Author Topic: Bandsaw Dust Collection  (Read 2303 times)

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Offline dlu

  • Posts: 184
Bandsaw Dust Collection
« on: May 11, 2020, 11:01 PM »
I just stumbled on this video by Blake Weber. I'm going to try this out on my Jet 14" saw. It would be hooked up to a CT36 dust extractor.

I'm wondering:
  • Any reason to use something larger than the standard hose?
  • Is there a Festool part that would mate nicely with the hose so that it wouldn't be a pain to move the hose between tools? Maybe the Kapex dust port…

Or, It might work to rig up something with a Magport connector.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 12:44 AM by dlu »

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7364
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2020, 12:23 AM »
A standard 27 mm Festool hose will never provide enough dust evacuation from a standard 14” bandsaw.

You’ll need a 4”, 5” or 6” hose mated to the equivalent sized dust extractor to obtain the level of dust collection you’ll be happy with.

Offline dlu

  • Posts: 184
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2020, 12:47 AM »
Linking to the right video might help...

I think it might work, he collects the dust right below the blade, so there isn't a lot of leakage. I'd been doing something similar using a piece of 3/4" PVC split by the blade, it worked well, but the hose connection was really awkward – as was the connection to the saw.

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 247
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2020, 03:41 AM »
I would say it depends on what you're cutting. If you're resawing something substantial, then like @Cheese said, there's no way you're going to get great dust collection. But if most of your work is plywood or sheetgoods, the vac port would certainly be an improvement over nothing.

Though I also think dust collection at the band saw, like the router and miter saw, is pretty impossible to get perfect. The thin kerf of a band saw blade plus the table insert are your obstacles. I have a large cyclone and 20" old Delta bandsaw before dust collection was a priority, though credit to them for including a small 2" duct right under the table in approximately the same position as the video depicted, however mine is right beneath the lower guides. I've added a 4" port to the bottom door as well, and even with both ports sucking, I still end up with a mess after a few minutes.

I am going to be creating a new table insert with additional dust collection holes, but I'm not expecting a miracle because those holes are going to be covered by the workpiece most of the time.

Just get a nice horsehair brush to sweep the table and the Festool industrial cleaning nozzle/tube and you'll be good to go.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1954
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2020, 08:42 AM »
I would use a 36mm hose.  If you’re looking for fittings, see what Bosch offers in the 35/36mm size.  They should be pretty inexpensive and fit the festool hoses. 

The reason this set up works reasonably well is because the air velocity around the blade is preserved by encapsulating the blade in a relatively small “box”.  If you’re successful in doing this, it could work, it’s just tricky. 
-Raj

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7364
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2020, 09:23 AM »
Here's a quote from the Iturra Design Bandsaw Catalog. The catalog is produced by Louis Iturra and is 245 pages of techniques, tools, tuning methods, comparisons and after-market bandsaw parts. It's like the bible for small bandsaws.

"Most smaller bandsaws like the Delta 14" have always had a severe problem with dust collection. This was due to the small dust collecting connectors provided by the manufacturer which were only able to attach small shop vacuums to the saw. Shop vacuums have a high suction capacity but a low CFM rating, making them unsuitable for dust collection on a bandsaw which may require as much as a 750 CFM rating depending on size. Delta designed the model 50-239 Dust Collector Connector specifically for the Delta 14" bandsaw to address the issue........It provided a 5" connector opening..."

« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 09:31 AM by Cheese »

Online rmhinden

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Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2020, 01:40 PM »
I had tried to use the Blake Weber approach on my Delta 14", but ran into problems with the stock blade guards.  There wasn't enough space under the table.  Since then I replaced them with a set of Carter guides, so I think there might now be enough room.  I may try again.

I found another video of retrofitting dust collection on a bandsaw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg-d1T7RROc&feature=youtu.be

Also, looks interesting.

Bob
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 07:55 PM by rmhinden »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2020, 07:46 PM »
I recently fabricated an aluminum dust collection shroud for my 14" Delta. The dust port is a 4" diameter MagPort.






So today I ripped a 1 foot long piece of 2 x 6 just to get a feel for how well this collector worked.

This first photo shows the dust generated without dust collection.




I then vacuumed up the mess and ripped another 2 x 6 with dust collection, the result.




I then simply opened up the lower door and took this photo...pretty impressive.




This whole project came about because I was using the original 1 1/2" diameter dust port that is standard on the Delta but the dust collection was horrific, so I decided to do something about it.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 07:51 PM by Cheese »

Online rmhinden

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Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2020, 07:57 PM »
@Cheese

Very cool!

Bob

Offline Cheese

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Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2020, 11:44 PM »
Thanks Bob @rmhinden it was a fun project. It's neat to get some of those skills you haven't used in years back up to speed again. Good for the brain & good for the hands.

