Author Topic: The Complete "Jointmaker Pro" Review..... A Paradigm Shift in Woodworking (Read 172263 times)

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #60 on:** June 17, 2008, 10:26 PM »

Quote from: Ben West on June 17, 2008, 09:16 PM

Roger,

You're doing a great job, and I for one look forward to a comprehensive review, not a shallow analysis. We can get that from their website already.

The only man who makes no mistakes is the man who never does anything.

Teddy Roosevelt

....is making a big mistake.

Ron Dunn · « **Reply #61 on:** June 18, 2008, 05:33 AM »

Right ... [pause] ... left ... right ... left ... left ... [pause] ... left ... left ... right ... [hop] ... [stumble] ...

Nothing like being completely out of step.

Sorry, Roger, I'll curb my impatience.

Ron.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #62 on:** June 18, 2008, 03:31 PM »

Quote from: Roger Savatteri on June 18, 2008, 02:21 PM

UPDATE ....

the Saw Blade Changes, Operation and Longevity section of the Jointmaker Pro review is now up.

Jump to.......... http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=3889.0 and scroll down to posts #5 & #6

all the best,
Roger Savatteri

Thanks for the new material on blades and how to trash them

Since there are several ways for a new owner to quickly ruin the blade
it would be smart for Bridge City to include two crosscut blades in the package.

JD2720 · « **Reply #63 on:** June 19, 2008, 10:31 PM »

I saw the Jointmaker Pro demonstration at Popular Woodworking Magazine's shop tonight. It is an impressive tool. The cuts were amazing.
John Economaki the tool's inventer put on a great demo.

Ron Dunn · « **Reply #64 on:** July 06, 2008, 04:42 AM »

Is this ever going to get finished?

Over two weeks since the last post by anyone, let alone the reviewer.

I think, by now, you see exactly what I meant earlier by my comments about lost momentum.

Eli · « **Reply #65 on:** July 06, 2008, 07:01 AM »

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you have six posts here.

What have you done lately that's so great Mr. Impatient? Why don't you post something for us to read in the meantime?

Kick off your shoes, settle back, AND WAIT. $:-\$

Ron Dunn · « **Reply #66 on:** July 06, 2008, 07:10 AM »

Wait for what? The second coming??

The only reason I'm here is this thread, because I'm interested in this tool. You'll be pleased to know that the sooner it is over, the sooner I'm on my way.

As for "waiting", the guy got offered this opportunity partly so that the tool deveoper could capitalise on the surge of interest at that time. Roger was partly responsible for that surge, with his post of the link to the Jointmaker video. When the makers of the tool made the opportunity for a forum member to review the tool, Roger was pushed to the top of the pack by Nickao. Remember him?

There were a lot of other people who could have done the job - reviewing the tool in a timely manner. Now the wave has passed in this forum. A wasted opportunity.

The fact that there was NO POST in this thread for over two weeks shows that it has died. Whose fault is that? Certainly not mine.

douglas2cats · « **Reply #67 on:** July 06, 2008, 07:35 AM »

I'm as eager to see the rest of this as the next guy, but Roger's doing a very good job of it while also trying to handle his day job. I'd rather see him take his time than rush the rest of it to completion at a lesser quality than his review so far. Also keep in mind that a few days of this 2 weeks, the FOG site was down so no way to post even if it was ready.

Doug

Ron Dunn · « **Reply #68 on:** July 06, 2008, 08:10 AM »

To my mind the "day job" thing is just an excuse. Did he take the assignment expecting it to be a holiday? If not, he should have factored the amount of work required into his schedule before deciding to accept.

This smacks of tradesmanitis. The guy who is all enthusiastic when quoting, who shows up on the first day, then has to be dragged kicking and screaming to actually complete the work ... always saying he'll get it done ... never his fault ... always the pressure of other jobs ... or the weather ... or something.

I know I'm out of step with a lot of forum opinion on this thread, but I raised a flag several weeks ago and no-one noticed. A couple of weeks ago I raised my hand and spoke, but no-one listened. Now I'm standing up and speaking loudly, and perhaps, just perhaps, the thread will get re-activated.

