Author Topic: Cubitron with Festool sanders  (Read 18229 times)

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Offline jussi

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Cubitron with Festool sanders
« on: April 21, 2021, 10:03 AM »
Will need to restock on sandpaper pretty soon and was thinking of giving the 3M Cubitron a try.  A couple of questions. 

1.  Have you noticed any significant advantages over Festool sand paper or Abranet (the other type I use currently) sandpaper

2. Will the paper fit directly on Festool sanders or will you need a special pad?  Or does the paper come in different hole configuration and you need to order the right model to fit Festool sanders?  I have a RO150 and ETSC 125. 

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2021, 12:43 PM »
I have not used the 3M™ Cubitron™ II sanding discs, I've only used the Cubitron™ II product in cut-off discs for RA grinders.

As far as I can tell, the Cubitron™ II sanding discs are placed directly on the standard Festool sander pad. The statement below is from a 3M brochure.

"Longer-lasting discs improve productivity and the unique spiral multihole pattern is designed for quicker changes because hole alignment is not required."

The Cubitron™ II sanding discs are available in 40 to 400 grit.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1282450O/3m-cubitron-ii-part-number-reference.pdf
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 12:55 PM by Cheese »

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2021, 12:44 PM »
Watching this thread.  As a fan of cubitron and festool sanders im stuck in the middle too.  You cannot buy cubitron in festool patern, you would have to custom punch each piece if you wanted the festool pattern. 3m has a line of pneumatic sanders for their cubitron.  Seems I remember that there was a video of someone using cubitron with festool with no modification to the paper and claiming it worked good. I wish Peter Milard would do a video.  He does a good job comparing the dust collection of festool sanders. 3m cubitron for the DTS would be sweet.   

Offline jussi

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2021, 12:54 PM »
I have not

Do you mean you haven’t used it or you haven’t noticed any quality difference?

Offline jussi

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2021, 12:56 PM »
Watching this thread.  As a fan of cubitron and festool sanders im stuck in the middle too.  You cannot buy cubitron in festool patern, you would have to custom punch each piece if you wanted the festool pattern. 3m has a line of pneumatic sanders for their cubitron.  Seems I remember that there was a video of someone using cubitron with festool with no modification to the paper and claiming it worked good. I wish Peter Milard would do a video.  He does a good job comparing the dust collection of festool sanders. 3m cubitron for the DTS would be sweet.

Good to know about the pattern. I guess I’ll hold off for now till they make a compatible hole pattern or there is an easy way to modify the existing ones.

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2021, 12:57 PM »
I have not

Do you mean you haven’t used it or you haven’t noticed any quality difference?

A standard 3M disc on the standard Festool LEX 3 150 air sander pad. 

« Last Edit: August 27, 2022, 08:53 AM by Cheese »

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2021, 01:35 PM »
3M cubitron for the DTS would be sweet.

Can't help you out with the DTS, however 3M manufactures Cubitron rolls that are 80 mm wide so that would work on a RTS sander.


Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2021, 04:25 PM »
Watching this thread.  As a fan of cubitron and festool sanders im stuck in the middle too.  You cannot buy cubitron in festool patern, you would have to custom punch each piece if you wanted the festool pattern. 3m has a line of pneumatic sanders for their cubitron.  Seems I remember that there was a video of someone using cubitron with festool with no modification to the paper and claiming it worked good. I wish Peter Milard would do a video.  He does a good job comparing the dust collection of festool sanders. 3m cubitron for the DTS would be sweet.

Good to know about the pattern. I guess I’ll hold off for now till they make a compatible hole pattern or there is an easy way to modify the existing ones.

DOnt hold your breath I doubt 3m will ever make a festool specific hole pattern.  As mentioned I have heard the existing hole pattern works but I would like someone with first hand experience comment.  Dust collection for sanding is my prime reason for using Festool sanders so if the dust collection is compromised at all with the cubitron I will just stick with granat.  Next time I need some 5" I will try some but I just stocked up so it will be awhile.   

Offline tsmi243

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2021, 05:22 PM »
I've done it.  I've only used 220+ grit, but performance and dust collection was just as good as Granat

ETS EC 125
CT26 on not-quite-lowest possible speed

Will try some coarse grit and report back.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2021, 05:23 PM »
I’ve used Norton abrasive disks with a similar hole pattern as the 3M Cubitron and dust collection was good, but it was 320 grit so the dust particles had no problem slipping through the small holes. Don’t think I’d want to sand with 40 grit and that hole pattern. Also ETS 125.

Offline tsmi243

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2021, 06:03 PM »
Just did some red oak and a scrap of hemlock with 80+.  No swirlies, and dust collection is still excellent.  Even with Granat, if you wipe your hand on the board after sanding, you get a little bit of white dust on your fingers- it was the same with the Cubitron.  Nothing escaping the tool, nothing tangible on the surface afterward.  Surface texture was indistinguishable to my eyes.  A+++, would sand again.

ETS EC was set on 6.  CT26 cranked up about 10% from the lowest setting. 

I don't have any projects coming up soon, but if a longer sanding session shows different results, I'll chime in again.

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2021, 06:07 PM »
thanks for feedback. 

Offline HandyDen

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    • The Handy Craftsman of Madison
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2021, 08:05 PM »
Just did some red oak and a scrap of hemlock with 80+.  No swirlies, and dust collection is still excellent.  Even with Granat, if you wipe your hand on the board after sanding, you get a little bit of white dust on your fingers- it was the same with the Cubitron.  Nothing escaping the tool, nothing tangible on the surface afterward.  Surface texture was indistinguishable to my eyes.  A+++, would sand again.

ETS EC was set on 6.  CT26 cranked up about 10% from the lowest setting. 

I don't have any projects coming up soon, but if a longer sanding session shows different results, I'll chime in again.

