Author Topic: Cubitron with Festool sanders  (Read 7660 times)

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Offline jussi

  • Posts: 399
Cubitron with Festool sanders
« on: April 21, 2021, 10:03 AM »
Will need to restock on sandpaper pretty soon and was thinking of giving the 3M Cubitron a try.  A couple of questions. 

1.  Have you noticed any significant advantages over Festool sand paper or Abranet (the other type I use currently) sandpaper

2. Will the paper fit directly on Festool sanders or will you need a special pad?  Or does the paper come in different hole configuration and you need to order the right model to fit Festool sanders?  I have a RO150 and ETSC 125. 

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Cheese

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2021, 12:43 PM »
I have not used the 3M™ Cubitron™ II sanding discs, I've only used the Cubitron™ II product in cut-off discs for RA grinders.

As far as I can tell, the Cubitron™ II sanding discs are placed directly on the standard Festool sander pad. The statement below is from a 3M brochure.

"Longer-lasting discs improve productivity and the unique spiral multihole pattern is designed for quicker changes because hole alignment is not required."

The Cubitron™ II sanding discs are available in 40 to 400 grit.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1282450O/3m-cubitron-ii-part-number-reference.pdf
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 12:55 PM by Cheese »

Offline afish

  • Posts: 601
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2021, 12:44 PM »
Watching this thread.  As a fan of cubitron and festool sanders im stuck in the middle too.  You cannot buy cubitron in festool patern, you would have to custom punch each piece if you wanted the festool pattern. 3m has a line of pneumatic sanders for their cubitron.  Seems I remember that there was a video of someone using cubitron with festool with no modification to the paper and claiming it worked good. I wish Peter Milard would do a video.  He does a good job comparing the dust collection of festool sanders. 3m cubitron for the DTS would be sweet.   

Offline jussi

  • Posts: 399
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2021, 12:54 PM »
I have not

Do you mean you haven’t used it or you haven’t noticed any quality difference?

Offline jussi

  • Posts: 399
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2021, 12:56 PM »
Watching this thread.  As a fan of cubitron and festool sanders im stuck in the middle too.  You cannot buy cubitron in festool patern, you would have to custom punch each piece if you wanted the festool pattern. 3m has a line of pneumatic sanders for their cubitron.  Seems I remember that there was a video of someone using cubitron with festool with no modification to the paper and claiming it worked good. I wish Peter Milard would do a video.  He does a good job comparing the dust collection of festool sanders. 3m cubitron for the DTS would be sweet.

Good to know about the pattern. I guess I’ll hold off for now till they make a compatible hole pattern or there is an easy way to modify the existing ones.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2021, 12:57 PM »
I have not

Do you mean you haven’t used it or you haven’t noticed any quality difference?

See my latest post...I posted 3 different times and the post never showed up so the short "I have not" post was only a place holder to find out what was wrong.

This is the photo I was trying to attach, the over all size was correct but the resolution was excessive.

A standard 3M disc on the standard Festool LEX 3 150 air sander pad. 

« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 01:36 PM by Cheese »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2021, 01:35 PM »
3M cubitron for the DTS would be sweet.

Can't help you out with the DTS, however 3M manufactures Cubitron rolls that are 80 mm wide so that would work on a RTS sander.


Offline afish

  • Posts: 601
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2021, 04:25 PM »
Watching this thread.  As a fan of cubitron and festool sanders im stuck in the middle too.  You cannot buy cubitron in festool patern, you would have to custom punch each piece if you wanted the festool pattern. 3m has a line of pneumatic sanders for their cubitron.  Seems I remember that there was a video of someone using cubitron with festool with no modification to the paper and claiming it worked good. I wish Peter Milard would do a video.  He does a good job comparing the dust collection of festool sanders. 3m cubitron for the DTS would be sweet.

Good to know about the pattern. I guess I’ll hold off for now till they make a compatible hole pattern or there is an easy way to modify the existing ones.

