Author Topic: Shaper Origin Up-date? (Read 9379 times)

Crazyraceguy · « **on:** May 17, 2023, 05:42 PM »

When I started my Origin this morning, it said it was ready for an update. It gave me the option of now or later. I had time, so I allowed it to go right then. It took the few minutes that I said it would and then just went to the normal screen.
I guess I expected it to tell me what it did? This wasn't the name-change type update, like it has done before, unless I missed something? It has been running Jenner since that downloaded, and if I remember right, there was a bit of a tutorial after?
Did it go beyond Jenner already? K-something? I didn't start it again today to see the screen that shows the version.

neilc · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2023, 05:50 PM »

There was a mention on the Shaper Forums that they now offer a 15 day free trial on Autopass. It might be that this update enables that free trial.

4nthony · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2023, 05:58 PM »

Mine updated today also. It's still Jenner but a point update to 3.7.18.0 (I think that's what it was will confirm when I'm back in front of it).

After the update, I tried to search for release notes but didn't find anything. Like most phone apps, it's probably just "bug fixes and improvements".

I didn't pay attention to what the previous version was but software updates typically go major.minor.revision. I don't know if this was a minor or revision update.

tjbnwi · « **Reply #3 on:** May 17, 2023, 06:12 PM »

Updated this morning, now I’m having issues with Auto Pass. When I tap Auto pass the depth goes to zero, shows 5 passes but no depth. I didn’t haver time to play with it, I’ll check again in a couple of days to see if there is a correction to this.

Tom

festal · « **Reply #4 on:** May 18, 2023, 07:17 AM »

Its the autopass free trial update. So no new features released except for trying out autopass which should have been available from the start. Oh well

PaulMarcel · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2023, 06:01 AM »

For those who have AutoPass or tried it, how do you like it? Other than the first introductory video of it, I don't know more details. I'd hope that I could encode depth information in software other than Shaper Studio.

I'm okay with the one-time charge for AutoPass, but the subscription for Shaper Studio would be pretty expensive for the few times I'd use it. Maybe I'd use it more, but I guarantee that there'd be a lot of "paid but unused" months between uses. Plus, I doubt they do edge tracing off a photo, my next need.

woodferret · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2023, 07:09 AM »

Skip Studio and encode it in whatever software app you want using the layer naming convention...

https://svgdepth.azurewebsites.net/

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2023, 07:18 AM »

Love it. Not only does it speed things up by removing the need to constantly set depths, ramping into a cut makes a huge difference. Especially with bits that are not made for plunge cutting.

I did 56 counterbores yesterday in 19mm MDF, a 9mm through hole and 8mm deep 17mm counterbore. Helix through a series of holes, then back through the series using AP to counterbore. I'd have had to reset the cut depths 2-3 times for each counterbore without AP. Total took ~ 1 hour, and I never needed to set a depth since that was encoded using Studio. This is a simple example but it's hard to overemphasize the improvement over needing to set cut depths manually.

Similar to Festool, if you buy into the entire "system" (SO/Workstation/Plate/Studio/Autopass) you can really reap the benefits. AP was probably the best $200 spent on the system, to the point of "prying it from my cold, dead..." now.

If you take the free trial, make sure to do it in a time period when you can focus on learning and making a lot of cuts, then make a similar cut without it.

RE: Studio, aside from being dead simple, the real value prop is it avoids the need to design/export/upload. I switched from F360 on a computer in my upstairs office to Studio on a retired Surface Pro 3 sitting in the shop. With F360 I needed to walk inside/upstairs, make the design change, export it, upload to the hub, walk back out to the shop. With studio I make a tweak, turn around to SO and it's there. I absolutely hate the subscription model, but I'll grit my teeth & pay for this one.

RMW

WastedP · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2023, 09:41 AM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on May 17, 2023, 06:12 PM

Updated this morning, now I’m having issues with Auto Pass. When I tap Auto pass the depth goes to zero, shows 5 passes but no depth. I didn’t haver time to play with it, I’ll check again in a couple of days to see if there is a correction to this.

Tom

@tjbnwi , any change on that? I haven't used my SO yet since the update. I have AP, so I'll skip the update for now.

It's possible that not every SO user needs Autopass, but if time is money, AP is worth the latter to save a bunch of the former.

Studio is great for making quick changes to a file, and as RMW says, the integration is worth it. It's very simple software, and pretty easy to learn quick. It's not perfect; there are plenty of changes and updates I'd like to see. For more complicated work, I'm using Inkscape, but everything from there gets imported into Studio for tweaking.

ElectricFeet · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2023, 09:48 AM »

Quote from: PaulMarcel on May 21, 2023, 06:01 AM

For those who have AutoPass or tried it, how do you like it?

