Author Topic: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop  (Read 110771 times)

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Offline Ajax

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Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« on: March 16, 2015, 11:51 PM »
http://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/power/corded/saws/bosch-reaxx-table-saw-gts1041a-preview/14811/

Interesting stuff.  Looks like Bosch will have a contractor saw with this technology very soon.

Competition is good.  Kudos to Bosch.
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Offline sae

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2015, 12:02 AM »
Hope Bosch has the legal team prepped (frivolous or not).

Offline Paul G

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2015, 12:58 AM »
"A brake then stops the blade—from the sides, not through a destructive mechanism—"

"What’s more, you can reset the GTS1041A system after deployment in just under a minute!"

Sounds very interesting, hope they offer it in a cabinet grade saw to really compete with sawstop.
+1

Offline vkumar

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2015, 01:23 AM »
Hope Bosch has the legal team prepped (frivolous or not).
You gotta be kidding. Bosch has a market capitalization of $ 834 billion. I am sure they have enough lawyers to fight any lawsuits frivolous or not.

Vijay
Vijay Kumar

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2015, 02:03 AM »
Hope Bosch has the legal team prepped (frivolous or not).

I wouldn't be so quick to assume. Bosch got patents on this stuff 5 years ago.

I really like that it doesn't destroy the blade.

Offline Wooden Skye

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2015, 02:12 AM »
With Bosch being a company that understands the licensing of technology and innovation, hopefully they will get licensing deals with the major makers of cabinet saws.

I like the blade isn't destroyed as well. 

The funny part of the review was that after you set off the technology 25 times the saw needs to be taken to service center.  My first thought was maybe you should stop after setting off 2 or 3 times.  I know that on a job site many people could use, but then a better training plan is in order.
Bryan

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Offline GhostFist

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2015, 05:29 AM »
Sounds like a good system

Offline Sean Ackerman

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2015, 08:43 AM »
I'm not so sure the blade won't be destroyed, though I'm not familiar with the details yet.  Flat out, if a blade is spinning at the rpms produced by a table saw and it's stopped, no matter the mechanism, chances are that sucker will be out of true.
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Offline Sean Ackerman

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2015, 08:46 AM »
Well there's my answer.  Read the article more clearly.  Seems the blade is stopped once it's retracted, not all in one step a la Sawstop.  Wise.  This means the blade can be stopped at any speed that the manufacturer sees fit, hence not causing damage or affecting the integrity of the blade.
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Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2015, 08:53 AM »
I like it.  I particularly like that the blade is not destroyed.

I've considered purchasing the Saw Stop job-site saw, and still might do so, but I will now wait to see what Bosch has to offer.

I hope that this competition from Bosch will force down Saw Stop prices.  So, even if I go with Saw Stop in the end, I will wait a while to see if their prices come down.

Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline thedude306

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2015, 09:07 AM »
Looks interesting and promising.  My only thought was the tolerances on the mechanism to drop and get out of the way that fast.  That's a lot of force on a set of bearings or what ever it is.  And to be able to reset at the same level of accuracy will be impressive.  I hope to see it as a licensing agreement as well.   Competition is always good.  Can't wait to see the price point.

Oh, and I can't wait to see where else this system show up, with it dropping the mechanism, I think you might see it in router lifts, shapers, jointers etc. 

 
Brad T.

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2015, 09:08 AM »
At first glance, I'm very positively impressed by the Bosch offering.  I'm also delighted that there is now some real competition for SawStop.  It's about time!!! 

- Willy -

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Offline ali

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2015, 09:08 AM »
Will be following this for sure, SawStop missed a trick never penetrating the overseas market. I hope Bosch release this worldwide

Offline anthonyz

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2015, 09:23 AM »
Would be great if they could figure out a way to make an upgrade kit for cabinet saws. I know this wouldn't be easy, but I'm sure people would love to upgrade their saws if they didn't have to buy a new saw. a $400-$500 upgrade would be easier for people to jump on rather than a $2500+ saw upgrade. Yes, I understand you will save money if you don't cut off a finger, but some people just don't have $2500 to spend if they already have a saw. I like the idea of the Bosch design over the saw stop, but I want a cabinet saw and not a job site saw in my shop.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2015, 09:32 AM »

...