DOnt hold your breath I doubt 3m will ever make a festool specific hole pattern.  As mentioned I have heard the existing hole pattern works but I would like someone with first hand experience comment.  Dust collection for sanding is my prime reason for using Festool sanders so if the dust collection is compromised at all with the cubitron I will just stick with granat.  Next time I need some 5" I will try some but I just stocked up so it will be awhile.   

Offline tsmi243

  • Posts: 113
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2021, 05:22 PM »
I've done it.  I've only used 220+ grit, but performance and dust collection was just as good as Granat

ETS EC 125
CT26 on not-quite-lowest possible speed

Will try some coarse grit and report back.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5290
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2021, 05:23 PM »
I’ve used Norton abrasive disks with a similar hole pattern as the 3M Cubitron and dust collection was good, but it was 320 grit so the dust particles had no problem slipping through the small holes. Don’t think I’d want to sand with 40 grit and that hole pattern. Also ETS 125.

Offline tsmi243

  • Posts: 113
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2021, 06:03 PM »
Just did some red oak and a scrap of hemlock with 80+.  No swirlies, and dust collection is still excellent.  Even with Granat, if you wipe your hand on the board after sanding, you get a little bit of white dust on your fingers- it was the same with the Cubitron.  Nothing escaping the tool, nothing tangible on the surface afterward.  Surface texture was indistinguishable to my eyes.  A+++, would sand again.

ETS EC was set on 6.  CT26 cranked up about 10% from the lowest setting. 

I don't have any projects coming up soon, but if a longer sanding session shows different results, I'll chime in again.

Offline afish

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Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2021, 06:07 PM »
thanks for feedback. 

Offline HandyDen

  • Posts: 50
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2021, 08:05 PM »
Just did some red oak and a scrap of hemlock with 80+.  No swirlies, and dust collection is still excellent.  Even with Granat, if you wipe your hand on the board after sanding, you get a little bit of white dust on your fingers- it was the same with the Cubitron.  Nothing escaping the tool, nothing tangible on the surface afterward.  Surface texture was indistinguishable to my eyes.  A+++, would sand again.

ETS EC was set on 6.  CT26 cranked up about 10% from the lowest setting. 

I don't have any projects coming up soon, but if a longer sanding session shows different results, I'll chime in again.

I had the same experience.  I’m using the Cubitron with my RO125 and ETSC125, having switched from Granat and Abranet.  The dust collection is just as good, but it seems as if the paper lasts longer.  In fact, I just called my Sherwin Williams rep and asked him to stock Cubitron so I can get it locally.

Offline jussi

  • Posts: 399
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2021, 09:20 PM »
Just did some red oak and a scrap of hemlock with 80+.  No swirlies, and dust collection is still excellent.  Even with Granat, if you wipe your hand on the board after sanding, you get a little bit of white dust on your fingers- it was the same with the Cubitron.  Nothing escaping the tool, nothing tangible on the surface afterward.  Surface texture was indistinguishable to my eyes.  A+++, would sand again.

ETS EC was set on 6.  CT26 cranked up about 10% from the lowest setting. 

I don't have any projects coming up soon, but if a longer sanding session shows different results, I'll chime in again.

I had the same experience.  I’m using the Cubitron with my RO125 and ETSC125, having switched from Granat and Abranet.  The dust collection is just as good, but it seems as if the paper lasts longer.  In fact, I just called my Sherwin Williams rep and asked him to stock Cubitron so I can get it locally.

Do most of the holes in the pad line up to the holes in the paper?  Roughly (ie more than half, 3/4, etc ?) how many holes line up?  The good dust collection is surprising to me.  Also when you put it on, do you have to do it a certain way to make most of the holes align?   Didn't think a paper that was not specifically designed to line up with a given sander pad would give good results.  I may give it a try. 

