Vulcan for metal working) is the best deal out there. If I were to replace my 40 year old Delta I'd order up a Vulcan. You get a lot of bang for your buck.

https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/vulcan/

@Cheese, I was intrigued by the Vulcan Model since it looked like it had the ability to do light milling tasks.  I wouldn't need that function often, but for the occasional hobby use in brass or aluminum it would have been helpful.  Alas, it now appears to be discontinued.

Mike A.

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 188
Re: drill press??
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2021, 09:25 PM »
Thanks, everyone. I am not sold on any drill press yet. I haven't actually used a drill press in over 30 years. It would make some drilling easier and more accurate than by hand but so far it hasn't been an issue and I wonder if it actually makes sense for me to chase one. I might be patient and see what pops up used. I am apparently in no big rush.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Cypren

  • Posts: 139
Re: drill press??
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2021, 09:32 PM »
Vulcan is NLA as far as I can see unfortunately. There are however only a few parts that differ from the Voyager. Not cheap of course but they may be available from NOVA. These parts upgrade the quill to a #3MT/ER32 collet from the standard #2MT on the Voyager. That and a firmware upgrade gets you most of the way to a Vulcan which expands the settings for drilling and includes some milling operations plus the better quill with less runout.


If I remember correctly, the Vulcan also had double-row V-groove bearings in the spindle that were rated for higher sideways thrust load, which is rather important for milling operations.

I thought about picking up a Vulcan when the few engineering sample units they produced were being sold off through eBay for $1300. At the time, decided it was too risky if the model was being killed off before full production and didn’t take the chance. A year and a half later, I bought a Voyager for $1700 and was kicking myself the whole time for passing up the Vulcan.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2704
Re: drill press??
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2021, 10:38 PM »
Thanks, everyone. I am not sold on any drill press yet. I haven't actually used a drill press in over 30 years. It would make some drilling easier and more accurate than by hand but so far it hasn't been an issue and I wonder if it actually makes sense for me to chase one. I might be patient and see what pops up used. I am apparently in no big rush.
Although I don't see how a top-end drill press will improve my work, I think a drill press is an essential piece of machinery in a woodworking shop.  Angled drilling, for instance, is tough to do with accuracy using a drill -- corded or cordless. Even harder is compound angled drilling, humanely impossible to do so consistently freehand.

Another example for which a DP is indispensable is when drilling to exact depth -- try boring a hole for a magnet to be glued flush with the surface using just a drill. Or repetitive drilling on identical positions among pieces.

Of course, if you don't do any drilling that is considered challenging, a DP may not be a priority.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 10:41 PM by ChuckM »

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8588
Re: drill press??
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2021, 10:53 PM »
Thanks, everyone. I am not sold on any drill press yet. I haven't actually used a drill press in over 30 years.

Well from my perspective, if you haven't used a drill press in 30 years why would you think you need to purchase a drill press?  So I'd suggest you abandon the drill press acquisition thing and just move forward...jeeez, that's just mental masturbation that's confusing your thought process.

Offline jeffinsgf

  • Retailer
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  • Posts: 394
Re: drill press??
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2021, 11:03 PM »
Thanks, everyone. I am not sold on any drill press yet. I haven't actually used a drill press in over 30 years. It would make some drilling easier and more accurate than by hand but so far it hasn't been an issue and I wonder if it actually makes sense for me to chase one. I might be patient and see what pops up used. I am apparently in no big rush.

Here's mine. It's a 1950 14" Delta with a production table. I paid $100 for it, spent 3 weekends tearing it down, cleaning it up and putting it back together. It is exactly what you asked for in your opening post. Insanely simple and satisfyingly precise. Facebook Marketplace and Craigs List are your friends.


Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8588
Re: drill press??
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2021, 11:10 PM »
How often do you guys change the speed? But I agree if it is electronic, one would probably change it more often.

Chuck...believe it or not, for every drill press session I have, I'll change the belts 2-3 times. Nothing's worse than drilling 1/8" diameter holes at 600 rpm. It's slow going and the drill bit never really cuts...it just beavers out the hole. Broken drill bits are usually the result.