It’s a game-changer, frankly. Makes every complex task easier. I resisted at first, but eventually decided to take the plunge and wouldn’t go back. I wish it were free, as it makes the tool more complete, but given they’ve made the decision to separate it out as a separate purchase, it is worth adding on.

It reduces errors and reduces the possibility of errors. Even if you don’t code the depths in the svg file, just setting all the passes at once at the beginning of the process, rather than in between the passes makes it all much easier — you’re doing all the arithmetic once and then doing all the cutting/controlling once, rather than interspersing the two of them. I find it cognitively less stressful as I can relax and concentrate fully on controlling the machine / feeling how it is reacting etc, rather than trying to remember what the next cut-depth will be.

Quote from: PaulMarcel on May 21, 2023, 06:01 AM

I'd hope that I could encode depth information in software other than Shaper Studio.

You can. Set the path-names in, for example, Affinity Designer and then run the svg through this utility (see the help section for what you need to do to make it work). It works a treat.

Affinity does everything Studio does and it’s a one-off payment. The interface is — of necessity — much more complex, as it does much more. With Studio, you’re paying for a simple interface and integration with the machine. Good if you’re a newbie to vector design. One unique thing that Studio does is allow you to see how the cut will look, with the Plan tab. But I can live without that. I may revisit this decision in the future if they make major additions, but for now I’m good with Autopass without Studio. YMMV.

JimH2 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2023, 10:09 AM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on May 17, 2023, 06:12 PM

Updated this morning, now I’m having issues with Auto Pass. When I tap Auto pass the depth goes to zero, shows 5 passes but no depth. I didn’t haver time to play with it, I’ll check again in a couple of days to see if there is a correction to this.

Tom

It takes money to maintain software with bug fixes and enhancements. They do not charge for version upgrades so paying for a single feature is more than fair. No one likes to pay, but if you write software (or do anything requiring ongoing work) you do like to get paid. $200 is nothing when you drop $3K for the tool. Plus I want continuous improvements and will pay when I need what they are peddling.

JimH2 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2023, 10:12 AM »

Quote from: PaulMarcel on May 21, 2023, 06:01 AM

For those who have AutoPass or tried it, how do you like it? Other than the first introductory video of it, I don't know more details. I'd hope that I could encode depth information in software other than Shaper Studio.

I'm okay with the one-time charge for AutoPass, but the subscription for Shaper Studio would be pretty expensive for the few times I'd use it. Maybe I'd use it more, but I guarantee that there'd be a lot of "paid but unused" months between uses. Plus, I doubt they do edge tracing off a photo, my next need.

$99/year works out to $8.25/month and it meets two requirements for many: easy to use and cost effective. Some do not have the time to learn Affinity or the others and can start working immediately with Studio while they hone their skills in any of the other options.

tjbnwi · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2023, 12:01 PM »

Quote from: WastedP on May 21, 2023, 09:41 AM

Quote from: tjbnwi on May 17, 2023, 06:12 PM
Updated this morning, now I’m having issues with Auto Pass. When I tap Auto pass the depth goes to zero, shows 5 passes but no depth. I didn’t haver time to play with it, I’ll check again in a couple of days to see if there is a correction to this.

Tom

@tjbnwi , any change on that? I haven't used my SO yet since the update. I have AP, so I'll skip the update for now.

It's possible that not every SO user needs Autopass, but if time is money, AP is worth the latter to save a bunch of the former.

Studio is great for making quick changes to a file, and as RMW says, the integration is worth it. It's very simple software, and pretty easy to learn quick. It's not perfect; there are plenty of changes and updates I'd like to see. For more complicated work, I'm using Inkscape, but everything from there gets imported into Studio for tweaking.

I have not had a chance to use the Shaper since I had the issue with the update. Been busy figuring out this one….

I need to make a few small parts this week with the Shaper, I’ll let you know what I find.

Tom

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2023, 12:03 PM »

Quote from: WastedP on May 21, 2023, 09:41 AM

It's not perfect; there are plenty of changes and updates I'd like to see.

Agreed. What's surprised me is the slow pace of changes. I'd assumed the SAAS/cloud model would mean they'd iterate and improve rapidly/frequently. Since its release, I think there has been one minor update and a couple bug fixes. There have been many requested/suggested features that are really promising ideas, & all we get are crickets.

Overall, love the tool & system but I'm disappointed at the approach to updates.

RMW

tjbnwi · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2023, 12:06 PM »

Quote from: JimH2 on May 21, 2023, 10:09 AM

Quote from: tjbnwi on May 17, 2023, 06:12 PM
Updated this morning, now I’m having issues with Auto Pass. When I tap Auto pass the depth goes to zero, shows 5 passes but no depth. I didn’t haver time to play with it, I’ll check again in a couple of days to see if there is a correction to this.

