Author Topic: question on build material for you pros :0  (Read 7119 times)

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Offline #Tee

  • Posts: 786
question on build material for you pros :0
« on: March 03, 2015, 11:39 PM »
Hi all, im trying to make some doors like this. i was thinking of using acrylic for the panel and sanding them for the frosted look. as for the rail and stiles what material should i use? and how thick should it be for a sturdy construction? it will be painted matte white. if mdf how thick?

When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

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Offline neilc

  • Posts: 3040
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2015, 11:47 PM »
I would use 1 1/2 material - could be two 3/4 pieces of poplar or MDF for the doors.  I don't think you will get the stability you want with only 3/4 size.  Plus they are doors so I think you want a little more 'heft.

If you do two pieces of 3/4 material laminated together, you cut cut a rabbet on the inside faces to 1/8" and give you 1/4" inset for the plexiglas or frosted glass.

Not clear how the top rollers attach, but you might need to inset solid wood between two smaller pieces of MDF to give you enough screw holding strength given the weight.

Not sure you will be pleased with sanding the plexiglas to give you a frosted look.  I have tried sanding aluminum to give a brushed look and was never happy with the look, and I think the same could be true with the plexiglas.  Might want to try on a scrap from the Hardware store first.

Reeded glass would look great in those doors!  So many cool patterns you can custom order in glass that you might want to consider to really make a 'statement' with the doors.

Great project - please share photos as you progress with them.

neil

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2015, 11:56 PM »
You can buy frosted acrylic. Home Depot, internet suppliers ,etc.

Seth

Offline #Tee

  • Posts: 786
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2015, 12:16 AM »
neil thanks for your input! my plan was to sand 1/8in arylic on one side and sandwich 2 of them together to have a frosted look on the inside while a nice clean glass texture on the outside. ill look into the frosted glass option from homedepot as well Seth.

another question whats the best way to paint without overspraying into the glass after the door is assembled? basically like a car and mask up the glass carefully and peal off?
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline tjbnwi

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  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2015, 12:28 AM »
The acrylic should come with a barrier film, don't remove until after painting.

6/4 maple planed to 1-3/8.

Tom

Offline Evergreen

  • Posts: 31
    • www.evergreencraftsmen.com
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2015, 12:34 AM »
I built some doors very similar to these, but in VG fir.  For the panel material, I used some pretty amazing acrylic panels from 3form.  http://www.3-form.com/materials/varia_ecoresin/moderna/linea_ivory/

They were about 3/8" thick and super heavy.  For the doors, I used 140mm dominos with the XL.  I believe the carriers and track system were from Ducasse. http://www.ducasseindustrial.com/frame.aspx?Evento=Productos

Offline Cheese

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Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2015, 12:35 AM »


Not sure you will be pleased with sanding the plexiglas to give you a frosted look.  I have tried sanding aluminum to give a brushed look and was never happy with the look, and I think the same could be true with the plexiglas.  Might want to try on a scrap from the Hardware store first.

Reeded glass would look great in those doors!  So many cool patterns you can custom order in glass that you might want to consider to really make a 'statement' with the doors.

Great project - please share photos as you progress with them.

neil
[/quote

I concurr. Reeded glass looks great as would etched glass or sandblasted/beadblasted glass. These doors will need to be washed from time to time and plexi or acrylic is prone to scratching. Real glass isn't that much more expensive than plastic.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8739
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2015, 12:44 AM »

Quote from: neilc
Not sure you will be pleased with sanding the plexiglas to give you a frosted look.  I have tried sanding aluminum to give a brushed look and was never happy with the look, and I think the same could be true with the plexiglas.  Might want to try on a scrap from the Hardware store first.

Reeded glass would look great in those doors!  So many cool patterns you can custom order in glass that you might want to consider to really make a 'statement' with the doors.



I concurr. Reeded glass looks great as would etched glass or sandblasted/beadblasted glass. Remember these doors will need to be washed from time to time and plexi or acrylic is very prone to scratching so paper towels are a no-no. Real glass isn't that much more expensive than plastic.

