Author Topic: Hand Miter Saw / Box  (Read 2048 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 10109
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Hand Miter Saw / Box
« on: October 16, 2022, 08:39 PM »
OK, so there is Stanley , Craftsman, Ulmia. For that type of miter box. Anyone use them? Anyone use them both? Are there others worth looking at somewhere in between on price?

Not really interested in used (unless like new) or restoring.

Seth

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Vtshopdog

  • Posts: 179
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2022, 09:12 PM »
 I bought a Nobex Champion (~$175?? can’t remember) about 5 years ago and have never been able to get consistent vertical cuts on anything thicker than 3/4”.  Blade seems to wander, have multiple blades and have fussed with all of them, same result.

It is handy at times and I do quite like it with the metal blade for Al & Cu but all in all would not purchase again. Everything wood I cut with it would be just fine with a HD $40 special.

Offline luvmytoolz

  • Posts: 278
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2022, 10:09 PM »
I've had a couple of them over the years but found them not very handy or superbly accurate enough to be worth using. Could have just been me though.

I do see them for sale on the woodwork forums occasionally, but it's mainly collectors buying them, so I don't think they're used so much nowadays.

Offline Bob D.

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 3038
    • My Cordless Workshop
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2022, 11:31 PM »
Aren't the Stanley and Craftsman the same animal with different color bits?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-22-in-Blade-x-8-in-D-Metal-Miter-Box/1000595431?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/STANLEY-20-800-Contractor-Grade-Clamping-Miter-Box/17241529?

Do they look as good quality as a vintage one?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225156463628?

Or this older version, maybe not as good quality as you'd like, but new in box.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/134224311396?

Lots of choices on eBay from Craftsman, Stanley, Miller Falls, and others. But you said you weren't interested in used.

« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 11:33 PM by Bob D. »
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 10109
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2022, 12:55 AM »
Aren't the Stanley and Craftsman the same animal with different color bits?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-22-in-Blade-x-8-in-D-Metal-Miter-Box/1000595431?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/STANLEY-20-800-Contractor-Grade-Clamping-Miter-Box/17241529?

Do they look as good quality as a vintage one?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225156463628?

Or this older version, maybe not as good quality as you'd like, but new in box.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/134224311396?

Lots of choices on eBay from Craftsman, Stanley, Miller Falls, and others. But you said you weren't interested in used.

     New condition used would be fine. But I don't want to deal with a fixer upper or one that may have an unknown problem.

    Yes, pretty sure new Stanley and Craftsman are the same since they are under the same company umbrella now.

Seth

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 10109
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2022, 01:01 AM »
     This has come up a few times over the years and today again. I needed to cut some pieces that were too small and risky for the Kapex.  Needed to take 1" off a 3" piece at a 45 angle.  Yes, "start with a longer piece". But that doesn't work to cut an existing piece of matching trim to reuse. It would also be nice for thin trim pieces. Want something better than my yellow plastic box. Although it is not too bad using a Japanese pull saw rather than the traditional Back saw. But accuracy is not super good.

   I had forgotten about Nobex, which is supposed to be good. But , no ............?

Seth

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 10109
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2022, 01:11 AM »
I will say also that it doesn't need to be the 'bow' saw type a back saw type would be fine too. As long as it is well guided,, accurate, and has settable angles.

Seth

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 10180
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2022, 09:46 AM »
I had a Millers Fall saw that I used for years before the motorized miter saws became common. It was nice and the posts used Oilite bushings so everything worked very smooth. I used the back saw for years and never had it sharpened, it just seemed to hold its edge forever. Actually, I wish I hadn't sold it. It'd be perfect for those small trim pieces.

Langdon was also another good mitre box...very similar to Millers Falls.

Offline Vtshopdog

  • Posts: 179
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2022, 10:02 AM »
I don't want to be too negative on the Nobex. The thinner and softer the wood the better the results.  Where it struggles is thicker, figured hardwood when grain alignment happens to be close to parallel with the blade and deflects it from vertical.  Had better luck with the fine crosscut blade than the higher end Japanese blade.  The miter stops are very accurate. The provided hold down clamp is fairly light duty and I tend to use 6" F clamps hooked over back of fence instead.

I have the Champion model which has 7" depth capacity - I suspect the less expensive model with 4" capacity might flex less due to better leverage on the blade tension mechanism. Bigger is not always better??


Online Packard

  • Posts: 1691
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2022, 12:48 PM »
In the mid-1970s, when I first dove into my picture framing business, I used a Stanley hand miter saw.  It had a reputation for accuracy, but it was still not accurate enough for use with pre-finished molding.  For that, we used a Lion Miter Trimmer.

After the miter was cut, I would use the miter trimmer to shave off a slice of wood at the miter.  That slice was so think that if you held it up to the light you could see through it. 