Thank you all for sharing your results.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 09:24 PM by jussi »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5290
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2021, 09:27 PM »
The holes in the Cubitron and Norton disks don’t match any sander pads but it doesn’t seem to matter, at least in the finer grits. The holes in Abranet are even smaller and also pad agnostic.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2021, 09:38 PM »
Do most of the holes in the pad line up to the holes in the paper?  Roughly (ie more than half, 3/4, etc ?) how many holes line up?  The good dust collection is surprising to me.  Also when you put it on, do you have to do it a certain way to make most of the holes align?   Didn't think a paper that was not specifically designed to line up with a given sander pad would give good results.  I may give it a try. 

Just believe in what Mother Mining has to offer...she'll not steer you wrong. Over the last 100 years she's had a stellar record.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5290
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2021, 09:49 PM »

Just believe in what Mother Mining has to offer...she'll not steer you wrong. Over the last 100 years she's had a stellar record.


So, what does the other M stand for  [poke]

I learned decades ago, if 3M sells something and you follow the directions, there is no doubt that it will do what they said it would.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2021, 10:03 PM »
So, what does the other M stand for  [poke]

I learned decades ago, if 3M sells something and you follow the directions, there is no doubt that it will do what they said it would.

Ya, big supporter of and previous employee of the company. Mother Mining may politically speak from both sides of her mouth, but technically, she issues forth only a single voice...that's the voice to listen to because that is what she is.  [smile]

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 776
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2021, 10:04 PM »

Just believe in what Mother Mining has to offer...she'll not steer you wrong. Over the last 100 years she's had a stellar record.


So, what does the other M stand for  [poke]

Heh.  [cool]

Just so our partners across the pond don't start to get all wonderin' about it, it officially stood for Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company.

Offline jussi

  • Posts: 399
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2021, 10:23 PM »
Alight guys I'm sold.    Where do you guys buy them from?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2021, 10:57 PM »
Just so our partners across the pond don't start to get all wonderin' about it, it officially stood for Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company.

Ya, it all started by harvesting corundum stone in Duluth Minnesota in 1902 to make sandpaper.

An interesting aside is that probably 80-90% of 3M's products are produced on a web. That's the reason web technology is so important. Tape, post-it-notes, ribbon, sandpaper, Scotch-Brite, random woven fibers are all a product of web technology and then slit to width and/or cut to length.


Offline jussi

  • Posts: 399
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2021, 12:19 AM »
Just saw this video and chart comparing different sandpaper including the cubitron



https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0091/2169/3747/files/Sanding_Review_Complete.pdf?v=1595430096

Offline HandyDen

  • Posts: 50
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2021, 09:05 PM »
Alight guys I'm sold.    Where do you guys buy them from?

I originally bought a "sampler" pack of 15 (3 each of 80, 120, 150, 180 and 220) for $7.50 on Amazon.  They also sell the 50 packs for about $42, or $.84/each.  But since the "sampler" packs end up costing $.50/each, I'm continuing to buy it that way for the moment.

Offline tsmi243

  • Posts: 113
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2021, 05:42 PM »
Quote
"sampler" pack of 15

Same here.  Some of the came with no holes, so I'm using those on sanding blocks.  The reviews elsewhere show Cubitron kicking the stuff out of the competition.  So far so good, but I'm not a pro.

Holes- they line up well enough, you really don't need to pay any attention.  Just slap it on and go.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 776
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2021, 12:00 PM »
Quote
"sampler" pack of 15

Same here. 

Do either of you have links to that listing or a part number or something?  Amazon's search algorithms, "sponsored" listings, etc. make it next to impossible to find things without a specific part number, and even then it can be pretty dodgy...

Offline jussi

  • Posts: 399
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2021, 12:16 PM »
Quote
"sampler" pack of 15

Same here. 

Do either of you have links to that listing or a part number or something?  Amazon's search algorithms, "sponsored" listings, etc. make it next to impossible to find things without a specific part number, and even then it can be pretty dodgy...

