Author Topic: Woodpecker's Drill Press Tables (Read 10206 times)

MikeGE · « **Reply #30 on:** July 07, 2022, 01:27 PM »

Quote from: hdv on July 07, 2022, 12:12 PM

Here's a picture of the Woodpeckers Drill Pro fence after drilling a 14 mm deep hole in birch with a 35 mm forstner bit. I had a Festool CTL26 on its highest setting attached to the fence while drilling. The centre of the hole was about 20 mm from the front of the fence.

I can certainly appreciate the difference with and without the vacuum port. I don't have the WP Pro fence, but vacuum up after I'm done with each Forstner hole, and it is a mess.

hdv · « **Reply #31 on:** July 07, 2022, 01:28 PM »

When I still used my large diameter loc-line for dust control I had significantly less chips on the table after drilling a hole like this. But I do like this fence enough to not mind. Considering the amount of chips I would have to deal with without DC I feel this is good enough. Mind you, this is about the worst scenario you can get chip-wise. Besides, it is easy enough to nudge these chips towards the dust port with a little blow. If it were not for the less than stellar fine adjustable flips stops I would give this fence full points.

Cheese · « **Reply #32 on:** July 26, 2022, 01:11 AM »

Quote from: hdv on July 04, 2022, 01:33 PM

@Cheese : thanks for confirming that

Maybe an e-mail will effect more results. I tried by referring to @jeffinsgf earlier in this thread, but he might not have read it yet. I really am interested in that improved solution he said was in the works.

Here's that post by him:

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tool-reviews/woodpeckers-drill-press-pro-fence-flip-stops/msg637086/#msg637086

[Edit: thread not threat... ]

Well here's the latest from my end...I emailed Woodpeckers and sent them a couple of photos of the issue I was having, mainly that the flip stops didn't operate correctly and that the diameter of the adjustment knobs were so large that it interfered with the placement of tall wood against the fence. Woodpeckers as usual, quickly answered my email and the same day issued a warranty claim. Four days later I received 2 new flip stops in the mail.

On the original flip stop arm the hub diameter was not a fully machined diameter which left a small projection that prevented tall boards from registering properly against the fence.

The rest of the photos are pretty self explanatory...original design vs redesign.

hdv · « **Reply #33 on:** July 26, 2022, 05:44 AM »

That is an improvement indeed. I think I will e-mail them as well about the same issue. Thanks for the update!

Of course, that still leaves the fine-adjustment feature. I had hoped Woodpeckers would have some news about that. Not so (up to now at least). They do tell you to make sure to have the arm mounted on the proper side (when drilling left or right of the stop) to reduce flex. However, that does not make any difference when it comes to the slop in the fine-adjust mechanism (at least not in my pair).

Mike Goetzke · « **Reply #34 on:** July 26, 2022, 10:44 AM »

I just received my new WP DP-Pro system couple weeks ago. My flip-stop wheels and flag did not interfere with tall boards but on one the fine adjustment wheel would bind badly and jump. I took it apart and found on one side of the wheel they use a nylon spacer and on the other a wavy washer. The wavy washer looks too big in diameter to me and there isn’t a feature to keep it concentric with the threaded bolt. I think what was happening was the wavy washer came in contact with the threads causing the bind.

Just like @Cheese WP immediately sent out two new stops. I didn’t take them apart but appears they have a smaller diameter wavy washer. What I didn’t like is the flags that came with new stops had that pointy nub that had to be ground down. Not a big deal but not something I would expect out of WP. (I don’t understand why the extrusion would have that nub. Seems the die to make the extrusion would be easier to make with a smooth round shape.)

Mike

Cheese · « **Reply #35 on:** July 26, 2022, 11:39 AM »

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on July 26, 2022, 10:44 AM

What I didn’t like is the flags that came with new stops had that pointy nub that had to be ground down. Not a big deal but not something I would expect out of WP. (I don’t understand why the extrusion would have that nub. Seems the die to make the extrusion would be easier to make with a smooth round shape.)

Mike, the real weird thing is the original flip stops I received, one had the protrusion and one had the protrusion machined off. Fast forward about 18 months and the 2 new flip stops I just received...one has the protrusion and one has the protrusion machined off. Go figure.

And with the flip stop in the up position, that protrusion will prevent a tall board from resting flat against the fence.

4nthony · « **Reply #36 on:** July 26, 2022, 01:16 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on July 26, 2022, 11:39 AM

Mike, the real weird thing is the original flip stops I received, one had the protrusion and one had the protrusion machined off. Fast forward about 18 months and the 2 new flip stops I just received...one has the protrusion and one has the protrusion machined off. Go figure. And with the flip stop in the up position, that protrusion will prevent a tall board from resting flat against the fence.

