Author Topic: Shop Fire  (Read 4326 times)

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Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 748
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2019, 11:43 AM »
@ Mike Goetzke.   “you can not c/o router bits from above”

What is c/o?

Sorry c/o = change out.

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Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 748
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2019, 12:00 PM »
@ Mike Goetzke.   “you can not c/o router bits from above”

What is c/o?

Sorry c/o = change out.

Ha, on second thoughts maybe I should give this silicone boot a try again. After routing some MDF my router and collet was a mess! Maybe offset wrenches would do the trick?

(Currently I have a 4" dust collector hose attached to the router enclosure and a 2-1/2" shop vac to the router fence.)

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5265
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2019, 12:08 PM »
I don’t have a problem while using offset wrenches on a big old Porter-Cable router. I think I got them from Sommerfeld

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2190
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2019, 03:44 PM »
@ Mike Goetzke.   “you can not c/o router bits from above”

What is c/o?

c/o = change out  is my guess.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3510
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2019, 02:44 AM »
I keep thinking about what might have caused the embers that triggered the two little fires. I was cutting a stopped dado through 3/4” Baltic using a 3/16” carbide bit. The debris was clogging in the dado. And I was having to scrape it out with a small bladed screwdriver.

I’m guessing that the bit got really hot, the bit heat got above 451 F and ignited some of the chunks of sawdust. The ignited chunks fell on top of loose sawdust I had let collect in the bottom of the dust box. Ergo, fire.

Does that scenario make sense?
Birdhunter

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2066
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2019, 08:06 AM »
I keep thinking about what might have caused the embers that triggered the two little fires. I was cutting a stopped dado through 3/4” Baltic using a 3/16” carbide bit. The debris was clogging in the dado. And I was having to scrape it out with a small bladed screwdriver.

I’m guessing that the bit got really hot, the bit heat got above 451 F and ignited some of the chunks of sawdust. The ignited chunks fell on top of loose sawdust I had let collect in the bottom of the dust box. Ergo, fire.

Does that scenario make sense?

I think so, with probably the added element of air movement to fan the ember. It amazes me how persistent an ember can be in a trying-to-start-a-fire scenario, i.e. rubbing sticks together. IME it typically takes blowing on it to ignite other material.

Thanks for the warning, my extinguishers need to be updated after standing sentinel for around 20 years and you prompted me to do it.

RMW

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 748
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2019, 05:32 PM »
It is an 18” cube box that hangs under the top surface of a Kreg router table. It has a 4” duct at the bottom that feeds a big cyclone. The box has doors at the front to allow access to the router and empty any wayward dust.

I’m not a fan of that kind of router dust collection. Apparently the box also accumulates the heat of the router and has enough horizontal surfaces for dust to hang that fire can result. If the router was better ventilated and all chips and dust immediately drawn well away I don’t think even smoldering could occur. At least it hasn’t happened to me.

I like the kind of collection pictured in the link below. The motor is almost completely isolated from debris and it is slowed allowed to breath clean fresh air. Also the hot exhaust from the motor is diverted away from the dust production/collection.

https://www.milescraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/DR11601_S1-webo.jpg

@Michael Kellough

I found a new offering from Milescraft for router dust (looks like updated version of what you posted - says available soon):

https://www.milescraft.com/product/dustrouter/

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3510
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2019, 07:47 PM »
To me, this attachment looks like it would funnel an ember into my big cyclone. With my dust collection box under the router, the ember and resultant fire was contained.
Birdhunter

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1987
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2019, 11:34 PM »
I had to reach into the depths of my gray matter, but I finally found the extinguisher I was thinking of.  Element fire extinguishers.  It covers A, B, C and K fires.  One extinguisher will go for 50 seconds which is substantially longer than a conventional 5 lb cylinder.  Price is about $80 ea., so not cheap, but no mess to contend with.  The one downside is it’s not as conspicuous as a 5 lb cylinder stuck to the wall.  And obviously not intuitive to someone that has never seen one before.



