Author Topic: The Domino in residential construction.  (Read 6137 times)

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Offline -woodsman-

  • Posts: 75
The Domino in residential construction.
« on: August 04, 2010, 08:28 PM »
Walkthrough of pre assembled casing with domino.

A year ago I asked my employer "if I bought it would you replace the dominos as consumable items" he said yes and I picked one up that night.  the next day he seamed a little shocked and not very thrilled about the new expense.  I read Rick Christopherson's suplemantal manual, wich is wonderful, and took some good natured ribbings about being a fesgeek.  A co worker coined the fraise domin-no-no.    

So hear we are a year later on a job with four or five different casing types, one as large as 6 1/2" wide, on  the two floors we are working on and my boss has purchased 2 dominos for the company.

 The general contractor requested a mock up of how we assemble the door casing on there site.  This gave me the opportunity to document it.

One template for each casing, L and R mitre on either side, center lines for dominos, suport of the back and a rabbited stop for lining up the short points of the mitres.  Lining up of the short points is critical because if its off than the span between the casing legs is affected.  This will inlarg or decrese the reviel between the casing legs and the jamb legs.

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This was the last one I made, each one was slightly better than the last.  The focus here is to actually domino the mortices in their locations on the template BEFORE YOU ADD THE SUPPORTS AND STOP.  If you need (as I did) to go back and make one more casing assembly you can see the Dimino sizes and hights.  Wrighting these down on the back of the template in sharpe is a good idea as well.  The template Im using for the mock up dos not have the mortices cut.  Because of this I had to test the hight of the 8mm Domino.

The backside of the template and the left leg.

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The lemplate is to the left.  The stop on its mitre lines up the short points and the suports help to steady the two peices.

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Transfer your lines and mortice accordingly.  The inner Domino is 6 mm x 40 mm,  the outer is 8 mm x 40 mm.  This is where I was unclear on the hight setting.  If I had written them down it would have saved some time.

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Assemble with the clam clamps and use a vice grip clamp to align the thin inner profile.  [On Edit The Clam Clamps can be found here http://www.miterclamp.com/  I have used these clamps for almost six years and they are the best mitre clamps in the world hands down.] I recently handled the Japan wood worker cam clamps and seems to be almost exactly the same in every way.  [On Edit  The body of the clamp and the pins are made of steel not stainless.  The pins that engage the wood are shorter but not by much, maby 1 mm.  These are the only differences I can see in these two tools.  Functionally they look the same.  I have not used this clamp just inspected one.] Not as pretty but half the price.  [On Edit For more info on the clam clamps check out Brice's review on his website, http://www.burrellcustomcarpentry.com/subpage88.html

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After the glue has set a 10 mm x 50 mm lock Domino is used in the corner.  This is very tricky!  Using the incremental lines of the window center the stock and slowly plunge.  This is done at full depth 28 mm.  [On Edit  The lock Domino is trimmed off flush]

While assembled the dry corner can not pull apart with the lock domino in place.

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Two Dominos are necessary to make this a production style set up.  I believe that these are the strongest casing mitres that the company has ever produced.


















« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 06:27 PM by -woodsman- »

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Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: The Domino in residential construction.
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2010, 08:54 PM »
Yep, you can come install the trim throughout my house anytime.  :)
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline -woodsman-

  • Posts: 75
Re: The Domino in residential construction.
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2010, 09:09 PM »
The guy working on the stairs said it was the same as a lemelo. [laughing]

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7371
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: The Domino in residential construction.
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2010, 10:59 PM »
Very nice.  The only thing I'd do differently is use all the same size tenons to save a lot of hassle.

BTW, I hate to see the knock off of the Clam Clamps.  The Guy (Jim Chestnut) making the Clam Clamps makes a first rate product out of the finest materials and they're made right here in the USA.  Maybe you could remove the name of the source of the knock offs from your post. 
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: The Domino in residential construction.
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2010, 11:12 PM »
Are you serious. Why take off the generic version. That is not a stolen idea. The original clam clamps came out in 1990(possibly earlier) and if he patented them the patent would have run its course anyway.

I admire your loyalty, but right now a guy that can't pay the 75.00 may be able to pay the 40.00. I am also for buying American made stuff and if this was a buy American forum maybe it would make sense, seeing how none of us here are buying or praising American tools on this particular forum it does not make much sense.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 11:17 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: The Domino in residential construction.
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2010, 12:26 AM »

After the glue has set a 10 mm x 50 mm lock Domino is used in the corner.  This is very tricky!  Using the incremental lines of the window center the stock and slowly plunge.  This is done at full depth 28 mm.

While assembled the dry corner can not pull apart with the lock domino in place.


I think this lock tenon is Brilliant! Did you ask the boss for a raise after he saw it?  [big grin]

Offline RonWen

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Re: The Domino in residential construction.
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2010, 10:35 AM »
A very clever & appropriate use of Domino loose tenons there Woodsman!  I think that we've just scratched the surface of possibilities with the Domino tenons.