That's exactly how I received mine a few weeks ago.

Everything else was fine with the stops so I just rounded it off on the belt sander.

grbmds · « **Reply #37 on:** July 26, 2022, 03:44 PM »

Quote from: JD2720 on July 01, 2022, 08:50 AM

This is my home made fence with dust collection. The table is from Incra that I got from Woodpeckers many years ago.

Quote from: Mike Goetzke on July 04, 2022, 08:19 PM

Wow - was almost ready to put about $600 out for one of these. Seems WP missed some very basic flaws on this one.

Maybe I just build one myself like I did 20+ years ago. That one had a wood block with a T-bolt that fastened to a t-track on the face of the fence.

The idea of the flip stops to me is you can use them on the right or left. Many times you want both on one side of the bit. Now WP wants you to take the stop apart and reassemble it every time you switch it over?

I bought the DP pro when it came out and am satisfied. Is it perfect? Certainly not. I owned the Incra parts fence (that I believe was made by Woodpeckers years ago) for many years, but it was never perfect either. It had a lot of flexibility but also had some flaws.

When I replaced it with the DP Pro, there were 2 things which disappointed me. The first was dust collection but I take responsibility for not realizing that the only time the dust collection works well is when the piece being drilled is below the top of the fence. Otherwise the hole in the fence is covered. So I just use my old method of dust collection which was already mounted on the drill press.

The other issue for me was that the nice, easy to grab knobs for holding the fence in place stuck up just far enough that, on many tasks, they obstructed my drill press handles. I ended up replacing the knobs with some other metal knurled Woodpecker knobs that I don't use from another WP tool I bought. As for the drawer, I think it's great. It gives me storage for bits and hold downs. On the stops, they aren't perfect but I found them easy to use with a short learning period and, while a little touchy they aren't bad.

I have found over they years that it is the rare tool or jig which is perfect, even if homemade. I like to spend my time working on woodworking and building and turning, not making tables and jigs, so I think the DP Pro works fine for me.

jeffinsgf · « **Reply #38 on:** July 29, 2022, 03:01 PM »

Sorry I haven't checked FOG for a few weeks, guys.

I just spoke to the product engineer on the DP-PRO. He had a head-slap moment when I showed him 4nthony's picture of one correct and one incorrect stop flag from the same order shipment. The decision was made to machine the stops rather than pay for a new extrusion die at this point in time. That assumes that everyone is on the same page and remembers to send the flags from the cutting station to milling. Apparently the unmilled and milled flags have been co-mingled.

Anyone with a flag that has the wart on the back should contact Customer Service to have a replacement sent at no cost.

Same thing for you guys that bought on the original release and have the flip stops that stick out beyond the fence and/or have the micro-adjuster that self-adjusts when you raise and lower the flag. Contact Customer Service and we'll get replacements out to you at our expense.

hdv · « **Reply #39 on:** July 29, 2022, 04:48 PM »

Jeff, I did as recommended and within an hour got a reply that replacements were on their way. Great service!

grbmds · « **Reply #40 on:** August 01, 2022, 04:02 PM »

Quote from: jeffinsgf on July 29, 2022, 03:01 PM

Sorry I haven't checked FOG for a few weeks, guys.

I just spoke to the product engineer on the DP-PRO. He had a head-slap moment when I showed him 4nthony's picture of one correct and one incorrect stop flag from the same order shipment. The decision was made to machine the stops rather than pay for a new extrusion die at this point in time. That assumes that everyone is on the same page and remembers to send the flags from the cutting station to milling. Apparently the unmilled and milled flags have been co-mingled.

Anyone with a flag that has the wart on the back should contact Customer Service to have a replacement sent at no cost.

Same thing for you guys that bought on the original release and have the flip stops that stick out beyond the fence and/or have the micro-adjuster that self-adjusts when you raise and lower the flag. Contact Customer Service and we'll get replacements out to you at our expense.

Thanks for bringing the stop flaw to our attention. Both of mine weren't round. I emailed Woodpeckers over the weekend and got a notice today that new stops were shipped. I actually never had any problem with them as they are but I haven't used the stops very much. I love the table though and I changed from the old Woodpeckers table made with Incra parts. Loved that table but I have never liked the Incra micro-adjust fence attachment.

Mini Me · « **Reply #41 on:** August 01, 2022, 08:27 PM »

Quote from: hdv on July 29, 2022, 04:48 PM

Jeff, I did as recommended and within an hour got a reply that replacements were on their way. Great service!