*Edit*
If it interests you, Pelican Parts has a promo code through the end of the year (ELEMENT) good for 15% off.  Free shipping over $99.  No affiliation, I'm just a happy customer.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 11:55 AM by RKA »
-Raj

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4173
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2019, 07:57 AM »
I had to reach into the depths of my gray matter, but I finally found the extinguisher I was thinking of.  Element fire extinguishers.  It covers A, B, C and K fires.  One extinguisher will go for 50 seconds which is substantially longer than a conventional 5 lb cylinder.  Price is about $80 ea., so not cheap, but no mess to contend with.  The one downside is it’s not as conspicuous as a 5 lb cylinder stuck to the wall.  And obviously not intuitive to someone that has never seen one before.

The Element fire extinguishers look like the ideal thing for vehicular fires since there's no residue to mess with the electronics.  Thanks for the heads-up, Raj!   [smile]
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2190
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2019, 11:47 AM »
$80 not bad I think considering all the positive attributes.

An Amerex 5# 2A:10B:C runs about $60 in my neck of the woods so not that much more.
And in the grand scheme of things when it comes to fighting a fire $20 more I would gladly pay for the advantages afforded by the Element extinguisher.

I decided to give it a try so I bought one with an extra mounting bracket which added $2 to the order. With tax and shipping $92 so yeah not cheap but I think it will be worth it. I wouldn't mind having one in the Ham Shack with thousands of dollars of equipment there that would be ruined with a dry chemical extinguisher or water.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 12:06 PM by Bob D. »
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8734
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2019, 09:17 AM »
$80 not bad I think considering all the positive attributes.

An Amerex 5# 2A:10B:C runs about $60 in my neck of the woods so not that much more.
And in the grand scheme of things when it comes to fighting a fire $20 more I would gladly pay for the advantages afforded by the Element extinguisher.

That was my thought also, basically only a $20 surcharge for a cleaner product.  The only down side I did notice is that you need to be fairly close to the fire to use the Element, while the Amerex has a 12'-18' range.  That'd be easier to use on a larger fire. I've used 5# Amerex extinguishers during fire training classes and the increased distance from the fire is reassuring that you're not going to become part of it.  [eek]

Talking about Amerex, here's a shot of 2 Amerex 5# B500 extinguishers that were purchased in 2002. One in the shop & one in the kitchen. The needles haven't moved.  [big grin]




Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1288
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2019, 03:23 PM »
I can tell which one is in the kitchen  [tongue]
Mario

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8734
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2019, 03:39 PM »
I can tell which one is in the kitchen  [tongue]

Ya I noticed that after I posted.  [big grin]

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2190
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2019, 03:43 PM »
Cheese, I remember the same from fire watch classes. We had to show we could put out a fire in a small pan of water about 3 x 4 feet with kerosene burning using both dry chemical and CO2. You are right it appears you need to be closer to be effective with the Element.

On your Amerex units, is the chemical still loose or has it caked up and turned semi-solid. I have heard that it's a good idea to  occasionally agitate them to keep that from happening. Just need to invert them every once in a while.

The disposable dry chemical units should be replaced every 12 years.

Here's a link to a PDF from Amerex of instructions for their extinguishers in case anyone is looking for them.

https://www.amerex-fire.com/upl/downloads/manuals/english/hand-portable-dry-chemical-extinguishers-eaf8ef21.pdf

Also, if anyone has Kidde extinguishers they have had a recall out for years. I got three of mine replaced last year for free even though they were over 8 years old. You can read more about it here:

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/kidde-recalls-fire-extinguishers-with-plastic-handles-due-to-failure-to-discharge-and
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 03:49 PM by Bob D. »
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1987
Re: Shop Fire
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2019, 08:01 PM »
I can tell which one is in the kitchen  [tongue]

It would have to be the dusty one because he has dust collection in the shop!   [tongue]

Thanks for that heads up @Bob D. Guess who has a plastic handled Kidde in the kitchen!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 08:04 PM by RKA »
-Raj