Author Topic: bosch makita or festool  (Read 1283 times)

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Offline godelescher

  • Posts: 3
bosch makita or festool
« on: November 15, 2020, 09:13 PM »
When comparing sanders, I've owned the Makita BO4060 and the Bosch 1250DEVS and the Rotex 150. Of all three, I liked the Bosch the best, the Makita second, and the Rotex the least.

My problems with the Rotex were: It sounded like it had bad bearings from day one. The selector switch failed. I never liked the ergonomics or the balance, and I didn't like the cost, the proprietary pad that required festool paper, the expensive cords that I felt like I was replacing too frequently, and, most importantly, the pad didn't seem like it held paper very well.

Anyone have thoughts on the differences between these sanders?

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Online afish

  • Posts: 210
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2020, 09:57 PM »
Your not alone I have heard several people prefer the Bosch.  the 1250 is the older model and the newer model is supposed to be even better.  If I was in the market for a RO type sander the Bosch would be at the top of my list. 

Offline Imemiter

  • Posts: 42
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2020, 10:38 PM »
Another big fan of the lower pitch! And while I liked the slimmer handle of the Bosch, I mostly chose it for the lower cost. I've only ever second guessed myself on that when swapping between my Festool sanders and wishing the Bosch had a Plug-it connector. Festool is also much, much better at supporting their tools wrt access to accessories. If I needed a new pad for the Bosch I can (finally) order one online, but there are three or four Festool places nearby that would probably have a pad for me today. Really, the best thing about the Bosch is that it saved me enough money to buy a DTS 400.
CSX, DTS400, ETS125, RAS115, HKC55, OR1010, LR32, CTSys, CT-VA-20

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 446
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2020, 04:21 AM »
For me, it's Mirka's DEROS sanders (or one of their badge engineered clones if you don't want a potentially troublesome plug-it type power cord) that stand head & shoulders above the rest.

I think they actually represent the future of sanding machines.  They're realistically the only sander purpose-made for mesh abrasives, which makes for a killer combination.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6849
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2020, 05:31 AM »
Rotex 150 owner for 12 years, and I couldn't think of a more robust and better behaved sander than this one. It has served me flawlessly, without a hitch, for all that time now and boy, have I put it through the paces. I have litterally drowned it in heaps of plaster dust and cleaned up greasy trucks with it. To take this away from me you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands.

I recognise the claim about the gear noise, but that was only in the beginning, just a case of the gears settling. The motor still makes a lot of noise though, it is one of the noisiest sanders I can think of so hearing protection is standard for me. Which it is basically on every powertool I use.

I never had a chance to try the Makita, but I had one afternoon comparing my Rotex to the Bosch 1250. Functionally it was identical to the Rotex with its two modes, but the ergonomics felt a bit off to me because the body is too square and it sticks out a little bit higher from the ground. And I never thought I would find a noisier sander than the Rotex, well, the Bosch proved me wrong.
 

Offline TwelvebyTwenty

  • Posts: 106
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2020, 05:43 AM »
My advice woulds be if it's a daily "bread and butter" tool get the Rotex as the ergonomics are marginally better for regular use. If it's more of an occasional "problem solver" tool I think the Bosch is 95% as good and is 50% cheaper.

Offline VirTERM

  • Posts: 100
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2020, 09:07 AM »
My advice woulds be if it's a daily "bread and butter" tool get the Rotex as the ergonomics are marginally better for regular use. If it's more of an occasional "problem solver" tool I think the Bosch is 95% as good and is 50% cheaper.
I also only compared Bosch and Rotex and end up buying the Rotex.
I also have Dts400 and ec-es125 with a6” extra pad.

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 414
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2020, 07:03 PM »
Quote
For me, it's Mirka's DEROS sanders (or one of their badge engineered clones

What do you mean here  [unsure]

Are you talking about the Metabo sander made by Mirka , or one of the Asian knockoffs of Deros ?  Those are reported as good by some customers.   In the USA , they have scant support networks, basically no retail locations where you could actually hold one before you buy, and they aren't that much cheaper than the Finnish made Deros.  They also suffer from needing an additional adapter to hook up your festool (or similar) dust hose to them.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 446
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2020, 09:40 PM »
Quote
For me, it's Mirka's DEROS sanders (or one of their badge engineered clones

What do you mean here  [unsure]

Are you talking about the Metabo sander made by Mirka , or one of the Asian knockoffs of Deros ?  Those are reported as good by some customers.   In the USA , they have scant support networks, basically no retail locations where you could actually hold one before you buy, and they aren't that much cheaper than the Finnish made Deros.  They also suffer from needing an additional adapter to hook up your festool (or similar) dust hose to them.

Mirka & Metabo's versions use "plug-it" type cords.  The rest - the Netherlands' Indasa, Germany's CarSystem & Menzer, Italy's Rupes, Taiwan's Sumake, Sweden's PelaTools & the USA's Airvantage tools - all have fixed/hardwired power cables.

These are all clones of each other, with Rupes, Menzer & Pelatools all having variants of the basic external architecture.  All appear to use the same original Mirka's mechanicals within.  Far from being "knockoffs", all seem to be "clones" to me.  Being clones, mechanicals & electronics within (motors, gears, counterweights, voltage inverter, circuitry & switchgear) will be interchangeable between brands.