Offline #Tee

  • Posts: 786
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2015, 12:47 AM »
thanks everyone1, ya i just ask and shes not digging the reeded glass look. i would love to use maple but its rather expensive and it will be painted anyways? i figured it wont be used much as it will be dividing a living and family room so itll be open most of its life time. its mainly just looks for her.
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline Alex

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Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2015, 03:24 AM »
If you make the doors out of MDF they will be very heavy. I think you'll also run into problems with the hardware on the top over time, the MDF will wear where they are connected. I have only seen these doors out of solid wood.

I concur with the choice for frosted acrylic, reeded glas will still have a see through effect, not what you want in all places of the house. Forget sanding, buy it frosted as Seth suggested.

As for spray painting, I would do all the painting before assembly. The problem with masking glass is that even though you mask it, paint can still creep under it leaving small but ugly streaks. Those are easily removed later with normal glass, but not with acrylic.

Offline T. Ernsberger

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Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2015, 07:25 AM »
I would not build any doors and or much of anything out of mdf.   I use it as a filler panels in side cabinet doors and thats it.   Doors get beat up pretty bad over there life and mdf will not hold up to the abuse.   I would build the doors 1 3/8 out of vertical grain fur as my first choice, maple would be my second.   Poplar isnt stable enough to use on a door.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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    • Warner Mill Works
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2015, 08:05 AM »
The acrylic should come with a barrier film, don't remove until after painting.

6/4 maple planed to 1-3/8.

Tom

Thats not much meat to make sure you can have a flat board.  I start with 8/4 for doors.

Online rst

  • Posts: 2653
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2015, 10:43 AM »
Just a note, by code you must not put regular, patterned or otherwise breakable glass in doors, transums or side lites within 15" of a door, also any glass within 18" of the floor.  You must use safety glazing: tempered or laminated.  Acrylics are allowed as they break differently than glass.  There are for practical purposes no sharper edges than broken glass.  Even tempered glass can cut but the pieces are small enough too not be considered life threatening.  The biggest problem with acrylics and more so with polycarbonates is they scratch so easily, even with routine cleaning.  You really should price tempered obscure as there are many wonderful patterns available.

Offline iamnothim

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Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 10:52 AM »
I made these from 5/4 hard maple.



My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline #Tee

  • Posts: 786
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2015, 03:31 PM »
thanks for all the suggestion guys! another question guys?? with all these barn door applications...i get the top slides but the bottom just flops around? how do you keep that from scraping the baseboards? [embarassed]
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1490
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2015, 04:24 PM »
thanks for all the suggestion guys! another question guys?? with all these barn door applications...i get the top slides but the bottom just flops around? how do you keep that from scraping the baseboards? [embarassed]

There's usually a bottom guide of some sort. IF you buy a hardware kit it is usually included. Here are some examples:

http://www.realslidinghardware.com/bottom-guides/

Offline Joseph C

  • Posts: 266
    • Integrity Design+Build
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2015, 06:26 PM »
A production outfit would make them from a lumber stave core with a veneer for paintability.  If you want the obscure look, use laminated glass.  It very well could be a "fun" project to undertake, but consider that shops who build these are specialized and generally more cost-effective than DIY.

Regarding the hardware - I use Crown Industrial out of SF, though there are a number of companies who sell similar-looking hardware for less money and less quality.  Beware of any hardware that includes "mushroomed" standoffs to sit directly on the drywall, you will want direct contact with the studs behind.  You can usually fit a size down of washer (eg 3/8" washer on 1/2" lag bolt) between standoffs and studs to shim a straight line for the track.  Use a good plumb bob to locate the hidden floor guide. 
Lastly, allow for at least 1 full inch of overlay past opening when sizing the doors.
TS75, OF1010, PS300, Domino500, MFT/3, CT22 + WCR, CT MIDI, RS2e, RO150, ETS150, DS400, RO90, Grex 2" micropinner (festool green), and packing everything else into systainers, too.

Online rst

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Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2015, 08:19 PM »
What Joe C said about overlap is correct, add 1" more than half the opening dimension to each door leaf.

