Author Topic: Woodpecker's Drill Press Tables (Read 10203 times)

Mike Goetzke · « **on:** June 29, 2022, 02:55 PM »

The new DP-Pro series tables look nice but have high cost with all the features. Two features I'm have problems adding value to are pullout table extensions and the drawer that lifts the table high enough to provide clearance for the table elevation crank.

This leads me to possibly purchasing their standard table package #2, 36" DP-Pro fence, two flip-stops, and build a drawer or box to elevate the table. This solution is almost $200 less expensive than the comparable DP-Pro.

Wondering if users of the DP-Pro package can comment on the usefulness of both the top extensions and drawer.

Thanks

hdv · « **Reply #1 on:** June 29, 2022, 03:20 PM »

I had already made my own table with all kinds of bells and whistles when Woodpeckers released their DP-Pro line. So, I can't comment on the drawer and table. However, I did buy the DP-Pro fence to replace the fence I had and love it to bits! The built-in dust collection is great and the fence is wonderful to work with. You won't regret buying it.

Don't buy the DP-Pro Flip Stops though. At least not when you do so because of their supposed fine adjustment capability. The flip stops could have been perfect, but the fine adjustment has so much slop in it when not fully closed that it is completely useless.

I remember @jeffinsgf posting here that their engineers were aware of the problem and an improved version was in the works. I don't know the current status of that though.

derekcohen · « **Reply #2 on:** June 29, 2022, 11:58 PM »

Quote from: hdv on June 29, 2022, 03:20 PM

I had already made my own table with all kinds of bells and whistles when Woodpeckers released their DP-Pro line. So, I can't comment on the drawer and table. However, I did buy the DP-Pro fence to replace the fence I had and love it to bits! The built-in dust collection is great and the fence is wonderful to work with. You won't regret buying it.

What are the situations where the dust control works and does not work?

I imagine that it will only work when using twist drills closer to the fence? What about forstner bits, and further away?

Regards from Perth

Derek

hdv · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2022, 05:49 AM »

Obviously, its efficiency will be less when the distance between the fence and the drill bit increases. As it will be when the workpiece's shape is such that it blocks the airflow. But in most cases where the wood chips aren't very large it will do an adequate job. Smaller forstners or spade bits don't pose a problem at all. Bigger forstners sometimes do, but a little puff will often help the chips along to the suction port. But you need to do that regularly, because when the pile of chips builds up they will clutter the dust port and then won't get in there by themselves.

In the situations where the fence does not offer enough suction I use the DC facility I added to the drill press table (above and below the table) when I built it. There's an older threat on the forum with pictures. If you are interested I could make new ones of my setup.

I do have a CTL26 connected to the fence. I used to have it hooked up to an Oneida Dust Cobra before I found a perfect adapter that fit the fence and the hose end of the Festool hoses. I think the Festool does just fine in this setup.

cpw · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2022, 06:26 AM »

How does the WP dust collection do on a forstner for a 35mm cup hinge? I'm not sure if those count as small, medium or big?

derekcohen · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2022, 09:26 AM »

Once upon a time I have the WoodRiver fence (with dust collection) ...

This was connected to a CT26e. It was miserable for all but smaller twist drill bits alongside the opening. These did not make much dust to begin with. Forget forstner bits.

I sold it and used the stock Nova fence and added a sub-fence ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

Mini Me · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2022, 10:05 AM »

The best dust debris collection I have seen for a DP

JD2720 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 01, 2022, 08:50 AM »

This is my home made fence with dust collection. The table is from Incra that I got from Woodpeckers many years ago.

4nthony · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2022, 01:36 AM »

Quote from: hdv on June 29, 2022, 03:20 PM

Don't buy the DP-Pro Flip Stops though. At least not when you do so because of their supposed fine adjustment capability. The flip stops could have been perfect, but the fine adjustment has so much slop in it when not fully closed that it is completely useless.

I remember @jeffinsgf posting here that their engineers were aware of the problem and an improved version was in the works. I don't know the current status of that though.

The other day, Woodpeckers released another video on the DP-Pro tables, and in the video, Jeff mentions there's a right and wrong way to use the stops.