My 2 favorite mantras are...change the blade in the track saw and change the speed of the drill press.  [big grin]
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 11:12 PM by Cheese »

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8588
Re: drill press??
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2021, 11:40 PM »
@Cheese

I routinely see 20 inch Clausings go for under 1500 to 2000 on a lot of auction sites.

Arboga and Solberga also make wonderful drill presses. All gear driven. They come up for auction as well, just not all the time.

https://exactmachinetoolsales.com/arboga-machine-tools/

https://www.normanmachinetool.com/?post_type=product&side_search=true&prod_cond=&prod_type=&product_cat=drills&product_brand=solberga

Ron

Thanks Ron for the info...I get that 30 year old Clausings are going for chump change, although I'm surprised.  [big grin]  It's interesting that we're now up against a new tech vs old tech issue. The Clausing weighs over 600 pounds, the Voyager weighs 200 pounds. Both of those drill presses have so many things going for them it's a really tough decision.

The Clausing along with the Bridgeport and the Hardinge lathe is what propelled the American industrial community for the last 50-70 years. All three are US machining icons. Very similar to what the Mazak CNC is to today's machine processing.

Also thanks for the links to the Arboga and Solberga websites, I'm unfamiliar with them...will read up and check them out.  [big grin] [big grin]

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2704
Re: drill press??
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2021, 11:47 PM »
How often do you guys change the speed? But I agree if it is electronic, one would probably change it more often.

Chuck...believe it or not, for every drill press session I have, I'll change the belts 2-3 times. Nothing's worse than drilling 1/8" diameter holes at 600 rpm. It's slow going and the drill bit never really cuts...it just beavers out the hole. Broken drill bits are usually the result.

My 2 favorite mantras are...change the blade in the track saw and change the speed of the drill press.  [big grin]

Every session? [eek]
You need a self-adjust variable speed DP! That's one that would adjust its own speed without human intervention.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 990
Re: drill press??
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2021, 04:12 AM »

Chuck...believe it or not, for every drill press session I have, I'll change the belts 2-3 times. Nothing's worse than drilling 1/8" diameter holes at 600 rpm. It's slow going and the drill bit never really cuts...it just beavers out the hole. Broken drill bits are usually the result.

My 2 favorite mantras are...change the blade in the track saw and change the speed of the drill press.  [big grin]

Make that the jig saw too.  [wink]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Cypren

  • Posts: 139
Re: drill press??
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2021, 06:59 AM »
Chuck...believe it or not, for every drill press session I have, I'll change the belts 2-3 times. Nothing's worse than drilling 1/8" diameter holes at 600 rpm. It's slow going and the drill bit never really cuts...it just beavers out the hole. Broken drill bits are usually the result.
This has been my favorite feature of the Voyager by far: I’m never tempted to forego a speed change and just try to wing it because of the hassle of switching belts. Using the correct speed for the drill bit and the material is as simple as a few clicks.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2128
Re: drill press??
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2021, 07:40 AM »
Chuck...believe it or not, for every drill press session I have, I'll change the belts 2-3 times. Nothing's worse than drilling 1/8" diameter holes at 600 rpm. It's slow going and the drill bit never really cuts...it just beavers out the hole. Broken drill bits are usually the result.
This has been my favorite feature of the Voyager by far: I’m never tempted to forego a speed change and just try to wing it because of the hassle of switching belts. Using the correct speed for the drill bit and the material is as simple as a few clicks.

I will say the same for the DVR motor on my bandsaw. I now have the ability to change the speed based on what type of cut I am making and the material. So if resawing or cutting thick stock for a bowl blank I can use 4000 FPM, if doing lighter work I can choose 2000 FPM, or anywhere in between. If cutting plastics or aluminum there are presets for those materials too, and of course any custom speed you wish to set. All by the push of the buttons on the controller.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 188
Re: drill press??
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2021, 08:40 AM »
I have been drilling headstocks for tuning machines on mandolins. I think Cheese nailed it. Pass by and I'll just get a jig for tuning machines. Much cheaper in the long run. The only other use I would have for it is sanding but an oscillating spindle sander would be a much more useful tool to me. Sometimes we get caught up in that mental masturbation Cheese mentioned. I'm over it now. Thanks!
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 415
Re: drill press??
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2021, 08:52 AM »
Machine shop drill presses tend to be very accurate. 

