Author Topic: Roubo'ish bench (Read 17807 times)

DynaGlide · « **on:** June 27, 2022, 02:31 PM »

I've been putzing on this for the past 8 weeks or so between work and family obligations. No real rush to finish it although I'd like to have the base frame done in July when I have some time to myself. We'll see how that goes. I don't know why but I got the bug to make a real workbench a few months ago. I guess the seed was planted a few years back when I got my first hand plane.

It's Roubo'ish because I can't fit a full size Roubo into my workshop. The frame however is closely following The Wood Whisperer Roubo bench plans that way if somewhere down the road I decide I really do want that full size bench and tail vise I can make a new top for the existing frame. That would require a new workshop space, though. For now it will receive the Benchcrafted Leg vise, maybe a planing stop, maybe a vise on the end. Haven't made those decisions yet as I've been focusing primarily on working on the frame. I just wrapped up final dimensioning of the legs. The rails are rough dimensioned and I'll deal with those after I do all the mortising on the legs. I need to look around for material for a leg chop next, pretty sure the local dealers carry 12/4 which would save me from laminating boards together.

No real snags yet. I talked myself into an 8" jointer after starting the project and glad I did. There's just so many trips back and forth with the planer and jointer on something like this that I'd be miserable if I tried scheduling time to use my neighbors little 6" every time I needed it. Now I find myself scouring the classifieds for a bandsaw, it just never ends.

Matt

Joelm · « **Reply #1 on:** June 27, 2022, 03:10 PM »

That looks like a great start. I'll definitely be following your progress as I'm going to do something similar this fall.

What size will your top be? What wood did you decide to use?

I decided to pick up the vises for my bench before I start. I went for HNT tail vise because it was so compact and their no racking face vise. They haven't shown up yet but I can wait.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #2 on:** June 27, 2022, 03:43 PM »

Quote from: Joelm on June 27, 2022, 03:10 PM

That looks like a great start. I'll definitely be following your progress as I'm going to do something similar this fall.

What size will your top be? What wood did you decide to use?

I decided to pick up the vises for my bench before I start. I went for HNT tail vise because it was so compact and their no racking face vise. They haven't shown up yet but I can wait.

The top will be 24" wide, standard split top size. The length is probably going to end up in the 60-72" range. The Roubo is 87" long according to Benchcrafted/TWW plans. I'd be stretching it to get the 72" long. Anything bigger and I'd have to give up a space I use to store stationary tools like my planer in the shop so that's a no go. And I don't really want to tackle making that top it's very involved.

I'm using hard maple because it's what I could get easily at a fair price. I haven't bought the lumber for the top yet. Marc used cherry for his most recent Hybrid workbench which sounds silly on its face until you consider its hardness is similar to soft maple, another often used material for workbenches. I wouldn't have had any issue using soft maple either, it's just they had the right sizes of boards in hard maple when I went looking.

Sparktrician · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2022, 08:45 AM »

I'm looking forward to this project's conclusion!

Crazyraceguy · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2022, 05:52 PM »

Looks like a great start. I'll be looking out for progress reports.

Mini Me · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2022, 09:08 PM »

Quote from: DynaGlide on June 27, 2022, 03:43 PM

The top will be 24" wide, standard split top size. The length is probably going to end up in the 60-72" range. The Roubo is 87" long according to Benchcrafted/TWW plans. I'd be stretching it to get the 72" long. Anything bigger and I'd have to give up a space I use to store stationary tools like my planer in the shop so that's a no go. And I don't really want to tackle making that top it's very involved.

I'm using hard maple because it's what I could get easily at a fair price. I haven't bought the lumber for the top yet. Marc used cherry for his most recent Hybrid workbench which sounds silly on its face until you consider its hardness is similar to soft maple, another often used material for workbenches. I wouldn't have had any issue using soft maple either, it's just they had the right sizes of boards in hard maple when I went looking.