I had the same experience.  I’m using the Cubitron with my RO125 and ETSC125, having switched from Granat and Abranet.  The dust collection is just as good, but it seems as if the paper lasts longer.  In fact, I just called my Sherwin Williams rep and asked him to stock Cubitron so I can get it locally.

Offline jussi

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2021, 09:20 PM »
Just did some red oak and a scrap of hemlock with 80+.  No swirlies, and dust collection is still excellent.  Even with Granat, if you wipe your hand on the board after sanding, you get a little bit of white dust on your fingers- it was the same with the Cubitron.  Nothing escaping the tool, nothing tangible on the surface afterward.  Surface texture was indistinguishable to my eyes.  A+++, would sand again.

ETS EC was set on 6.  CT26 cranked up about 10% from the lowest setting. 

I don't have any projects coming up soon, but if a longer sanding session shows different results, I'll chime in again.

I had the same experience.  I’m using the Cubitron with my RO125 and ETSC125, having switched from Granat and Abranet.  The dust collection is just as good, but it seems as if the paper lasts longer.  In fact, I just called my Sherwin Williams rep and asked him to stock Cubitron so I can get it locally.

Do most of the holes in the pad line up to the holes in the paper?  Roughly (ie more than half, 3/4, etc ?) how many holes line up?  The good dust collection is surprising to me.  Also when you put it on, do you have to do it a certain way to make most of the holes align?   Didn't think a paper that was not specifically designed to line up with a given sander pad would give good results.  I may give it a try. 

Thank you all for sharing your results.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 09:24 PM by jussi »

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2021, 09:27 PM »
The holes in the Cubitron and Norton disks don’t match any sander pads but it doesn’t seem to matter, at least in the finer grits. The holes in Abranet are even smaller and also pad agnostic.

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2021, 09:38 PM »
Do most of the holes in the pad line up to the holes in the paper?  Roughly (ie more than half, 3/4, etc ?) how many holes line up?  The good dust collection is surprising to me.  Also when you put it on, do you have to do it a certain way to make most of the holes align?   Didn't think a paper that was not specifically designed to line up with a given sander pad would give good results.  I may give it a try. 

Just believe in what Mother Mining has to offer...she'll not steer you wrong. Over the last 100 years she's had a stellar record.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2021, 09:49 PM »

Just believe in what Mother Mining has to offer...she'll not steer you wrong. Over the last 100 years she's had a stellar record.


So, what does the other M stand for  [poke]

I learned decades ago, if 3M sells something and you follow the directions, there is no doubt that it will do what they said it would.

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2021, 10:03 PM »
So, what does the other M stand for  [poke]

I learned decades ago, if 3M sells something and you follow the directions, there is no doubt that it will do what they said it would.

Ya, big supporter of and previous employee of the company. Mother Mining may politically speak from both sides of her mouth, but technically, she issues forth only a single voice...that's the voice to listen to because that is what she is.  [smile]

Offline squall_line

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2021, 10:04 PM »

Just believe in what Mother Mining has to offer...she'll not steer you wrong. Over the last 100 years she's had a stellar record.


So, what does the other M stand for  [poke]

Heh.  [cool]

Just so our partners across the pond don't start to get all wonderin' about it, it officially stood for Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company.

Offline jussi

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2021, 10:23 PM »
Alight guys I'm sold.    Where do you guys buy them from?

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2021, 10:57 PM »
Just so our partners across the pond don't start to get all wonderin' about it, it officially stood for Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company.

Ya, it all started by harvesting corundum stone in Duluth Minnesota in 1902 to make sandpaper.

An interesting aside is that probably 80-90% of 3M's products are produced on a web. That's the reason web technology is so important. Tape, post-it-notes, ribbon, sandpaper, Scotch-Brite, random woven fibers are all a product of web technology and then slit to width and/or cut to length.


Offline jussi

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2021, 12:19 AM »
Just saw this video and chart comparing different sandpaper including the cubitron



https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0091/2169/3747/files/Sanding_Review_Complete.pdf?v=1595430096

Offline HandyDen

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2021, 09:05 PM »
Alight guys I'm sold.    Where do you guys buy them from?

I originally bought a "sampler" pack of 15 (3 each of 80, 120, 150, 180 and 220) for $7.50 on Amazon.  They also sell the 50 packs for about $42, or $.84/each.  But since the "sampler" packs end up costing $.50/each, I'm continuing to buy it that way for the moment.

Offline tsmi243

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2021, 05:42 PM »
Quote
"sampler" pack of 15

Same here.  Some of the came with no holes, so I'm using those on sanding blocks.  The reviews elsewhere show Cubitron kicking the stuff out of the competition.  So far so good, but I'm not a pro.

Holes- they line up well enough, you really don't need to pay any attention.  Just slap it on and go.

Offline squall_line

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2021, 12:00 PM »
Quote
"sampler" pack of 15

Same here. 

Do either of you have links to that listing or a part number or something?  Amazon's search algorithms, "sponsored" listings, etc. make it next to impossible to find things without a specific part number, and even then it can be pretty dodgy...

Offline jussi

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2021, 12:16 PM »
Quote
"sampler" pack of 15

Same here. 

Do either of you have links to that listing or a part number or something?  Amazon's search algorithms, "sponsored" listings, etc. make it next to impossible to find things without a specific part number, and even then it can be pretty dodgy...

