Author Topic: Best sliding table saws  (Read 24042 times)

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Offline Tayler_mann

  • Posts: 416
Best sliding table saws
« on: August 12, 2015, 10:00 PM »
So after getting into a heated three when I mentioned to pay the extra money and buy a Hammer sliding saw instead of an American brand cabinet saw I started thinking. I know a lot about the Felders group equipment, however, I don't know what else I can buyin America for a sliding table saw. I want to stick around that $5,000 - $8,000 range, but if it was really worth it I would stretch to $10,000. I really don't want to spend that much, but if it is the saw I have for a lifetime I want it to be the best. One thing that is important to me is a large sliding table. The 79" table is probably the smallest I want. One of the main purposes for the saw will be to straight line my lumber. The next thing is dust collection. I want that saw to catch 99% if it is possible. Another thing is a 4" achievable cut would be nice. Basically I want the Hammer saw but I was just wandering if there are other brands in America with saws that are similar.

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Offline Tayler_mann

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2015, 10:03 PM »
I also need to add that single phase is a must.

Offline waho6o9

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2015, 10:38 PM »

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2015, 11:08 PM »
I didn't read anywhere in the other thread that anyone said they thought spending more money on a sliding table saw wasn't worth it. I certainly didn't. You stated a cabinet saw was old tech and you wont buy one based on that.

If you need the benefit of a slider get a Saw Stop,  Rojek(http://www.rojekusa.com/PHP/pk250a.php) which is almost a European hybrid/cabinet saw or any high end cabinet saw with a high end sliding table.

If you want a European saw Hammer, Felder,, or baileigh(http://www.baileigh.com/sliding-table-saw-sts-14120) all seem fantastic.

The Laguna is another high tech cabinet saw that is near a Eurpeoan saw. It has a scoring blade: http://www.amazon.com/Laguna-Tools-TSS-Tablesaw-Scoring/dp/B002UUC4P2/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1439435737&sr=1-2&keywords=Laguna+Tools+TSS

It's not Hammer or Felder of course but nice. This laguna and the Rojek I have always wanted to try.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 11:17 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Tayler_mann

  • Posts: 416
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2015, 11:55 PM »
I didn't read anywhere in the other thread that anyone said they thought spending more money on a sliding table saw wasn't worth it. I certainly didn't. You stated a cabinet saw was old tech and you wont buy one based on that.

If you need the benefit of a slider get a Saw Stop,  Rojek(http://www.rojekusa.com/PHP/pk250a.php) which is almost a European hybrid/cabinet saw or any high end cabinet saw with a high end sliding table.


If you want a European saw Hammer, Felder,, or baileigh(http://www.baileigh.com/sliding-table-saw-sts-14120) all seem fantastic.

The Laguna is another high tech cabinet saw that is near a Eurpeoan saw. It has a scoring blade: http://www.amazon.com/Laguna-Tools-TSS-Tablesaw-Scoring/dp/B002UUC4P2/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1439435737&sr=1-2&keywords=Laguna+Tools+TSS

It's not Hammer or Felder of course but nice. This laguna and the Rojek I have always wanted to try.

I looked into the Baileigh once as well but I just don't know if I can spend $12,000 on my saw. I feel I will be just as happy with a Felders or Hammer. The laguna interests me if it had a larger sliding table and didn't cost as much as one of the better Hammers. The Rojec also appears to have a smaller sliding table as well. With these three options I think I still will go with a Felders or Hammer. I still have a few months to decide so please give me more choices and suggestions to make this purchase even more difficult


Offline jimbouk

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2015, 12:54 AM »
BHC 18, TSC 55REB, OF 1400, MIDI, TS55, TRION, Df500, CSX...

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 986
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2015, 02:09 AM »
The Concept panel/beam saw is certainly underwhelming.  I guess it's fine in the context of a factory but for a one man shop?  You'd have to be nuts.

I would have to be nuts to invest $10,000 or more in any kind of machine that isn't a CNC router.
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2015, 06:56 AM »
Buy a used martin, none of the others will compare.

You will probably have to use a vfd to power this class of saw.

Offline glass1

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2015, 07:13 AM »
Altendorf. Used.

Offline Tayler_mann

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2015, 08:11 AM »
The Concept panel/beam saw is certainly underwhelming.  I guess it's fine in the context of a factory but for a one man shop?  You'd have to be nuts.

I would have to be nuts to invest $10,000 or more in any kind of machine that isn't a CNC router.

I have a CNC already and the volume and class of work I do requires me to get a saw that can perform for 40 more years of service if it can last that long. Also, a good CNC costs sooooooo much more than $10,000.

