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Author Topic: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system  (Read 1027 times)

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Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 810
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« on: July 19, 2022, 06:24 PM »
It looks like Altendorf has entered the ring of finger-protecting saws, joining SawStop and Felder. Great to see more manufacturers offer variations on the technology.

https://www.altendorfgroup.com/en-us/machines/altendorf-hand-guard/
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Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 334
Re: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2022, 07:10 PM »
Of course I do not know how the Altendorf system works.  But it did mention one quarter of a second several times.  One quarter of a second is an eternity almost for a table saw blade.  3450 rpm motor.  60 seconds in a minute.  So every second the blade makes a complete circle 57.5 times.  80 teeth on a fine cutting saw blade.  80 x 57.5 = 4600 teeth gong by a point in one second.  One fourth of a second was mentioned by Altendorf several times on the webpages.  4600 / 4 = 1150 teeth going by a point in one fourth of a second.  Seems to me 1150 teeth in one fourth of a second would cut up your hand pretty good.

Hopefully reality is very different from my initial perception.  But based on what was mentioned on the Altendorf website about this safety system, it does not seem to be too safe.  Sawstop says its system works in 5 milliseconds.  5 milliseconds is 50 times faster than one quarter second.
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Offline Tom Gensmer

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  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2022, 07:18 PM »
The catch with SawStop is that it requires physical contact with the blade, whereas the Felder and Altendorf are non-contact/"pre-contact" methods, so comparing the reaction times will not necessarily be an Apples-to-Apples comparison.

I'm not necessarily advocating the Altendorf system over the others, rather I'm just happy to see other methods, if for no other reason than it's fun to see how creative the engineers are.....
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Offline ChuckS

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Re: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2022, 07:25 PM »
Quote from: RussellS on July 19, 2022, 07:10 PM
Snip.Sawstop says its system works in 5 milliseconds.  5 milliseconds is 50 times faster than one quarter second.



Airbag: 30 milliseconds (blink of eye: 100 milliseconds)

1/4 second is SLOW!

Any hotdog demo on the Hand Guard that we can see (and compare)?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 07:28 PM by ChuckS »
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Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 810
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2022, 07:34 PM »
Quote from: ChuckS on July 19, 2022, 07:25 PM
Quote from: RussellS on July 19, 2022, 07:10 PM
Snip.Sawstop says its system works in 5 milliseconds.  5 milliseconds is 50 times faster than one quarter second.
(Attachment Link)


Airbag: 30 milliseconds (blink of eye: 100 milliseconds)

1/4 second is SLOW!

Any hotdog demo on the Hand Guard that we can see (and compare)?

Again, 1/4 second relative to what? The Felder and Altendorf systems engage prior to contact with the blade, I'd say that's a lot faster than touching the blade, and waiting 5 milliseconds for the cartridge to fire.....

Plenty of videos on Youtube of the Altendorf system. There's an embedded video in the Altendorf link I shared at the top....
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Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 256
Re: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2022, 07:36 PM »
It's a non-contact system, so not sure what the hotdog test would really prove. This system, with proper use of the standard guard, looks like a good set up to me. Have been using Altendorf saws for 25 years and their standard guards are very, very good - biggest problem is people swinging them out of the way because they 'like to see the cut'(???)
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Offline guybo

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Re: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2022, 09:46 PM »
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Offline usernumber1

  • Posts: 230
Re: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2022, 02:57 AM »
that looks fantastic.

i'm not sure why waste all this time doing "math" to prove a point when you can spend a literal moment to read what they've done.

"The world’s first and only optical system protects people, machines and material. Unique early detection system with 2 cameras. No damage whatsoever, ready for use again immediatly. Works for all materials."

this isn't like a sawstop whatsoever. doesn't even stop a blade looks like. also the price "Basic price from 43,400 euros"
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Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 1153
Re: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2022, 12:26 PM »
Quote from: Lincoln on July 19, 2022, 07:36 PM
It's a non-contact system, so not sure what the hotdog test would really prove. This system, with proper use of the standard guard, looks like a good set up to me. Have been using Altendorf saws for 25 years and their standard guards are very, very good - biggest problem is people swinging them out of the way because they 'like to see the cut'(???)

That is the problem with all table saws...nobody wants to use the guard. If guards were left in place it the necessity of these finger-savers would be not near as important.
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Offline JimH2

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Re: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2022, 12:38 PM »
Quote from: usernumber1 on July 20, 2022, 02:57 AM
that looks fantastic.

i'm not sure why waste all this time doing "math" to prove a point when you can spend a literal moment to read what they've done.

"The world’s first and only optical system protects people, machines and material. Unique early detection system with 2 cameras. No damage whatsoever, ready for use again immediatly. Works for all materials."

this isn't like a sawstop whatsoever. doesn't even stop a blade looks like. also the price "Basic price from 43,400 euros"

The camera design is a different twist though saving the blade is the least of my concerns. I have the SawStop and could care less about a blade being destroyed if that is what it takes. A good blade is $150 or so. My ER deductible is $250. I have triggered it once at the tail end of a long day. Close to 19 years on a regular table saw and 8 years on a SawStop PCS when the accident happened. Just  a nick in my thumb requiring a band aid. Healed up without a scar of anytime.

Nice to see more research on devices like this. Hopefully we will see finger saving technology moved to other than table saws.
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Offline dashboardpws

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Re: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2022, 02:15 PM »
Altendorf FTW. Very slick.
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Offline 4nthony

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Re: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2022, 02:43 PM »
That's definitely a cool idea. I wonder if they'll attempt to scale the system down to fit smaller saws or license it to a brand that does?


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Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 810
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Altendorf joins SawStop and Felder with Hand Guard safety system
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2022, 06:16 PM »
I suspect it'll take awhile for these systems to trickle down to the sub-$30k machines. We're only just now seeing it on the Kappa 550 and the Altendorf (I assume Martin has something in the works), which are all good-selling $50k+ machines, I suspect the manufacturers will position the technology where you only get it on the premium machines, perhaps seeing it on the lesser machines in 5-10 years. Just my guess....

JimH2, I agree, it would be neat to see something similar implemented on other machines, my brain goes immediately to jointers and shapers, where if there is an accident there's no sewing the mistake back on, it's in the dust collector....

Lincoln, I agree those overhead guards are great. I have the Felder version on my KF700SP, the two times I swung it out of the way for some reason I felt like I wasn't wearing pants, swung the guard back into position and came up with a safer way to execute the cutting operation.

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