Author Topic: Makita vs Festool? (Read 44159 times)

kevinculle · « **Reply #30 on:** March 09, 2018, 07:41 AM »

Once you decide to pony up for an overpriced luxury good whether a tool, bottle of wine or piece of audio equipment, you can count on confirmation bias to convince you that your money was well spent!

ear3 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 10, 2018, 06:07 AM »

@blaszcsj Yup!

Quote from: blaszcsj on March 08, 2018, 11:16 PM

@rst @ear3 can you use a standard ts55 kerf blade on the tsc? i have 4 blades for the corded and Im thinking about making the switch.

ScotF · « **Reply #32 on:** March 10, 2018, 10:26 AM »

Quote from: ear3 on March 10, 2018, 06:07 AM

@blaszcsj Yup!

Quote from: blaszcsj on March 08, 2018, 11:16 PM
@rst @ear3 can you use a standard ts55 kerf blade on the tsc? i have 4 blades for the corded and Im thinking about making the switch.

The TSC55 is just awesome. I have the 75 and rarely use it since the TSC55 is so darn good. Great power, ergonomics and not being tethered is great.

ProCarpenterRVA · « **Reply #33 on:** March 10, 2018, 02:35 PM »

I've been using makita stuff since the 70s when I had a PanAm pilot bring me back a sander and a drill from Tokyo. I was so excited to get a cordless drill!!! Pretty amazing stuff back then.

I have a few Makita 18 volt impact drivers and drills in use now which have been used heavily over the years. They have driven tens of thousands of screws in all sorts of applications. They look like heck and the batteries are tired now, not holding a good charge for long, but that's to be expected. I'm sure tempted to grab the new cordless miter saw this month just to get the two free batteries they're offering on top of the two which come with the saw!

I've had their belt sanders, miter saws, nail guns, compressor, all good tools that we abused and wore out.

So to answer your question, the Makita stuff is well made for the money. Tons of pros buy them.

Then there's Festool

Festool has a lot of niche products like the sanders, dust extractors, planer with variable contour heads, Conturo, Domino joiner, even Kapex miter saw, all of which have unique features that put them ahead of the competition. If you use them enough like I do, paying the "premium" isn't as much a problem as it would be if you were a hobbyist. I look at the "premium" partly as a function of their being German, and partly because they offer generally superior support and warranty. As a professional user, after you've spent hours and hours using less refined tools, the Festool choices become easier to make.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

pettyconstruction · « **Reply #34 on:** March 10, 2018, 10:07 PM »

Quote from: ScotF on March 10, 2018, 10:26 AM

Quote from: ear3 on March 10, 2018, 06:07 AM
@blaszcsj Yup!

Quote from: blaszcsj on March 08, 2018, 11:16 PM
@rst @ear3 can you use a standard ts55 kerf blade on the tsc? i have 4 blades for the corded and Im thinking about making the switch.

The TSC55 is just awesome. I have the 75 and rarely use it since the TSC55 is so darn good. Great power, ergonomics and not being tethered is great.

I have a TS-75 also ,and have not picked it up since I got the TSC-55.
Charlie

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Joe Felchlin · « **Reply #35 on:** April 24, 2018, 11:35 AM »

I love my Festool tools - But would think long and hard - About buying them today.
Notwithstanding the Festool issue - Regarding the hassle and considerable cost -
Of having to have sets of different proprietary batteries for each different tool -
There was a time - Back when I bought most of my Festool tools -
When Festool was noted for high priced - But high QA, premium quality tools.
But, the last few years Festool’s QA seems to have diminished -
As evidenced by an ever increasing number of posts - Across a wide variety of tools -
In the FOG’s Festool Tool Problems section.

Continueing to tell customers to return Festool tools within 30 days of purchase -
Or to send them in to be repaired to Festool Service -
Just isn’t good enough anymore.

Hence, the increasing comparisons to Makita and other brands -
“Good enough to do the job” - At 1/2 to 2/3 the cost.

SRSemenza · « **Reply #36 on:** April 24, 2018, 12:25 PM »

Quote from: Joe Felchlin on April 24, 2018, 11:35 AM

I love my Festool tools - But would think long and hard - About buying them today.
Notwithstanding the Festool issue - Regarding the hassle and considerable cost -
Of having to have sets of different proprietary batteries for each different tool -
There was a time - Back when I bought most of my Festool tools -
When Festool was noted for high priced - But high QA, premium quality tools.
But, the last few years Festool’s QA seems to have diminished -
As evidenced by an ever increasing number of posts - Across a wide variety of tools -
In the FOG’s Festool Tool Problems section.

