Author Topic: Dovetail Jigs - Which one?? (Read 15180 times)

PaulMarcel · « **Reply #30 on:** September 11, 2023, 10:59 PM »

I have the Leigh (or is it Lee now?) D4R. It sits unused as I usually always cut them by hand (not that I'm good at that, but I do).

However, I bought a Y-peeler and finally got fed up with my "builder cabinets" because it wouldn't fit in the comically awkwardly sized drawer. Gutted the boxes, installed new rail/stiles (the island had 6" wide stiles like why...), installed full-extension slides wherever there was a drawer or I wanted a sliding tray drawer.

...but I'm not gonna hand-cut 38 drawers/trays for my kitchen.

So I've been tinkering with the D4R to re-learn it. Works well. It's a shame it's awkward to use multiple routers due to concentricity issues with the guide bushings (with a single router, the concentricity issue cancels out). So I couldn't use the OF-2200 has a second routers due to its LAUGHABLE guide-bushing insert. The MFK-700 has a screw-in base, but is visibly not concentric. The OF-1400's mount with Leigh/Lee's bushing is dead perfect. (Not sure why 'dead' and 'perfect' became an adage together, but here we are)

There's a thread on FOG about (the OF-2200 guide-bushing base and the Leigh/Lee jig). I like his solution fixing a router adapter to the insert. Sadly, buying JUST the adapter seems impossible without yet-another set of bushings making it $30 if you want the brass one. But it fixes a billion-dollar router's shortcomings so

Moral? don't use a Y-peeler

krudawg · « **Reply #31 on:** September 15, 2023, 11:51 AM »

Hey Paul, haven't seen you around in a while. With regard to the OF 1400 router, is the Leigh supplied e7 bushing going to give me good results with the D4 Pro jig. We all paid a lot of money for the jig and mine mostly sits on a shelf in my shop. I'd really like to start using it again but I want to make sure I'm using the best router/bushing combination. The New Brit Workshop recommends using the OF 1010 on the D4 Pro because that is where he gets the best results.

rst · « **Reply #32 on:** September 15, 2023, 01:13 PM »

I bought a pair of PC 690 routers before I discovered Festool. One of them is dedicated to my Leigh jig

jeffinsgf · « **Reply #33 on:** September 15, 2023, 04:16 PM »

Paul,

Not to discourage you from figuring out the Leigh, but have you considered just getting a traditional, old-fashioned half-blind dovetail jig to knock out your kitchen project? They're just as strong as anything you can do with a Leigh and they're dead simple to set up and execute. Yes, they're predictable looking and factory looking. Close the drawer and you won't know.

You can generally find used Porter-Cable Omni-Jigs on Facebook and CraigsList for short money. I found a 24" German-made Elu on FBM last year for $35.

PaulMarcel · « **Reply #34 on:** September 16, 2023, 07:01 PM »

Oh, the Leigh isn't super difficult to figure out. I just want to know what all the settings are on it, which I did awhile ago. Then comes tinkering. I had hoped to use two routers to keep from switching bits, but as they say, unless the bushing is exactly concentric, you'll get errors. The 700 was obviously way off concentric. The 1400 looked pretty much perfect. The 2200 has a base for the bushings, but they move in use and aren't concentric: I'm convinced that base was included in the kit as a marketing bullet point as it is literally non-functional.

And these will look like mass-produced dovetail drawers assuming they were built with Beech. Not concerned about that.

Times like this, I wish Lee Valley produced hand-cut dovetail tape... whoa, can't find a link to it anymore. It was an April Fools' product of theirs: just apply the tape for the look of dovetails

Mini Me · « **Reply #35 on:** September 16, 2023, 09:27 PM »

Quote from: jeffinsgf on September 15, 2023, 04:16 PM

Yes, they're predictable looking and factory looking. Close the drawer and you won't know.

Hand cut DT's carefully measured and laid out are also predictable and boring where in days gone by nothing was measured and it was all done by eye which is what Frank Klausz does. I know Derek and others disagree with that approach but it is traditional to do it that way because the DT was used solely for its mechanical properties and not to look pretty.

derekcohen · « **Reply #36 on:** September 17, 2023, 05:23 AM »

Quote from: DynaGlide on September 11, 2023, 08:10 AM

Quote from: derekcohen on June 10, 2023, 09:50 PM

Jordan, to be blunt, ALL dovetail jigs produce dovetails that look terrible. Bland, mechanical and really, really scream out “made by machine”. Yet dovetails are prized joinery .., because they are associated with handwork and craftsmanship. So learn to make them by hand. Cheaper too.

Regards from Perth

Derek

@derekcohen Derek I disagree here. What is cheaper about all the niche hand tools I've bought from Lie Nielsen and Veritas and my new obsession with nice hand tools.

It all started with a simple Veritas LAJ. Then I had to build a bench (obviously). And I blacked out afterwards and here we are. Cheaper my ass.

Matt

Matt, the dovetails on your bench look very nice. However, they are dovetails on the bench, and this is different (= wider) from dovetails on a drawer (= narrower). Here are the dovetails on my bench ... cut by hand ...

At the end of the day, it is what turns you on. Only another woodworker can tell the difference. No one else cares.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Peter Halle · « **Reply #37 on:** September 17, 2023, 08:19 AM »

@derekcohen , absolutely STUNNING workbench!

Peter

Cheese · « **Reply #38 on:** September 17, 2023, 08:48 AM »

Quote from: derekcohen on September 17, 2023, 05:23 AM

At the end of the day, it is what turns you on. Only another woodworker can tell the difference. No one else cares.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Now that's a thing of beauty...

