Author Topic: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510  (Read 2045 times)

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Offline jussi

  • Posts: 408
CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« on: September 30, 2021, 09:48 PM »
I was kind of all set to pull the trigger on the onefinity when I found a really good deal on a nearly new shark HD510.  I know the seller well and am confident it is in like new condition.  The shark will end up being around $600 more when factoring in shipping for the onefinity.  I will also have to make a base/spoil board for the onefinity.  The shark already has one.  Neither include a router but the shark can use a variety including midsized routers while the onefinity can only be used with the makita trim router.  But in the future I plan on upgrading to a water cooled spindle so I'm not sure it matters.  Any advice from experienced users?

https://www.onefinitycnc.com/product-page/onefinity-woodworker-1



https://www.rockler.com/next-wave-shark-hd510


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Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 1000
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2021, 11:13 PM »
I have seen both. I ordered the onefinity. I have a a great deal of experience with CNC machines. The real question is how do you plan on using the machines. Do you have the metrics equipment to run and check output?  They are much different in size. CNC machines are more expensive to actually run than people think. Making spoil boards is a staple in the CNC router world. So do not let that be a deciding factor.

Offline WillAdams

  • Posts: 108
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2021, 08:30 AM »
(ob. discl., I work for a competitor)

May I ask why these two machines are being considered?

What sort of work do you wish to do?

Did you consider the warranty for the respective machines? Look over the documentation?

In what way do you wish to approach it, using what software?

If you really want a spindle, there are machines available which have them preinstalled.

FWIW, my recommendation for folks considering a CNC is that they first decide on a project representative of the sort of work which they wish to do and then:

 - draw it up in a CAD tool
 - decide on what material(s) it will be fashioned from
 - import the design into a CAM tool
 - determine what tooling would be used to cut the parts out, and at what feeds and speeds
 - assign Toolpaths
 - simulate the cutting/G-Code in 3D, ideally both in the CAM program and after writing out the file(s) in a 3rd party G-Code previewer

EDIT: if one is successful w/ that, and finds it a workable technique, then one will likely be successful w/ a CNC.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2021, 10:01 AM by WillAdams »

Offline jussi

  • Posts: 408
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2021, 08:53 AM »
Thanks for the replies. I had a price range of about $3000 and reading up on the different machines in that range it seemed like onefinity was the best in class.  Until the used shark came to my attention.  The previous owner has only had it for a few months and I believe the warranty is transferable.  But I probably should look at the warranty details more closely to see what's covered.

Initially I'll be just using the machine for myself but eventually I'd like to small repeatable projects to sell.  Cutting boards, mailboxes, not really sure yet.  The owner of the shark is a friend and the reason he's selling is because he made enough money from it that he decided to get a bigger machine from avid.  I have limited experience with cnc having owned a craftsman carvewright.  But they use their own design program and it's much simpler and dumbed down.  I'm starting to learn fusion 360 now and hopefully will use that in the future. 

Offline WillAdams

  • Posts: 108
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2021, 09:32 AM »
Fusion 360 works well for folks doing 3D/mechanical CAD (and some folks get decorative work out of it). We have some notes on setting it up at:

https://docs.carbide3d.com/software-faq/fusion360/

We (I work for Carbide 3d) bundle a program which we make freely available: Carbide Create (which is often recommended for use on the Onefinity Forums and by our other competitors) --- it's useful to get started and acquainted w/ the concepts, and there's an optional Pro mode which adds 3D modeling and toolpaths and an engraving mode. Some folks doing woodworking get Vectric software.

You may find:

https://willadams.gitbook.io/design-into-3d/2d-drawing

of interest if you're not familiar w/ vector drawing and CAD concepts, and see:

https://docs.carbide3d.com/tutorials/#shapeoko-tutorials

if you want some starter projects.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2021, 10:00 AM by WillAdams »

Offline jussi

  • Posts: 408
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2021, 12:16 PM »
I have seen both. I ordered the onefinity. I have a a great deal of experience with CNC machines. The real question is how do you plan on using the machines. Do you have the metrics equipment to run and check output?  They are much different in size. CNC machines are more expensive to actually run than people think. Making spoil boards is a staple in the CNC router world. So do not let that be a deciding factor.

Ok I think I’ve settled on the onefinity. Just 2 decisions now and wondering if u guys can help with it

1. Should I go with the journeyman or woodworker model. 48” vs 32” capacity. Right now 32” seems fine but I would hate to regret the decision. Have u guys had occasion where you needed the extra capacity.