I myself have a Delmeq DEOS clone that apart from the power cable & colour is actually indistinguishable from the original Mirka DEOS Delta.  It was just approx 20% cheaper.  Some variants are less than half the price of the equivalent Mirka original.

It should be noted that some Mirka designs are not fully cloned.  I believe that Mirka is the only marque to date to market a super-large 8mm orbit DEROS.  Likewise, only Sumake & CarSystem seem to sell the smaller 75 mm DEROS clones in 2.5 & 5 mm orbits.

All my small Festo extraction hoses are a direct fit to all my (5) Mirkas & clones.  More securely than the old oval Festo dust outlets in fact!  Even the smaller Starmix hose (not the 35mm one) fits.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 09:53 PM by aloysius »
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 414
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2020, 10:26 AM »
Quote
These are all clones of each other, with Rupes, Menzer & Pelatools all having variants of the basic external architecture.

Totally disagree.   Rupes is a different animal entirely.  Menzer/Pela are more similar to Festool ets-EC.   None are really close to the Deros design/architecture. 

Mirka/ Metabo can be called clones.  Both made by Mirka, only difference is color and Bluetooth capability.

The other 5 plus surfprep and another brand that escapes me are clones of each other but not of the Mirka or the Menzer/Pela.  They are all made by X'Pole in Taiwan. And while the Airvantage electronic may work in a CarSystem sander, I guarantee it will not work on the Mirka or Menzer, and certainly not the Rupes.  It won't even fit in the latter.  Then there's that little detail of the electronic speed readout of the Menzer/Pela that NONE of the other makes have.  [blink]  How do you suppose that's going to work in the Mirka ?

Seems to me there are at least four distinct designs for these types of sanders.   Several brands share platforms with each other and can be considered clones of each other.  But the four aren't even from the same family. The production location is your guide.  I don't believe any of the four factories shared any kind of tech or design;  making calling them clones not accurate.

Given that the Asian models are most similar to the Mirka, the region's history, and that there is no partnership between X'Pole and Mirka - knockoff is the most likely conclusion.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 10:30 AM by xedos »

Online mrB

  • Posts: 765
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2020, 11:22 AM »
I used the RO 150 for about a month on a particular job I needed it for, before selling it on. I own the RO125, Deros, ETS EC. .

I can’t imagine the RO150 being smoother, easier to handle, having better DC etc. . . It is a truly awesome machine.

Maybe the Bosch or Makita are as good, but I can’t imagine them being notably better. Here in the UK where the cost difference for festool is less I often chose the festool for the Systainer, warranty, service and parts availability. .

While normally this decision results in spending more money, it works the other way too.  I recently chose the festool RTS 400 over the more expensive Mirka Deos (that I wood have preferred) because, on a tool I will use relatively little, I trusted the lifespan, warranty, service, parts from  Festool over Mirka here in the UK. If that’s just or not. .
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 414
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2020, 02:40 PM »
mrB - I think in the case of the Rotex vs. GET from Bosch , it's not smoother but as good or nearly as good for 1/2 the price.  This is true in the UK where , as you say festool prices fluctuate.   Even if you gotta have and buy a systainer with a plug-it spare to convert it - you'd still save a couple hundred quid with the bosch.

Bosch also has a three year warranty in the UK.

This is why the choice is difficult for some people.  That savings buys a LOT of sandpaper.  Or, another sander.

Offline petar73

  • Posts: 14
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2020, 02:11 AM »
I have bosch gex 150 turbo since 2007, it has been serviced three times and it has done a lot of work for that time. The rotex 150 feels smother, but less powerful and has better dust extraction. Both are great sanders, my only hope is the festool to last as long as the bosch.

Online mrB

  • Posts: 765
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2020, 08:47 AM »
mrB - I think in the case of the Rotex vs. GET from Bosch , it's not smoother but as good or nearly as good for 1/2 the price.  This is true in the UK where , as you say festool prices fluctuate.   Even if you gotta have and buy a systainer with a plug-it spare to convert it - you'd still save a couple hundred quid with the bosch.

Bosch also has a three year warranty in the UK.

This is why the choice is difficult for some people.  That savings buys a LOT of sandpaper.  Or, another sander.

I totally hear you. I think the long term availability of parts coupled with the ease of part identification and ordering also make a difference for me. Knowing how easy it is to get new brushes, pads, parts - both now or in 12 years time.

Maybe other manufacturers have as good/easy parts availability and comprehensive and quick warranty service to boot, but I’ve only experienced that through festool, and it makes me buy more tools. .

I’m certainly not against the Bosch or any other tools. Just saying some of the factors (right or wrong) that sometimes push me towards festool purchases as a professional, despite cheaper options offerings with similar performance.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 08:51 AM by mrB »
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 414
Re: bosch makita or festool
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2020, 10:53 AM »
Agree.

When the customer is paying it's a lot easier to just get whatever suits your fancy.  And if you're already into the system of plug-it and systainers for travel, then some of the savings will be eaten up with you trying to assemble the package.   

Not sure what the deal is in the UK, but in the colonies bosch parts are a click or call away.  They also carry stuff for decades old gear too.  And this year, bosch's infrastructure seems better suited to dealing with the craziness.   Do they make me feel all warm and fuzzy like i get when dealing with festool ?   

 Nope.


I think it good that future readers have a variety of perspectives on which to base their decision on.