I didn't see the previous posts when I ordered and didn't know Amazon carried it so I ordered from Taylor toolworks.  They have 2 variations of the sampler pack.  80 - 220 and 240 - 400.   I ordered 1 of each and is supposed to arrive today.  They sell it for $10.99.  I only saw the 5" not sure if they carry 6" versions.

https://taytools.com/products/3m-775l-sanding-discs-cubiton-ii-hookit-hook-and-loop-attachment-clean-sand-multi-hole-dust-extraction-15-disc-multi-pack-80-400-gri7?variant=32003827466327

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 561
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2021, 12:42 PM »
Do either of you have links to that listing or a part number or something?  Amazon's search algorithms, "sponsored" listings, etc. make it next to impossible to find things without a specific part number, and even then it can be pretty dodgy...
I just found this.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Cubitron-Sanding-87338-Coating/dp/B07FGL2BC9/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2V6EXJ5MK4UMD&dchild=1&keywords=3m+775l+5%22+sanding+discs+15+disc+multi+pack+cubitron+ii+hookit&qid=1619282391&sprefix=3m+775l%2Caps%2C158&sr=8-2

3M Cubitron II Hookit Clean Sanding Film Disc 775L

Offline afish

  • Posts: 601
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2021, 01:08 PM »
Do either of you have links to that listing or a part number or something?  Amazon's search algorithms, "sponsored" listings, etc. make it next to impossible to find things without a specific part number, and even then it can be pretty dodgy...
I just found this.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Cubitron-Sanding-87338-Coating/dp/B07FGL2BC9/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2V6EXJ5MK4UMD&dchild=1&keywords=3m+775l+5%22+sanding+discs+15+disc+multi+pack+cubitron+ii+hookit&qid=1619282391&sprefix=3m+775l%2Caps%2C158&sr=8-2

3M Cubitron II Hookit Clean Sanding Film Disc 775L

I was about to buy a few boxes of these but noticed the reviews say NO holes. Please beware

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 561
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2021, 01:10 PM »
I was about to buy a few boxes of these but noticed the reviews say NO holes. Please beware
Thats one good thing about Amazon.  If they aren't as pictured, they go back.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 601
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2021, 01:23 PM »
Yea Amazon is great with returns but I still try to eliminate as many bad/wrong purchases as possible.  However I did go to the 3M website and the 87338 discs which you linked to does list them as the "clean sanding discs" so I ordered one box to see. One review said they did have holes many said no so it sounds like its hit or miss. I will report back when they arrive.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 561
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2021, 03:49 PM »
I got the impression they used to be hole-less but a lot of customer complaints got it fixed.  Fingers crossed.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.



Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron II with Festool sanders
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2021, 11:45 AM »
5" Cubitron II discs cost just 30 cents each when purchased in trial multi packs. They cost 80 cents each when purchased in 25-packs.




I'm using them to sand teak furniture and prefer them over Granat discs. They seem to have a lot longer life.  The 3M ceramic abrasives are attached to a film backing while the Granat uses a paper backing.


Offline afish

  • Posts: 601
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2021, 01:26 PM »
the cubitron is way better but i do notice a small loss in dust extraction. You also have to be careful with that film backing when its spinning it can cut you like a razor. I was thinkng of making a punch to put the main festool holes in it.

Offline GregorHochschild

  • Posts: 19
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2021, 03:05 PM »
Unfortunately, I don’t think there are 150 sample packs…

One problem I had with Cubitron is that they become loose and don’t stick to the sander anymore before the actual sandpaper is worn out. Anyone with the same problem?

Offline tsmi243

  • Posts: 113
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2021, 09:32 PM »
I had perfectly normal dust extraction, through several disc changes.  Then, suddenly, no dust extraction at all. 

Turns out, there IS a way to put the disc on that misses nearly every one of the dust holes.  It's honestly hard to find, but it's there. 