Maybe I am a bit slow but why did WP release a product that clearly had a design fault in the first place, to me that is simply shoddy design and bad business practise.

hdv · « **Reply #42 on:** August 02, 2022, 05:30 AM »

Maybe they just didn't realise it at the time? I can't count the times I did something and afterwards thought "What the heck was I thinking?". It is easy to be perfect with hindsight. No one is infallible... But how things are handled after you realise is what says much about a company's willingness to treat their customers properly. In this case I would say they did quite good, wouldn't you?

Mini Me · « **Reply #43 on:** August 02, 2022, 07:40 AM »

I don't buy that, I think they are simply poor at product development on some stuff and don't have a user group to test their products on.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #44 on:** August 02, 2022, 08:50 AM »

I think Jeff said they realized the issue with their extrusion and instituted a secondary milling operation to correct it. The failure came when some parts didn't get the secondary operation before making it out the door.

Sounds like they've corrected the issue and are taking care of their customers affected by it.

RMW

grbmds · « **Reply #45 on:** August 02, 2022, 09:51 AM »

After all the successes Woodpeckers have had over many years, product design and development is hardly a problem they need to overcome. There aren't many that have been sold that are flawed. This is the first one I've bought from them that had a problem. Because they have excellent support and are highly responsive, I don't consider this much of an issue, especially since they are fixing it quickly.

4nthony · « **Reply #46 on:** August 02, 2022, 11:58 AM »

Quote from: Mini Me on August 02, 2022, 07:40 AM

...and don't have a user group to test their products on.

I see woodworkers on social media using Woodpeckers products before they are released so I would guess some people are testing things out. I would also think they have a fairly competent team of woodworker employees that are able to test things as well.

The Combo-T was just announced and this guy already has one. Whether or not he's a tester or just creating buzz for the product is unknown, but people seem to be getting products early for various purposes.

pantherjoe · « **Reply #47 on:** March 17, 2023, 01:12 PM »

Love the dp table but I have bench top Nova and I loose too much drill travel due to the drawer, any hacks on mounting it without the drawer?

jeffinsgf · « **Reply #48 on:** March 17, 2023, 01:49 PM »

Quote from: pantherjoe on March 17, 2023, 01:12 PM

Love the dp table but I have bench top Nova and I loose too much drill travel due to the drawer, any hacks on mounting it without the drawer?

Mill some strips of hardwood or BB plywood that will create clearance for the extension rods. Place those between the DP table and the aux table.

alltracman78 · « **Reply #49 on:** March 31, 2023, 10:50 AM »

Quote from: 4nthony on July 06, 2022, 02:14 PM

I wonder if a better flip stop would combine the micro-adjust of the WP with the two flag version like the INCRA? Or, if something like the Katz-Moses stop block could incorporate a hinge?

Maybe the TSO idea would work best. They've decoupled the micro-adjust from the pivot point.

Anyway, enough of my rambling for now

What about the Woodpeckers stealth stop? I have a couple on order so I can't provide pictures, but they seem to get rid of most of the problems with the flag type stops. One of the reasons I ordered them.

ChuckS · « **Reply #50 on:** March 31, 2023, 11:10 AM »

The WP's stealthstop is a great concept except with one critical deficiency: it is not tool-free to use.

Whether it's the table saw, the drill press or the miter saw, I don't want to make any frequent adjustments that would require me to pick up a screwdriver or a hex key or a wrench in the middle of an operation. Look at how we set the fence, use the miter gauge, tilt the miter sawhead, etc. -- all tool-free.

Imagine the inconvenience of finding and using a tool every time you wanted to set the width of a cut on the table saw or the boring depth on the drill press.

Given the resourcefulness and thinking outside-the-box attitude of their design team, WP should redesign the stealth stops so they can be set using some kind of friction fit or method that is tool-free.

4nthony · « **Reply #51 on:** March 31, 2023, 12:08 PM »

Quote from: ChuckS on March 31, 2023, 11:10 AM

The WP's stealthstop is a great concept except with one critical deficiency: it is not tool-free to use.

Whether it's the table saw, the drill press or the miter saw, I don't want to make any frequent adjustments that would require me to pick up a screwdriver or a hex key or a wrench in the middle of an operation. Look at how we set the fence, use the miter gauge, tilt the miter sawhead, etc. -- all tool-free.

Imagine the inconvenience of finding and using a tool every time you wanted to set the width of a cut on the table saw or the boring depth on the drill press.