I didn't see the previous posts when I ordered and didn't know Amazon carried it so I ordered from Taylor toolworks.  They have 2 variations of the sampler pack.  80 - 220 and 240 - 400.   I ordered 1 of each and is supposed to arrive today.  They sell it for $10.99.  I only saw the 5" not sure if they carry 6" versions.

https://taytools.com/products/3m-775l-sanding-discs-cubiton-ii-hookit-hook-and-loop-attachment-clean-sand-multi-hole-dust-extraction-15-disc-multi-pack-80-400-gri7?variant=32003827466327

Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2021, 12:42 PM »
Do either of you have links to that listing or a part number or something?  Amazon's search algorithms, "sponsored" listings, etc. make it next to impossible to find things without a specific part number, and even then it can be pretty dodgy...
I just found this.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Cubitron-Sanding-87338-Coating/dp/B07FGL2BC9/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2V6EXJ5MK4UMD&dchild=1&keywords=3m+775l+5%22+sanding+discs+15+disc+multi+pack+cubitron+ii+hookit&qid=1619282391&sprefix=3m+775l%2Caps%2C158&sr=8-2

3M Cubitron II Hookit Clean Sanding Film Disc 775L

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2021, 01:08 PM »
Do either of you have links to that listing or a part number or something?  Amazon's search algorithms, "sponsored" listings, etc. make it next to impossible to find things without a specific part number, and even then it can be pretty dodgy...
I just found this.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Cubitron-Sanding-87338-Coating/dp/B07FGL2BC9/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2V6EXJ5MK4UMD&dchild=1&keywords=3m+775l+5%22+sanding+discs+15+disc+multi+pack+cubitron+ii+hookit&qid=1619282391&sprefix=3m+775l%2Caps%2C158&sr=8-2

3M Cubitron II Hookit Clean Sanding Film Disc 775L

I was about to buy a few boxes of these but noticed the reviews say NO holes. Please beware

Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2021, 01:10 PM »
I was about to buy a few boxes of these but noticed the reviews say NO holes. Please beware
Thats one good thing about Amazon.  If they aren't as pictured, they go back.

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2021, 01:23 PM »
Yea Amazon is great with returns but I still try to eliminate as many bad/wrong purchases as possible.  However I did go to the 3M website and the 87338 discs which you linked to does list them as the "clean sanding discs" so I ordered one box to see. One review said they did have holes many said no so it sounds like its hit or miss. I will report back when they arrive.

Offline Rick Herrick

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2021, 03:49 PM »
I got the impression they used to be hole-less but a lot of customer complaints got it fixed.  Fingers crossed.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.



Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron II with Festool sanders
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2021, 11:45 AM »
5" Cubitron II discs cost just 30 cents each when purchased in trial multi packs. They cost 80 cents each when purchased in 25-packs.




I'm using them to sand teak furniture and prefer them over Granat discs. They seem to have a lot longer life.  The 3M ceramic abrasives are attached to a film backing while the Granat uses a paper backing.


Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2021, 01:26 PM »
the cubitron is way better but i do notice a small loss in dust extraction. You also have to be careful with that film backing when its spinning it can cut you like a razor. I was thinkng of making a punch to put the main festool holes in it.

Offline GregorHochschild

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2021, 03:05 PM »
Unfortunately, I don’t think there are 150 sample packs…

One problem I had with Cubitron is that they become loose and don’t stick to the sander anymore before the actual sandpaper is worn out. Anyone with the same problem?

Offline tsmi243

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2021, 09:32 PM »
I had perfectly normal dust extraction, through several disc changes.  Then, suddenly, no dust extraction at all. 

Turns out, there IS a way to put the disc on that misses nearly every one of the dust holes.  It's honestly hard to find, but it's there. 

If you find a hole punch for a 125, let me know

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2021, 10:42 PM »
The hole punch is something Im going to have to make not find. I was thinking two pieces of wood with the hole pattern drilled in it and then gluing some sharpened tubing in one half to create a male/female punch.  The film back concerns me a tad.  If it was paper back im sure it would work but that film seems pretty tough. 

Offline thorp

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2021, 01:01 AM »
Something like this would probably work to punch holes, albeit a slow method.

https://www.harborfreight.com/9-piece-hollow-punch-set-3838.html

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2021, 10:18 AM »
Here's something interesting.

Here's some Cubitron II 180 grit after sanding teak for about 10-15 minutes. I'm using an ETSC 125 with an ERGO power adapter and a MIDI on max suction. Some of the sawdust is even with the top of the sanding disc.








I just received some Cubitron II in the 6" size, it'll be interesting to see how the dust collection is with the additional holes in the 6" sanding pad.

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2021, 10:07 AM »
Here's the same dust evacuation test only using the ETS EC 125 with a 150 mm pad. Same MIDI vac and hose with the suction on max. The only thing that was changed was the sander.

There's a huge difference in dust collection because of all the additional holes in the 150 mm pad.






Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2021, 11:06 AM »
Off topic but I used some of these disks on a lathe turning. It was cool to see the streams of dust shooting out of the little holes.

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2021, 12:33 PM »
Yes the 150 looks much better.  You can actually see on the 125 pad many of the holes dont line up with the paper. It still has adequate dust collection but I can tell its not as good as festool paper but performance wise the 3m is hard to beat.   

Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2021, 09:35 PM »
Here is a new sanding disk showdown video from Katz-Moses. Looks pretty conclusive that the new Cubitron II Net sanding disks from 3M are the best. Looks like it is longer lasting, better price and they fixed the extraction problem.



Does anyone have any direct experience with these? I'm gonna try to order some online so when they finally arrive I'll give y'all some feedback.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 09:40 PM by John van Houten »

Offline squall_line

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2021, 11:05 PM »
Here is a new sanding disk showdown video from Katz-Moses. Looks pretty conclusive that the new Cubitron II Net sanding disks from 3M are the best. Looks like it is longer lasting, better price and they fixed the extraction problem.

Does anyone have any direct experience with these? I'm gonna try to order some online so when they finally arrive I'll give y'all some feedback.

 [eek] [eek] [eek]

Holy buckets.

It appears that, at least for the Festool, he used the 10-packs, which are the most expensive, to determine his cost/gram removed.  I'll say that's fair as long as he went with the most expensive packaging option for each brand's consumable.

One of my gripes with Festool's paper is how they package their selections, and how the discs drop from $1.60/disc in a 10-pack to $.84/disc in a 50-pack and $.65/disc in a 100-pack (never mind most of their selections have no 50-pack option).