Offline Hoover

  • Posts: 129
Re: The Domino in residential construction.
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2010, 04:22 PM »
I'm with Brice and I was going to post that the knock offs not be named before I even got down to Brice's post.

Nick, yes that style of clamp generally has been around for a hundred years but Jim's version of the clamp uses the same concept but goes way beyond the original.  When you look at the two clamps, they are not nearly the same.  But if you look at the cheap shoddy knock offs, they are stolen 100%.  Yeah, the patent is probably up but for gosh sakes change a few things on the thing, don't just steal the guys work 100%.  And as Brice said, this POS knock offs are not made to near the same quality.  Jim's are all brass and stainless steel whereas the knock offs are not.  So the knock offs will rust, stain your work and since they use inferior material, who knows how long they'll last.

Also, Jim stands behind his product 100% and answers the phone if you have an issue or question.  Where can you talk to the owner/developer of a product to get some assistance? 



http://www.miterclamp.com/index.htm

http://www.coastaltool.com/clamps_vises/hartford/images/hart_clamp.jpg

http://www.garymkatz.com/ToolReviews/clam_clamps.html

Offline -woodsman-

  • Posts: 75
Re: The Domino in residential construction.
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2010, 07:19 PM »
Thank you Brice, Rick and Ron.  Brice, the only reason I used two different Domino's in the miter is the ability, due to having three Domino machines on site, to make the joint just a little better.  One size could definitely be used.  We used a Lemello machine to make the connection to the plinth blocks.  Boss thought it would be overkill to use the Domino but that is coming from the guy that thought it was overkill in crown a year ago.  I did not want this to be about the clamps, as you can see I am using Jim's Clam Clamps.  When I do residential work its a mix of high end custom installs and production trim.  A pile of Clam Clamps although highly useful also comes at a large cost.  A cost that many cant afford.  People upgrade there tools all the time and a clamp should be no different.  We all strive to do the best work but having the best tools is not always feasible.  I have been making do with a set of pre Irwin Marpls that do not hold a edge for anything.  I am pining for a set of Matsumura paring chisels and also some larger Barr for timber work but would not have been able to afford them when I started out.  This is the only reason that I mentioned the other brand.

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7371
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Re: The Domino in residential construction.
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2010, 08:45 PM »
......Brice, the only reason I used two different Domino's in the miter is the ability, due to having three Domino machines on site, to make the joint just a little better......


Yeah, that makes sense. Let know this job turn out and maybe post some pictures.

Sorry, I didn't meant to get things side tracked about the clamps.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Hoover

  • Posts: 129
Re: The Domino in residential construction.
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2010, 03:17 PM »
Thank you Brice, Rick and Ron.  Brice, the only reason I used two different Domino's in the miter is the ability, due to having three Domino machines on site, to make the joint just a little better.  One size could definitely be used.  We used a Lemello machine to make the connection to the plinth blocks.  Boss thought it would be overkill to use the Domino but that is coming from the guy that thought it was overkill in crown a year ago.  I did not want this to be about the clamps, as you can see I am using Jim's Clam Clamps.  When I do residential work its a mix of high end custom installs and production trim.  A pile of Clam Clamps although highly useful also comes at a large cost.  A cost that many cant afford.  People upgrade there tools all the time and a clamp should be no different.  We all strive to do the best work but having the best tools is not always feasible.  I have been making do with a set of pre Irwin Marpls that do not hold a edge for anything.  I am pining for a set of Matsumura paring chisels and also some larger Barr for timber work but would not have been able to afford them when I started out.  This is the only reason that I mentioned the other brand.

True enough but you don't really need many clamps.  The clamps are great with the pressure and the direction of the pressure and with something like Titebond II glue, 10 minutes and that joint is about 80% set.  I've had some things set up to where you cannot break the glue joint in less than 10 minutes.  There always is a mix of price and quality.  I tend to buy the best I can and if there is a cost issue, then I'll buy a few and add more when I can.

Good post though.

Offline -woodsman-

  • Posts: 75
Re: The Domino in residential construction.
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2010, 09:48 PM »
I always, if I can, let my joints set for an hour.  I try to manage my time to allow me to do this.  Casing is almost never straight and I find working the legs back and forth to keep the reviles even, strains the miters.  with smaller less stable casings I frequently leave the clamps on until the casing is installed.  While doing production trim having many clamps is invaluable.  The more clamps available the the more glue ups can be done before the clamps need to be removed.  It practically doesn't seem like work when there are enough mitre clamps available to keep the work flow smooth.

Titebond recommends clamping for 30 minutes to one hour for unstressed joints and 24 hrs for stressed joints for all there wood glues.  It makes a huge difference.  These miters have gone through a 30% drop in humidity since we put them together and have remained solid.  Only two or three have opened up minimally at the inside where the stock is 1/4" thick.  If I have the money to spend I will always buy the Clam Clamps.

http://www.titebond.com/FaqTB.asp

Oh yah and the Domino is awesome!