Author Topic: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)  (Read 2332 times)

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Offline afish

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WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« on: August 23, 2022, 04:25 PM »
  Before I start mortising in the pulls on the upper cabinets I wanted to get some opinions on which way the pulls (on the uppers the lowers are done already) look best horz. or vertical or if you think the pulls look funky vertical on the uppers with the bottoms horizontal.  The issue I have with the horz. placement on the uppers is the one cabinet next to the fridge the handle hits the fridge panel and since the pulls are squarish with some pretty sharp corners the handle will damage the panel in short order so I will need to limit the door but if I run the pulls vertical the handle misses the panel so its not an issue and would allow the door to open slightly more. 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 05:07 PM by afish »

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Online ChuckS

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2022, 04:31 PM »
I vote for horizontal, and will find a solution to deal with the fridge issue.

Offline afish

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2022, 04:34 PM »
Thanks, thats the way im leaning as well.  Blum makes a restrictor clip I just need to locate the right one.

Online 4nthony

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2022, 04:34 PM »
I like the look of the horizontal pulls.

With them being vertical, there are interruptions in all of the flatness, if that makes sense.

Are the smaller cabinets above the sink hinged at the top or on the sides?
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Offline afish

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2022, 04:53 PM »
The small cabs are hinged to the side.  They are pretty high already so if I did flip up I would be the only one that could reach them to close them.  They wont get used much and are intended for items that only get used a couple times per year not everyday type stuff.  The old way was just a valance which just collected dust on top. That was a no go for me.  Im not a fan of cabinets that dont run all the way to the ceiling for that reason, I like the ease of installing said cabinets but not the functionality and or grease/dust collection aspect.

I will center the pulls on them however since there is 3 doors it means if I offset them to the pull side 2 are close together and the 3rd is far away and looks funky.  They are small doors so they still open easily even being centered. Just incase thats why you wondering.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 05:00 PM by afish »

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2022, 05:33 PM »
I think that kind of pull should be vertical on swinging doors and horizontal on sliding drawers.

When horizontal on a swinging door, don’t you fingers rotate off the grip?

Offline rvieceli

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2022, 05:48 PM »
I agree with Michael on this. Vertical on swinging uppers with horizontal on drawers and slide outs.

Ron

Online ChuckS

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2022, 05:58 PM »
What's the criterion again please?

"...on which way the pulls (on the uppers the lowers are done already) look best horz. or vertical (bold mine)"

Offline squall_line

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2022, 05:59 PM »
I prefer the look of the vertical on the swinging doors, personally.  The horizontal handles make the upper cabinets seem deeper than they are and seem to imply with the shorter uppers that they either pull out or swing up.  The vertical handles blend in and hide in the seams better, just like the horizontal drawer pulls tuck in the seams between the drawers and tuck in under the countertop once it's installed.

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2022, 06:01 PM »
I agree with Michael on this. Vertical on swinging uppers with horizontal on drawers and slide outs.

Ron

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Offline Crazyraceguy

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2022, 06:17 PM »
Tab type pulls always cause controversy. With the more common "wire" loop type pulls it is generally done as mentioned buy some of the others. Horizontal on drawers and vertical on side-hinged doors. Once or twice a year, we will get a job with wire pulls that specifies that they are all horizontal. It sometimes causes problems because it's just not "normal", someone will drill at least one door wrong.
Tab pulls are almost always mounted horizontally.
I like the horizontal mount in the pics you posted, except for the 3 doors above the window. The pulls are centered, which gives no indication as to how they open? I assume this is why 4nthony asked the question. "Are they hinged at the top"? They may indeed open easily from there, but it is not intuitive. Blum makes some really cool hardware for that, but in that high of a location, they would be quite a pian to deal with.
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2022, 06:35 PM »
Vertical and horizontal.

Peter

Offline afish

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2022, 07:13 PM »
Thanks everyone. (for confirming Im not completely crazy) Horz. on all ended up winning in the end.  That was how I originally intended. Actually, originally I was planning on continuous pulls but supply chain issues ended up overcomplicating that.  So I ended up with the tab pulls I knew the corner cabinet by the fridge was going to give me issues with the tabs but would have been no issue with the countinous pulls however I already had everything built before finding out I couldnt get them.  So, in an effort to simplify that problem I decided to just try and see what they looked like vertical and was kind of shocked I didnt dislike it as much as I thought I would. I was like am I crazy or do they not look that bad vertical? Thats why I decided to poll you guys. I guess there isnt one size fits all and It really is just kind of personal preference. Those over the sink doors open easily even with the pulls centered and it "looks" waaaay better.  I tried it both ways and it was a total eye sore the other way.  if it was 4 doors and I could have grouped the pulls 2 and 2 it would have been fine but it was throwing everything off. I already have them mortised in or I would take another pic to show but it was bad, real bad.  The doors are small enough it really doesnt matter where you grab.  As often as they will be used its even less of an issue and no company will be opening them so its a non issue and just went with looks and symmetry.   
« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 10:06 PM by afish »