Wish this video had been out when Grizzly was dropping Festool; I'd probably have a lot less Festool paper and a lot more 3M in my garage, since I overstocked up on Festool at that time.

Anyone know the lifespan of the net protection pad that you need to have to use mesh paper on Festool?  That might eat into the price difference considerably if you have to replace the interface all the time (although obviously still cheaper than replacing the pad itself if you forget to use the protector).
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 11:12 PM by squall_line »

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2021, 12:03 AM »
A very interesting test...not that far off from what we've discussed here on the FOG lately. Most of our current abrasive evaluations have been gut feel while this one elevates the discussion to some practical standards that we as a forum, would be hard pressed to institute without some outside funding.

The only issue that raises my radar antennae is this photo of the robot in action.



Why would this label be attached to the sanding robot? I worked as an engineer for 3M for 8 years so I still feel some kinmanship towards the company, however this photo strikes me as just plain wrong if unprejudiced analytical evaluation is the desired outcome.

Offline Alex

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2021, 02:41 AM »
It appears that, at least for the Festool, he used the 10-packs, which are the most expensive, to determine his cost/gram removed.  I'll say that's fair as long as he went with the most expensive packaging option for each brand's consumable.

One of my gripes with Festool's paper is how they package their selections, and how the discs drop from $1.60/disc in a 10-pack to $.84/disc in a 50-pack and $.65/disc in a 100-pack (never mind most of their selections have no 50-pack option).

A very valid point. You can't buy 3M Cubitron in small packs, so that makes the cost go down considerably. In Festool's case it is almost, or over 50% as you calculated. "People will poke holes in any test you do", looks like you found a big one.


The only issue that raises my radar antennae is this photo of the robot in action.

.........

Why would this label be attached to the sanding robot?

I think the test guys had nothing to do with that and the 3M sticker was there because the robot guys developped the robot in conjunction with 3M. Because 3M is such a big company that makes so many quality products, many people in related fields regard them as the standard. You can't develop a sanding robot without a good supply of sandpaper.


Quote
From video: Mesh is the future

Until you put it on a real world objects with edges, nooks, crannies and corners, and see it disintegrate in seconds. What's the point of having it cut forever on a flat plane if the first edge you find tears it up? I've had some experience the last year with Granat and Mirka mesh discs, and some other brands, and I am very not impressed.

But I am very anxious to try out the non-mesh version of Cubitron, unfortunately it is not sold by a lot of dealers here yet.

Disappointed in the Makita disc result. I just bought €100 in discs last week for our 225mm wall sander because it was the only brand I could find in my city. I really hope they use a different formula here.

Also disappointed they didn't include Indasa in the test, but maybe it is not available in the States? I find it very cost effective compared to Festool paper, costing only 50% of Festool Granat.

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2021, 05:14 AM »
I think Jonathan mentioned in the video that the supplier he had linked to in the description would break down the packs and sell less than a full pack.

It does make me wonder when it says "Optimized for 3M Cubitron" what that optimization means to the other brands of paper and their performance. Disc RPM and applied downforce might be where they have optimized the robot. Other than the stroke of the random orbit action I don't see what could be tweaked except extraction air flow CFM.
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Offline rvieceli

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2021, 07:05 AM »
Alex - Indasa USA has a strong presence online here, but I don't think I have ever seen it in a retail outlet. There are a few distributors plus Amazon carries some of the line. I usually get mine from https://indasa-direct.com/

Ron
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 07:09 AM by rvieceli »

Offline Bert Vanderveen

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2021, 08:20 AM »
My beef with Katz-Moses’ video/test is that it is based on "grams of material taken off". I think that the result in the sense of "how does the surface look like", eg is it flat, is it evenly in structure, how visible are swirl marks, etc. is more important to a woodworker…
This test doesn’t take that into account, so I take it with lots of grains of salt.

Sidenote: the number 1 product (3M XTract Cubitron II (mesh)) is extremely hard to obtain, esp. over here in Europe. And I find it surprising that Mirka Autonet (aimed at the automotive market!) ended up as number 4...
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 · MFT/3 + TSB1-MW 1000 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 · OF2200 · CMS-GE · Vecturo 18 Li · TID 18 · TKS 80 EBS-Set · DTS 400 · ETS EC 125 w 150 pad · Surfix Set · CTL SYS · CT-VA-20 · … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer: A3 31 Silent Power · N4400 · HS950 | TaigaTools: VacPods Pro Set
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Offline tsmi243

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2021, 11:29 AM »
My beef with Katz-Moses’ video/test is that it is based on "grams of material taken off". I think that the result in the sense of "how does the surface look like", eg is it flat, is it evenly in structure, how visible are swirl marks, etc. is more important to a woodworker…
This test doesn’t take that into account, so I take it with lots of grains of salt.



But then you'd be complaining about how subjective the test was.....


Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 896
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2021, 11:38 AM »
There must be scientific means for measuring smoothness etc. So that would not be subjective, right?
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 · MFT/3 + TSB1-MW 1000 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 · OF2200 · CMS-GE · Vecturo 18 Li · TID 18 · TKS 80 EBS-Set · DTS 400 · ETS EC 125 w 150 pad · Surfix Set · CTL SYS · CT-VA-20 · … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer: A3 31 Silent Power · N4400 · HS950 | TaigaTools: VacPods Pro Set
On order: … [ ! ]

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2021, 11:44 AM »
There must be scientific means for measuring smoothness etc. So that would not be subjective, right?

The same way you measure surface roughness on metal. And they now have no-contact vision comparators to make measurements easier & faster.

It's used in the automotive industry to measure the mating surfaces of heads & engine blocks on the fly. There's no longer a need to send the items to QA for analysis, it just becomes another part/step of the production line milling operation...it only takes a couple of seconds.

https://nanovea.com/profilometry-roughness-finish/
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 12:47 PM by Cheese »

Offline Alex

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2021, 12:35 PM »
There must be scientific means for measuring smoothness etc. So that would not be subjective, right?