The biggest hooray for this project however, was today's results...it works pretty darn well. Wish I had this item when I resawed over 60' of aromatic cedar, that was truly a mess. The entire shop was filled with red sawdust and my lungs hurt for a couple of days.

This is just my version of the Delta 50-239 dust collector. The original Delta offering attached to the band saw table using the bandsaw trunnion bolts which was rather cumbersome.
The maximum you could tilt the bandsaw table was in the 42º - 43º range without removing the dust collector. This will go all the way down to 45º. 
Another advantage is that the cover that's attached with 4 thumbscrews, is removable and I'm able to adjust the side and thrust bearings without removing the dust collector.

It took some time but was well worth the effort.  [big grin]

Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 351
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2020, 08:14 AM »
Great results! And industrially elegant piece of work! (no surprise) courious as to the material the magnets are mounted in and is it screwed in from behind
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2020, 08:30 PM »
Great results! And industrially elegant piece of work! (no surprise) courious as to the material the magnets are mounted in and is it screwed in from behind

Thanks @Vondawg  the 4" MagPort I used is a standard commercial item manufactured from gray pvc plate and white pvc pipe. I originally requested to purchase the new bolt-on 4" MagPort but after several inquiries and several weeks of waiting I never received a reply. So, short of turning this project into a long-term science project  [tongue]  I decided to just modify the extra 4" MagPort I already had and thus move this project forward.

https://magport.net/products/magport-4

Standard 4" MagPort




New 4" bolt-on MagPort




Thus, the standard 4" MagPort has a 2"-3" flange hanging out the rear which allows it to be attached to the 4" dust exhaust tubing. I machined that flange to be only 1/16" in length (the thickness of the aluminum side plate material on the dust collector) and then simply siliconed the modified MagPort in place to the aluminum housing. Simple is sometimes better.  [big grin]
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 08:41 PM by Cheese »

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1643
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2020, 07:30 AM »
Nice job Cheese. Nice job adapting the 4" MagPort.

I could use two of those flanged versions if they ever go into production.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7364
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2020, 10:09 AM »
Nice job Cheese. Nice job adapting the 4" MagPort.

I could use two of those flanged versions if they ever go into production.

Thanks Bob...this is what the final MagPort modification looks like and here's another photo of how it fits into the dust collection housing.

That bolt-on MagPort connector is pretty cool, I still want one when they become available for my Delta jointer. 

Business is good for Mr. MagPort as I just ordered 2 additional 4" standard MagPorts and shipping is 3-4 weeks off.  Probably a 1-man shop trying to be a production line.  [tongue]

That's ok...good for him/her. Support the little guy.  [big grin] [big grin]



« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 10:13 AM by Cheese »

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1193
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2020, 12:57 AM »
Brilliant @Cheese If you ever hear back from Dave let me know, I am also interessted in the bolt-on Magport.

My bionic eye tell me that your port capture 75-80% of the saw dust  [not worthy]
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 01:00 AM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Offline Cheese

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Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2020, 09:01 AM »
Brilliant @Cheese If you ever hear back from Dave let me know, I am also interessted in the bolt-on Magport.

My bionic eye tell me that your port capture 75-80% of the saw dust  [not worthy]

Duly noted Mario...I will tag you if/when Dave gives me either an update or some product.  [smile]

Offline dlu

  • Posts: 184
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2020, 12:29 PM »
I recently fabricated an aluminum dust collection shroud for my 14" Delta. The dust port is a 4" diameter MagPort.

That is a beautiful, and inspiring, piece of work! I wish I had the space, and the noise tolerance, for a big dust collector.

I'm curious, were you able to build it with "standard wood shop tools" or are there specialized tools needed for a project like this?

And one more thing… In the before and after dust collection photos, there is a piece of wood on the right side of the motor cabinet that l can't figure out. It almost looks like the pedal for a blade brake, but I don't think Delta 14" saws have them. Mind revealing what it is?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 12:34 PM by dlu »

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1193
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2020, 02:07 PM »
@dlu
And one more thing… In the before and after dust collection photos, there is a piece of wood on the right side of the motor cabinet that l can't figure out. It almost looks like the pedal for a blade brake, but I don't think Delta 14" saws have them. Mind revealing what it is?

Bandsaw miter gauge
Mario

Offline dlu

  • Posts: 184
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2020, 01:12 AM »
It turns out that there is a lot less clearance between the table and the lower guides on a Jet saw than on the Delta – like 12 or 14 mm. So, I decided that Blake Weber's idea would be hard to pull off, especially with the materials I had on hand. But I still wanted the dust to go away and the space requirements, power consumption, and noise of a "real" dust collector all suggested that it was at least worth trying to get my CT36 to do the job.