Offline Stan Tillinghast

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2022, 09:33 PM »
Well afish has made his decision. I would have said that ergonomically vertical pulls are more natural for swinging doors; try having your hand vertical vs. horizontal and mimic opening a door. Whereas opening a drawer, one's hand is more naturally palm down in that case.
So for appearance, afish has something more pleasing to him; but for function, I believe the old-fashioned method has proven itself by use.
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Offline afish

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2022, 10:14 PM »
I was surprised there was so many votes for the vertical. Its getting close now but some back ordered stuff is holding me up. its getting close but this supply chain bs really sucks. I have been waiting on that middle drawer for a month.

Offline luvmytoolz

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2022, 10:54 PM »
+1 for vertical for me too for the overheads, I think apart from the aesthetics, it's a more natural hand motion to open them.

Offline squall_line

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2022, 10:59 PM »
I live in a Mid-century home with loop pulls that are all mounted on a 45-degree angle.  In. Every. Room.  [blink]

Someone apparently didn't want to have to decide between H and V.   [big grin]

Offline RJNeal

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2022, 11:52 PM »
My vote is vertical on top and horizontal on the bottom
Good luck.
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Offline mino

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2022, 06:28 AM »
On top cabinets the vertical pull is more ergonomic - it is easier to grab it by the hand blindly as it aligns with the natural position of the hand when raised.

On the bottom it is to the contrary. There it is easier to grab a horizontal handle for same reasons.

So, ergonomics - top vertical, bottom horizontal.


If/When you move to design for look/atmosphere above usability, then it is more artistry and depends on the look you want. There is no better/worse boundary there at that point. Just feelings.

EDIT:
In your case you actually have three scenarios:

"Ceiling" cabinets above the window => horizontal is better there as it makes it easier to reach
Tops - vertical per above
Bottoms - horizontal again, per above
« Last Edit: August 24, 2022, 06:33 AM by mino »
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Offline derekcohen

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2022, 08:35 AM »
The combination of horizontal and vertical makes for a poor match, a miss-mash. Keep them all the same, all vertical or all horizontal. I think horizontal blends in better and disappears, but vertical could do the same. The direction is personal.

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Online ChuckS

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2022, 08:56 AM »
The combination of horizontal and vertical makes for a poor match, a miss-mash. Keep them all the same, all vertical or all horizontal. Snip.

Regards from Perth

Derek

+1.

Can't agree more.

Online Cheese

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2022, 10:17 AM »
Late to the party but this photo helps the visualization process.
Vertical = swing
Horizontal = slide


Offline waho6o9

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2022, 10:22 AM »
V & H

Offline Packard

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2022, 10:25 AM »
If you are going to install horizontal pulls, then make sure it is a design that will not hook onto garments when you are walking by.  The pulls on the black cabinets would be fine.

I have this style on a bathroom vanity and it is constantly hooking on my garments when I walk by.


Online ChuckS

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2022, 10:37 AM »
Equally, we can find kitchen designs that feature either H only or V only (or mix):



Ultimately, the owner (or maker) or the better-half has to decide if it's function (over form), aesthetics or something else.

Given the appliance handles seen in the photos that afish shares, I'd still prefer a horizontal orientation for the door and drawer pulls.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2022, 10:43 AM by ChuckS »

Offline afish

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2022, 11:10 AM »
I agree with the vertical on doors and horz. on drawers with most hardware but the hardware itself needs to be taken into account as well.  the tabs are typically "almost" always horizontal.  Some other hardware looks good both ways like cheese posted.  The only reason it occurred to me to try them vertical was the issue on the one cabinet.  I didnt expect to like it all but once up I was a little surprised I didnt hate it.  That got me to question my design skills which is probably my weak point anyway.  Had the lowers had a mix of more doors but with such a strong horz. presence below the all vertical on the uppers just looked to far out of place to me.  Ergonomically I notice zero difference between V&H on the doors. So, thats of no consequence to me. I am partial to minimal hardware for several reasons but not a fan of the tip on style doors since I have kids that cant seem to grasp the concept of pushing the door that last inch so I end up with cabinet doors that are all open slightly...

Either way its a done deal now they are mostly installed.  Im waiting on my opening restrictor before doing the door by the fridge incase I need to possibly shorten the tab a little.  I figure I can get away with shortening it a bit without it looking odd since its over by itself.  Now if I could get my drawer hardware and an undamaged dishwasher I would be in good shape.  Waiting on the 3rd attempt on the dishwasher to show up without any shipping damage  [mad]

 

Offline tsmi243

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2022, 11:36 AM »
Horizontal doesn't bother me on swing doors, as long as the pull is on the corner. 