Yes, the official SI unit is mountains per square meter, but they're still arguing about it.  [tongue]

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2021, 01:34 PM »
There must be scientific means for measuring smoothness etc. So that would not be subjective, right?

Yes, the official SI unit is mountains per square meter, but they're still arguing about it.  [tongue]

Arguing or counting? Square millimeter seems more practical.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7797
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2021, 01:46 PM »
There must be scientific means for measuring smoothness etc. So that would not be subjective, right?

Yes, the official SI unit is mountains per square meter, but they're still arguing about it.  [tongue]

Arguing or counting? Square millimeter seems more practical.

Sounds like you'd fit right into the debate.  [smile]

Offline xedos

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2021, 03:04 PM »
If one buys the Diablo mesh discs on sale ( which is frequent) they jump almost to the very top of the cost per gram metric, coming in just behind the new Cubitron mesh.

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2021, 04:35 PM »
If one buys the Diablo mesh discs on sale ( which is frequent) they jump almost to the very top of the cost per gram metric, coming in just behind the new Cubitron mesh.

A valid point. And who's to say the new Cubitron will remain at this low price point. If you want to introduce a new product and steal market share away from the competition which has already established their portion the best way to do that is make your product more attractive. So you either bring it out at a low price point until you get them 'hooked'. Then six months or a year later the price starts climbing. Or you include some bonus with the product to make it's purchase more enticing.
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Offline Chainring

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2021, 05:32 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't an interface pad be used with the mesh products? If so, there's another cost and consumable.

Offline squall_line

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2021, 07:10 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't an interface pad be used with the mesh products? If so, there's another cost and consumable.

You are correct; I asked a similar question above somewhere during my long rambling

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2021, 09:15 PM »
Which pad is the correct one to use for mesh paper?

The 492271 StickFix Interface Pad or something else.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2021, 09:54 PM »
Which pad is the correct one to use for mesh paper?

The 492271 StickFix Interface Pad or something else.

Festool offers a series of protection pads. They're all about 1/8" thick.

203344 = 125 series
203343 = 150 series
203346 = RTS series
203347 = DTS series

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 276
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2021, 11:06 PM »
Which pad is the correct one to use for mesh paper?

The 492271 StickFix Interface Pad or something else.

No, that's for following curves/round overs etc. You want a 'pad saver', which protects the hook and loop from damage caused by the mesh. They're a disposable item, available from Mirka.

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #62 on: September 09, 2021, 05:44 AM »
Thanks Cheese and Lincoln. Sounds like a trip to Woodcraft is in order.

Only bad part is I'll probably come home with more than just the pad.  [big grin]

Haven't been to Woodcraft in over a year with the pandemic. Might be
time to take a trip over the bridge into Delaware. It's 35 miles one way
and a $5 bridge toll so I have to make it worth my while. I don't think
there is a Woodcraft in all of NJ.

Update: Glad I called before I headed over there as they have none in stock
so I order off the web. Should be here by Saturday. They come two to a pack
for $13.00
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 09:36 PM by Bob D. »
-----
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Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #63 on: September 09, 2021, 08:51 AM »
Which pad is the correct one to use for mesh paper?

The 492271 StickFix Interface Pad or something else.

Not sure about others but the last time I got some Diablo mesh it came with an interface pad in the package.  I agree with Alex however I was not impressed with the Diablo mesh I dont remember exactly what I was sanding but I do remember once it hit a corner or edge it disintegrates fast

I use and love the film backed Cubitron paper. It is the only sandpaper I buy now.  I will say on some sanders such as ETS 125 Req I feel like the dust collection does suffer a bit with the film backed disks.  No fancy scientific tests were done to come to that conclusion just my personal and objective observation.  Im going to give the cube mesh a try and really, really hope its more durable than the Diablo.  If so it could be the perfect disc if it performs like in the KM video. 

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2021, 10:20 AM »
I use and love the film backed Cubitron paper. It is the only sandpaper I buy now.  I will say on some sanders such as ETS 125 Req I feel like the dust collection does suffer a bit with the film backed disks.  No fancy scientific tests were done to come to that conclusion just my personal and objective observation. 

Here's a recent example on teak outdoor furniture. The results are pretty obvious. Once I get back to this teak sanding project, I'll try attaching the MIDI to the ETSC and look at those results. 

1. An ETSC 125 with only the vacuum bag
2. An ETS EC 125/150 with a MIDI 1 attached.










« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 10:22 AM by Cheese »

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2021, 10:27 AM »
are you saying you think the dust collection with the 3m cube is just as good as with granat?

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2021, 10:50 AM »
are you saying you think the dust collection with the 3m cube is just as good as with granat?

For the ETSC 125 if you're using the dust bag and relying on the internal vac fan on the sander, the larger diameter Granat holes do a lot better job.

For the ETS EC while using Cubitron I also cranked up the amount of suction on the MIDI and that now does as well as the Granat.

It will be interesting to attach the MIDI to the ETSC 125 and see if that helps dust extraction. I think it will I just don't know how much. I think you're also somewhat limited because of the number of holes in the 5" pad versus the 6" pad.

The 5" has 9 large holes and that's it.
The 6" has 16 large holes, 16 medium holes and 38 small holes.

Offline jussi

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2021, 11:05 AM »
Thanks for the review cheese. I have an ets ec 150 and Etsy 125.  I only had the 5” Cubitron but recently ordered the 6”.  I have a ct 26 so I’m curious to see how well the dc will perform with larger diameter discs and larger sander.  The 5” was ok but not great for me.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 11:44 AM by jussi »

Offline guybo

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2021, 09:23 PM »
good review

Offline xedos

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2021, 09:47 PM »
Quote
Not sure about others but the last time I got some Diablo mesh it came with an interface pad in the package.  I agree with Alex however I was not impressed with the Diablo mesh I dont remember exactly what I was sanding but I do remember once it hit a corner or edge it disintegrates fast

Diablo’s interface pad doesn’t work (actually align) with Festool’s hole patterns.  You’ll need to use Festool’s interface pads with whatever brand mesh abrasive you choose if you want the dust collection to function properly.