I like the idea of the Bosch design over the saw stop, but I want a cabinet saw and not a job site saw in my shop.

I am not at all concerned about the safety of the General 650 cabinet saw in my woodworking shed where I am the one who uses the saw 95% of the time and I can enforce good table saw safety upon any others who use it from time to time.

On the other hand, when I am working at a job site, other people who I have much less control of and who tend to have less experience with power tools, may be using the saw.  So it's a safe3 job site saw that I am looking for.  The type of job-site work I often participate in involves volunteers in a building-bee kind of thing.
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Online Cheese

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2015, 11:45 AM »
Sign me up for this one. I already have a Bosch 4100 and I really like it for the money. So basically this ReaXX is a 4100 with a blade dropping/stopping mechanism and it doesn't destroy the blade. Sweet. [cool]

If this saw lives up to its hype, this will be a game changer for Bosch. Especially if they keep the price to the $900-$1000 range.

Offline RL

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2015, 11:51 AM »
Hope Bosch has the legal team prepped (frivolous or not).
You gotta be kidding. Bosch has a market capitalization of $ 834 billion. I am sure they have enough lawyers to fight any lawsuits frivolous or not.

Vijay

Er, I think you're confusing the Indian listed company with the private German company Robert Bosch Gmbh which makes tools, auto parts, home appliances etc. At around 60 rupees to the dollar, that would make the market cap of the company you quoted around US$13 billion, which makes a little more sense rather than it being the largest company in the world!

 [smile]

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2015, 12:16 PM »
It is good that other vendors are getting into the safety market. Competition seems to enhance products.

I now own a Sawstop Industrial saw that replaced a very nice old Delta Unisaw that I owned for over 20 years. The Sawstop safety feature was the thing that got me interested in replacing the Unisaw. My dealer had Powermatic, General, and other new saws that I examined closely before settling on the Sawstop.

To my eyes, the fit, finish, engineering, and build quality of the Sawstop was far better than its competitors. After owning the Sawstop for 18 months, I remain impressed with the machine.

I say all this to emphasize that Sawstop's competitors will have to compete on not just the safety feature, but on all aspects of the machine.
Birdhunter

Offline vkumar

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2015, 12:25 PM »
Still $ 13 billion is not small potatoes.

Hope Bosch has the legal team prepped (frivolous or not).
You gotta be kidding. Bosch has a market capitalization of $ 834 billion. I am sure they have enough lawyers to fight any lawsuits frivolous or not.

Vijay

Er, I think you're confusing the Indian listed company with the private German company Robert Bosch Gmbh which makes tools, auto parts, home appliances etc. At around 60 rupees to the dollar, that would make the market cap of the company you quoted around US$13 billion, which makes a little more sense rather than it being the largest company in the world!

 [smile]
Vijay Kumar

Offline Sean Ackerman

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2015, 01:14 PM »
Sign me up for this one. I already have a Bosch 4100 and I really like it for the money. So basically this ReaXX is a 4100 with a blade dropping/stopping mechanism and it doesn't destroy the blade. Sweet. [cool]

If this saw lives up to its hype, this will be a game changer for Bosch. Especially if they keep the price to the $900-$1000 range.

Agreed, would be fantastic to see them retrofit this into the 4100 or similar model.  The new DeWalt saws have the 4100 beat in a few fit 'n finish, ergonomics and modernity areas, but this would be a game changer. 
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Offline Alex

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2015, 01:38 PM »
Bosch annual turnover is somewhere around $50 billion. They must have some dough in an old sock lying around somewhere for a lawyer or two.
 
I find this very good news. It is ridiculous that such important technology would be limited to one company who chooses to have very limited market penetration. For instance, SawStop doesn't even sell in Europe.   

Offline wow

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2015, 01:46 PM »
I think this is GREAT NEWS. Bosch certainly has the credentials to pull this off, and I like their technology MUCH better than what is on the Saw Stop. The thought that you could have the safety mechanism activate without costing $60 every time AND without wrecking the blade is HUGE!