2. Should I buy the qcw (1f base) or make my own. Would sourcing the individual parts be much more cost effective or will it be about the same. And even if it is the same price could I build something better myself (ur more rigid structure with more holding options)? If I build myself what is a good supplier to source the material.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2389
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2021, 01:42 PM »
Not sure but I think the only difference is the length of the X rail. The attached PDF from Onefinity I downloaded a while back and it gives the depth of both machines as 45-3/8.

If that is true you could get the Woodworker model and 'upgrade' to the Journeymen by just getting the longer X rail. Of course you'd need to spread the Y rails and potentially need a larger table if it was a tight fit. I think the Journeyman is ~61 inches wide (see attached).
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2389
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2021, 06:21 AM »
I came across this comparison of the Onefinity with some other CNC of roughly equal price.

https://www.myerswoodshop.com/blog/onefinityvsshapeoko
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline WillAdams

  • Posts: 108
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2021, 11:16 AM »
Yeah, you should look up the history of the guy who wrote that, including the memetic video.

Here's a different link:

https://old.reddit.com/r/hobbycnc/comments/puq42c/please_help_me_find_which_cnc_is_for_me/he6e2c5/

which is a bit more reasoned and nuanced.

and see the full discussion at:

https://old.reddit.com/r/hobbycnc/comments/puq42c/please_help_me_find_which_cnc_is_for_me/

Offline Eagle

  • Posts: 17
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2021, 04:35 PM »
If you are still researching, look into Avid CNC as well. Their benchtop pro models are really good and so are their regular Pro CNC models.


Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 1000
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2021, 05:11 AM »
Quote from: tallgrass on September 30, 2021, 10:13 PM
I have seen both. I ordered the onefinity. I have a a great deal of experience with CNC machines. The real question is how do you plan on using the machines. Do you have the metrics equipment to run and check output?  They are much different in size. CNC machines are more expensive to actually run than people think. Making spoil boards is a staple in the CNC router world. So do not let that be a deciding factor.

Ok I think I’ve settled on the onefinity. Just 2 decisions now and wondering if u guys can help with it

1. Should I go with the journeyman or woodworker model. 48” vs 32” capacity. Right now 32” seems fine but I would hate to regret the decision. Have u guys had occasion where you needed the extra capacity.

2. Should I buy the qcw (1f base) or make my own. Would sourcing the individual parts be much more cost effective or will it be about the same. And even if it is the same price could I build something better myself (ur more rigid structure with more holding options)? If I build myself what is a good supplier to source the material.

If you can swing it get the 48", for the simple reason that you can process a full sheet of plywood without breaking it down. Also these machines can almost never be too big. Within reason. Also remember the dimensions do not necessarily reflect the cutting area. What tends to happen is, when you get more experience , your eyes grow along with your projects. As far as building your own base. If you can afford it buy the base. If this is your first time, remove as many hurdles as you can in the beginning . you have enough to learn.


Offline mattgam

  • Posts: 35
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2021, 03:35 PM »
I'd also add that in the $3000 price point you should look at cnc4newbies (ignore the name they make beefy machines) and carbide3d.    3k will get you a nice machine from either.  Onefinity does now have an 80mm spindle mount which can be used in lieu of a router and carbide3d and cnc4newbies also have spindle mount options.

I've owned too many hobby level CNCs and my advice is focus on the support and the user communities.  Carbide3d does top notch support and has excellent user forums and facebook group. Carbide3d also has years long track record of quality support. Cnc4newbies recently beefed up their tech support so less history there, and has a solid facebook group, but no in-house forum for community help.  Onefinity is a newer product with rather long lead times.  Their user community on facebook is very active and they have so far been praised on their support but the machines are new so not a ton of history obviously on long term support.  AVID machines are fantastic but when you get done adding all the options a 2'x4' CNC is going to run you 7-8k easily even if they base price is $3999.  AVID is also not a consumer level machine so it isn't what you'd  call an apples to apples comparison

As Will said, size the machine to what you think your normal project is.  You will always want bigger thats for sure, but cost grows a  lot with size due to needing to maintain rigidity. 

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2389
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2021, 08:58 PM »
There seems to be a few who made the switch and are glad they did. Granted this is off the
Onefinity forum but they all switched to the Onefinity from some other make. Why. They had
hands-on time with their previous machine before buying the Onefinity. They must have been
something that convinced them to sell their current CNC or to buy the Onefinity as a second
machine over buying a second of what they already had.