For some tools, I've gotten into the habit of putting pieces of blue tape with hex sizes written on them to remind what size I need to grab when adjusting.

Quote

Given the resourcefulness and thinking outside-the-box attitude of their design team, WP should redesign the stealth stops so they can be set using some kind of friction fit or method that is tool-free.

I wonder if they could add a second micro-adjust that would expand a set screw(s) to grip the track?

ChuckS · « **Reply #52 on:** March 31, 2023, 12:20 PM »

Wow...did you Photoshop it? That looks so real, and your suggestion sounds very promising.

Cheese · « **Reply #53 on:** March 31, 2023, 12:30 PM »

Quote from: 4nthony on March 31, 2023, 12:08 PM

I wonder if they could add a second micro-adjust that would expand a set screw(s) to grip the track?

Great idea...

...and it looks pretty straightforward to implement.

4nthony · « **Reply #54 on:** March 31, 2023, 12:35 PM »

Quote from: ChuckS on March 31, 2023, 12:20 PM

Wow...did you Photoshop it? That looks so real, and your suggestion sounds very promising.

Yeah, it's a pretty quick operation.

select -> copy -> paste -> flip -> rotate -> position

I use a Mac app called Pixelmator. There's two versions, Pro and Classic, but I prefer the Classic version. Only because the UI changed in Pro and I haven't taken the time to learn it. It's way more powerful for people that actually need all the things it does. I get frustrated trying to use it.

ChuckS · « **Reply #55 on:** March 31, 2023, 12:58 PM »

WP should make the upgrade...and "reward" us duly and properly:

Chuck - for bringing it up
4nthony - for coming up with the solution
Cheese - for confirming the need for an upgrade!

ChuckS · « **Reply #56 on:** March 31, 2023, 01:23 PM »

Quote from: 4nthony on March 31, 2023, 12:08 PM

The WP's stealthstop is a great concept except with one critical deficiency: it is not tool-free to use.

Whether it's the table saw, the drill press or the miter saw, I don't want to make any frequent adjustments that would require me to pick up a screwdriver or a hex key or a wrench in the middle of an operation. Look at how we set the fence, use the miter gauge, tilt the miter sawhead, etc. -- all tool-free.

Imagine the inconvenience of finding and using a tool every time you wanted to set the width of a cut on the table saw or the boring depth on the drill press.

For some tools, I've gotten into the habit of putting pieces of blue tape with hex sizes written on them to remind what size I need to grab when adjusting.

Snip.

Where an adjustment tool (a hex key or a small screwdriver) is needed, I put it right with the machine or hand tools (e.g. the plow plane) (magnet as the holder). I keep duplicate hex keys.

alltracman78 · « **Reply #57 on:** March 31, 2023, 01:27 PM »

Quote from: ChuckS on March 31, 2023, 11:10 AM

The WP's stealthstop is a great concept except with one critical deficiency: it is not tool-free to use.

Given the resourcefulness and thinking outside-the-box attitude of their design team, WP should redesign the stealth stops so they can be set using some kind of friction fit or method that is tool-free.

Good point.
That used to drive me nuts with my Incra router table fence. Always having to break out the allens.

And thanks for bringing this up AFTER I order some.

Quote from: 4nthony on March 31, 2023, 12:08 PM

For some tools, I've gotten into the habit of putting pieces of blue tape with hex sizes written on them to remind what size I need to grab when adjusting.

I wonder if they could add a second micro-adjust that would expand a set screw(s) to grip the track?

Both great ideas.

4nthony · « **Reply #58 on:** March 31, 2023, 02:52 PM »

Quote from: ChuckS on March 31, 2023, 12:58 PM

WP should make the upgrade...and "reward" us duly and properly:

Chuck - for bringing it up
4nthony - for coming up with the solution
Cheese - for confirming the need for an upgrade!

Woot! I'm all for it

jeffinsgf · « **Reply #59 on:** March 31, 2023, 04:11 PM »

If only actually designing it were as simple as a Photoshop cut and paste.

The product engineer and I were kicking similar ideas around in my shop the other day. Personally, I don't mind the hex key. I live with an 1/8" screwdriver handle hex key in my back pocket most of the time I'm in the shop.

I guess I'm willing to live with using a tool because I love so many other things about the stop. The contact surface of the locking pad is enormous. It grips in the track so nicely, with only moderate pressure. There's a scene in one of the first StealthStop videos where I am actually beating on the stop with a hammer, and it didn't move or break. I'm not sure how many of our other stops could take that.

I don't know if there will be a StealthStop 2.0 and/or if it will be tool-less, but I can confirm the discussion has some legs in the building.