...is there any back draft on the dovetails or is everything straight?

derekcohen · « **Reply #39 on:** September 17, 2023, 11:25 AM »

Cheese, I do not know what you mean by "backdraft". If you mean any complications, then the answer is "no". All has been tight and solid since I built this bench 11 years ago. I do a great deal of hand tool work, and it gets a constant work out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Crazyraceguy · « **Reply #40 on:** September 17, 2023, 05:38 PM »

Quote from: Mini Me on September 16, 2023, 09:27 PM

Quote from: jeffinsgf on September 15, 2023, 04:16 PM
Yes, they're predictable looking and factory looking. Close the drawer and you won't know.

Hand cut DT's carefully measured and laid out are also predictable and boring where in days gone by nothing was measured and it was all done by eye which is what Frank Klausz does. I know Derek and others disagree with that approach but it is traditional to do it that way because the DT was used solely for its mechanical properties and not to look pretty.

I think the real difference between the half-blinds done by the typical jig is that the pins and tails are exactly the same. For me, that's the offensive part.
I don't think the pins need to be as small as some people cut them, it's the wider tails (the difference between them) doe it for me. They can still be totally symmetrical, yet not boring.

@derekcohen I think the reference to "backdraft" would be "clearance" as in the walls might be cut a bit wider at the bottom and still tight up on the surface, where you can see them.

derekcohen · « **Reply #41 on:** September 17, 2023, 08:02 PM »

Quote from: Mini Me on September 16, 2023, 09:27 PM

Quote from: jeffinsgf on September 15, 2023, 04:16 PM
Yes, they're predictable looking and factory looking. Close the drawer and you won't know.

Hand cut DT's carefully measured and laid out are also predictable and boring where in days gone by nothing was measured and it was all done by eye which is what Frank Klausz does. I know Derek and others disagree with that approach but it is traditional to do it that way because the DT was used solely for its mechanical properties and not to look pretty.

Chris, I think that we can agree that styles change in furniture. The dovetail in drawers was probably humble and used purely for its mechanical properties, but over time has become a symbol of handmade excellence. It was so two hundred years ago on high end furniture. It has become even more so today. Nevertheless, it is still a stylised component, and each person will prefer it a different way. FK’s examples were one way, held in high esteem more due to his personality than their aesthetics. Too coarse for my tastes. Compare his dovetails with those of Jim Krenov.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Cheese · « **Reply #42 on:** September 18, 2023, 10:01 AM »

Quote from: derekcohen on September 17, 2023, 11:25 AM

Cheese, I do not know what you mean by "backdraft". If you mean any complications, then the answer is "no". All has been tight and solid since I built this bench 11 years ago. I do a great deal of hand tool work, and it gets a constant work out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, I was just wondering if you drafted the walls for additional clearance for ease in fitting the dovetails. I've done that sort of thing when fitting new treads to an old staircase. Even a 1/2º draft will really help and it will not be seen from the top.

Kind of like this.

derekcohen · « **Reply #43 on:** September 18, 2023, 10:13 AM »

Cheese, I know what you mean. I use the term "undercut". But, no, I did not do that here.

Regards from Perth

Derek

ChuckS · « **Reply #44 on:** September 18, 2023, 10:48 AM »

Some dovetailers, including me, chisel a light chamfer on the inside edges to ease the assembly:

krudawg · « **Reply #45 on:** September 18, 2023, 03:18 PM »

Quote from: PaulMarcel on September 11, 2023, 10:59 PM

I have the Leigh (or is it Lee now?) D4R. It sits unused as I usually always cut them by hand (not that I'm good at that, but I do).

However, I bought a Y-peeler and finally got fed up with my "builder cabinets" because it wouldn't fit in the comically awkwardly sized drawer. Gutted the boxes, installed new rail/stiles (the island had 6" wide stiles like why...), installed full-extension slides wherever there was a drawer or I wanted a sliding tray drawer.

...but I'm not gonna hand-cut 38 drawers/trays for my kitchen.

So I've been tinkering with the D4R to re-learn it. Works well. It's a shame it's awkward to use multiple routers due to concentricity issues with the guide bushings (with a single router, the concentricity issue cancels out). So I couldn't use the OF-2200 has a second routers due to its LAUGHABLE guide-bushing insert. The MFK-700 has a screw-in base, but is visibly not concentric. The OF-1400's mount with Leigh/Lee's bushing is dead perfect. (Not sure why 'dead' and 'perfect' became an adage together, but here we are)

There's a thread on FOG about (the OF-2200 guide-bushing base and the Leigh/Lee jig). I like his solution fixing a router adapter to the insert. Sadly, buying JUST the adapter seems impossible without yet-another set of bushings making it $30 if you want the brass one. But it fixes a billion-dollar router's shortcomings so

Moral? don't use a Y-peeler

For those who need a review of the Leigh D4 Pro Jig, I highly recommend watching this 7 part series on youtube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDBusvahyxA&t=5s
This is an absolute reference guide on the Leigh Jig. I've never seen a YouTube video that is so helpful

Author Topic: Dovetail Jigs - Which one?? (Read 15180 times)

PaulMarcel

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

krudawg

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

rst

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

jeffinsgf

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

PaulMarcel

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

Mini Me

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

derekcohen

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

Peter Halle

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

Cheese

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

derekcohen

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

Crazyraceguy

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

derekcohen

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

Cheese

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

derekcohen

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

ChuckS

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??

krudawg

Re: Dovetail Jigs - Which one??