Author Topic: Domino Killer  (Read 2175 times)

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Offline afish

  • Posts: 736
Domino Killer
« on: November 09, 2021, 07:45 AM »
Its no Domino killer but I just ran across this and haven't seen anything posted on here about it and thought some might find it interesting.


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Offline Packard

  • Posts: 851
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2021, 08:26 AM »
Not as slow as my Beadlock, but slower than the Domino.  If it is priced right, there is probably a market for this item. 

The deadlock jig is just $90.00.  But tedious to use as each joint requires that I drill the equivalent of 10 holes.  I can buy beadlock stock or make my own with their special router bit.

The Domino costs just over $1,000.00.

This device would have to cost about $300.00 to make sense to me. And I would have to have the right router in my inventory. Otherwise, I would spring for the much faster Festool machine. 

For the occasional user, the deadlock probably makes sense.  I have certainly used it.  It makes strong floating tenons.

Conventional biscuits don't do well in racking strength, but do quite well in shear.  So for many applications they work very well. 


Offline afish

  • Posts: 736
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2021, 08:53 AM »
looks like they listened to you.  250 here.  The ebay link showed 250 or 200 for US but was out of stock.  I didnt look to see if that other was US or not but for 200 US its pretty well priced, looks like it uses makita or dewalt trim router corded or cordless. So that should cover most people.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3019
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2021, 09:30 AM »
I think I've seen the wooden version of the Domino joiner on YouTube. Can't remember if that one had an angle fence.

Without the speed, versatility and dust extraction of the DF500, none of these is a serious competition to Festool's proprietary machine. The use of a router to do floating tenons has been seen in other router jigs.

Offline GregorHochschild

  • Posts: 29
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2021, 09:56 AM »
This looks pretty nice! I have a Domino 500. It might still be an interesting addition if the jig partly replaces a DF700. 95% of my work is DF500 but there are sometime situation in which I would like more plunge depth and bigger slots. Bigger slots are easy by adjusting the jig (or the DF500 fence) but that the plunge depth of this jig? Any information on plunge depth with the right router bit?

Online squall_line

  • Posts: 1031
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2021, 10:14 AM »
One of the benefits to this machine would be the ability to get wider or deeper mortises with thinner bits, as you're not "wagging" the bit back and forth, but actually moving the whole thing and you're not limited by the total throw at any given angle.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3019
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2021, 10:22 AM »
This looks pretty nice! I have a Domino 500. It might still be an interesting addition if the jig partly replaces a DF700. 95% of my work is DF500 but there are sometime situation in which I would like more plunge depth and bigger slots. Bigger slots are easy by adjusting the jig (or the DF500 fence) but that the plunge depth of this jig? Any information on plunge depth with the right router bit?

Indeed, the DF500's plunge depth, not its width, is what limits its joinery capability even when one uses double or twin dominoes. To overcome that, in a recent project, I used a shop-made drilling jig (or one can buy a commercial guide for $10 to $15) to make the mortises as deep as my 8mm or 10mm drill bit would allow. For me, 99% of my work can be handled by the DF500.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 12:32 PM by ChuckS »

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3019
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2021, 08:22 PM »
This isn't the wooden version I saw, but someone made it based on plans available online. He did say that "I still prefer my horizontal slot mortiser and my panto router for mortise and tenon joinery."

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 831
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2021, 06:55 PM »
This isn't the wooden version I saw, but someone made it based on plans available online. He did say that "I still prefer my horizontal slot mortiser and my panto router for mortise and tenon joinery."

That looks like Trespa. Which is a brand name of a solid phenolic material. It is extremely dense and sadly brittle at the same time. It is hard to work with and stupidly heavy for this type of application.
You cannot drive a woodscrew into it, but it will take threads if you drill and tap it.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3019
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2021, 07:23 PM »
Never heard of this name. I thought it was laminate.

Google: Trespa® is a high pressure compact panel (HPL), based on thermosetting resins, homogeneously reinforced with wood based fibres and manufactured under high pressure and at high temperatures.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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  • Posts: 4504
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Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2021, 05:51 AM »
This is not a tool for the busy professional but may well allow those with more time on their hands (and a smaller tool budget) to get the odd floating tenon done.