Thinking about the blade brake after activation made me smile, as I just put new brake rotors on Mrs. WOW's truck over the weekend. I bought the best ones I could find...and they were made by Bosch!

 [thumbs up]
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Offline Frank Byers

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2015, 01:48 PM »
How about a video link...nothing online yet??

Online grbmds

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2015, 02:02 PM »
Glad to see competition for the Sawstop job site saw. However, Bosch would have a long way to go to get into the cabinet saw market. I'm always for competition. However, the fact that the blade is destroyed when the Sawstop brake is tripped isn't a big deal for me. The goal is not to trip it ever. Repetitive trips of the blade brake would be a red flag for me on my technique or, for a contractor, the people who use it. I can tell you that one close call touching the blade whether it's gone in an instant or not would be enough to make be even more careful than I already am. Maybe it's a good thing the blade is destroyed as a lesson. If you never touch the blade you most likely won't have to replace the blade or the brake cartridge in a regular shop environment.
Randy

Offline thedude306

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2015, 04:54 PM »
Glad to see competition for the Sawstop job site saw. However, Bosch would have a long way to go to get into the cabinet saw market.

My bet is Bosch markets/licenses it to the cabinet saw maker and keeps it in their own job site saws. (not a lot of crossover on cabinet saw manufactures and job site manufactures)    At least that would make sense to me. 
Brad T.

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2015, 05:19 PM »
Glad to see competition for the Sawstop job site saw. However, Bosch would have a long way to go to get into the cabinet saw market.

My bet is Bosch markets/licenses it to the cabinet saw maker and keeps it in their own job site saws. (not a lot of crossover on cabinet saw manufactures and job site manufactures)    At least that would make sense to me. 

I agree 100%. I don't know of any large shop or machine tool that Bosch manufactures. Actually their job-site saw is probably the largest tool they do manufacture. And breaking into the large cabinet saw market would be  stretch.

Offline JimH2

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2015, 06:08 PM »
Competition is always good, so long as it does not kill SawStop. Other manufacturers of tablesaws will probably follow behind Bosch just to avoid lawsuits. This may also lead to elimination of the sale of cheap tablesaws (sub $200) that are dangerous no matter how you use them. I have the SawStop Professional saw, which I bought immediately after seeing one at a trade show. It replaced a Delta Cabinet saw. I wanted the extra safety and build quality of the SawStop was equal to that of the Delta.

I also have the Bosch 4100 and a smaller DeWalt. Both are nice saws with the Dewalt having a exceptionally nice geared fence. The 4100 is nice to, but the build quality pales in comparison to any of the SawStop models.

The odd thing about Bosch is that they make a lot of great tools (along with a gazillion other items) and coordinating accessories (not a system like Festool has though). Lots of them don't make it to the US. With their bankroll they could cut into Festools market in short order, but they will be up against price point issues. They can't get Festool prices while slumming it at Lowe's and Home Depot with cheap tools. Festool is like Apple...they won't sell cheap stuff because there is no margin on it and once you target the bottom there is no way out. Best approach might be a new tool line that would be premium.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 10:18 AM by JimH2 »

Offline sae

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2015, 06:13 PM »
Competition is always good, so long as it does kill SawStop.

Freudian slip?  [laughing]


It would be amusing to see Bosch pull the plug on supplying Sawstop their portable saw for retrofit.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2015, 06:41 PM »
Competition is always good, so long as it does kill SawStop.
...
Do you mean does or does not?  I know there are a lot of folks out there who do not like the way that SawStop has gone about their business but you don't sound like you are one of them.
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Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2015, 09:29 PM »
Slumming it at Home Depot? I guess I am a slum customer as I like to shop at Home Depot. Lots of nice peple work there. I'd like to see Festool sold at Home Depot. Both Home Depot and Festool are great brands. I own just about every tool sold by Festool in NA. I also own DeWalt and Bosch tools mostly bought at Home Depot at great prices. Good tools, good people, good store.
Birdhunter