Note the orientation of the stops. When using them, the material should push into the flag so the flag presses into the body of the stop (direction of the arrows). I checked this on mine and it greatly reduces the amount of play when there's space between the body and flag after micro-adjusting. In the video, discussion about the stops starts at 3:12.

hdv · « **Reply #9 on:** July 04, 2022, 05:00 AM »

I do use them like that. And indeed there is less play in one direction over the other. However, the tip of the arm still is able to move a couple of millimetres even when the fine adjustment is loosened only a little bit. The play is gone when you turn the screw to null the fine adjustment. But then, it doesn't function as a fine adjustment anymore, does it? It might be me using them wrong. Or just my set of stops. But I don't think it is.

Cheese · « **Reply #10 on:** July 04, 2022, 08:37 AM »

Quote from: hdv on July 04, 2022, 05:00 AM

I do use them like that. And indeed there is less play in one direction over the other. However, the tip of the arm still is able to move a couple of millimetres even when the fine adjustment is loosened only a little bit. The play is gone when you turn the screw to null the fine adjustment. But then, it doesn't function as a fine adjustment anymore, does it? It might be me using them wrong. Or just my set of stops. But I don't think it is.

Nope you're good...

...I also have the early stops and the only time they don't have any lateral play in them is when they're completely tightened, which as you say, means the fine adjustment is no longer possible.

I think I'll email Woodpeckers and enquire about a solution.

rvieceli · « **Reply #11 on:** July 04, 2022, 09:16 AM »

I don’t understand the necessity of this micro adjustment on a DP fence.

I understand the function and the need for a stop in many cases but question the adjustment.

Ron

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #12 on:** July 04, 2022, 01:16 PM »

Quote from: JD2720 on July 01, 2022, 08:50 AM

This is my home made fence with dust collection. The table is from Incra that I got from Woodpeckers many years ago.

Still kicking myself, about a year ago one of those tables was up for sale on my local CL and I didn't bite.

@JD2720 Are those Rockler flit-stops?

Thanks-Mike

hdv · « **Reply #13 on:** July 04, 2022, 01:33 PM »

@Cheese : thanks for confirming that

Maybe an e-mail will effect more results. I tried by referring to @jeffinsgf earlier in this thread, but he might not have read it yet. I really am interested in that improved solution he said was in the works.

Here's that post by him:

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tool-reviews/woodpeckers-drill-press-pro-fence-flip-stops/msg637086/#msg637086

[Edit: thread not threat... ]

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #14 on:** July 04, 2022, 02:30 PM »

Quote from: hdv on July 04, 2022, 01:33 PM

@Cheese : thanks for confirming that

Maybe an e-mail will effect more results. I tried by referring to @jeffinsgf earlier in this thread, but he might not have read it yet. I really am interested in that improved solution he said was in the works.

Here's that post by him:

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tool-reviews/woodpeckers-drill-press-pro-fence-flip-stops/msg637086/#msg637086

[Edit: thread not threat... ]

Or make it a fixed stop and reduce the price appropriately.

Cheese · « **Reply #15 on:** July 04, 2022, 05:01 PM »

Quote from: rvieceli on July 04, 2022, 09:16 AM

I don’t understand the necessity of this micro adjustment on a DP fence.

I understand the function and the need for a stop in many cases but question the adjustment.

I'm kind of with you on this one Ron

but the real issue is that you cannot use the older flip stop as a flip stop. So if there is a flip stop mounted on the left & a flip stop mounted on the right but because they both use the same RH thread, when trying to raise one up, one side will tighten and the other side will loosen. When flipping them down one side will loosen and the other side will tighten. So you have to do this dance of loosen-flip-tighten just to use the flip stop...it's real clunky.

Another issue I noticed is that any material taller than 3 1/2" will hit both the flip stop tightening knob and the flip stop vernier knob. If the material is clamped to the bottom of the fence it will not be perpendicular to the drill press table surface.

rvieceli · « **Reply #16 on:** July 04, 2022, 05:33 PM »

Those are some of the reasons I prefer to work with a low DP fence unless I need to stand something on edge and clamp it to the fence. I use a Woodpeck DP3 fence for that.