Mesh disintegrates when you hit a sharp or rough edge, or metal nail, screw, ect.  Matters not whether the disc is from Diablo, Mirka , or Festool.  It’s one of the drawbacks of the type.

Is it the best?   Prob. not, but at roughly 35cents a disc on sale it’s a top contender for value.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1415
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #70 on: September 30, 2021, 08:50 AM »
So my sample 3m cubitron mesh pack finally arrived and I tested it out yesterday sanding some bare wood (marine ply) and figured I would report my findings.  I found the 3m mesh to be much much more durable than the Diablo mesh I tried before.  However, it still doesnt last nearly as long as the regular 3m cubitron film backed discs.  I will say I didnt expect them too either, those film backed discs are some really durable discs and last a long time. 

But and its a pretty big but the 3m cube mesh really shines in dust collection over the film discs.  I used them on a ets 125 req not the ec which has more holes and might be better and have a better chance at the holes matching up.  The req holes dont match up very well with the film backed cubitron so DC will suffer even with a ct36 attached compared to using granat.

Long story short if you want better DC control =mesh.  If durability and longevity are most important than the 3m cubitron film discs is the winner.

I plan on getting an ets 125 ec soon so my req can stay permanently in the edge guide.  I use my req and edge guide a lot for smoothing up edges when parts come off the cnc so the film discs are the clear winner in that scenario since I am sanding 100% edges and I will use the EC for larger flatter surfaces. My biggest issue is Im not a fan of having the dust hose attached with the edge guide since it creates some extra wrist strain and using the bag is so much lighter, faster and more maneuverable with the edge guide so I think my best bet is making a punch to put the festool hole pattern in the cubitron to give the edge guide/bag combo the best dust collection while keeping the lighter more maneuverable bag on.

I will be sticking with the film discs which I love its by far the best performing, longest lasting, clog resistant sandpaper I have ever used.       

Offline Brad Nailor

  • Posts: 8
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #71 on: April 26, 2022, 08:23 AM »
I'm new to this forum and came across it while searching for information about using the 3M Xtract Cubitron net disks on Festool sanders.  I bought a large supply of these disks based on reviews (like KM Tools) but have been unable to use them because they won't stick to my Festool ETS-EC sander's pad at all.  This is a brand new sander so the pad is in good shape, but the disks begin to wander immediately and fly off as soon as you lift the sander off the work piece.  I've tried contacting both Festool and 3M to get answers about this but so far have not found anyone who can give me a definitive answer.  So is 3M's Hookit system a different type of hook & loop that will only work with 3M sanders?  I've seen some responses on here talk about using an interface pad, is the purpose of that to protect your sander's pad while using a thin mesh disk?  If the interface pad has the Festool style hook & loop on both sides it wouldn't make the disk stick any better.  I've been searching for an interface pad that has the Festool style H&L on the back and the 3M Hookit on the front but so far haven't found such a thing.  Can anyone shed any light?  Thank you.

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 896
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #72 on: April 26, 2022, 08:37 AM »
Mirka has interface pads that should work.
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 · MFT/3 + TSB1-MW 1000 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 · OF2200 · CMS-GE · Vecturo 18 Li · TID 18 · TKS 80 EBS-Set · DTS 400 · ETS EC 125 w 150 pad · Surfix Set · CTL SYS · CT-VA-20 · … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer: A3 31 Silent Power · N4400 · HS950 | TaigaTools: VacPods Pro Set
On order: … [ ! ]

Offline jonnyrocket

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #73 on: April 26, 2022, 01:08 PM »
R@Brad Nailor Sedge discussed the Festool StickFix details in the most recent Festool Live video. In his explanation the Festool Hook system just has extra hooks in opposing directions. But as pointed out, the interface pads have softer hooks which work better than the direct sander pad when using the “net” or mesh style abrasives.

Offline Brad Nailor

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2022, 04:11 PM »
Thanks for the responses.  I picked up a Festool interface pad and the net disks stick great to the interface pad... but the interface pad does not stick to the sander.  Now I'm really confused, this is a practically new Festool ETS-EC, why won't Festool's own interface pads stick to it?

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #75 on: April 26, 2022, 04:33 PM »
Thanks for the responses.  I picked up a Festool interface pad and the net disks stick great to the interface pad... but the interface pad does not stick to the sander.  Now I'm really confused, this is a practically new Festool ETS-EC, why won't Festool's own interface pads stick to it?

If you used the current pad for even a short period with the mesh discs you probably already compromised the pad. Im assuming this based on your other post made it sound like you attempted it.  It doesnt take much to ruin the pad.  Have you tried a regular sanding disc to see if it stays stuck to the pad?

Offline Brad Nailor

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #76 on: April 26, 2022, 04:56 PM »
That could well be what happened.  A regular disk does stick better, but not great, and not as well as they used to.  So if the mesh disks ruin your sanding pads in short order what are you supposed to do?  Aren't they going to ruin an interface pad as well?  And the interface pads are not cheap.  There ought to be warnings on the mesh pads about this problem, it's not mentioned anywhere in the product descriptions when you go to buy them.

Offline Brad Nailor

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2022, 05:00 PM »
I see there were a couple posts back in Jan, 2019 about "pad savers".  I guess that's what I need.

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #78 on: April 26, 2022, 05:19 PM »
Yea, if a regular disc doesnt stick "good" thats what happened.  A fresh pad the disc sticks so good its hard to remove.  I dont use or like the mesh discs so I cant comment on the longevity of the pad saver.  The best discs made are the 3m film backed Cubitron hands down, but the DC is compromised a bit unless you custom punch them. It sucks I know. I wish 3m made them in different pre punched configurations but its 3m so that will never happen.