Offline Tayler_mann

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2015, 08:36 AM »
The Concept panel/beam saw is certainly underwhelming.  I guess it's fine in the context of a factory but for a one man shop?  You'd have to be nuts.

I would have to be nuts to invest $10,000 or more in any kind of machine that isn't a CNC router.

I have a CNC already and the volume and class of work I do requires me to get a saw that can perform for 40 more years of service if it can last that long. Also, a good CNC costs sooooooo much more than $10,000.

I also misread that statement the concept is far to automated for me

Offline Tayler_mann

  • Posts: 416
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2015, 09:11 AM »
http://www.minimax-usa.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=3&Itemid=35

So I am definitely having interest in the minimal elite 8.5' sliding saw. I wish they had more info on them on their website. I gave my info to them so hopefully I get a sales man to call and answer my questions. The only thing I can see from he pictures (which I could be wrong) is they don't seem to have he shoe in the front for dimensional lumber. However, hopefully like the other sliding saws I have seen it is just not shown on he machjne since it's an added accessory. This would be a deal breaker since that is my main purpose for the saw is straight lining dimensional lumber.

Offline Tayler_mann

  • Posts: 416
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2015, 09:17 AM »
Buy a used martin, none of the others will compare.

You will probably have to use a vfd to power this class of saw.

What would be the oldest I would want to go on the Martin? They look once again though very automated. I am looking for a great machine but I feel spending the extra to have he machine do the work is not necessary since I will only ever be using the saw. If I had employees running it that would be different but to keep my high standard of practice I cannot hire employees unless all I let them do was sand with 180 grit.

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2015, 10:09 AM »
I get the not hiring employees, been there done that. I'll work the rest of my life alone, for shop work anyhow. I can't even find anyone good enough to help me move and reorganize my shop!
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2015, 01:08 PM »
Buy a used martin, none of the others will compare.

You will probably have to use a vfd to power this class of saw.

What would be the oldest I would want to go on the Martin? They look once again though very automated. I am looking for a great machine but I feel spending the extra to have he machine do the work is not necessary since I will only ever be using the saw. If I had employees running it that would be different but to keep my high standard of practice I cannot hire employees unless all I let them do was sand with 180 grit.

Check out the martin product history on their site. 50's and up, I suppose.

T 17 is a solid work horse, that can be found in excellent used condition for very fair prices.

They offered a wide varity of options as well, a little research will help.

If I found one close to home, I doubt I could pass one up.

Offline teocaf

  • Posts: 602
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2015, 02:59 PM »
@Tayler_mann : how about this mini max elite?  don't know much about it but just happened to see it on the sawmill classifieds today and it looks like a super deal.  a bit above your stated budget but you would be getting all kinds of additional capabilities with the combination machines.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?233693-FS-MiniMax-CU410-Elite-(Los-Altos-CA)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 03:03 PM by teocaf »

Offline polarsea1

  • Posts: 294
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2015, 03:11 PM »
I'm fairly certain a shoe is available for the Minimax.

Offline Steve Rowe

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2015, 06:48 PM »
So after getting into a heated three when I mentioned to pay the extra money and buy a Hammer sliding saw instead of an American brand cabinet saw I started thinking. I know a lot about the Felders group equipment, however, I don't know what else I can buyin America for a sliding table saw. I want to stick around that $5,000 - $8,000 range, but if it was really worth it I would stretch to $10,000. I really don't want to spend that much, but if it is the saw I have for a lifetime I want it to be the best. One thing that is important to me is a large sliding table. The 79" table is probably the smallest I want. One of the main purposes for the saw will be to straight line my lumber. The next thing is dust collection. I want that saw to catch 99% if it is possible. Another thing is a 4" achievable cut would be nice. Basically I want the Hammer saw but I was just wandering if there are other brands in America with saws that are similar.

For your approximate stated price range I think your best (new) sliders are (first to last):
1) Felder 700 series - the X-roll table is fantastic and IMHO as good as anything on the market (including my Martin).  Build quality is excellent and many accessories are available.
2) Minimax Elite S series (depending on model and sales prices, this may be above what you are willing to spend)  Build quality is not quite up to Felder level but typically is outfitted with accessories that are options with the Felder.  Sliding table is same design as on my Minimax shaper and not near as nice or smooth as the Felder.
3) Hammer - this is a good value machine meant for hobbiest or light duty shop use.  Sliding table about on par with Minimax.

I wouldn't even consider some of the other brands mentioned.  I have had my hands on and pawed over and evaluated many machines before I purchased a Martin (at the time I owned a Felder 741 combo).  The above list is based on my experiences and my personal use of various machines either in my shop or others.  Used is another option which may be good value but could force you to a phase converter.  I highly recommend seeing equipment of this class in person before you purchase (either by visiting a showroom or the shop of an owner).  The sales rep should be able to provide you owners close to your location.