Normally I have a fence I made from a strip of 1/2 inch Mic6 that I had both edges machined flat and parallel. Stuck a piece of Incra T track on the top and use that to slide a square stop on that tightens up in the track.

Incidentally if you are using a DP3 for a fence a 1-2-3 block makes an excellent stop when clamped to the fence.

Ron

4nthony · « **Reply #17 on:** July 04, 2022, 05:33 PM »

Quick video of my flip stops that I shot today. Are you guys getting more or less deflection? The further out I take the micro-adjust, the more I get, but if I keep micro-adjust within 3/16" or so from the body, deflection is negligible when the flag is pressed into the body (though, much more when pressing away from the body).

I received my kit last week so it's recent, but I never paid much attention to the design of old or new so I don't know which mine are.

Quote from: Cheese on July 04, 2022, 05:01 PM

I'm kind of with you on this one Ron but the real issue is that you cannot use the older flip stop as a flip stop. So if there is a flip stop mounted on the left & a flip stop mounted on the right but because they both use the same RH thread, when trying to raise one up, one side will tighten and the other side will loosen. When flipping them down one side will loosen and the other side will tighten. So you have to do this dance of loosen-flip-tighten just to use the flip stop...it's real clunky.

I notice this as well. Same thing with the Exact 90 Flip Stop. You can raise/lower repeatedly and it will micro adjust its way away from where you originally set it.

Mini Me · « **Reply #18 on:** July 04, 2022, 07:30 PM »

I had the same deflection problem on a Kreg fence and Kreg supplied two extra sliding blocks so the flip blade was supported both sides. It is a flawed design to have only one side support unless some sort of bearing is used for the blade (not a bush) and the bearing body can be locked up solidly between the nut and the body. I am of the simplistic view that a straight bit of anything for a fence clamped to the drill press table gets the job done but then my DP is used for general machining work as well as wood work.

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #19 on:** July 04, 2022, 08:19 PM »

Wow - was almost ready to put about $600 out for one of these. Seems WP missed some very basic flaws on this one.

Maybe I just build one myself like I did 20+ years ago. That one had a wood block with a T-bolt that fastened to a t-track on the face of the fence.

The idea of the flip stops to me is you can use them on the right or left. Many times you want both on one side of the bit. Now WP wants you to take the stop apart and reassemble it every time you switch it over?

4nthony · « **Reply #20 on:** July 04, 2022, 10:27 PM »

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on July 04, 2022, 08:19 PM

Now WP wants you to take the stop apart and reassemble it every time you switch it over?

I read your post, ran down to my garage, swapped over the flag, ran back upstairs and made this post in less than 60 seconds.

Seriously though, it takes less than 15 seconds to swap the position of the flag. It can be done even more quickly if the screw doesn't fall of your hex key.

ChuckS · « **Reply #21 on:** July 05, 2022, 02:41 AM »

Not commenting specifically on the WP drill press table, but 15 secs is a long time when it comes to setting things up like stop blocks for my shop. That's why I use auto switches on my shop vacs, holdfasts, multiple marking gauges, etc., and keep pencils, squares, ear plugs, etc. everywhere so I can get something going in 5 seconds or so.

hdv · « **Reply #22 on:** July 05, 2022, 06:06 AM »

When the fine adjustment screw is tight I can move the tip of the flip stop about a millimetre with just a slight push of my thumb. But only when I push the tip. When I push against the flip stop with a piece of wood of 40 mm high the deflection is minimal.

However, when I loosen the adjustment screw just one quarter turn, the play at the tip of the flip stop is more than 2 mm. And that is without using any force at all. It is that loose.

hdv · « **Reply #23 on:** July 06, 2022, 12:29 PM »

It was asked how the dust collection is on this fence. Well, today I was in the shop and finally remembered to take some pictures. These two are of the fence with a Festool CTL26 hooked to it. The drill bit is a brad point 10 mm. I am drilling through holes in birch that is 26 mm thick. The first picture is with the vac in its lowest setting. The second with the vac in its highest setting.

If I don't forget I'll do the same with a large forstner bit tomorrow.

4nthony · « **Reply #24 on:** July 06, 2022, 02:14 PM »

I was sharing some info with @Mike Goetze yesterday over PM and wanted to add a few of the photos I shared with him.