Eli · « **Reply #69 on:** July 06, 2008, 08:22 AM »

Quote from: Ron Dunn on July 06, 2008, 08:10 AM

To my mind the "day job" thing is just an excuse. Did he take the assignment expecting it to be a holiday? If not, he should have factored the amount of work required into his schedule before deciding to accept.

This smacks of tradesmanitis. The guy who is all enthusiastic when quoting, who shows up on the first day, then has to be dragged kicking and screaming to actually complete the work ... always saying he'll get it done ... never his fault ... always the pressure of other jobs ... or the weather ... or something.

I know I'm out of step with a lot of forum opinion on this thread, but I raised a flag several weeks ago and no-one noticed. A couple of weeks ago I raised my hand and spoke, but no-one listened. Now I'm standing up and speaking loudly, and perhaps, just perhaps, the thread will get re-activated.

Or maybe people will stop listening to you altogether. If his treatment of the review smacks of 'tradesmanitis' (sounds like you have issues), yours reminds me of nothing so much as my four year old's impatience. Are you in some sort of time crunch to get this tool on the job? Are you losing money as a result of having an incomplete review? At this point, is there anything crucial that Roger hasn't covered that's preventing you from buying the tool? If not, buy it, go away, and quit whining. Underlining the fact that you're only here for one thing and will be gone as soon as you get what you want makes me even less inclined to continue being marginally polite to you, single serving friend.

Roger Savatteri · « **Reply #70 on:** July 06, 2008, 09:05 AM »

First off, I'd like to sincerely thank Matthew for putting our ~~"Cheers Bar"~~ Festool Corner of the World back up.

It is a place I look forward to coming by as I awake each morning, and before I go to sleep each night.

I really appreciate the efforts that go behind such an endeavor.

To Everyone interested in this thread,

I will have the last remaining sections up by Wednesday.

It's actually all done, except for one part of one section, and I choose to put the rest up ....in it's entirety.

all the best,

Roger

....and by the way,

.....as to Mr Dunn's comments above, I'll repeat what I said earlier,

" I choose not to respond to this kind of attitude ", it is both rude & uncalled for.

Roger Savatteri · « **Reply #71 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:15 PM »

HELLO FOLKS,

There's a new "Jointmaker Pro" Video on making Dovetail Joints from Bridge City Tools.........

at John's blog...... http://www.bridgecitytools.com/blog/

or straight to you tube at.....

See everybody back here on Wednesday with the completed review.

all the best,
Roger

tallgrass · « **Reply #72 on:** July 09, 2008, 07:18 PM »

i was hoping for more in depth review.

Roger Savatteri · « **Reply #73 on:** July 09, 2008, 10:05 PM »

UPDATE

The Complete "Jointmaker Pro" Review is now up. ...........go to page one of this thread.

Also, this just in.......

This review would NOT be complete without a list of the changes I just received from John Economaki at Bridge City Tools outlining the changes from the Jointmaker Pro prototype to the production model coming out within 90 days. (Included within the section on "Value Thoughts on Engineering, Materials & Craftsmanship".)

regards,
Roger Savatteri

douglas2cats · « **Reply #74 on:** July 09, 2008, 10:20 PM »

This was almost as good as waiting on the 3rd installment of Lord of the Rings. Thanks for the very thorough job.

Matthew Schenker · « **Reply #75 on:** July 09, 2008, 11:08 PM »

Roger,
Thank you for putting in an incredible effort on this review! I appreciate how much work goes into creating something like this.
Thank you also to the people at Bridge City Tools for working with us to make the connection possible.
This was a great addition to the Festool Owners Group and I am proud to know it is now part of our forum!
Matthew

Eli · « **Reply #76 on:** July 10, 2008, 06:28 AM »

Thanks Roger. A good read, worth the wait, and I don't care what anybody says, that was a lot of work for you to do on your own shift.

Matthew Schenker · « **Reply #77 on:** July 10, 2008, 07:11 AM »

Everyone,
This project was the result of a great connection between the Festool Owners Group and the people at Bridge City Tools. It's an example of what can happen when you have communities of creative, energetic people. The results are mutually beneficial to fans of both companies.