Offline #Tee

  • Posts: 786
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2015, 06:42 AM »
thanks for everyones help! i finished this project about 3 weeks ago. i ended going with 5/4 poplar, acrylic with frosted film to cut cost down, 2 barndoor kit from amazon. everything came out to 630 in materials. the owner was extremely happy :) now i can cross this out of my things to make before i die [scared]






When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline waho6o9

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    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2015, 11:24 AM »
Clean work #Tee !

Offline Cheese

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Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2015, 11:53 AM »
@#Tee
I'm assuming you used dominoes to attach the rails & stiles, if so, what size did you use?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 12:55 PM by Cheese »

Offline Billedis

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Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2015, 03:20 PM »
Very nice job.  Bill

Offline #Tee

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Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2015, 03:50 PM »
@#Tee
I'm assuming you used dominoes to attach the rails & stiles, if so, what size did you use?

thanks all, i dont have a domino so i did the tongue and groove on the stiles/rails. i used the kapex to make the trench cuts on the rails.
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Online socaljohn

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Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2015, 06:36 PM »
WOW! The "Owner" has very good taste.
Great workmanship.

Offline Cheese

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Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2015, 08:23 PM »
@#Tee
I'm assuming you used dominoes to attach the rails & stiles, if so, what size did you use?

thanks all, i dont have a domino so i did the tongue and groove on the stiles/rails. i used the kapex to make the trench cuts on the rails.

Great creative use of the Kapex, was there any tear-out with it?
Nice job, looks good.

Offline #Tee

  • Posts: 786
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2015, 08:54 PM »
thanks socal john!

cheese, i have zero clearance support on both sides of the material so i had no tear out [big grin] it was kinda fun trying it out but clearly a dado on a table saw would be the fastest/easiest.

one thing i noticed on these smcs..if im doing a push thru cut while holding the small stock material with my hand i end up getting a horrible cut. there will be a slight gap at the end of the cut if i hold up a square and put a light behind it.

if put alot of pressure and my weight on the stock the cut improves..so basically i would have to use a clamp every time. im not sure if everyone else experience this?
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8739
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2015, 12:23 AM »

if put alot of pressure and my weight on the stock the cut improves..so basically i would have to use a clamp every time. im not sure if everyone else experience this?


Coming from a metal machining background, the norm is to clamp everything, so even for woodworking, it is second nature for me to secure the piece with something other than my hand. You'll always have a cleaner cut/finish.

For example, today I was using a forstner bit in a drill press making shallow cuts in some hickory. I decided not to clamp the part because the cut was only 1/2" in diameter and 1/8" deep. The first two pieces were fine and then I noticed on the 3rd piece, I saw the edge of the forstner bit grab just a little bit and it moved the workpiece .010-.015". Not a big deal, but noticeable. I clamped the remaining 12 pieces and they came out perfectly.

For woodworking as opposed to rough carpentry, it's always worth taking the extra time to firmly secure the work piece for both safety and finish quality reasons.

Offline #Tee

  • Posts: 786
Re: question on build material for you pros :0
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2015, 06:59 AM »

if put alot of pressure and my weight on the stock the cut improves..so basically i would have to use a clamp every time. im not sure if everyone else experience this?


Coming from a metal machining background, the norm is to clamp everything, so even for woodworking, it is second nature for me to secure the piece with something other than my hand. You'll always have a cleaner cut/finish.

For example, today I was using a forstner bit in a drill press making shallow cuts in some hickory. I decided not to clamp the part because the cut was only 1/2" in diameter and 1/8" deep. The first two pieces were fine and then I noticed on the 3rd piece, I saw the edge of the forstner bit grab just a little bit and it moved the workpiece .010-.015". Not a big deal, but noticeable. I clamped the remaining 12 pieces and they came out perfectly.

For woodworking as opposed to rough carpentry, it's always worth taking the extra time to firmly secure the work piece for both safety and finish quality reasons.

ahh that makes alot of sense then, i started wooding about 2 years ago and noticed how everyone makes certain cuts with the smcs either its a chop or a push cut they never seem to be holding a clamp down because all they would show is how clean the cut is but in reality the stock actually moved. for a second i thought something was really out of calibration on my kapex  ??? ;D.

thanks cheese for your insight [laughing]
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212