I am sure the Onefinity has it's growing pains. I know it does now because I have been on their
forum reading about the problems that people are having getting started. Sometimes it's just
operator error and on occasion it's been a mechanical issue. I'm sure every CNC startup including
Shapeoko has gone through this.

They are shipping on average 200 to 400 orders a week. Not all of those are complete CNC machines
I'm sure. Some are probably upgrade kits or optional parts that people are ordering to move past a
compact router and on to a 2.2KW spindle, the 7W laser, or looking to get the new folding/rolling
stand they just released.

https://forum.onefinitycnc.com/t/did-you-switch-from-a-shapeoko/3258/6
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline WillAdams

  • Posts: 108
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2021, 09:34 AM »
A big difference is how the companies treat the errors of a new user.

The Carbide 3D policy (I work for Carbide 3D) was announced here:

https://carbide3d.com/blog/mistakes-are-on-us/

I'll leave it to the reader to look up the Onefinity policy (the typos drive me nuts, and I get angry whenever I see a spot in their documentation where they plagiarized w/o permission or attribution from the Shapeoko wiki).
« Last Edit: November 03, 2021, 07:58 AM by WillAdams »

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2389
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2021, 04:15 PM »
A big difference is how the companies treat the errors of a new user.

The Carbide 3D policy was announced here:

https://carbide3d.com/blog/mistakes-are-on-us/

I'll leave it to the reader to look up the Onefinity policy (the typos drive me nuts, and I get angry whenever I see a spot in their documentation where they plagiarized w/o permission or attribution from the Shapeoko wiki).

You forgot to include your " (I work for Carbide 3d) " so everyone can fully understand your perspective.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline WillAdams

  • Posts: 108
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2021, 07:59 AM »
Good point. I'd mentioned it previously I'd thought, but have edited my post.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 831
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2021, 11:01 AM »
I have been looking into the Onefinity cnc for my home shop too. I like the size and rigidity of the tubular system.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 1062
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2021, 03:42 AM »
I've been looking at the Longmill.  The biggest Longmill is 30x30 so the Journyman is a good deal bigger.  People are having some success with tiling.  The price for the 30x30 including dust shoe, touch plate and inductive sensor kit for homing and limiting X and Y is $1334.  Two to three week lead time.


« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 03:44 AM by fshanno »
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2389
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2021, 05:51 AM »
I've been looking at the Longmill.  The biggest Longmill is 30x30 so the Journyman is a good deal bigger.  People are having some success with tiling.  The price for the 30x30 including dust shoe, touch plate and inductive sensor kit for homing and limiting X and Y is $1334.  Two to three week lead time.

The Onefinity Woodworker model is closer in size to the Longmill you are looking at. It is ~32x32 cutting area. The price on their website has it at just under $2400 with a 6 to 8 week (minimum) lead time. To that you'll need to add the cost of the Makita trim router which can be found for about $80 on Amazon.

So longer wait and more money for the Onefinity, but don't make your decision on those two factors alone.

You can get a Shapeoko 4 XXL(starts at $2300) or the Shapeoko Pro XXL(starts at $2800) which right now includes the router and according to their website ships within a few days so basically zero wait.

https://shop.carbide3d.com/collections/machines/products/shapeoko-pro-cnc-router
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline WillAdams

  • Posts: 108
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2021, 08:41 AM »
Please note the Shapeoko is available on a Black Friday sale (ob. discl., I work for Carbide 3D)

https://carbide3d.com/blog/black-friday-2021/

shipping times will pick up, and the sale won't apply as items go out of stock.

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 1062
Re: CNC comparison Onefinity vs shark 510
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2021, 10:42 PM »
From what I can see the Onefinity Journeyman is the best in class among commercial offerings for these trim router hobbyist machines.  The ease of operation, robustness, drop dead simple assemble.  The 48" X axis is very tempting.  But....

In the 30x30 size machines the Longmill is doing about what the others do and doing it for $1000 less.  Also they are about to start shipping a plug and play laser setup for less than $400.

I think I'm about to pull the trigger on a Longmill because it fits in better with my long term plan. 

My plan is get really proficient with the Longmill.  Add a vertical table for joinery.  This and that.  If I'm really doing well with it and utilizing it a lot I'm going to upgrade to an AVID 4x4 or maybe even 4x8, and I'll put that other $1000 there.  The AVID is not an industrial machine but it's super versatile and pretty powerful with their spindle.  You can easily add a 4th rotary axis.  And you can get a water table for it and add plasma cutting capability right on the same gantry. 

I'll just put it in a ventilated container and dedicate the LongMill to laser work.
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.