This one, used sells for $2,499.00 and weighs 4,100 pounds. 


But personally I would try to find a jig that will accomplish the required accuracy.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 496
Re: drill press??
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2021, 09:05 AM »
This one, used sells for $2,499.00 and weighs 4,100 pounds. 
IMG
Sorry, but that is one truly hilarious photo!

The black band pretending to be "holding" on to the pallet is priceless.

Especially as someone meant it seriously judging how it is overextended already.
[big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

/joke aside/
Getting something like this IS a good idea if one owns his shop building with a heavy-load concrete floor and knows it will have long term use. The only issue with these behemoths is their movement. As long as none is planned, they are a great value.
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Packard

  • Posts: 415
Re: drill press??
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2021, 12:58 PM »
We have three machine shop grade industrial drill presses in our tool room.  We bought them all used from used machinery brokers and drill presses are incredibly cheap from these outfits.  I doubt we paid more than $250.00 for each one. 

But...

But these probably weigh 200 pounds or more each.  So you might need a couple of friends to move these.  Stairs would scare me. 

But cheap and solidly built.  Many of these brokers don't even list them as they have so many.  A phone call works best.

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 188
Re: drill press??
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2021, 10:07 PM »
Ironically enough I have actually considered a mini lathe mill. What I would use it for is smaller work but then I wonder what else I could do if I had the drill press. I just have a lot of thinking to do to decide what my future needs will be.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2128
Re: drill press??
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2021, 05:07 AM »
Unfortunately for those who were drooling over the Vulcan metalworking drill press it is dead and there are no plans to bring it back to life according to an email I received yesterday.

That is disappointing but that's the decision NOVA has made for whatever reason. I searched yesterday for a Vulcan new or used and turned up nothing. Even a voyager is difficult to find in stock now. Vendors are taking orders with estimated December 2021 delivery dates from what I have seen. They'll gladly take your money today for a drill press delivered a minimum of 6 months from now.   [unsure]

So if I find a Voyager in stock now I am going to buy it now. I've been on the fence for this DP for 2 years, always saying I'll wait another month or two or finding some excuse to put it off. Before the Voyager is NLA I aim to have one. Based on my 10 year history with their lathe and 2 years with the bandsaw motor I feel there is little risk in the DVR technology.

Here is the email I received yesterday from NOVA.

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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline mino

  • Posts: 496
Re: drill press??
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2021, 05:41 AM »
That is disappointing but that's the decision NOVA has made for whatever reason.
...
With metal manufacturing basically converted to CNCs today, the market is flooded with old high end presses available for those small shops that cannot afford a proper CNC mill.
The market likely got too small and the occasional non-metalwork customers like us cannot make up for the needed volume.

I see this also in Europe.
You can still get high-end DPs for manufacturing use in the $5k+ range and you can get cheapo ones for $500 or so. But the mid range is disappearing fast. Everyone just goes for used industrial machines at those price ranges. Same for as non-CNC mills a decade ago.

I think we need to wait a decade and the Chinese and Indians will pick up the small shop market hole and fill it up. For better or worse.
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Offline Imemiter

  • Posts: 198
Re: drill press??
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2021, 07:52 AM »
I have been drilling headstocks for tuning machines on mandolins. I think Cheese nailed it. Pass by and I'll just get a jig for tuning machines. Much cheaper in the long run. The only other use I would have for it is sanding but an oscillating spindle sander would be a much more useful tool to me. Sometimes we get caught up in that mental masturbation Cheese mentioned. I'm over it now. Thanks!

I have one of those Shop Fox drill presses that has an oscillating sander function. The swap over to sanding mode isn't too bad and the dust collection works well. It's no mill but I've loved having it around for making plugs and jigs.