Continueing to tell customers to return Festool tools within 30 days of purchase -
Or to send them in to be repaired to Festool Service -
Just isn’t good enough anymore.

Hence, the increasing comparisons to Makita and other brands -
“Good enough to do the job” - At 1/2 to 2/3 the cost.

That portion about the battery platforms is only partially accurate. You do not need a different battery for each different tool. CXS/TXS and the new cordless sanders each have their own battery type. But everything else uses the same battery ....... TSC55 saw, HKC55 saw, Carvex, T and C series drills, PDC drill, BHC Hammer drill, DWC Drywall driver, Syslite, Radio ..... all the same battery platform.

Seth

demographic · « **Reply #37 on:** April 24, 2018, 03:39 PM »

Festools circular saws and for me especually the HKC 55 are brilliant.
Their drills? Lot of money for something that makes a chuck spin.

Am interested in the Drywall cordless though.

leakyroof · « **Reply #38 on:** April 24, 2018, 04:50 PM »

Quote from: demographic on April 24, 2018, 03:39 PM

Festools circular saws and for me especually the HKC 55 are brilliant.
Their drills? Lot of money for something that makes a chuck spin.

Am interested in the Drywall cordless though.

I have the Cordless Drywall Gun along with several of their 'chuck spinning' drills

. Very sweet, very quick, and quiet...

My first Collated Screw Gun....

Joe Felchlin · « **Reply #39 on:** April 24, 2018, 08:50 PM »

Thank You Seth - Respectfully - For your reply.
I may have overstated the variety/number of batteries and chargers -
One needs to operate in the Festool environment.
But... Your detailed tool by tool information -
More than served to make my (and others) point.
We’re now waiting for the $$$$ Festool brand POWER STRIP -
To plug ‘em all into.

Rip Van Winkle · « **Reply #40 on:** April 24, 2018, 09:57 PM »

Quote from: SRSemenza on April 24, 2018, 12:25 PM

Quote from: Joe Felchlin on April 24, 2018, 11:35 AM
I love my Festool tools - But would think long and hard - About buying them today.
Notwithstanding the Festool issue - Regarding the hassle and considerable cost -
Of having to have sets of different proprietary batteries for each different tool -
There was a time - Back when I bought most of my Festool tools -
When Festool was noted for high priced - But high QA, premium quality tools.
But, the last few years Festool’s QA seems to have diminished -
As evidenced by an ever increasing number of posts - Across a wide variety of tools -
In the FOG’s Festool Tool Problems section.

Continueing to tell customers to return Festool tools within 30 days of purchase -
Or to send them in to be repaired to Festool Service -
Just isn’t good enough anymore.

Hence, the increasing comparisons to Makita and other brands -
“Good enough to do the job” - At 1/2 to 2/3 the cost.

That portion about the battery platforms is only partially accurate. You do not need a different battery for each different tool. CXS/TXS and the new cordless sanders each have their own battery type. But everything else uses the same battery ....... TSC55 saw, HKC55 saw, Carvex, T and C series drills, PDC drill, BHC Hammer drill, DWC Drywall driver, Syslite, Radio ..... all the same battery platform.

Seth

Festool probably has the widest number of incompatible tool batteries and chargers outside of Mafell and Fein. It’s actually one area were they don’t have a “system” aproach in place, despite this being one of the things Festool is supposedly known for.
Mafell has such a wide variety of batteries and chargers, because they don’t manufacture their own battery system. They rebrand or modify other companies cordless tools to make their cordless models, and just use the original manufacturers battery platform, which means tools might use AEG/Milwaukee, Bosch, or Metabo batteries, depending on what the tool is. Are there others as well? At least this makes purchasing extra batteries more convenient locally than finding Mafell batteries given the small number of sources for Mafell tools in the US.
Fein on the other hand has a habit of coming out with a new battery system for each generation of tools. Other than the most often seen cordless drill though, most Fein cordless tools were highly expensive fastening tools, made for industrial assembly for companies like BMW. So I can understand using a different battery system fir those tools, and actually keeping the older system when they switched to the newer lithium cordless system with the wider variety of tools. Fein also made an adapter for the chargers so the industrial tools could be charged with the regilar chargers.
Festool on the other hand never seemed to keep a “system” approach for their cordless tools. Back when the CDD and TDD cordless drills were being sold, both drills used different batteries, and different chargers, at least in North America. Then Festool came out with the newer C12 series drills which used different chargers and batteries from the CDD and TDD drills. Now Festool has added even more tools that don’t use compatible batteries and chargers.