Tom

It takes money to maintain software with bug fixes and enhancements. They do not charge for version upgrades so paying for a single feature is more than fair. No one likes to pay, but if you write software (or do anything requiring ongoing work) you do like to get paid. $200 is nothing when you drop $3K for the tool. Plus I want continuous improvements and will pay when I need what they are peddling.

I purchased Auto Pass within a few months of it being introduce. Had/have no issue paying for it. Never had an issue with Auto Pass until the last update.

heck, I pay for the full version of Fusion 360, matters to me not what it costs as long as it works. It does what I need it to do and then some so I wont be using Studio.

Tom

rvieceli · « **Reply #15 on:** May 21, 2023, 12:44 PM »

That thing looks really nice Tom. Is it cranking out carcass parts yet?

I notice a stack of ply on the back end, does the machine auto feed those in?

Ron

tjbnwi · « **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2023, 03:36 PM »

Quote from: rvieceli on May 21, 2023, 12:44 PM

That thing looks really nice Tom. Is it cranking out carcass parts yet?

I notice a stack of ply on the back end, does the machine auto feed those in?

Ron

Thanks.

The installer/set-up person got done with his part on Friday about 3PM. We cut one cabinet carcass. This has allowed us to make some tweaks. Shelf pin holes not located properly was the only issue on that case.

We have the next job loaded into the units software. We have it set to load a sheet, machine, vacuum the piece, push the piece onto the unloader, vacuum the spoil board a second time, load the next piece, then dwell/rest. This will allow us to examine each sheet more closely and correct any issues instead of wasting 37 sheets of 3/4 pre-finished.

Once we’re comfortable with the machine and our ability to program the machine (Cabinet Vision creates the NC code as the design is being created) will load and unload the cut bed automatically. Once on the unload table the parts get labeled and loaded into carts.

There are certain operations we’re working through if it will be easier on the CNC or using the shaper and saws like we do now.

Tom

rvieceli · « **Reply #17 on:** May 21, 2023, 05:58 PM »

Super. Sounds like a game changer once you get going.

Crazyraceguy · « **Reply #18 on:** May 21, 2023, 06:11 PM »

@PaulMarcel I like it a lot. I went with the Studio subscription fairly early after the release and it has made a big difference for me. I use the Origin much more, more often, and in more complex ways, since learning it. That prompted me to go with Auto-Pass. The two of them have made improved my experience a lot.
The one note that I would make about its use is to be more aware of your starting place. It seems, to me at least, that it works much more smoothly if I start in an open straight area. I like it to be at the full depth of the ramp before I encounter a corner. This will also end and retract in that straight area. You have to feel it a few times to learn to judge how much distance that takes. The entire feeling of the machine is different than when it just plunges down to the depth you tell it.
As it is now, Auto-Pass does not function during pocketing mode. If you already have AP turned on and switch to pocketing, you will get a warning screen (and have to switch it off)
This makes a little sense, I guess. It would have to know that the entire pocket was in fact cut to the first level before moving on. I suppose it could do that by the blue cut-history? But that would force you to have to cover 100% of the pocket, every time. I would imagine that they are working on this?
What I would really like to see is control of the Z axis while cutting. The helix and ramping of AP both show that it's possible. Then it could move more into the range of carving. I would like to see it to be able to make square corners with a V bit at least.

@tjbnwi
That's a good looking set-up you have there. It's similar to the main unit at my work, with a few key differences. Yours appears to have a height adjusting infeed table, though it's not obvious (to me at least) what moves the sheet onto the rollers?
Ours brings the sheets to the rollers from overhead via a crane with vacuum pods. Then the rollers move it up to the point where the CNC machine's gantry can lift/pull it with two more vacuum cups.
Another difference is in the outfeed belt. Yours looks much longer. Ours is 12 feet, about 4' before the overhead extraction and 8' after it. It has a laser across the exit to stop the pieces as they reach the end, advancing as you remove parts.
Does yours have a downward dust extraction area as it goes from the spoil-board to the outfeed belt?

tjbnwi · « **Reply #19 on:** May 21, 2023, 07:15 PM »

@PaulMarcel Auto Pass is worth every penny, if you use your Shaper it is worth the investment.

Tom

WastedP · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2023, 07:17 PM »

For multi-pass pocketing, I program concentric paths in Studio based on the tool diameter. The Design tab of Studio offers no way to do an offset path, but oddly enough it can be shown in the Plan tab. However, any offsets made in the Plan tab don't make it to the machine.

I'm guessing that AP will eventually support pocketing in this manner, but there are probably a bunch of obstacles to implementing this that I don't understand.

tjbnwi · « **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2023, 07:33 PM »

@Crazyraceguy

The unit does have the height adjustable in feed lift. The sheet is placed on the spoil board by a vacuum lift device on the gantry. The cups are circled below.