If you find a hole punch for a 125, let me know

Offline afish

  • Posts: 601
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2021, 10:42 PM »
The hole punch is something Im going to have to make not find. I was thinking two pieces of wood with the hole pattern drilled in it and then gluing some sharpened tubing in one half to create a male/female punch.  The film back concerns me a tad.  If it was paper back im sure it would work but that film seems pretty tough. 

Offline thorp

  • Posts: 9
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2021, 01:01 AM »
Something like this would probably work to punch holes, albeit a slow method.

https://www.harborfreight.com/9-piece-hollow-punch-set-3838.html

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2021, 10:18 AM »
Here's something interesting.

Here's some Cubitron II 180 grit after sanding teak for about 10-15 minutes. I'm using an ETSC 125 with an ERGO power adapter and a MIDI on max suction. Some of the sawdust is even with the top of the sanding disc.








I just received some Cubitron II in the 6" size, it'll be interesting to see how the dust collection is with the additional holes in the 6" sanding pad.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2021, 10:07 AM »
Here's the same dust evacuation test only using the ETS EC 125 with a 150 mm pad. Same MIDI vac and hose with the suction on max. The only thing that was changed was the sander.

There's a huge difference in dust collection because of all the additional holes in the 150 mm pad.






Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5290
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2021, 11:06 AM »
Off topic but I used some of these disks on a lathe turning. It was cool to see the streams of dust shooting out of the little holes.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 601
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2021, 12:33 PM »
Yes the 150 looks much better.  You can actually see on the 125 pad many of the holes dont line up with the paper. It still has adequate dust collection but I can tell its not as good as festool paper but performance wise the 3m is hard to beat.   

Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2021, 09:35 PM »
Here is a new sanding disk showdown video from Katz-Moses. Looks pretty conclusive that the new Cubitron II Net sanding disks from 3M are the best. Looks like it is longer lasting, better price and they fixed the extraction problem.



Does anyone have any direct experience with these? I'm gonna try to order some online so when they finally arrive I'll give y'all some feedback.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 09:40 PM by John van Houten »

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 776
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2021, 11:05 PM »
Here is a new sanding disk showdown video from Katz-Moses. Looks pretty conclusive that the new Cubitron II Net sanding disks from 3M are the best. Looks like it is longer lasting, better price and they fixed the extraction problem.

Does anyone have any direct experience with these? I'm gonna try to order some online so when they finally arrive I'll give y'all some feedback.

 [eek] [eek] [eek]

Holy buckets.

It appears that, at least for the Festool, he used the 10-packs, which are the most expensive, to determine his cost/gram removed.  I'll say that's fair as long as he went with the most expensive packaging option for each brand's consumable.

One of my gripes with Festool's paper is how they package their selections, and how the discs drop from $1.60/disc in a 10-pack to $.84/disc in a 50-pack and $.65/disc in a 100-pack (never mind most of their selections have no 50-pack option).

Wish this video had been out when Grizzly was dropping Festool; I'd probably have a lot less Festool paper and a lot more 3M in my garage, since I overstocked up on Festool at that time.

Anyone know the lifespan of the net protection pad that you need to have to use mesh paper on Festool?  That might eat into the price difference considerably if you have to replace the interface all the time (although obviously still cheaper than replacing the pad itself if you forget to use the protector).
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 11:12 PM by squall_line »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2021, 12:03 AM »
A very interesting test...not that far off from what we've discussed here on the FOG lately. Most of our current abrasive evaluations have been gut feel while this one elevates the discussion to some practical standards that we as a forum, would be hard pressed to institute without some outside funding.

The only issue that raises my radar antennae is this photo of the robot in action.



Why would this label be attached to the sanding robot? I worked as an engineer for 3M for 8 years so I still feel some kinmanship towards the company, however this photo strikes me as just plain wrong if unprejudiced analytical evaluation is the desired outcome.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7665
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2021, 02:41 AM »
It appears that, at least for the Festool, he used the 10-packs, which are the most expensive, to determine his cost/gram removed.  I'll say that's fair as long as he went with the most expensive packaging option for each brand's consumable.