Are there four different battery platforms currently in production or more at the moment?

Alanbach · « **Reply #41 on:** April 24, 2018, 10:52 PM »

So I just read this thread from the beginning and there is a lot of great information here but I was left with this discussion reminding me of tool buying conclusions that I made thirty years ago and how they still apply today. I should say that I own a lot of tools in Milwaukee’s 18V platform and three Festools (no cordless yet). The thought is this, platforms are great and I love having ten tools that run on one battery platform BUT no one tool manufacturer will ever make ALL the best tools that I need /want the most. Case in point, as much as I love my Milwaukee cordless platform I will probably buy a CSX one of the days because it fits a need that Milwaukee can’t fill. Someone else will always come out with something new that has some particular improvement that will make it compelling to you. So you can pick the best path for you today but cut yourself a break because the day will probably come when you stray from that path and it will be OK. (Or you just might stumble across a great deal on some great tool and voila, you just arrived in a new platform.)

Jmacpherson · « **Reply #42 on:** April 25, 2018, 05:56 AM »

Seth has a very valid point about Festool batteries. Yes the 10,8v drills and the 18v sanders are different but the sander batteries work on the current 18v chargers. However, the 18v/15v batteries and tools are backwards and forwards compatible.

Here is Peter Parfit's review of the BHC, go to 03:57 to see the part about batteries.

A lot of people will invest into a cordless system which has the most variety, which Makita and Milwaukee probably own in terms of variety. Dewalt seems to be coming up with some interesting items and even Ryobi too from a more affordable point of view.
The battery ah/capacity race seems to have been replaced by the cordless tool of convenience race - cordless pvc pipe cutters, rivet guns and coffee machines

That being said, how many people would buy a tool from another platform from a convenience or efficiency point of view?

SRSemenza · « **Reply #43 on:** April 25, 2018, 09:53 AM »

I'd just like to point out that some of this incompatibility can be applied to other brands as well.

I do not see any DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch compact drill/driver that uses the same batteries as the 18v or higher tools in those brands. So how is this different from Festool CXS and C/T series using different batteries?

A cursory glance through tools and info seems to also indicate that not all chargers are compatible, nor can all newer tools use older batteries in other brands either.

It would be great if all the tools used the same batteries within a brand, Festool or otherwise. But it is not just Festool that has some or a variety of battery incompatibility issues. Hmmmm, interesting.

Seth

RobBob · « **Reply #44 on:** April 25, 2018, 10:05 AM »

@SRSemenza
Festool has three current battery types that are not cross compatible.
1. 12v
2. 18v (for drills and saws)
3. 18v (for sanders)

I think it is the brand new sander battery platform that has everyone disappointed.

rst · « **Reply #45 on:** April 25, 2018, 10:27 AM »

All this boo hoo rah about the new sanders is ridiculous, if Festool would have hung the existing 18v batteries on the new sanders the complaints would have been about the weight.

SRSemenza · « **Reply #46 on:** April 25, 2018, 10:34 AM »

Quote from: RobBob on April 25, 2018, 10:05 AM

@SRSemenza
Festool has three current battery types that are not cross compatible.
1. 12v
2. 18v (for drills and saws)
3. 18v (for sanders)

I think it is the brand new sander battery platform that has everyone disappointed.

Yes, I know. And it would be great if the sanders were compatible, I would like that too if I get one. I guess the trade off would be a large rectangular battery on the sander. Maybe that matters, maybe it doesn't. I have not really used any cordless sander except for just checking out the Festool sanders at Connect.

My real point is that sometimes on this forum (and yes, this goes with the territory of it being a Festool forum) it appears that Festool is the only brand that has something wrong with a tool line or feature , etc. and that other brands do not have those problems. When in fact they do. In this case battery / tool / charger incompatibilities.

Seth

Untidy Shop · « **Reply #47 on:** April 25, 2018, 11:48 PM »

Makita has one Battery platform, Festool at least three. On some Makita tools the Battery due to size upsets the balance. ( Eg.new batt. Trim Router.)