I offered to make the wife a jig for drilling out fiddle pegs, but she prefers free-handing with her 12v Bosch. Almost offered her my CSX last time but I want to hang onto it awhile longer.  [big grin]

I've got a few mandolins. A Moon and a Mowry are my favorites. I really should play them more often (or sell one and get a Nova...) Post a picture of yours sometime!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 08:12 AM by Imemiter »
CSX T18+3 TID18 HKC55 OSC18 OS400 OF1010 LR32 DF700 RAS115 DTS400 ETC125 CTSys CTMidi CT-VA

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 415
Re: drill press??
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2021, 08:44 AM »
Stu-Mac makes a bunch of drilling jigs for this purpose.  If they don't have what you want, then a machine shop can make one for you.  Or make the jig from hardwood and install hardened steel bushings.

McMaster-Carr has almost any size you could want.  If I recall correctly the fiddle only would require 4 holes.  They are probably symmetrical on both sides so only two bushings would be required.

Or go on one of the fiddle building sites and ask there.

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/338554-drilling-string-holes-in-pegs/

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8588
Re: Drill press?
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2021, 10:39 AM »
Unfortunately for those who were drooling over the Vulcan metalworking drill press it is dead and there are no plans to bring it back to life according to an email I received yesterday.

Thanks @Bob D.  for posting that reply from NOVA. That's really disappointing... [sad] [sad]  Guess I'll have to go the Ellis route or the used Clausing route.


Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8588
Re: Drill press?
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2021, 11:34 AM »
 [big grin]...Road Trip... [big grin]

Interesting Ron, it certainly starts out cheap enough. [jawdrop]

But then again, with 10% sales tax & an 18% commission, stuff adds up in a hurry.  What do you predict this one will go for?

Online rvieceli

  • Posts: 1451
Re: drill press??
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2021, 11:47 AM »
It’s hard to say. Looks to be good in good shape. Probably in the 1500 to 1750 range. There won’t be a lot of action on stuff until the final day.

I’ve dealt with this auction house before and got some stuff for my son.

Ron

Online rvieceli

  • Posts: 1451
Re: drill press??
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2021, 11:49 AM »
bidspotter.com is an interesting site. Sort of a clearing house for several industrial auction houses.

You can search across the entire platform, so you get multiple auctions in a search.

Ron

Online rvieceli

  • Posts: 1451
Re: drill press??
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2021, 12:37 PM »
All this drill press talk reminded me I needed to do a little inspection/maintenance on mine.  [big grin]

Check out the Reeves drive and check the gear oil in the gear box.



Ron

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8588
Re: Drill press?
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2021, 12:58 PM »
Ron is that an Electro Mechano?

What maintenance needs to be performed on the Reeves drive?

Online rvieceli

  • Posts: 1451
Re: drill press??
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2021, 01:25 PM »
It is an Electro Mechano 601J. Bench top with a big production base. Love it. Although I wouldn’t mind having an 801 floor model.  [wink] I rarely see these models anymore. The little precision presses are more common.

The Reeves just needs to check the tension and grease the cam that changes the speed.

The gear box under the front pulley needs to be checked for gear oil levels.

Ron

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8588
Re: Drill press?
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2021, 10:37 PM »
The gear box under the front pulley needs to be checked for gear oil levels.

So is it like a British motorcycle that weeps incessantly, or does it just need to be topped off?

« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 11:14 AM by Cheese »

Online rvieceli

  • Posts: 1451
Re: Drill press?
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2021, 05:17 AM »
The gear box under the front pulley needs to be checked for gear oil levels.

So is it like a British motorcycle that wheeps incessantly, or does it just need to be topped off?

Yes and yes.

There's a seal at the bottom of the gear box that the drive shaft for the quill goes through that weeps ever so slightly. To replace it requires more dis-asembly than I want to do since it works perfectly. I'm also not convinced that a new one wouldn't do the same thing,

Ron

Offline mino

  • Posts: 496
Re: Drill press?
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2021, 05:54 AM »
Yes and yes.

There's a seal at the bottom of the gear box that the drive shaft for the quill goes through that weeps ever so slightly. To replace it requires more dis-asembly than I want to do since it works perfectly. I'm also not convinced that a new one wouldn't do the same thing,

Ron
From what I understood. The slight weeping seals like this was often a "feature" of these machine designs. The accumulating oil on the shaft can be wiped easily and allows the shaft as well as the contact surface of the seal to be kept clean from dust with very little effort.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 02:09 PM by mino »
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8588
Re: Drill press?
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2021, 11:13 AM »
Yes and yes.