One of my gripes with Festool's paper is how they package their selections, and how the discs drop from $1.60/disc in a 10-pack to $.84/disc in a 50-pack and $.65/disc in a 100-pack (never mind most of their selections have no 50-pack option).

A very valid point. You can't buy 3M Cubitron in small packs, so that makes the cost go down considerably. In Festool's case it is almost, or over 50% as you calculated. "People will poke holes in any test you do", looks like you found a big one.


The only issue that raises my radar antennae is this photo of the robot in action.

.........

Why would this label be attached to the sanding robot?

I think the test guys had nothing to do with that and the 3M sticker was there because the robot guys developped the robot in conjunction with 3M. Because 3M is such a big company that makes so many quality products, many people in related fields regard them as the standard. You can't develop a sanding robot without a good supply of sandpaper.


Quote
From video: Mesh is the future

Until you put it on a real world objects with edges, nooks, crannies and corners, and see it disintegrate in seconds. What's the point of having it cut forever on a flat plane if the first edge you find tears it up? I've had some experience the last year with Granat and Mirka mesh discs, and some other brands, and I am very not impressed.

But I am very anxious to try out the non-mesh version of Cubitron, unfortunately it is not sold by a lot of dealers here yet.

Disappointed in the Makita disc result. I just bought €100 in discs last week for our 225mm wall sander because it was the only brand I could find in my city. I really hope they use a different formula here.

Also disappointed they didn't include Indasa in the test, but maybe it is not available in the States? I find it very cost effective compared to Festool paper, costing only 50% of Festool Granat.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2295
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2021, 05:14 AM »
I think Jonathan mentioned in the video that the supplier he had linked to in the description would break down the packs and sell less than a full pack.

It does make me wonder when it says "Optimized for 3M Cubitron" what that optimization means to the other brands of paper and their performance. Disc RPM and applied downforce might be where they have optimized the robot. Other than the stroke of the random orbit action I don't see what could be tweaked except extraction air flow CFM.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1521
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2021, 07:05 AM »
Alex - Indasa USA has a strong presence online here, but I don't think I have ever seen it in a retail outlet. There are a few distributors plus Amazon carries some of the line. I usually get mine from https://indasa-direct.com/

Ron
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 07:09 AM by rvieceli »

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 838
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2021, 08:20 AM »
My beef with Katz-Moses’ video/test is that it is based on "grams of material taken off". I think that the result in the sense of "how does the surface look like", eg is it flat, is it evenly in structure, how visible are swirl marks, etc. is more important to a woodworker…
This test doesn’t take that into account, so I take it with lots of grains of salt.

Sidenote: the number 1 product (3M XTract Cubitron II (mesh)) is extremely hard to obtain, esp. over here in Europe. And I find it surprising that Mirka Autonet (aimed at the automotive market!) ended up as number 4...
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 · MFT/3 + TSB1-MW 1000 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 · OF2200 · CMS-GE · Vecturo 18 Li · TID 18 · TKS 80 EBS-Set · DTS 400 · ETS EC 125 w 150 pad · Surfix Set · CTL SYS · CT-VA-20 · … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer: A3 31 Silent Power · N4400 · HS950 | TaigaTools: VacPods Pro Set
On order: … [ ! ]

Offline tsmi243

  • Posts: 113
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2021, 11:29 AM »
My beef with Katz-Moses’ video/test is that it is based on "grams of material taken off". I think that the result in the sense of "how does the surface look like", eg is it flat, is it evenly in structure, how visible are swirl marks, etc. is more important to a woodworker…
This test doesn’t take that into account, so I take it with lots of grains of salt.



But then you'd be complaining about how subjective the test was.....


Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 838
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2021, 11:38 AM »
There must be scientific means for measuring smoothness etc. So that would not be subjective, right?
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 · MFT/3 + TSB1-MW 1000 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 · OF2200 · CMS-GE · Vecturo 18 Li · TID 18 · TKS 80 EBS-Set · DTS 400 · ETS EC 125 w 150 pad · Surfix Set · CTL SYS · CT-VA-20 · … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer: A3 31 Silent Power · N4400 · HS950 | TaigaTools: VacPods Pro Set
On order: … [ ! ]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2021, 11:44 AM »
There must be scientific means for measuring smoothness etc. So that would not be subjective, right?

The same way you measure surface roughness on metal. And they now have no-contact vision comparators to make measurements easier & faster.

It's used in the automotive industry to measure the mating surfaces of heads & engine blocks on the fly. There's no longer a need to send the items to QA for analysis, it just becomes another part/step of the production line milling operation...it only takes a couple of seconds.

https://nanovea.com/profilometry-roughness-finish/
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 12:47 PM by Cheese »

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7665
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2021, 12:35 PM »
There must be scientific means for measuring smoothness etc. So that would not be subjective, right?

Yes, the official SI unit is mountains per square meter, but they're still arguing about it.  [tongue]

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5290
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2021, 01:34 PM »
There must be scientific means for measuring smoothness etc. So that would not be subjective, right?

Yes, the official SI unit is mountains per square meter, but they're still arguing about it.  [tongue]

Arguing or counting? Square millimeter seems more practical.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7665
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2021, 01:46 PM »
There must be scientific means for measuring smoothness etc. So that would not be subjective, right?

Yes, the official SI unit is mountains per square meter, but they're still arguing about it.  [tongue]

Arguing or counting? Square millimeter seems more practical.

Sounds like you'd fit right into the debate.  [smile]

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 495
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2021, 03:04 PM »
If one buys the Diablo mesh discs on sale ( which is frequent) they jump almost to the very top of the cost per gram metric, coming in just behind the new Cubitron mesh.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2295
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2021, 04:35 PM »
If one buys the Diablo mesh discs on sale ( which is frequent) they jump almost to the very top of the cost per gram metric, coming in just behind the new Cubitron mesh.

A valid point. And who's to say the new Cubitron will remain at this low price point. If you want to introduce a new product and steal market share away from the competition which has already established their portion the best way to do that is make your product more attractive. So you either bring it out at a low price point until you get them 'hooked'. Then six months or a year later the price starts climbing. Or you include some bonus with the product to make it's purchase more enticing.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Chainring

  • Posts: 108
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2021, 05:32 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't an interface pad be used with the mesh products? If so, there's another cost and consumable.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 776
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2021, 07:10 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't an interface pad be used with the mesh products? If so, there's another cost and consumable.

You are correct; I asked a similar question above somewhere during my long rambling

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2295
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2021, 09:15 PM »
Which pad is the correct one to use for mesh paper?

The 492271 StickFix Interface Pad or something else.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2021, 09:54 PM »
Which pad is the correct one to use for mesh paper?

The 492271 StickFix Interface Pad or something else.

Festool offers a series of protection pads. They're all about 1/8" thick.

203344 = 125 series
203343 = 150 series
203346 = RTS series
203347 = DTS series

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 152
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2021, 11:06 PM »
Which pad is the correct one to use for mesh paper?

The 492271 StickFix Interface Pad or something else.

No, that's for following curves/round overs etc. You want a 'pad saver', which protects the hook and loop from damage caused by the mesh. They're a disposable item, available from Mirka.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2295
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #62 on: September 09, 2021, 05:44 AM »
Thanks Cheese and Lincoln. Sounds like a trip to Woodcraft is in order.

Only bad part is I'll probably come home with more than just the pad.  [big grin]

Haven't been to Woodcraft in over a year with the pandemic. Might be
time to take a trip over the bridge into Delaware. It's 35 miles one way
and a $5 bridge toll so I have to make it worth my while. I don't think
there is a Woodcraft in all of NJ.