Now that Roger has finished his review, I thought I'd just revisit how it all came to be...

The concept of the Jointmaker Pro arose when Roger Savatteri started a discussion he called "Very High Cool Factor". Until then, I had never heard of the Jointmaker Pro. But it made me curious.

I checked out the Bridge City Tools Web site, and that led me to the Jointmaker Pro video on YouTube:

That really got me curious. I started thinking, "wouldn't it be interesting to find a connection between the FOG and Bridge City?" So I wrote to John Economaki, the person behind the JointMaker Pro. I told him about Roger's post here in the FOG, and I shared my ideas about how the thinking behind the Joinmaker Pro is similar to the thinking behind Festool tools. I asked him to join our forum. John was understandably reluctant at first: he's been burned in the past by Internet forums. But I did not give up, and urged him to take a look at the FOG, promising that we're different here!

Mr. Economaki came in and took a look around, and was impressed with our forum. So he joined.

In several ensuing e-mail exchanges, John and I came up with the idea of having an FOG member travel to the Bridge City Tools location to take a close look at the Jointmaker Pro, then write up a full review of the experience for the FOG. When the question came up about who would be best for the job, it was clear that Mr. Savatteri was the one! We asked Roger to do this, and Roger agreed. Well, Roger did more than agree -- he jumped at the opportunity! John arranged the details, and made the visit happen.

Roger got the full experience at Bridge City. He came back home, armed with photos and notes and all kinds of ideas about what he saw. Working diligently over the course of several weeks, Roger put it all down here in this discussion, providing FOG members with an exhaustive look at the Jointmaker Pro.

Now, John Economaki has included Roger's visit in the latest entry of his Bridge City Blog. In that blog entry, John talks about the visit, as well as our forum, emphasizing the connection formed between Bridge City and the Festool Owners Group.

As a result of John's blog, a number of people joined the forum over the past couple of days. That means Bridge City fans now have a chance to become fans of Festool! And because of Roger's review, Festool fans now have a chance to become fans of the Jointmaker Pro!

In the end, this is a terrific example of a mutually beneficial connection between two unique tool companies, and the fans of those two companies. It's also a way of elevating the very idea of thinking differently!

Thanks to everyone who played a part in this model of connection.

Stay in touch,
Matthew

Frank Pellow · « **Reply #78 on:** July 10, 2008, 11:30 AM »

Thanks for the background details Matthew and, having read them, I must say: "well orchestrated".

I am sure that you are correct that many of the people who find Festool products interesting will also find the Jointmaker Pro to be of interest. I can assure you that I do.

greg mann · « **Reply #79 on:** July 10, 2008, 03:11 PM »

Great review, Roger. You are very articulate and thorough. I think most everyone here would agree that we got more from your efforts than any of us expected. There were pearls of wisdom throughout the review. Anyone who feels it wasn't worth the wait......

I love this line. You should add it to your salutations!

"(accuracy hygiene always requires checking the cut, not the set-up - never assume)."

JJEconomaki · « **Reply #80 on:** July 10, 2008, 04:06 PM »

Matthew/Roger/visitors and FOG members;

My first comment regarding Roger's review of our Jointmaker Pro is personal: You sir have completely eliminated any thoughts I may have had of running for public office. Yikes--you are thorough!

Matthew, thank you for inviting me to your forum. This is a lot of work and I would like to remind the readers of this board how lucky you are that Matthew volunteers his time to make this community possible.

I am ecstatic that there is at least one woodworking forum (maybe the only one) that has managed to attract open minded woodworkers--you are in a minority.

This process was stressful for us because so much is at stake (we are a small company). Roger's review is honest, obviously thorough and answers many questions a potential owner might have asked. I know if I was entertaining making a purchase of this stature this review would be very helpful.

Thanks to all for allowing this discussion to take place and if you have any further questions, I am sure Roger is capable of getting you an answer. If not, my email address is below.