The cutting bed on the unit is 5x12. The out feed table is 18’ long. It has the laser with a foot pedal manual override.

There is a down draft system for the out feed. After looking at the picture I see the hose needs to be rerouted. The outer hose is for the dust extraction, the inner hose is for the tables vacuum hold down system. With an altitude of over 7200 above sea level there are 3 pumps for the table, two inboard, one outboard stand alone.

Tom

PaulMarcel · « **Reply #22 on:** May 22, 2023, 02:49 AM »

Excellent information from everybody. AutoPass seemed like a slam dunk to buy; cheaper overall than lesser-used accessories like edge guides and doesn't take a nail in the wall to hang. As everybody likes it, it's not a half-baked implementation just to get funds.

As little as I use large plans, continuing with Affinity Designer and the extra tool ElectricFeet suggested will suffice for now. Plus this next project involves a lot of photo tracing, which I know how to do in AD!

I do wish they'd offer an a-la-carte model where you could buy a month's use. If the subscription is around ~$8, make the a-la-carte month $15. Acts like a mini-subscription that expires in 30 days, but you could extend it like any subscription.

Crazyraceguy · « **Reply #23 on:** May 22, 2023, 05:41 PM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on May 21, 2023, 07:33 PM

@Crazyraceguy

The unit does have the height adjustable in feed lift. The sheet is placed on the spoil board by a vacuum lift device on the gantry. The cups are circled below.

(Attachment Link)

The cutting bed on the unit is 5x12. The out feed table is 18’ long. It has the laser with a foot pedal manual override.

There is a down draft system for the out feed. After looking at the picture I see the hose needs to be rerouted. The outer hose is for the dust extraction, the inner hose is for the tables vacuum hold down system. With an altitude of over 7200 above sea level there are 3 pumps for the table, two inboard, one outboard stand alone.

(Attachment Link)

Tom

From that photo, I can see the downdraft extraction. At 18 feet, your outfeed is quite a bit longer than ours, but doesn't seem to have overhead extraction at that point? What is the reasoning behind that length? It's well over the maximum sized sheet that fits the cutting area.
Since I am not an operator of that particular machine, I can't really say how much it helps. I do know how much that downdraft does. It's surprising how much gets trapped between parts because of compression bits. It makes a huge difference as the parts separate some while they move across it.
Sometimes I do run the secondary CNC. The machine itself is exactly the same, it just lacks the infeed and outfeed tables. It's completely manual in that respect. It is primarily there for alternative uses, to stay out of the way of production.
Thanks for sharing

tjbnwi · « **Reply #24 on:** May 23, 2023, 08:33 AM »

@Crazyraceguy

This machine will process a 5x12 sheet, not sure how they calculate the out feed length.

There is no overhead extraction for the outfeed table, the lack of it does not seem to be an issue.

Yep, lots of dust gets packed in the cuts.

Tom

Crazyraceguy · « **Reply #25 on:** May 23, 2023, 06:07 PM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on May 23, 2023, 08:33 AM

@Crazyraceguy

This machine will process a 5x12 sheet, not sure how they calculate the out feed length.

There is no overhead extraction for the outfeed table, the lack of it does not seem to be an issue.

Yep, lots of dust gets packed in the cuts.

Tom

Where it is most noticeable is in the dowel holes and shelf pin holes. The normal overhead extraction does pretty well with the rest and the downdraft gets the packed in stuff.
A few months after it was installed, I built a collector-box at the end of the conveyor belt too. There was always a line of crumbs on the floor where the rollers dropped it. It's even plumbed into the rest of the duct work, so it's self cleaning.

tjbnwi · « **Reply #26 on:** May 24, 2023, 08:50 AM »

I plan on fabricating a collector for the outfeed drop area, like you in a few months....

Tom

tjbnwi · « **Reply #27 on:** June 02, 2023, 06:18 PM »

I used the Origin today. Happy yo report Auto Pass worked just fine.

For those on the fence Auto Pass makes the Origin a totally different in a better way machine.

Tom

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #28 on:** June 02, 2023, 06:28 PM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on June 02, 2023, 06:18 PM

I used the Origin today. Happy yo report Auto Pass worked just fine.

For those on the fence Auto Pass makes the Origin a totally different in a better way machine.

Tom

Tom, thanks for the update. I've been staring at the little blue dot for the past couple of weeks but was holding off.

RMW

Crazyraceguy · « **Reply #29 on:** June 02, 2023, 08:08 PM »

Apparently the up-date didn't do anything negative to mine. I have been using it more frequently than ever before with no issues. If it was just the Auto-Pass, then nothing happened. If there were any "bug fixes" or performance enhancements, they were so smooth that I didn't even notice