The larger the bench the more stuff commonly known as junk seems to accumulate on it. I cut mine down several times before reaching a size that discouraged leaving anything on it as I needed all the space to work. I have knock down assembly table which I use when it is needed for larger projects.

derekcohen · « **Reply #6 on:** June 29, 2022, 09:24 AM »

Quote from: DynaGlide on June 27, 2022, 03:43 PM

Quote from: Joelm on June 27, 2022, 03:10 PM
That looks like a great start. I'll definitely be following your progress as I'm going to do something similar this fall.

What size will your top be? What wood did you decide to use?

I decided to pick up the vises for my bench before I start. I went for HNT tail vise because it was so compact and their no racking face vise. They haven't shown up yet but I can wait.

The top will be 24" wide, standard split top size. The length is probably going to end up in the 60-72" range. The Roubo is 87" long according to Benchcrafted/TWW plans. I'd be stretching it to get the 72" long. Anything bigger and I'd have to give up a space I use to store stationary tools like my planer in the shop so that's a no go. And I don't really want to tackle making that top it's very involved.

I'm using hard maple because it's what I could get easily at a fair price. I haven't bought the lumber for the top yet. Marc used cherry for his most recent Hybrid workbench which sounds silly on its face until you consider its hardness is similar to soft maple, another often used material for workbenches. I wouldn't have had any issue using soft maple either, it's just they had the right sizes of boards in hard maple when I went looking.

You do not say whether you will use your bench for hand- or power tools? If hand tools, I can give you a number of ideas to add to your bench.

The width of mine is 22" wide and 75" long. The top is 3 1/2" thick European Oak and the base is Jarrah.

This is as long as I could fit in my workshop. The width is that recommended for Roubos to be used for handtools, as I do. Unless you have arms like a gorilla, a narrower bench is easier to work across.

I later added a cabinet for tools. There is clearance above it for hold downs.

The leg vise has a wooden screw (with chain drive), and the tail vise comes from Benchcrafted.

Regards from Perth

Derek

DynaGlide · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2022, 10:01 AM »

@derekcohen Beautiful bench you have there.

As it stands I'm 95% power tool but hoping to change that. I do happen to have some gorilla arms so I'm not worried about the depth.

I already have the Benchcrafted leg vise hardware which I will be using. Due to my inexperience with hand tools and not owning a bandsaw or even a real size table saw, I'm avoiding doing the tail vise like you have. I think I would be perfectly content with a screw vise with prairie dogs for clamping longer boards.

Matt

hdv · « **Reply #8 on:** June 29, 2022, 11:04 AM »

@DynaGlide : Sorry to jump in with a somewhat off topic question. I hope you don't mind.

@derekcohen : If I am not mistaken I see Veritas hold-downs besides the more traditional Gramercy's (which I absolutely love). What are your feelings about those? I have been thinking of getting a pair of them myself, but haven't found many reviews by people who have actually used them. If you could share your thoughts on them, that would be much appreciated.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #9 on:** June 29, 2022, 12:50 PM »

In my Google research I came across this Hovarter Wagon Vise:

I like that it is a simple install, no crazy joinery required, and in use it appears you just slide the dog block up to the work and engage the handle about a quarter turn. All pluses in my book.

I dipped out at lunch and found this 12/4 Cherry to use for the Benchcrafted leg chop:

I think it will give a nice contrast against the maple bench.

derekcohen · « **Reply #10 on:** June 29, 2022, 01:01 PM »

Quote from: hdv on June 29, 2022, 11:04 AM

@DynaGlide : Sorry to jump in with a somewhat off topic question. I hope you don't mind.

@derekcohen : If I am not mistaken I see Veritas hold-downs besides the more traditional Gramercy's (which I absolutely love). What are your feelings about those? I have been thinking of getting a pair of them myself, but haven't found many reviews by people who have actually used them. If you could share your thoughts on them, that would be much appreciated.

