Author Topic: Roubo'ish bench (Read 14913 times)

DynaGlide · « **Reply #30 on:** August 08, 2022, 01:59 PM »

Base is coming along slowly but surely. This is a marathon for me not a sprint. I have a decision to make that's keeping me from moving foward: 20mm or 3/4" holes? I have to do the front right leg (and later the tops) with whatever I pick.

Naturally I have a lot of 20mm Festool stuff but zero experience with holdfasts. It seems the overwhelming majority of traditional bench hardware is 3/4".

Thanks for any and all opinions on this,
Matt

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #31 on:** August 08, 2022, 02:29 PM »

Matt, my gut is that there's not a lot of use case overlap with 20mm dogs on this type of bench. The thicker bench precludes using the clamps, and I think longer dogs are more functional in a thick bench than the relatively short MFT style dogs.

Do you have an interest in adding holdfasts to your arsenal? If yes, I think you may be limited to 3/4".

Andy Klein has some interesting takes on dogs for thicker benches in case you are not familiar with them.

RMW

DynaGlide · « **Reply #32 on:** August 08, 2022, 02:35 PM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on August 08, 2022, 02:29 PM

Matt, my gut is that there's not a lot of use case overlap with 20mm dogs on this type of bench. The thicker bench precludes using the clamps, and I think longer dogs are more functional in a thick bench than the relatively short MFT style dogs.

Do you have an interest in adding holdfasts to your arsenal? If yes, I think you may be limited to 3/4".

Andy Klein has some interesting takes on dogs for thicker benches in case you are not familiar with them.

RMW

That's kind of where I'm headed as well Richard. I don't foresee using traditional Festool stuff on this sort of bench. The holes are really only there for holdfasts, which seem better suited with 3/4".

hdv · « **Reply #33 on:** August 08, 2022, 05:54 PM »

Yeah, I do agree: go for 3/4" in a real bench with a substantial top.

As a matter of fact I have standardised my complete shop to 3/4" holes. I used to have some 20 mm stuff, but I ditched it. I have some worktops with holes in them (not a full grit), but I opted to make those in 3/4" too. I bought a Famag brad point and Forstner just for that. I never missed the 20 mm holes since doing that. No more messing around with 2 different dog hole systems. But that is purely a personal and subjective opinion. It definitely is not based on some objectively determined advantage.

TBH, there is one exception: I have a few 20 mm holes for the TSO triangle, because I really didn't want to ditch that wonderful tool. However, I might not be representative, because I own a slider and therefore do not use an MFT-like top for cutting. When I use the guide rail for cutting I use the TSO PGS and/or GRS and I don't need dog holes for that.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #34 on:** August 09, 2022, 07:26 AM »

@hdv Thanks for the real world experience with the 3/4 holes. I went ahead and ordered a Wood Owl Overdrive bit to make them. It should get here sometime today thanks to the magic of Amazon.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #35 on:** August 11, 2022, 07:55 AM »

Joelm · « **Reply #36 on:** August 11, 2022, 08:02 AM »

That is looking great!

festal · « **Reply #37 on:** August 12, 2022, 07:29 AM »

Looking really good

hdv · « **Reply #38 on:** August 12, 2022, 10:16 AM »

Nice and sturdy!

I am reading the Anarchist's Workbench at the moment and you are dangerously close to getting me to build a new workbench for myself.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #39 on:** August 12, 2022, 11:36 AM »

Thanks guys. It's been an experience that's for sure.

@hdv

neilc · « **Reply #40 on:** August 12, 2022, 04:27 PM »

Fit and finish on those legs is approaching Museum quality! Nice work!

Here's an alternative for you. Rather than holdfasts, check out Jorgensen's hold down clamps. I have four of them on my traditional bench and also use them on my MFT and other shop tables. They work great and will hold just about anything TIGHT to the bench.

https://www.amazon.com/1623-HOLD-DOWN-CLAMP-3-Inch/dp/B0000DD1RD

I contacted Jorgensen and ordered additional bolts that drop into countersinks in my bench. That gave me more clamping locations. They ship with a cotter pin to allow them to more permanently stay in place connected to the bolts.

On the MFT, it's easy to get bolts, wing nuts and fender washers and just stick them through the holes, slide the clamp over them and tighten the wing nut underneath to secure the clamp for repeat work.