Lastly, I will be demonstrating the Jointmaker Pro in Atlanta in August at the IWF exhibition in the booth of the manufacturer (8874). Michael and I will be demonstrating the Jointmaker Pro in November at the Woodworking in America conference in Berea, KY. If you visit, please stop by and introduce yourself, we would thoroughly enjoy meeting you.

Quality is Contagious,

John Economaki
john@bridgecitytools.com

Roger Savatteri · « **Reply #81 on:** July 17, 2008, 06:59 PM »

Bridge City Tools new decorative cuts video....

by the way,
the moldings you see in the video were also done silently, with a selection of BCT's planes.

b_m_hart · « **Reply #82 on:** July 17, 2008, 07:05 PM »

The cuts that allowed the piece of wood to bend in that video were pretty amazing - there's a LOT of potential for interesting uses for such stuff.

Steven in Iowa · « **Reply #83 on:** August 14, 2008, 08:33 AM »

Quote from: Ron Dunn on July 06, 2008, 04:42 AM

Is this ever going to get finished?

Over two weeks since the last post by anyone, let alone the reviewer.

I think, by now, you see exactly what I meant earlier by my comments about lost momentum.

Take your comments elsewhere, we don't need the negativity about another's creativity.

douglas2cats · « **Reply #84 on:** August 14, 2008, 08:54 AM »

I got the email yesterday from BCTW that the offishul pre-ordering period has begun. Price goes up after Aug 28.

Dovetail65 · « **Reply #85 on:** August 30, 2008, 08:41 PM »

I have not looked at this from just before summer until the last hour or so.

What an awesome review. It was worth the wait and to the people complaining about the wait I will only say you were way off base. I am glad I did not go or do the review because there is absolutely no way I would or could devote the time required to do a review of this caliber.

I would much rather have this tool than a kapex any day of the week. Even if the kapex worked flawlessly it is only a miter box after all, but this is one unique tool that nothing else can compare to when cutting smaller pieces.

Great job and I can not wait to receive mine!

Nickao

Tinker · « **Reply #86 on:** August 31, 2008, 09:08 AM »

Nick
The Jointmaker Pro looks like the perfect fit for your work.
I hope you can give us a good rundown after you have offishuly put it thru its paces.

I thoroughly enjoyed Roger's excellent report. his work, I think, were under controlled conditions with some onsite input from the designer.
I appreciate all of his effort and time spent. He went to a lot of work and expertise. My comment in no way is meant to diminnish that fact

I am assuming your first use to be on your own. No onsite input from designer. Projects of your own (and unusual) designs Things will have to fit first time. No room for error. Less controlled situation. etc/etc/etc

keep us posted, pleez
Tinker

Dovetail65 · « **Reply #87 on:** August 31, 2008, 09:13 AM »

Yes, I will be working alone, I always do and I do not think my little garage shop and small business warrants any visitors or input by the tools designer.

I want to use it mainly to cut smaller pieces that tend to be unsafe or impossible using a miter or table saw.

Nick

Tinker · « **Reply #88 on:** September 07, 2008, 06:26 AM »

Quote from: nickao on August 30, 2008, 08:41 PM

I have not looked at this from just before summer until the last hour or so.

What an awesome review. It was worth the wait and to the people complaining about the wait I will only say you were way off base. I am glad I did not go or do the review because there is absolutely no way I would or could devote the time required to do a review of this caliber.

I would much rather have this tool than a kapex any day of the week. Even if the kapex worked flawlessly it is only a miter box after all, but this is one unique tool that nothing else can compare to when cutting smaller pieces.

Great job and I can not wait to receive mine!

Nickao

Nickao, Have you received your JMP yet?
I am (as others the same, I am sure) anxiously awaiting your report.
This is a tool i am certain will work in my very limited space/small projects shop.

I think it might not work too well for larger projects where rails and styles (example) might well be 5 or 6 feet long.
Of course, if i make large projects with both bulk and weight, they need to be made in knockdown sections so i can get them out of my basement shop. For the size projects I am gravitating to, i think this toy would be purrrfect.

Tinker

neilc · « **Reply #89 on:** September 07, 2008, 10:18 AM »

I talked to Bridge City in August, and they're taking orders now, but are not shipping till likely November.

neil