There is your choice 'sports fans'. Do you want a full sized Festool Battery on one of the new Sanders or the given and appropriate balanced unit provided?

I have Festool and Makita, and others. As others have said here, it's not Festool vs Makita, 'it's the right tool for the right task'.

RKA · « **Reply #48 on:** April 26, 2018, 06:53 AM »

To be fair, Makita’s first generation Lion batteries and tools weren’t exactly compatible with what followed. They later added circuitry to prevent the tools from draining the batteries too much rendering them bricks that their chargers would not charger. As a result full compatibility with newer tools and batteries was limited without user modification. I was happy with the performance of their cordless platform, but the inability to upgrade piecemeal with the newer batteries and brushless tools left me no choice but to vote with my wallet. So Makita isn’t without fault.

I don’t feel much better about Festool having bought the last of their 14v platform before they standardized on 18v. So now I have three Festool battery platforms with limited cross compatibility between batteries, tools and chargers.

nvalinski · « **Reply #49 on:** April 26, 2018, 08:05 AM »

Quote from: Untidy Shop on April 25, 2018, 11:48 PM

Makita has one Battery platform, Festool at least three. ( Eg.new batt. Trim Router.)

I mean, they've got a 12V line which is somewhat comparable to what the TXS/CXS do without being compatible with the 18V line, no?

Peter_C · « **Reply #50 on:** April 26, 2018, 01:03 PM »

I will stand up for Festool and say great job on creating a battery for the tool, not the tool for the battery. Plus Festool's costs for their batteries is very reasonable.

I WANT two different voltage battery systems. Although I don't own Festool cordless, I do own Milwaukee M12 12 volts tools and they are perfect for so many jobs. I don't need an 18 volt caulking gun, but the 12 volt version works awesome and is light weight. My go to 1/4" impact gun is my M12, and I own 3, 1/4", 18 volt impact guns in both Milwaukee and Makita.

Also no one size of battery is good enough. I prefer a 2.0Ah battery for impact drivers and other tools vs a 5.0Ah. 9.0Ah batteries are great for some things, but heavy as heck.

Festool releases Bluetooth batteries for connection to their dust collectors...people complain. Makita goes the other route and releases tools that are Bluetooth and keep their batteries...people complain. Point being you can't make everyone happy. They both have their advantages.

Personally I feel no one tool brand, nor line, can do it all, and having multiples fits the trades. In other words I have no brand loyalty.

rst · « **Reply #51 on:** April 26, 2018, 01:35 PM »

I'm with Peter C, I buy and try whatever I think will work best for my specific purposes. I've been doing commercial/industrial glazing, locksmithing, plastic fabrication, and wood butchering for myself for 38 years. Over the years I've had B&D, Freud, 9 & 14V Makitas, and presently have 12 & 18V Milwaukees, 18V Feins, and now 10.8 and 18V Festools cordless tools. At present I've weaned myself down to Milwaukee, Fein and Festool. That being said Makita's 18V chopsaw really had me considering selling my 12" Makita slider. Bought Milwaukee's 7 1/4" 18V instead for a traveler. Someday when Festool sorts out their slider, I may go that route for in the shop.

Untidy Shop · « **Reply #52 on:** April 26, 2018, 07:11 PM »

Quote from: nvalinski on April 26, 2018, 08:05 AM

Quote from: Untidy Shop on April 25, 2018, 11:48 PM
Makita has one Battery platform, Festool at least three. ( Eg.new batt. Trim Router.)

I mean, they've got a 12V line which is somewhat comparable to what the TXS/CXS do without being compatible with the 18V line, no?

Yes @nvalinski You are correct.

I was thinking only of their 18V which includes Sanders, Drills and Routers. However my real point is that this should not be a debate of Festool vs Makita as each of their tools offers advantages and disadvantages to the potential customer.

leakyroof · « **Reply #53 on:** April 26, 2018, 07:39 PM »

Quote from: Untidy Shop on April 26, 2018, 07:11 PM

Quote from: nvalinski on April 26, 2018, 08:05 AM
Quote from: Untidy Shop on April 25, 2018, 11:48 PM
Makita has one Battery platform, Festool at least three. ( Eg.new batt. Trim Router.)

I mean, they've got a 12V line which is somewhat comparable to what the TXS/CXS do without being compatible with the 18V line, no?

Yes @nvalinski You are correct.