Personally, since you are invested in FT, I'd go with 20mm holes if you think you need them on the new bench. Mine has traditional bench dogs from when I made it 35 years ago!

hdv · « **Reply #41 on:** August 13, 2022, 05:14 AM »

I just might. But first I have to wait for my new workshop to be built. I hope to have a shop of 55m2 in a few months time. If the permit comes through, that is.

hdv · « **Reply #42 on:** August 13, 2022, 07:28 AM »

Hi Matt, I thought you might be interested in this.

These are all my options for clamping on the workbench (barring various vices) . All are on a 3/4" post. Even the cookie.

I am still waiting for a delivery from Germany for a dowel maker, so I can make my own 19 mm or 3/4" dowels. I am planning to use either some hardwood or maybe UHMWPE for that. I'll have to experiment which works better. The PE will need to be roughened, because otherwise it will be too smooth. But the material might be better suited to this type of use. Or not. I don't know yet. We'll see...

I also do have a systainer with 3/4" dogs from Woodpeckers I got for my birthday from my wife. But those are just dogs, so not need to make a photograph of those, I think.

This one is in use, so I couldn't make a picture of it, but I do like that mounting post quite a lot:

https://www.dictum.com/en/accessories-and-clamping-devices-baoe/dictum-mounting-post-ssp-for-hold-down-clamp-728990?c=2957

There's also a very nice planing stop from Veritas, but I have lent it to a friend, so no picture of that either.

By the way, the posts from the Veritas saddles are removable and quite cheap. So that is a very good option when you want to make your own jigs with a 3/4" post.

Klemsia has some nice wooden clamps for 3/4" holes as well.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #43 on:** August 26, 2022, 08:14 AM »

Thanks @neilc and @hdv for the ideas. I've decided to go 3/4" on this bench mainly because I don't foresee using Festool style clamps on a handtool oriented workbench.

I stalled on ordering lumber for the top because the prices are not great right now. Best I could do for 8/4 soft maple in the quantities I need was $6.25/bf plus a nominal delivery fee. There's a place local Vienna Hardwoods that's a bit cheaper but they either never have enough stock or only have wide boards. I was able to get all 9-10' lengths 5-6" wide which is about perfect. Had I planned better I would've bought this in the beginning and used offcuts for the base of the bench and saved a good deal of money. Live and learn.

Matt

hdv · « **Reply #44 on:** August 26, 2022, 02:30 PM »

With hindsight, there's always something you would have liked to do differently...

Yesterday I got a message from Sauter for these:

https://www.sautershop.com/clamp-dog-for-toggle-clamps-vario-sa-cldog-vario

They seem very nice and fit both Bessey and Kreg clamps.

These from Veritas can be used with Kreg clamps too:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-gb/shop/tools/workshop/workbenches/benchtop-accessories/74610-clamp-plate-and-posts-for-kreg-hold-down-clamps?item=50F0211

DynaGlide · « **Reply #45 on:** August 31, 2022, 09:49 AM »

It took me about 7 hours of non-stop work to rip down 16 boards using my TS55 and rip blade, joint a face and edge, and make the opposing face parallel. It was pretty intensive and my back is still recovering 6 days later.

I went ahead and assembled the base and chamfered all the edges as well:

Once I get some more time I'll do another final milling on the top lumber before glue up.

Matt

hdv · « **Reply #46 on:** August 31, 2022, 05:18 PM »

@festal : are you still looking for 30 mm dogs? Last week I got a notice from Sauter for something that might be of use to you then.

See this:

https://www.sautershop.com/clamp-dog-for-toggle-clamps-vario-30mm-bolt-set-cldog-vario-30?c=16534

and

https://www.sautershop.com/bolt-oe30mm-for-bench-dog-adapter-vario-sa-cldog-vario-b30

DynaGlide · « **Reply #47 on:** September 08, 2022, 10:46 AM »

Inching closer to having some tops to work on. All the boards are oversized S4S now in all dimensions.

Starting to pick out which ones I want to use for the front laminate which will receive the Benchcrafted tail vise:

Since the majority of the boards are still 2" thick and 4.5" wide I'll have plenty of wiggle room.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #48 on:** September 11, 2022, 08:01 AM »

Front laminate is glued up and nice and flat on the bottom

luvmytoolz · « **Reply #49 on:** September 11, 2022, 08:34 AM »

Nice work! There's always something very pleasing about seeing large glue-ups, watching a project come together is just great!

festal · « **Reply #50 on:** September 11, 2022, 04:57 PM »

Nice. Did you use the domino?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DynaGlide · « **Reply #51 on:** September 11, 2022, 05:28 PM »

Quote from: festal on September 11, 2022, 04:57 PM

Nice. Did you use the domino?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I did but that picture is after passing it over the jointer

DynaGlide · « **Reply #52 on:** September 13, 2022, 09:22 AM »

For the rear slab that is 11 1/16" wide I decided to do it in sections:

Reason being it's easier to do the glue up and I can pass each section over the jointer to flatten the bottom before joining them together. Even with Dominos as alignment aids the boards are not flush on the bottom across such a length.