Yes, two Gramercy and three Veritas hold downs.

They are slightly different in their applications (for me). Both are really excellent.

The Gramercy are compact, that is, have a low profile and shorter throw. The only downside is that they need to be loosened with a tap to the rear, and need clearance for this … my bench can get busy!

Some find the Gramercy can come loose in their dog hole, but I have never experienced this. I suspect it is more likely to occur with benches 4” thick and greater. I made a video of how well they hold ….

The Veritas has a longer throw, and this is important when a longer reach is needed. The screw clamp is also easy to set and release, and does not require any rear clearance. As with the Gramercy, I have never had one slip or loosen on its own.

The only downside of the Veritas, compared with the Gramercy, is the cost. These are quality products but are about three times the other. Why three? I was fortunate that Rob Lee, who is a good friend, made a gift of one. Then some years later I purchased two more from a woodworker selling up his tools.

Regards from Perth

Derek

hdv · « **Reply #11 on:** June 29, 2022, 01:25 PM »

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

I never had a Gramercy come loose myself in my Sjögrens workbench. But I did experience some marring. However, that might have been user error (this user, that is...

). Since then I've made some thin wooden strips with a leather hoop to use between the holdfast and the workpiece (an idea I took from a German woodworker called Heiko Rech) and that really did help.

The "tapping from behind to loosen" was exactly why I was wondering if I should get a pair. Often my workbench has to be against the wall due to space constraints and then it can be a lot handier to be able to loosen the holdfast from above. I hadn't realised they had a greater reach. That can be quite useful.

I noticed their price. Yeah, that hurts a bit. But up to now all the Veritas gear I ever bought was of great quality and built to last longer than I will. That makes it easier to swallow. I am more of a "cry once" guy anyway.

The post seems to have the same "aggressive" barbs as the posts for the toggle clamp plates do (I expect them to be the same). Did you notice any detrimental effect on the dog holes in your bench because of that?

DynaGlide · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2022, 05:12 PM »

I took care of all the leg mortises. I clamped start and stop blocks to each leg to control where the edge guide started and stopped for each pass. Each mortise took 8 plunges/passes to hit 2" deep then I had to re-set the edge guide and do another 8 passes to hit the right width and depth. That was extremely tedious and time consuming.

I'll probably finish up dimensioning the chop before moving onto fitting the benchcrafted leg vise hardware.

festal · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2022, 07:55 AM »

Looking good

question about holdfasts. Can holdfasts work in larder diameter dog holes then 3/4"? My bench is 30mm dog holes and I can't seem to find larger diameter holdfasts

guybo · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2022, 09:22 AM »

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/clamps/111781-workbench-adapters-for-bessey-hold-down-clamps

Quote from: festal on July 09, 2022, 07:55 AM

My bench is 30mm dog holes and I can't seem to find larger diameter holdfasts

https://www.pecktool.com/product/pair-of-round-bench-dogs/

Bob D. · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2022, 10:10 AM »

Quote from: festal on July 09, 2022, 07:55 AM

Looking good

question about holdfasts. Can holdfasts work in larder diameter dog holes then 3/4"? My bench is 30mm dog holes and I can't seem to find larger diameter holdfasts

Maybe you could sleeve your 30mm dog holes so you could use a smaller diameter holdfast. A 30mm tube with 5mm wall thickness with a 20mm flat washer tack welded to one end to keep it from slipping down in the hole.