CAUTION!!! - Evaluate each machine individually and do not assume that just because a saw has a table length of 79" that it will get you that much straight lining capability.  Some machines will and some will not. 

Good luck in your search.
Steve

Offline Tayler_mann

  • Posts: 416
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2015, 07:00 PM »
So I started my research with the minimax and was fairly unimpressed. For a lot of thin ripping on the sliding table the sales/technical staff member showed it to me extremely jigged up. This would be ok if it didn't cost just under $10,000. Where as the $5,000 hammer comes quite simply ready to use and at that price I don't care if I need to make a bit of an elaborate jig. Also their warranty did not seem to be vey good for a $10,000 machine. I feel a warranty should be better than 90 days. That is a little bit concerning to me.

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2015, 07:10 PM »
90 day? I never heard such a thing. The Felders have 10 year warranties on their sliders(the sliding tables anyhow)! Sounds like a no brainer. That's way to much money not to have a several year warranty.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Tayler_mann

  • Posts: 416
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2015, 10:20 PM »
90 day? I never heard such a thing. The Felders have 10 year warranties on their sliders(the sliding tables anyhow)! Sounds like a no brainer. That's way to much money not to have a several year warranty.

I completely agree with that statement. I was appalled by the sales man saying that he has seen 50 year old machines. I simply stated to him, "That was a saw built 50 years ago not a saw built last week." With the quality of some parts really declining I don't see a 90 day "limited warranty" worthy of my money. My Felder sales man even said he will right up a 30 day gurantee contract if it gets my business. That really to me says it all. No one gives that kind of a gurantee unless they truly believe in the quality of their product. Also, there is at least a 1 year on all electronics of the machines.

Offline Kev

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2015, 11:06 PM »
Both the price and the warranty for Minimax in the US shocks me!!

It's ironic that ... unlike everything else ... Felder/Hammer are great value in Oz relative to everything else.

Additionally, for a home workshop .. I'm not into the full combination machines, but the saw spindle is a good combo. The B3 Winner or Comfort offer a lot of value here!

Despite having a separate router table already, I like the idea of having access to a meaty spindle moulder, but without the need for another big machine station.


Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2015, 01:01 AM »
I get the not hiring employees, been there done that. I'll work the rest of my life alone, for shop work anyhow. I can't even find anyone good enough to help me move and reorganize my shop!

haha! life is very hard for you.
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2015, 03:11 AM »
I get the not hiring employees, been there done that. I'll work the rest of my life alone, for shop work anyhow. I can't even find anyone good enough to help me move and reorganize my shop!

haha! life is very hard for you.

The cost of setting high standards [wink] [big grin]

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2015, 03:02 AM »
I get the not hiring employees, been there done that. I'll work the rest of my life alone, for shop work anyhow. I can't even find anyone good enough to help me move and reorganize my shop!

haha! life is very hard for you.


The cost of setting high standards [wink] [big grin]

Or the price for those who are born weird.  [wink] [big grin]
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 03:04 AM by MichaelW2014 »
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Tayler_mann

  • Posts: 416
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2015, 09:54 AM »
So I have set my sights on the Hammer k3 winner 79x48. The price point is unbeatable for the saw and it leaves me room to also buy there 17" bandsaw. Also with the purchase I will be buying the Hammers 1,300 cfm 140 mm dust collector soley to run for the saw. Now I just have to wait for my shop space to open up and I will be placing a very exciting order.

Offline waho6o9

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2015, 12:22 PM »
Congratulations Tayler_mann and may they serve you well for years!

Awesome :)

Offline MichaelW2014

  • Posts: 276
Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2015, 01:46 PM »
So I have set my sights on the Hammer k3 winner 79x48. The price point is unbeatable for the saw and it leaves me room to also buy there 17" bandsaw. Also with the purchase I will be buying the Hammers 1,300 cfm 140 mm dust collector soley to run for the saw. Now I just have to wait for my shop space to open up and I will be placing a very exciting order.

you jerk  [wink]
"These saws can chew up lumber like a beaver recovering from a hunger strike."

Offline Holmz

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Re: Best sliding table saws
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2015, 07:43 PM »
So I have set my sights on the Hammer k3 winner 79x48. The price point is unbeatable for the saw and it leaves me room to also buy there 17" bandsaw. Also with the purchase I will be buying the Hammers 1,300 cfm 140 mm dust collector soley to run for the saw. Now I just have to wait for my shop space to open up and I will be placing a very exciting order.

Nice...