Once both sections are flat on the bottom I'll pay more attention to keeping them flush during glue up since I can't run the joined slab across my 8" jointer. I know about the removal of the rabbeting ledge trick but that hasn't worked too well for me in the past when I tried it. I'm hoping to avoid having to do that.

Matt

festal · « **Reply #53 on:** September 13, 2022, 09:31 AM »

12" jointer

DynaGlide · « **Reply #54 on:** September 13, 2022, 09:33 AM »

Quote from: festal on September 13, 2022, 09:31 AM

12" jointer

As soon as I buy a 12" jointer I'll need to joint something 12.5".

luvmytoolz · « **Reply #55 on:** September 13, 2022, 04:55 PM »

Quote from: DynaGlide on September 13, 2022, 09:33 AM

Quote from: festal on September 13, 2022, 09:31 AM
12" jointer

As soon as I buy a 12" jointer I'll need to joint something 12.5".

That's why a lot of them come in at 13" width of cut!

But as you say, the first project would then probably be 13.5"! ;-)

DynaGlide · « **Reply #56 on:** September 14, 2022, 02:08 PM »

My front laminate that gets the benchcrafted tail vise is squared up. Plans call for 4", it's at 4 5/16" currently. I'll probably take it down
to 4" to make my life easier. The milling and construction of the tops is probably the most intimidating part of all of this. I'm working alone so I have to be selective with how I approach things. The rear 11 1/16" x 4 1/2" x 85" laminate is glued up and that sucker weighs a ton:

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #57 on:** September 14, 2022, 02:32 PM »

Looking gorgeous Matt! Those heavy slabs of hardwoods are so foreign to me in these days of knock-down workbenches, gotta admit you are making me drool a bit.

The final payoff is getting close. You may hit another nerve-wracking phase when installing vises comes into play but then it's clear sailing.

Enjoy the process.

RMW

egmiii · « **Reply #58 on:** September 15, 2022, 08:49 AM »

You know what would make this job a lot easier...a nice heavy workbench!

Looking good. When it's all said and done, I'd love the hear your thoughts on what you would do differently (if anything). I'd like to build a Roubo this winter and have been studying different designs.

DynaGlide · « **Reply #59 on:** September 15, 2022, 10:21 AM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on September 14, 2022, 02:32 PM

Looking gorgeous Matt! Those heavy slabs of hardwoods are so foreign to me in these days of knock-down workbenches, gotta admit you are making me drool a bit.

The final payoff is getting close. You may hit another nerve-wracking phase when installing vises comes into play but then it's clear sailing.

Enjoy the process.

RMW

Thank you Richard. I got into woodworking thinking I'd only ever do cabinets. I'd argue I got pretty darn good at those. I don't think I'd associate "fun" with cabinetry though. It's satisfying but also kind of I don't know, cold in the precision? I have loads of built ins left to do in my house and I know they'll all turn out nice. I wanted to do this project as a way to force me into the other side of things. The beauty is I can still pop up my Track Tubes MFT tables wherever/whenever I want.

I'm dreading that vise and dog hole strip and condor tails on the front laminate.

Quote from: egmiii on September 15, 2022, 08:49 AM

You know what would make this job a lot easier...a nice heavy workbench!

Looking good. When it's all said and done, I'd love the hear your thoughts on what you would do differently (if anything). I'd like to build a Roubo this winter and have been studying different designs.

Ha not so sure a workbench would've helped me any. This is all grunt work right now. So far the only thing I possibly would've changed would be the height of the leg vise handle. I'm 6'2 and in testing it out it felt a bit low. Raising it up though sacrifices capacity. I'll probably be fine with it set at the standard height in use.

That rear slab was tough. After glue up the two halves slipped past each other, hence the hand plane in a previous post. No big deal, it ended up nice and flat. I re-purposed my @TSO Products parallel guides to use as winding sticks. The slab is at 4 1/8" now and is, as far as I can tell, flat across it's length and square on all sides. I'll probably leave it there for now and mill it down to 4" when I'm completely done with the front slab and associated vise install.

Matt