Or possibly find a sleeve bushing of the required size. I didn't find one doing a quick search but I only looked at McMaster's site.

https://www.mcmaster.com/5448T552/

hdv · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2022, 10:55 AM »

Here's some links to 30 mm products (dogs and holdfasts):

https://www.sautershop.com/workbench-dogs-oe-30-mm-pi-bench-3
https://www.dictum.com/en/accessories-and-clamping-devices-baoe/ulmia-aluminium-bench-dogs-oe-30-mm-1-pair-706086
https://www.dictum.com/en/accessories-and-clamping-devices-baoe/klemmsia-hold-down-clamp-adapter-basic-shaft-oe-30-mm-clamping-height-150-mm-708127
https://www.fine-tools.com/spannelemente.html

The last one refers to Bessey adapters for 30 mm holes. I think that could be your best option. It would allow you to make use of the broad range of 19 and 20 mm tools available.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #17 on:** July 09, 2022, 12:19 PM »

I'm having fun with this build. Prior to starting this I had never:

1) Bought rough lumber
2) Jointed or planed anything
3) Cut a real mortise (and soon to be tenons)

I'm using a healthy amount of stop blocks clamped to my table and to the parts I'm routing to keep the setup as repeatable as possible for all the passes I'm making. When it came time to do the chiseling portions I went slow. Luckily I sharpened the chisel I'm using a year back nicely and haven't used it since doing so.

With the leg done I'll go do the chop mortise next for the Benchcrafted Criss Cross and Glide Retro hardware.

Matt

festal · « **Reply #18 on:** July 09, 2022, 01:30 PM »

@DynaGlide apologies for hijacking the thread.
Looks great. I'm starting a build where i'll be doing all 3 for the first time as well

Thank you all

Bob D. · « **Reply #19 on:** July 09, 2022, 03:16 PM »

"The last one refers to Bessey adapters for 30 mm holes."

There ya go, I didn't realize someone had an adapter
out there already. I should have known better.

Steve1 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2022, 08:13 AM »

Quote from: DynaGlide on June 27, 2022, 03:43 PM

The top will be 24" wide, standard split top size. The length is probably going to end up in the 60-72" range. The Roubo is 87" long according to Benchcrafted/TWW plans. I'd be stretching it to get the 72" long. .

One good thing about making it a little smaller is that you may actually be ably to move it, when you need to. All that maple ain't going to be light.

My workbenches fortunately have enough height between the floor and the bottom beam, that I can slide my pump jack under it to lift it a bit, then slide a set of dollies under it.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #21 on:** July 10, 2022, 08:17 AM »

Quote from: Steve1 on July 10, 2022, 08:13 AM

Quote from: DynaGlide on June 27, 2022, 03:43 PM
The top will be 24" wide, standard split top size. The length is probably going to end up in the 60-72" range. The Roubo is 87" long according to Benchcrafted/TWW plans. I'd be stretching it to get the 72" long. .

One good thing about making it a little smaller is that you may actually be ably to move it, when you need to. All that maple ain't going to be light.

My workbenches fortunately have enough height between the floor and the bottom beam, that I can slide my pump jack under it to lift it a bit, then slide a set of dollies under it.

I was planning on a set of Rockler workbench casters. They remove when not needed leaving just the bracket behind.

festal · « **Reply #22 on:** July 10, 2022, 09:44 AM »

Quote from: DynaGlide on July 10, 2022, 08:17 AM

Quote from: Steve1 on July 10, 2022, 08:13 AM
Quote from: DynaGlide on June 27, 2022, 03:43 PM
The top will be 24" wide, standard split top size. The length is probably going to end up in the 60-72" range. The Roubo is 87" long according to Benchcrafted/TWW plans. I'd be stretching it to get the 72" long. .

One good thing about making it a little smaller is that you may actually be ably to move it, when you need to. All that maple ain't going to be light.

My workbenches fortunately have enough height between the floor and the bottom beam, that I can slide my pump jack under it to lift it a bit, then slide a set of dollies under it.

I was planning on a set of Rockler workbench casters. They remove when not needed leaving just the bracket behind.

I just installed Powertec version on my bench. Excellent idea

DynaGlide · « **Reply #23 on:** July 11, 2022, 11:03 AM »

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-q5pCGLk/0/7a91bc68/1280/i-q5pCGLk-1280.mp4

I'm having way too much fun with this. I was pretty nervous about drilling out for the giant acme screw. I bought that WEN benchtop drill press to do it and it was a little sketchy but coming at it from both sides got it done. The rest of the install took some fiddling, careful drilling and tapping and measuring and wiggling but it all came together nicely. I may be putting a pin in this for a while before tackling the tenons on the rails and tops of the legs.