Update: Glad I called before I headed over there as they have none in stock
so I order off the web. Should be here by Saturday. They come two to a pack
for $13.00
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 09:36 PM by Bob D. »
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline afish

  • Posts: 601
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #63 on: September 09, 2021, 08:51 AM »
Which pad is the correct one to use for mesh paper?

The 492271 StickFix Interface Pad or something else.

Not sure about others but the last time I got some Diablo mesh it came with an interface pad in the package.  I agree with Alex however I was not impressed with the Diablo mesh I dont remember exactly what I was sanding but I do remember once it hit a corner or edge it disintegrates fast

I use and love the film backed Cubitron paper. It is the only sandpaper I buy now.  I will say on some sanders such as ETS 125 Req I feel like the dust collection does suffer a bit with the film backed disks.  No fancy scientific tests were done to come to that conclusion just my personal and objective observation.  Im going to give the cube mesh a try and really, really hope its more durable than the Diablo.  If so it could be the perfect disc if it performs like in the KM video. 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2021, 10:20 AM »
I use and love the film backed Cubitron paper. It is the only sandpaper I buy now.  I will say on some sanders such as ETS 125 Req I feel like the dust collection does suffer a bit with the film backed disks.  No fancy scientific tests were done to come to that conclusion just my personal and objective observation. 

Here's a recent example on teak outdoor furniture. The results are pretty obvious. Once I get back to this teak sanding project, I'll try attaching the MIDI to the ETSC and look at those results. 

1. An ETSC 125 with only the vacuum bag
2. An ETS EC 125/150 with a MIDI 1 attached.










« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 10:22 AM by Cheese »

Offline afish

  • Posts: 601
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2021, 10:27 AM »
are you saying you think the dust collection with the 3m cube is just as good as with granat?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8906
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2021, 10:50 AM »
are you saying you think the dust collection with the 3m cube is just as good as with granat?

For the ETSC 125 if you're using the dust bag and relying on the internal vac fan on the sander, the larger diameter Granat holes do a lot better job.

For the ETS EC while using Cubitron I also cranked up the amount of suction on the MIDI and that now does as well as the Granat.

It will be interesting to attach the MIDI to the ETSC 125 and see if that helps dust extraction. I think it will I just don't know how much. I think you're also somewhat limited because of the number of holes in the 5" pad versus the 6" pad.

The 5" has 9 large holes and that's it.
The 6" has 16 large holes, 16 medium holes and 38 small holes.

Offline jussi

  • Posts: 399
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2021, 11:05 AM »
Thanks for the review cheese. I have an ets ec 150 and Etsy 125.  I only had the 5” Cubitron but recently ordered the 6”.  I have a ct 26 so I’m curious to see how well the dc will perform with larger diameter discs and larger sander.  The 5” was ok but not great for me.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 11:44 AM by jussi »

Offline guybo

  • Posts: 146
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2021, 09:23 PM »
good review

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 495
Re: Cubitron with Festool sanders
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2021, 09:47 PM »
Quote
Not sure about others but the last time I got some Diablo mesh it came with an interface pad in the package.  I agree with Alex however I was not impressed with the Diablo mesh I dont remember exactly what I was sanding but I do remember once it hit a corner or edge it disintegrates fast

Diablo’s interface pad doesn’t work (actually align) with Festool’s hole patterns.  You’ll need to use Festool’s interface pads with whatever brand mesh abrasive you choose if you want the dust collection to function properly.

Mesh disintegrates when you hit a sharp or rough edge, or metal nail, screw, ect.  Matters not whether the disc is from Diablo, Mirka , or Festool.  It’s one of the drawbacks of the type.

Is it the best?   Prob. not, but at roughly 35cents a disc on sale it’s a top contender for value.