Regarding the overhanging flip stop flags, I have flags that were milled differently from one another. When one is flipped up and resting on the fence, it sticks out a bit:

When it's snugged up and vertical, it is OK:

You can see the way my flags were milled. The flag that overhangs is on the right (the point is the part that overhangs - not a big deal and I can round it off on the belt sander):

The body knobs do not overhang the fence and I can slide boards past the micro-adjust wheels without catching an edge:

Mike mentioned he spoke to someone at WP and was told there have been a couple revisions of the flip stops. One of the revisions was supposed to prevent the micro adjust wheels from turning. With my flip-stops, if the flag is gently snugged to the body, the wheel will spin the first two times the flag is raised/lowered. In the video, notice the flags are initially set to 355mm and 285mm. After raising/lowering, they end up about a .5mm off from those distances.

However, now that I know this, I think the best option is to simply not snug the flags up to the body. Keep it a touch loose and you'll be able to raise/lower the flags without altering the micro-adjust yet they'll still be close enough to the body to prevent any real deflection from happening. Significant deflection (for my stops) starts to happen when the flag is extended more than 4-5mm away from the body. If you need that much adjustment, it might be better to move the stop.

I wonder if a better flip stop would combine the micro-adjust of the WP with the two flag version like the INCRA? Or, if something like the Katz-Moses stop block could incorporate a hinge?

Maybe the TSO idea would work best. They've decoupled the micro-adjust from the pivot point.

Anyway, enough of my rambling for now

hdv · « **Reply #25 on:** July 06, 2022, 04:15 PM »

Well, if we are rambling about this, let me join you.

I would really like a universal flip stop based on TSO's take. Separating the fine-adjust from the pivoting would definitely be a good idea, because it allows for more flexibility in other design features.

For example, you could take the idea one step further by making the leg of the stop variable in length. The bump in width this would cause wouldn't be a problem with the adjustable stop like TSO uses on their flip stops. Being variable in length from the end of the leg would still allow the stop to "flip" along the pivot point. The different thicknesses of fences could be accounted for by some sort of sliding part, or by some adjustment mechanism on the back of the leg.

That way you could have a proper flip stop on all sorts of fences. Maybe even on 8020 extrusions.

Just dreaming...

JD2720 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 06, 2022, 04:32 PM »

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on July 04, 2022, 01:16 PM

Quote from: JD2720 on July 01, 2022, 08:50 AM
This is my home made fence with dust collection. The table is from Incra that I got from Woodpeckers many years ago.

Still kicking myself, about a year ago one of those tables was up for sale on my local CL and I didn't bite.

@JD2720 Are those Rockler flit-stops?

Thanks-Mike

The stops are Powertec that I purchased from Amazon. They have 2 1/4" & 3".

Mini Me · « **Reply #27 on:** July 06, 2022, 06:35 PM »

Mounting the flip stop on a cantilevered spindle is a flawed design unless a lot of money & careful design is spent to remove deflection. When I used two blocks on the Kreg system which was a similar approach to the Incra shown above idea the problem disappeared. WP appear to keep falling into design traps, surely they have a Beta user group they product test with??? Trying to convince someone who has designed something and put it in production that the design has flaws and it needs changing is an uphill battle.

hdv · « **Reply #28 on:** July 07, 2022, 12:12 PM »

Here's a picture of the Woodpeckers Drill Pro fence after drilling a 14 mm deep hole in birch with a 35 mm forstner bit. I had a Festool CTL26 on its highest setting attached to the fence while drilling. The centre of the hole was about 20 mm from the front of the fence.

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #29 on:** July 07, 2022, 12:27 PM »

Quote from: hdv on July 07, 2022, 12:12 PM

Here's a picture of the Woodpeckers Drill Pro fence after drilling a 14 mm deep hole in birch with a 35 mm forstner bit. I had a Festool CTL26 on its highest setting attached to the fence while drilling. The centre of the hole was about 20 mm from the front of the fence.

(Attachment Link)

@hdv and others. My Voyager is new so I'm still using the cast table. I had a dozen 1.5" Forstner bit holes to drill through a 2x6. With self start I was able to hold a 4" hose from my big dust collector next to the holes and I had at least as many chips as you show per hole.

Mike