My main concern, based on a hand held jig that I made years ago, is that holding the gadget in place whilst moving the router may be tricky. With the Domino the user only has to hold the machine in place and initiate the plunge. Adding the left and right movement of the motor section will lead to bish-ups.

Peter

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3019
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2021, 08:03 AM »
Snip. Adding the left and right movement of the motor section will lead to bish-ups.

Peter
Good point.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 831
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2021, 09:44 AM »
looks like they listened to you.  250 here.  The ebay link showed 250 or 200 for US but was out of stock.  I didnt look to see if that other was US or not but for 200 US its pretty well priced, looks like it uses makita or dewalt trim router corded or cordless. So that should cover most people.

With all of the fixturing that I see going on there it looks more like a hobbled version of a Multi-router rather than a hand-held domino.
In theory, you could do the same thing with an OF1010 and the angle attachment.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 239
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2021, 11:36 AM »
Not a 'domino killer', but a nice idea. It's basically a decent looking router jig, but that may be all someone needs for occasional use. The real issue is the price - If it was competing directly with the Domino it would be a bargain, but it's competing against biscuits and dowels and that's a tougher sell.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3019
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2021, 11:55 AM »
Snip. If it was competing directly with the Domino it would be a bargain, but it's competing against biscuits and dowels and that's a tougher sell.

Let's say price wasn't an issue, off my head, the router housing (it's what it basically is) is incapable of doing any of these in a meaningful manner:

- Reinforcing miters or bevel joints
- Any mid-shelving
- Repetitive cross or trim mortises
- Mortising without marking placement lines
- Any angles of mortising
- Intersecting-lines mortising
- Dustless mortising

The list can be longer if a seasoned Domino machine user sits down and works on it.

If the idea is just to have some fun with a trim router doing mortises, the jig will have some entertainment value.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2021, 12:01 PM by ChuckS »

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 239
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2021, 01:55 PM »
Exactly. It’s not competing with the Domino.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2430
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2021, 04:43 PM »
Let's say price wasn't an issue, off my head, the router housing (it's what it basically is) is incapable of doing any of these in a meaningful manner:
- Reinforcing miters or bevel joints
- Any mid-shelving
- Repetitive cross or trim mortises
- Mortising without marking placement lines
- Any angles of mortising
- Intersecting-lines mortising
- Dustless mortising
The list can be longer if a seasoned Domino machine user sits down and works on it.
If the idea is just to have some fun with a trim router doing mortises, the jig will have some entertainment value.
"- Any mid-shelving" - no different than domino, remove the fence and go.
The rest can be easily solved by user. On the up side you can cut wider range of sizes/depth of mortices  + dowels, something that Domino lacks. Generic spindle motor and cutters are also a plus. So comparison can go both ways.
But I agree, with above comments. It's competitors are higher end jigs like DowelMax and such. It is not a production machine.
I've seen dozens of "domino" like jigs over the years and this one is the best so far.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2021, 04:51 PM by Svar »

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 831
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2021, 06:56 PM »
Depth, yes, you are pretty limited with the DF500, but the width is totally unlimited. You just have to mark it out right.

Mid-panel, you are going to need some kind of clamped-on fence to stabilize it, since the "wobble" would be manual. With the DF500, you can literally do it from a pencil line. If you draw the line 10mm below the center of where you want it, you can align the bottom edge of the DF500 to that by hand.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3019
Re: Domino Killer
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2021, 07:42 PM »
Snip.
The rest can be easily solved by user.
Snip.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion as you didn't provide any details on how they could be solved in practice.

The jig as presented has no angled fence, no dust chute, no paddles (latch stops), and no options for accessories such as the trim stop and cross stop. I don't know how much time, effort and money an owner of such a jig would need to spend in order to get it to come close to a DF500 in features (not necessarily in precision and results). But as someone who has fabricated his share of jigs and fixtures, I do know that it won't be an easy task.

As for mid-shelving, it's not clear from the video what the mortising specification is after the fence is removed. We know, e.g., the cutter is 10mm from the base for the DF500, and we can do the 3/4" shelving with ease (for doing thinner stock, we may need to use a shim). 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2021, 07:59 PM by ChuckS »