Offline Brad Nailor

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #79 on: April 26, 2022, 05:34 PM »
So I did some searches and I can't find any disks that are referred to as both Cubitron and film-backed.  There are the non-mesh type of Cubitron disks with the spiral hole patterns, and then there are the purple film-backed finishing disks that don't seem to have any holes in them at all.  Is it one of these that you are referring to, or something else?

Offline rst

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #80 on: April 26, 2022, 05:39 PM »
3M Cubitron II Hookit Clean Sanding Film Disc 775L are the film based disks - Amazon

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #81 on: April 26, 2022, 05:39 PM »
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40065039/  things wear like steel and resist clogging better than anything I have found. If you happen to touch the edge of the disc wile its spinning it will cut you like a razor. So be careful with that. 

Offline Brad Nailor

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #82 on: April 26, 2022, 05:47 PM »
Thanks very much guys.

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #83 on: April 26, 2022, 05:56 PM »
3M makes Cubitron in film and paper based discs.

The discs with holes are referred to as "Clean Sanding" while the discs without holes are usually referred to as NH (no hole).

HOOKIT is hook & loop backing while STICKIT is PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive) backing.



Offline Brad Nailor

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #84 on: April 26, 2022, 06:20 PM »
Thanks (from the Land of 11,981 lakes).

Offline jcrowe1950

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #85 on: April 26, 2022, 11:38 PM »
I see there were a couple posts back in Jan, 2019 about "pad savers".  I guess that's what I need.
Hi Brad, et al,

    Festool offers what they refer to as Protection Pads....in the Festool world they are used with Granat Net abrasives and Mirka has something similar for use with Abranet. Interestingly, the Festool version are significantly cheaper than the Mirka versions. The 6" or D150mm are Item number 203343 and the 5" or D125mm are Item number 203344. In the Festool world they are also available in Delta 100x150 and the rectangular 80x133. They come two to a pack. It looks like they might work well with the Hookit version of Cubitron. So here's a question for all of you sophisticated users....I found a 15 sheet sample pack of the 5" but could find nothing similar for the 6" cubitron....anybody have any ideas on where it could be found?
Festool Specialist at Woodcraft, Chattanooga, TN

Latest Festool purchase...Rotex 150.

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #86 on: April 26, 2022, 11:58 PM »
So here's a question for all of you sophisticated users....I found a 15 sheet sample pack of the 5" but could find nothing similar for the 6" cubitron....anybody have any ideas on where it could be found?

That's the nice feature of the ETS EC 125/150 hybrid sander. You own one sander that's capable with 2 different sanding pad sizes.

So to answer your question directly, no I have not found sample packs for the 6" discs...just for the 5" discs, I think I paid 30 cents per sheet...cheaper than cheap.  [smile]

So by purchasing the ETS EC 125 you can use either a 5" pad or a 6" pad depending upon what size SANDING DISCS ARE AVAILABLE, so it really isn't a I'll only use 5" or I'll only use 6" discs scenario, it's more of a I HAVE OPTIONS scenario. That's been lost on a lot of folks that don't look at the ETS EC 125's flexibility.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2022, 12:21 AM by Cheese »

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #87 on: April 27, 2022, 06:56 AM »
no sample packs in 6" Best supplier seems to be RS Hughes they seem to have everything the site can be hard to search for odd ball items

Offline Brad Nailor

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #88 on: April 27, 2022, 09:09 AM »
Really?  You can put a 6" pad on an ETS-EC 125?  All these things I didn't know.  Good thing I found this forum.

Also, thanks for the info about the Festool protection pads, I just ordered a 2-pack. Seems like the price is about the same as the Mirka at $7 unless there is a cheaper price somewhere.  But I assume the Festool pads will work better on a Festool sander and don't have all of the unnecessary extra holes.

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #89 on: April 27, 2022, 09:49 AM »
Really?  You can put a 6" pad on an ETS-EC 125?  All these things I didn't know.  Good thing I found this forum.

Yup...here's a previous thread.

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/ets-ec-125150/60/

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #90 on: August 27, 2022, 10:19 AM »
Lately, I've been sanding a few interior doors that were painted with some SW water based paint about 20 years ago. This is only a temporary fix because I'll be replacing the doors in a couple of years. So I'm not trying to strip the paint from the door but just level it out and scuff it up for a new coat of paint.

I've been using 180 Cubitron II in a ETSC 125 set at speed #6 with the standard dust bag. The results have been excellent, the surface is really smooth with minimal gumming up on the Cubitron paper. 3M claims that the Cubitron discs run cooler than normal and the results I got are the proof of that statement.

Here's a view of the disc after 20 minutes of sanding with the bag on. Very minimal build-up and the Cubitron grains are still sharp to the touch.




However, I decided to empty the dust bag and this is what I found.




After seeing this, I decided to install a new disc, hook the sander up to the MIDI and sand for another 20 minutes. Here are the new results.






Difficult to see from these photos but you can feel the differences on the paper between using just the bag and instead using a vacuum. The Cubitron grains also feel sharper when using the vacuum.



Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Bob D.

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #91 on: August 27, 2022, 01:08 PM »
So you think the paper is limiting air flow which is causing the dust to buildup inside the tool?

Did you run the same test with Festool paper?
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #92 on: August 27, 2022, 01:12 PM »
there is no question hat the paper/film discs restrict air flow. the holes between the festool and 3m do not line up well. 

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #93 on: August 27, 2022, 01:36 PM »
So you think the paper is limiting air flow which is causing the dust to buildup inside the tool?

Did you run the same test with Festool paper?

Not really, it's just that the small internal blower on the ETS 125 can't compete with an external vacuum on sticky paint residue. The only difference between photo 2 & photo 4 is the addition of the MIDI and the MIDI was only set on #3.

I've sanded a lot of bare teak with just the bag attached and never noticed the restriction when I emptied the bag.