There's a seal at the bottom of the gear box that the drive shaft for the quill goes through that weeps ever so slightly. To replace it requires more dis-asembly than I want to do since it works perfectly. I'm also not convinced that a new one wouldn't do the same thing,

Ron, you're probably right...installing a new o'ring will probably still allow it to leak. I had the same issue on the tachometer drive cable and the only solution was for me to machine the housing so I could install a double lip seal, which I did...hasn't leaked in years.  [big grin]


From what I understood. The slight weeping seals like this was often a "feature" of these machine designs. The accumulating oil on the shaft can be wiped easily and allows the shaft as well as the contact surface of the seal to be kept clean from dust with very little effort.



Now that's funny...spoken like a true British motorcycle manufacturer.  [big grin]
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 11:19 AM by Cheese »

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2128
Re: drill press??
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2021, 12:12 PM »
"From what I understood. The slight weeping seals like this was often a "feature" of these machine designs. The accumulating oil on the shaft can be wiped easily and allows the shaft as well as the contact surface of the seal to be kept clean from dust with very little effort."

Why is it this is looked upon with reverence when it's a Brit Bike, but when an older Harley drips oil from the chain oiler (by design) it a POC ?  [big grin]

I turned mine off on my 1980 Low Rider but it was there if you needed it and a hold over from some of their early bikes.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online rvieceli

  • Posts: 1451
Re: drill press??
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2021, 12:30 PM »
A lifetime ago I was an owner/operator contracted to Mayflower Transit, the moving company. When we bought the Chevy road tractor it had a 238 Detroit Diesel inline 6 engine. As we picked it up, the head mechanic came out and said " If it doesn't leak oil, bring it back and we'll fix it!

Was fine when running down the road but when you let it idle, there was a slight oil drip.

Ron

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2128
Re: drill press??
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2021, 04:09 PM »
"If it doesn't leak oil, bring it back and we'll fix it!"

LOL  [big grin]
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2128
Re: drill press??
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2021, 10:02 AM »
Well, supposedly it's on the truck and heading my way.

Should be here some time next week. Couldn't find a
Vulcan as I said so had to settle for the Voyager.

Still disappointed the parts to perform the upgrade are not
available. But maybe I will come across them someday.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8588
Re: Drill press?
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2021, 11:11 AM »
Still disappointed the parts to perform the upgrade are not
available. But maybe I will come across them someday.

Ya, I'm with you on this one.  [sad]

Interestingly enough, NOVA lists the same headstock assembly for both versions...#8338055. However, they list different spindle tapers, MT3 for Vulcan & MT2 for Voyager, but the spindles are part of the headstock assembly.  [huh]  Maybe just a misprint in the catalog?

At any rate, the drill press table is larger on the Voyager by about 2" in each direction.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2128
Re: drill press??
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2021, 12:01 PM »
Yes, the only other piece is the autofeed.

Even if I had no interest in metalwork I would want the #3 MT and ability to use a collet chuck over the #2.
From what I have heard the bearings are more robust on the Vulcan and who wouldn't want that?

Just make one model with the better headstock assembly and offer a choice of table when ordering. There
are so few part differences I don't understand why they dropped this.

Added link to this 3 part video series but it's moot since the parts are no longer available.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 01:46 PM by Bob D. »
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8588
Re: Drill press?
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2021, 10:18 AM »

Just make one model with the better headstock assembly and offer a choice of table when ordering. There
are so few part differences I don't understand why they dropped this.

Added link to this 3 part video series but it's moot since the parts are no longer available.



Thanks for posting that Bob...one mystery solved, the head stock assembly IS different so the part numbers should be different.  [tongue]

That's a HUGE difference in bearing choice with the substitution of angular contact ball bearings for the standard ball bearings. That alone could account for the 4X reduction in runout as angular contact bearings are usually more precise because of their nature.

And as you mentioned in an earlier post, who wouldn't want less runout on a drill press?