If it's centered, I'd expect it to either pull out like a drawer, or lift up like a hatch.

Good lookin kitchen!

Offline Packard

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2022, 11:55 AM »
Not to forget knobs and leather pulls.

Offline Spandex

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2022, 01:46 PM »
Kitchen cabinet doors are light enough that ergonomics don’t really matter as much as they might in other situations. So I would go with aesthetics and put them all horizontal.

Offline Packard

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2022, 03:33 PM »
Kitchen cabinet doors are light enough that ergonomics don’t really matter as much as they might in other situations. So I would go with aesthetics and put them all horizontal.

I disagree. 

I always use the cabinet pull to open the cabinet door.  But on my pantry cabinet, the pull is located lower than expected.  So while I use the pull to open the cabinet, I invariably simply palm the door closed at a suitable height.  The net result is that the door gets dirty at that spot.  Over the years the repeated cleaning of that spot has resulted in wear on the finish. 

Ergonomics does matter.

Offline Spandex

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2022, 04:58 PM »
That’s a very specific example that doesn’t apply to the OPs question though. For the doors he’s talking about, and the two handle positions he’s considering, the ergonomic differences are small enough not to be an issue.

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Offline afish

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2022, 05:11 PM »
I get the ergo. point but I do agree with spandex the doors in question are not large doors and are light, easy to open.  Plus the handle would be pretty much in the same location just oriented differently.  Having a handle in a bad spot vs. a good spot is a different story ergonomically.  The whole H vs. V orientation being more ergonomic is somewhat subjective too similar to the Kapex vs. dewalt miter saw handle. A vertical handle like on the Kapex is not my fav.  I much prefer the horz. style handle on the Dewalt.  Not sure if that influenced my decision but I have opened and closed these doors many times already and I highly doubt the vertical handle would make any difference to me at least from an ergonomic standpoint.   

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2022, 05:38 PM »
Thanks, thats the way im leaning as well.  Blum makes a restrictor clip I just need to locate the right one.

Restrictor clips, I'm assuming from the style of cabinets you have clip top hinges.

70T3553.

I find to install them easily, remove the hinge completely.



Tom




Offline Packard

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2022, 05:42 PM »
For opening a cabinet door, horizontal or vertical seems of little concern. 

But for closing the door, I think the vertical position encourages using the handle rather than just palming the door shut.  The horizontal position does not do the same (for me).

Offline afish

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2022, 06:07 PM »
Thanks, thats the way im leaning as well.  Blum makes a restrictor clip I just need to locate the right one.

Restrictor clips, I'm assuming from the style of cabinets you have clip top hinges.

70T3553.

I find to install them easily, remove the hinge completely.

(Attachment Link)

Tom
Yes cliptop blumotion I ordered some off amazon should be here Thur. 

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 1843
Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2022, 07:59 PM »
I live in a Mid-century home with loop pulls that are all mounted on a 45-degree angle.  In. Every. Room.  [blink]

Someone apparently didn't want to have to decide between H and V.   [big grin]

I have seen that done once. Freaked me right out. Who would do that? and why?
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Offline woodferret

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2022, 08:10 PM »
Very late, but I would have chosen a slightly different (vertical, but maybe shorter in the same family) pull for the swing doors or done tip-on.

Offline Euclid

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2022, 05:07 AM »
If you want to keep them all horizontal for reasons of uniformity, I see four options - of varying desirability - for the troublesome door: fit a restrictor to limit the door opening; put the hinges on the other side so that it opens to the left; make a cut-down (shorter) handle for that one door (which could look a little odd, or could look downright annoying, YMMV); fit a hidden press-to-open catch on that one, omit the handle altogether and leave it appearing to be not-a-cupboard...  So... a compromise of some sort is inevitable!

In the all-horizontal format, it's only the units above the window that my mind might 'expect' to hinge upwards.

Not for this kitchen, but I think the 45-degree approach can work in the right setting - but only if the pulls are small, semi-circular and set in the corners of the doors.

Offline afish

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Re: WHICH WAY (opinion needed)
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2022, 03:41 PM »
Well the restrictor plates were not enough.  "took off the restrictor plate to give the red dragon a little more juice, but lets keep that on the down low. not exactly street legal" Thats a movie quote, can anyone name the movie? 

Anyways looks like Im going to try some type of flap stay.  Anyone have a nice one preferably stainless they can recommend most of the ones I see are pretty cheap looking. Dont need or want any pneumatic ones.