I've more pieces to sand and I'll swap out some Granat for the Cubitron and see what happens. This may not be an issue with the ETS 150 because the pad on the 150 is much more open.




Online ChuckS

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #94 on: August 27, 2022, 02:17 PM »
There's also no question that, everything being equal, a sander performs better with the use of dust extraction (set to proper suction) than not.

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #95 on: August 27, 2022, 04:59 PM »
The newer 3M Extract might be a better choice. It has a much more open pattern that should let it breath better on the Festool sanders.

Is there an intermediary pad needed to use Cubitron paper on a Festool sander?
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Offline Crazyraceguy

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2022, 06:31 PM »
I would say that this is one of the problems that you run into with after-market consumables that are intended to fit everything. It turns into a compromise, which is "good enough" for most of the things it fits, but not ideal for any of them.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1010F
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
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Installers set
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Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #97 on: August 27, 2022, 08:49 PM »
I would say that this is one of the problems that you run into with after-market consumables that are intended to fit everything. It turns into a compromise, which is "good enough" for most of the things it fits, but not ideal for any of them.

I hear what you're saying but there is supposed to be a corporate "synergestic" & professional business relationship between 3M and Festool...one would hope that some of these seemingly niggling issues would have been resolved. I bring this up because the sanding pads for the Festool 150 mm sanders look to be a better fit with the 3M product than the 125 mm sander pads. 





« Last Edit: August 28, 2022, 10:00 AM by Cheese »

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #98 on: August 28, 2022, 11:56 AM »
The newer 3M Extract might be a better choice. It has a much more open pattern that should let it breath better on the Festool sanders.

Is there an intermediary pad needed to use Cubitron paper on a Festool sander?

A "pad saver" needs to be used with Cubitron net discs but not with Cubitron film discs. The film disc is manufactured from 3 mil polyester film so it's incredibly tough...tougher than any paper or cloth backing product.

What is interesting is the 125 mm pad saver from Festool vs 3M. Here's Festool #203344 first & then 3M #20444.






Here's an interesting comparison between 3M net and Mirka net. Towards the bottom of the page there is a series of videos. Click on the "Side-by-Side Comparison"

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/collision-repair-us/featured-products/net/?utm_campaign=lattice_glblalwaysonsearch&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_content=demo_na&utm_term=sibg-aad-na-en_us-pa-lattice_glblalwaysonsearch-cpc-google-na-demo-ad2-jan22-na&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7-TwxdHp-QIVZ3FvBB1YCgJ8EAAYASAAEgKORvD_BwE#
« Last Edit: August 28, 2022, 12:13 PM by Cheese »

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #99 on: August 28, 2022, 02:26 PM »
Another good comparison of various brands of paper (19 in all I believe).

-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #100 on: August 31, 2022, 12:24 PM »
I'm just loving the Cubitron paper so much when sanding these painted doors that I decided to order some for the 6" ETS EC sander. I ordered it from a local place, R. S. Hughes, that stocks all the sizes and all the grits. The nice thing is they can be purchased in single pieces only if a person just wants to take a few for a test drive.


https://www.rshughes.com/p/3M-Cubitron-II-Hookit-Clean-Sanding-775L-6-In-Film-Disc-180-Grit-Very-Fine-Hook-Loop/076308_64265/

Online Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #101 on: August 31, 2022, 01:23 PM »
Another good comparison of various brands of paper (19 in all I believe).



Thanks for posting this Bob...watched it and it's interesting & surprising at the same time. Surprised that Abranet was rated as low as it is.  Here's the overall findings for you 10-minute managers out there.


Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #102 on: August 31, 2022, 03:07 PM »
Saw it watched the whole thing and tried the 3m Extract, while there was some valuable info.  There is a difference between sanding test panels robotically and real world sanding.  I can without a doubt say that the film discs outperform the Extract in "real world" sanding except for dust collection IMO. Its unfortunate that the film disc holes dont align better with Festool hole pattern.  Either way hands down the cubitron discs are the best on the market if you need durability get the film if you are more concerned with dust control get the extract.     

Offline Chainring

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #103 on: August 31, 2022, 03:22 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe they used protection pads in that test which is almost a requirement with the net discs and with Xtract. In the link Cheese shared, 3M recommends protection pads in the PDFs. If so, the test is somewhat misleading from a price standpoint.

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #104 on: August 31, 2022, 03:41 PM »
"There is a difference between sanding test panels robotically and real world sanding."

Agree, in the 'lab' and in the field are two different environments.

And wasn't that one reason why they used a 'robot' to perform the testing?

Removing that variable from the equation gave them a more controlled and equitable comparison didn't it?

The protection pad is a good point. How often are you replacing that pad though. Does it last 20 discs, 50, or less?
Still it's cost should be factored into that of the disc against those papers which do not require a pad.
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Offline rmhinden

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #105 on: August 31, 2022, 04:59 PM »
I received an email earlier today from Taylor Toolworks that they have 3M Xtract Sanding Disks 25% off, link is here.



I may try some out.

Bob


Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #106 on: August 31, 2022, 09:27 PM »
"There is a difference between sanding test panels robotically and real world sanding."

Agree, in the 'lab' and in the field are two different environments.

And wasn't that one reason why they used a 'robot' to perform the testing?

Removing that variable from the equation gave them a more controlled and equitable comparison didn't it?

The protection pad is a good point. How often are you replacing that pad though. Does it last 20 discs, 50, or less?
Still it's cost should be factored into that of the disc against those papers which do not require a pad.

If you have your own robot sander sanding flat panels all day and material removal rate/cost per gram is your primary concern then great. I get the testing and the trying to even the playing field. However, the cost per gram can be considerably skewed in real world environments. That's the world I live in. The video does a good job doing what they did and dont dispute the findings based on the test parameters.  Just because a race car may do well on a paved track doesn't mean its the best option on a motocross track.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 06:45 AM by afish »