I really could not tell you how accurate the Stanley was, because I always trimmed after cutting the miter.  But is was supremely easy to use, mostly because of the length of the saw (probably around 20”) and the bearings that guided the saw.

I continued to use that professionally until I bought a dedicated miter (90 degrees only) sliding table saw.



Lion is out of business, undoubtedly because the cheap knock-offs were of good quality (though the replaceable blades are not to the same standard as Lion’s).

https://www.infinitytools.com/blog/2021/02/11/the-precision-miter-trimmer-saves-the-day/

Stanley is marketing a similar design now (very cheap).  I recall spending a little over $200.00 in the mid1970s equivalent to $1,140.00 dollars in 2022.  So clearly not of the same quality.

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 642
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2022, 10:04 AM »
The large mitrebox is a Millers Falls Langdon 74C. The 28” saw is original to it. It is a carpenters tool, really. I sold it some years ago …



The small box is a MF 15 1/2, which is great for moldings. I subsequently restored it completely and made the 16” saw …





These are hard to find now and quite costly.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on joinery, hand tools, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

Online Packard

  • Posts: 1691
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2022, 10:13 AM »
The death knell for those precision hand miter saws was that they cost more than the powered versions.

The long strokes possible with the original back saws made the cuts fast and easy.

I still don’t know the accuracy of those saws as I always followed the cuts with a “tuning” cut from the Lion miter trimmer.  The Lion trimmer used a cam to adjust the 45 degree cuts and once adjusted it would hold the adjustment and would never require any further attention.  It works like a shooting board, but is much easier to use.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4328
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2022, 12:29 PM »
If you're looking for precision, Lee Valley sells a miter trimmer new (but they're out of stock).
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Online Packard

  • Posts: 1691
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2022, 01:16 PM »
If you're looking for precision, Lee Valley sells a miter trimmer new (but they're out of stock).

That’s a Chinese knockoff of the Lion trimmer.  The quality of the knockoffs was quite good and that was Lion’s undoing.

I used to send my blades off to a sharpening service (I had two sets of blades).  They sent back sharpened blades, but not of Lion’s manufacture. The quality of the blades did not match the original blades.  After that, I engraved my name on the blade with instructions to return my original blades and not swap them out. 

Note the brass cam on the positive stop.  It was the nearly permanent setting on the angles.

Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 1266
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2022, 02:50 PM »
In the mid-1970s, when I first dove into my picture framing business, I used a Stanley hand miter saw.  It had a reputation for accuracy, but it was still not accurate enough for use with pre-finished molding.  For that, we used a Lion Miter Trimmer.

After the miter was cut, I would use the miter trimmer to shave off a slice of wood at the miter.  That slice was so think that if you held it up to the light you could see through it. 

I really could not tell you how accurate the Stanley was, because I always trimmed after cutting the miter.  But is was supremely easy to use, mostly because of the length of the saw (probably around 20”) and the bearings that guided the saw.

I continued to use that professionally until I bought a dedicated miter (90 degrees only) sliding table saw.



Lion is out of business, undoubtedly because the cheap knock-offs were of good quality (though the replaceable blades are not to the same standard as Lion’s).

https://www.infinitytools.com/blog/2021/02/11/the-precision-miter-trimmer-saves-the-day/

Stanley is marketing a similar design now (very cheap).  I recall spending a little over $200.00 in the mid1970s equivalent to $1,140.00 dollars in 2022.  So clearly not of the same quality.

In the mid 1970s I started out with a Stanley 60 just like the one above. I upgraded to a Millers Falls 74C a few years later. I installed a lot of trim over the years with those miter saws. A few years ago I gave the Stanley to our town water department. I still have the Millers Falls, although it has been in storage for about 30 years. I just got it out to take this picture.


Online Packard

  • Posts: 1691
Re: Hand Miter Saw / Box
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2022, 03:08 PM »
I remember visiting the build site when my parents’ house was being built in 1955.  I was just 6 years old.  The image I conjure up is dozens of carpenters with hand saws cutting 2” x 4”s to size. 

And others using hand held hammers to drive nails. 

I was only there a few times during the build, but the impression that remains is the sounds of handsaws and hammers. 

The build in vanity in my home (built in 1953) was site-built using butt joints and nails.  Based on  the difficulty I had deconstructing the vanity, I had new-found respect for butt joints and nails.

Just to see what it was like, I built a small wall cabinet box using butt joints and nails (I added glue to the assembly—I could not bring myself to just use nails and butt joints).

The cabinet went together in about 2 hours.  I tested the assembled box before mounting and it seemed quite robust. 

I did not use a hand miter saw, but I could have easily made this with one. 

I no longer underestimate the strength of a simple nailed box (though I continue to use dowel construction).