Matt

neilc · « **Reply #24 on:** July 13, 2022, 12:59 PM »

Great progress, Matt! Thanks for the detailed photos.

Have you considered Andrew's vise? https://www.in-kleind.com/store/Twin-Turbo-Vise-c34750217

DynaGlide · « **Reply #25 on:** July 26, 2022, 09:56 AM »

Quote from: neilc on July 13, 2022, 12:59 PM

Great progress, Matt! Thanks for the detailed photos.

Have you considered Andrew's vise? https://www.in-kleind.com/store/Twin-Turbo-Vise-c34750217

Thank you Neil! As much as I'd like a twin screw vise I think the consideration for me is going to be of space. I have decided to go with the Benchcrafted tail vise. I'll have to make some changes to the top and possibly the distance between the legs to fit it in but I should be able to get a 72" or so long bench this way. I use my Festool clamping elements all the time and the thought of having a moving dog block integrated into the bench that does a better job at work holding is enticing.

When I started on this bench build I talked myself out of doing the wagon/tail vise because it seemed like too much work and outside of my skill range. I've built up the courage to tackle it and do the condor tails. If it comes down to it I can phone a friend for help when it comes to that part of the install.

Between vacation and hitting some snags I've been on a holding pattern but slowly starting to get back to it:

I made a sub fence for the Incra miter to reduce tearout while doing the tenons:

And discovered my table saw blade height drops in use. There's no adjustments to tighten it up so I resorted to using a clamp on the hand wheel which worked fine:

I left the tenons oversized for now in all dimensions. I ordered a router plane to trim them to fit and will do so for each mortise and label accordingly.

The other thing slowing this down is wood is expensive as heck. I had sold some tools off recently to start a bandsaw fund but I think instead I'm going to have to use that money to get the tail vise and wood for the top or else this isn't getting finished until next year.

Matt

hdv · « **Reply #26 on:** July 26, 2022, 10:44 AM »

Sorry if I misread your post, or just misunderstand it. A router plane can be used for mortices and grooves. For tenons, a shoulder plane would be better. Of course, you could make a jig/fence to support the overhanging part of the router plane when planing tenons, but even then I would prefer a shoulder plane for such tasks. In my experience sneaking up to a good fit is a lot easier to do by planing the tenons.

tsmi243 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 26, 2022, 04:22 PM »

Quote from: hdv on July 26, 2022, 10:44 AM

Sorry if I misread your post, or just misunderstand it. A router plane can be used for mortices and grooves. For tenons, a shoulder plane would be better. Of course, you could make a jig/fence to support the overhanging part of the router plane when planing tenons, but even then I would prefer a shoulder plane for such tasks. In my experience sneaking up to a good fit is a lot easier to do by planing the tenons.

Router plane for cheeks, not shoulders. Works great.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #28 on:** July 29, 2022, 09:33 AM »

Paul Sellers video turned me onto the router plane for tenon cheeks. Lie Nielsen has a nice one too. Yesterday I purchased the mortise and tenon video by David Charlesworth and he probably demonstrates it better than anyone using a dial caliper to perfectly come up to the fit he wants.

While I'm not as good as any of those people I am liking how precise the trimming is:

DynaGlide · « **Reply #29 on:** August 01, 2022, 03:09 PM »

This is going a lot slower than I planned but that's okay. No rush and other things come first. First rail is fit. Part of the delay is figuring out what techniques work best for me. So far it's table saw to get tenon oversized, router plane to fit the cheeks, then chisel to round over the corners and trim up any problem areas. I added a leather strop to my sharpening routine and that has made doing the fine paring much easier.

Matt