I figured that if I couldn't get a huge volume of air, perhaps concentrating the suction close to the blade might work. So, I built this:

314618-0

The pipe is 3/4" PVC, the contraption is held in place by rare earth magnets on the top edge of the plywood blocks. There are four 10 mm magnets and they are barely adequate. The stock 27 mm Festool hose is a tight fit on the outside of the gray PVC conduit.

So far I'm pretty happy with it. Here's the result of cutting a couple of half lap joints in 2x4 fir. First, without the contraption:

314620-1

And now, after cleaning up, with the CT36 running at full power:

314622-2

It's a little hard to tell from the photos but the before is about 1/2 a cup (quite a but came out the standard vacuum connection as well as around the lower wheel, after is less than a tablespoon.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 02:37 AM by dlu »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2020, 10:41 AM »

That is a beautiful, and inspiring, piece of work! I wish I had the space, and the noise tolerance, for a big dust collector.

I'm curious, were you able to build it with "standard wood shop tools" or are there specialized tools needed for a project like this?


Thanks... [smile]  @dlu

If you're asking if I used a shear, pan brake or slip roll, the answer is no. The only "special" tools I used were a Roper Whitney hand punch, a Pop rivet gun, a Marsen nut setter, a hammer and a couple of body dolly's. The aluminum was cut on the bandsaw using an old 1/2" Starrett wood blade. I'd expect a large number of forum members already own these tools so nothing really special.

@Mario Turcot nailed it, it's a Incra miter gauge.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 01:35 PM by Cheese »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7364
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2020, 01:33 PM »
It's a little hard to tell from the photos but the before is about 1/2 a cup (quite a but came out the standard vacuum connection as well as around the lower wheel, after is less than a tablespoon.

One thing that seemed to help collect more dust is when I drilled holes into the table insert. It keeps the top of the table a lot cleaner.


Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1643
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2020, 02:00 PM »
The replacement inserts for my Rikon BS come already perforated.

I would have thought they all do.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online rmhinden

  • Posts: 307
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2020, 06:50 PM »
I built a version of the Blake Weber dust collection adapter for my Delta bandsaw.

It works pretty well.  Though not the first time I tested it as I forgot to turn on the CT22.   It worked much better after I turned on the CT22 :-)   Some pictures:



I may have made the kerf for the saw blade too large, closing up it up a bit might improve the performance, but I suspect it doesn't matter that much.   I used a modified Festool 500593 Crevice Nozzle to connect a 36mm hose.   I cut off the angled part. 

I also discovered that Cyanoacrylate glue works well to glue in the magnets.    Much easier than mixing and waiting for epoxy to cure.  I am finding more uses for CA glue over time.

Bob

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4764
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2020, 06:53 PM »
It turns out that there is a lot less clearance between the table and the lower guides on a Jet saw than on the Delta – like 12 or 14 mm. So, I decided that Blake Weber's idea would be hard to pull off, especially with the materials I had on hand. But I still wanted the dust to go away and the space requirements, power consumption, and noise of a "real" dust collector all suggested that it was at least worth trying to get my CT36 to do the job.

I figured that if I couldn't get a huge volume of air, perhaps concentrating the suction close to the blade might work. So, I built this:

(Attachment Link)


@dlu   isn’t that black tube a dust collection chute? Doesn’t it work better than the little pvc tube running perpendicular to the flow of debris?

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2020, 07:00 PM »
After rmhinden’s pics I get the interest in diverting the debris before it hits the lower guides.


@rmhinden  and @Cheese  which aftermarket guides are you guys using?

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1193
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2020, 07:02 PM »
rmhinden use Carter micro-adjust
Cheese perhaps Carter 2400 series?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 07:07 PM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Online rmhinden

  • Posts: 307
Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2020, 07:19 PM »
rmhinden use Carter micro-adjust
Cheese perhaps Carter 2400 series?

Yes, that is correct, the Carter Delta 14" Micro-Adjust Riser Guide Upgrade kit.   I had some issues getting it aligned for my saw, but Carter had great support and sent me some parts that solved the problem.  My Delta is from around 1990.

Bob

Offline Cheese

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Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2020, 08:02 PM »
@rmhinden  and @Cheese  which aftermarket guides are you guys using?

@Mario Turcot you’re 2 for 2.  [big grin]

@Michael Kellough they’re Carter 2300 series. The micro adjust wasn’t available when I installed mine.  [sad]

@rmhinden my Delta was purchased in 1993.  [cool]

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2020, 10:33 PM »
Mine is a Rockwell-Delta. Has to be a at least 40 years old.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Bandsaw Dust Collection
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2020, 10:53 PM »
That’s a keeper Michael.