Now comes the difficult items to reproduce, the quill with MT3 taper and the ER32 collet system.  [crying] [mad]

Like you, I can't imagine why they'd discontinue the Vulcan option when so few extra parts are involved. I'd imagine there'd be many wood workers that would want the extra precision, the extra stiffness and the ability to use MT3 chucks.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 10:23 AM by Cheese »

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2128
Re: drill press??
« Reply #56 on: May 30, 2021, 03:26 PM »
Well, that was unexpected. I ordered the accessory fence when I bought the Voyager. The fence showed up today (Sunday no less) but the DP itself is still at least 10 days out.

It is en route, I got a message from Estes Express saying it should arrive in North Jersey on the 4th or 5th and to expect a call to coordinate delivery some time after that.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 188
Re: drill press??
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2021, 12:21 PM »
What do you all think about the Nova Viking benchtop drill press? Looking at my needs and getting sucked into the Nova thing with all the posts I decided I really only need a benchtop drill press. I prefer to keep the top of the benches clean but I currently have that craftsman benchtop on the benchtop! Doh, so I wouldn't lose any space that isn't currently used. The crappy one I have now would be gone. So in comes benchtop searches. I like the Jet but the Nova certainly has a following and seems well made. Thanks for any additional comments and thanks to whoever pointed this out to me earlier.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2128
Re: drill press??
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2021, 03:33 PM »
Can't speak to the Viking as I have not seen it in person but it would be worth a hard look I think.

Compared to the Voyager it is a lot less money. There is a floor model of the Viking if you weren't aware.

Viking has most of the features of the Voyager, but also has a laser guide and a work light built in which
the Voyager that costs ~$800US more than the Viking does not have.

Auto stop on set depth, auto start, 1HP direct drive and no belts for speed changes. It is an upgrade over a belt drive DP.

The Voyager is big. It will take up some  floor space. For me it is about twice as much as my old Craftsman 15-1/2" DP.
The table at 16 x 16 inches is about 8 inches wider than my old DP. The base is ~17"x22". The table and the base on the Viking floor model appear to be smaller. And for the benchtop model of course that's a different animal.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 03:41 PM by Bob D. »
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2128
Re: drill press??
« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2021, 10:19 PM »
Since the Clausing DP was brought up here and there was some interest expressed in them I thought I would mention that a Clausing Model 1764 in good condition that just popped up on Craigslist in Linden, NJ a couple days ago. I know nothing about it or the seller just happened upon the ad. The photos look like it's been refurbished and ready to go to work.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline 08G8V8

  • Posts: 134
Re: drill press??
« Reply #60 on: June 14, 2021, 10:21 AM »
What do you all think about the Nova Viking benchtop drill press? Looking at my needs and getting sucked into the Nova thing with all the posts I decided I really only need a benchtop drill press. I prefer to keep the top of the benches clean but I currently have that craftsman benchtop on the benchtop! Doh, so I wouldn't lose any space that isn't currently used. The crappy one I have now would be gone. So in comes benchtop searches. I like the Jet but the Nova certainly has a following and seems well made. Thanks for any additional comments and thanks to whoever pointed this out to me earlier.
I have the Nova Viking, and really like it, but it is still very big and tall compared to a typical “benchtop” drill press.  Putting this on a normal height benchtop will put the chuck much higher than where the Voyager chuck is. I think this is the reason they came out with the Viking in a floor standing model.


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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5228
Re: drill press??
« Reply #61 on: June 14, 2021, 11:03 AM »
The post/column can be shortened.

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 188
Re: drill press??
« Reply #62 on: June 14, 2021, 10:01 PM »
I am giving this little benchtop unit some serious consideration. Less expensive and does all I need it or would like it to. For my day job I work with similar motors and drives and have found them to be very reliable. I work on industrial equipment in less than ideal enviroments. Hot oily, abusive operators poor maintenance, etc.

If one was available locally I would already have it but the shortage is making it easier for me to put it off a bit longer.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 188
Re: drill press??
« Reply #63 on: Today at 09:24 AM »
I have been wondering about these mortising presses. For what I am doing I do not need a lot of swing or travel. How well, do they work as a very small drill press? I have never used one.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.