I was thinking only of their 18V which includes Sanders, Drills and Routers. However my real point is that this should not be a debate of Festool vs Makita as each of their tools offers advantages and disadvantages to the potential customer.

. I thought there was a separate 18v battery line that doesn’t fit the higher draw tools since it was a 1.5Ah battery size with the Makita Compact Tool sub section?

nvalinski · « **Reply #54 on:** April 27, 2018, 08:21 AM »

Quote from: leakyroof on April 26, 2018, 07:39 PM

I thought there was a separate 18v battery line that doesn’t fit the higher draw tools since it was a 1.5Ah battery size with the Makita Compact Tool sub section?

The new "subcompact" 18V line still shares the same 18V batteries, just on a 12V form factor of tool. I don't see any reason why the 1.5Ah batteries wouldn't fit a larger tool, just wouldn't run as long.

Untidy Shop · « **Reply #55 on:** April 27, 2018, 09:11 AM »

Quote from: nvalinski on April 27, 2018, 08:21 AM

Quote from: leakyroof on April 26, 2018, 07:39 PM
I thought there was a separate 18v battery line that doesn’t fit the higher draw tools since it was a 1.5Ah battery size with the Makita Compact Tool sub section?

The new "subcompact" 18V line still shares the same 18V batteries, just on a 12V form factor of tool. I don't see any reason why the 1.5Ah batteries wouldn't fit a larger tool, just wouldn't run as long.

leakyroof · « **Reply #56 on:** April 27, 2018, 09:32 AM »

Quote from: nvalinski on April 27, 2018, 08:21 AM

Quote from: leakyroof on April 26, 2018, 07:39 PM
I thought there was a separate 18v battery line that doesn’t fit the higher draw tools since it was a 1.5Ah battery size with the Makita Compact Tool sub section?

The new "subcompact" 18V line still shares the same 18V batteries, just on a 12V form factor of tool. I don't see any reason why the 1.5Ah batteries wouldn't fit a larger tool, just wouldn't run as long.

. Not the newest subcompact, the previous one. I thought there was a plastic shroud or tab that prevents the 1.5Ah batteries from fitting the tools that use the 3.0 and larger batteries.
If I remember right, my Compact 1.5s from my 1/4” QC 18v impact will not fit my Cordless Saw, my 1/2” impact or my 18v Blower even though they are all 18 volt batteries .
It doesn’t bother me a bit since the Saw alone needs 3.0 or 5.0Ah for long run times..

nvalinski · « **Reply #57 on:** April 27, 2018, 10:00 AM »

Was there actually a compact line, or just the previous pre-LXT batteries? I don't know much about the previous generation, but I think it was something to do with the LXT line being able to communicate with the battery, and some tab that made old batteries not forward compatible but new batteries backwards compatible (regardless of size). Could be totally wrong though.

Peter_C · « **Reply #58 on:** April 27, 2018, 10:21 AM »

Quote from: leakyroof on April 26, 2018, 07:39 PM

I thought there was a separate 18v battery line that doesn’t fit the higher draw tools since it was a 1.5Ah battery size with the Makita Compact Tool sub section?

Makita calls their newer circa 2012 batteries "STAR Protection Computer Controls" and some of their older tools can not be used with newer high amp hour Star protected batteries. This is typically the older brushed tools that are not STAR rated. IE: I have an older Makita grinder that will accept the 3.0Ah batteries (Which are STAR rated) but will not accept the 4.0Ah packs nor the 5.0Ah battery packs.

My guess is that they worry more about over discharging a high amp battery back for warranty and safety issues.

leakyroof · « **Reply #59 on:** April 27, 2018, 06:25 PM »

Quote from: Peter_C on April 27, 2018, 10:21 AM

Quote from: leakyroof on April 26, 2018, 07:39 PM
I thought there was a separate 18v battery line that doesn’t fit the higher draw tools since it was a 1.5Ah battery size with the Makita Compact Tool sub section?
Makita calls their newer circa 2012 batteries "STAR Protection Computer Controls" and some of their older tools can not be used with newer high amp hour Star protected batteries. This is typically the older brushed tools that are not STAR rated. IE: I have an older Makita grinder that will accept the 3.0Ah batteries (Which are STAR rated) but will not accept the 4.0Ah packs nor the 5.0Ah battery packs.

My guess is that they worry more about over discharging a high amp battery back for warranty and safety issues.

. I bet you’re right. My 18volt impact is probably older than I realize, definitely older than my other Makita 18v tools.