Author Topic: 32mm system for drawer boxes  (Read 1544 times)

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Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2016
32mm system for drawer boxes
« on: June 26, 2020, 01:28 PM »
I'm planning a closet project using French cleats to support 16" nominal vertical panels with 32mm system holes. So far the plan is to hang 48" panels every 24-30" with a deeper top shelf (24" or so) for our seasonal stuff stored in bins. We have 9' ceiling so the top of the vertical panels will be about 90" or so.

We'll have some shelves mixed in with closet bars but also thinking of running some vertical panels to the floor or adding some 20"-ish deep lower panels for drawers. Still not sure.

I have info on several 32mm systems and I'll lay out the panels for standard drawer hardware, probably KV 8400 or similar.

My question is if there is a simple system or standard for height of drawer boxes and location of the side-mounted glides? Appreciate any thoughts or guidance.

RMW

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

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Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3964
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2020, 07:22 PM »
@Richard/RMW, take a look at the documents I've attached.  There is guidance on drawers in them.   There's another document that the FOG won't let me upload for some reason.  PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you.  [smile] 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 07:25 PM by Sparktrician »
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 738
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2020, 09:49 PM »
@Richard/RMW I'm dealing with this as well. Trying to maximize drawer boxes in my cabinets using Blum slides and 32mm system holes and it's a bit confusing. I think you just have to try your best for clearances and leave some room. Let me know of you discover something.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2825
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2020, 10:40 PM »
You might want to consider going to 16mm spacing.  Just shift your LR-32 by 16mm and make more holes.  That’s what I do with the Festool drawers to give me more flexibility on spacing. 

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2016
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2020, 07:41 AM »
I've dabbled with both Process32 and KISS systems, even got some 3d printed stops for the Blum system. I'll review the guidelines more carefully but I don't recall a simple formula for drawer box sizing.

In KISS there is drawer face formula that is something like "increments of 32mm minus Xmm" that is simple enough I could wrap my DIY mind around it. I'm looking for a system where there is a set gap at the bottom for the first box, then each box is a 32mm increment less XXmm and each side mount glide is set at YYmm above box bottom.

Blum's system seems tailered to fit their hardware,I've never figured out any other rationale for their first hole position. I'll probably start with KISS to keep it simple (duh) then come up with my own formula. Excel is your friend...

Thanks all.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 738
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2020, 10:22 AM »
@Richard/RMW

I'm actually making my drawer boxes today for my 640mm outside height boxes that were bored with 32mm holes starting with 16mm offsets. I tried to do the math for what size boxes I could get away with and it was hurting my head so here's what I did:

I have a test box that's not quite as tall I think I did it using Process 32 manual for the desk. It has the 46.5 offset at the bottom using the same stop you probably have. I abandoned that system when I made my base cabinets because it's too hard for me to keep unbalanced panels straight in my head and I made mistakes doing just the one box. Anyway, it's still useful.

I put a slide at the bottom, mounted a 6" box to it, rested a 6mm domino on top because that's what Blum calls for clearance above the box and put another slide on that. Then I looked at the next hole I could use to still fit a 3/4" or 18mm rail across the cabinet. Mounted the slide to the hole that made sense. Rinse and repeat to see if I could fit (in my case) three 6" boxes while still allowing for the clearances I figured I'd need. Counted the holes of those slides and transferred over to my actual box and it seems to have worked out. I put the first slide in, counted up 7 holes (since I used the bottom hole in my slide for the bottom slide) and put another slide. Counted up 6 holes and put the third slide. For my setup if I were to do a tall closet like you're doing I think I could just keep going up 6 holes and mounting a slide for my 6" drawer boxes and be good to go until I got near the top of the box then you'd have to start looking at clearances again.







The Process 32 system didn't have an example with three 6" drawer sides. But I knew if the slides fit in their box for a Desk and my box is 32mm or so taller then I'd be good to go. It's all a bit trial and error and I think the best thing to do is make a practice box and go from there.

Matt
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 10:26 AM by DynaGlide »
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2016
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2020, 12:55 PM »
@DynaGlide Matt you made me laugh... "I tried to do the math for what size boxes I could get away with and it was hurting my head". I thought it was just me who started drooling about 20 minutes into this endeavor.  [big grin]

Given my situation has more flexibility I'm probably as usual just over thinking it. I was also informed today that the project start date may be delayed until fall, happened just after I tried to hug the boss after spending 2 humid hours on a small welding project. She likes to point out my age experience level and stamina leisurely approach to project timelines.

At this point figuring out a danged repeatable system is mostly a matter of stubborness. I'm going to mock something up in sketchup and I'll post the results.

Thanks,

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 738
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2020, 01:42 PM »
All A's up to Calc 4 in College and a degree in Electrical Engineering you'd think a dummy like me could come up some simple box calculations. Apparently not. I'm wishing I didn't scoff at the pricing of drawer side material right about now. I'm not even half way through edge banding the sides and regretting being cheap.

I just looked. I think I save like $40 by buying a sheet of 1/2" prefinished. .next time I'm buying the darn sides ready to go.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 01:44 PM by DynaGlide »
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2016
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2020, 02:47 PM »
I know, last project I ordered 4 drawers for $200 prefinished ply dowels joints, glue clamp done. Boss insisted I'd make a career of it otherwise and for once I didn't argue.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline morts10n

  • Posts: 253
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2020, 02:57 PM »
It is immensely easier to layout drawers and slides if you stop worrying about making each drawer the maximum height possible. A great majority of things stored in drawers would still fit in a drawer if it were 1" or 2" shorter.

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2016
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2020, 06:35 PM »
It is immensely easier to layout drawers and slides if you stop worrying about making each drawer the maximum height possible. A great majority of things stored in drawers would still fit in a drawer if it were 1" or 2" shorter.

That's a great point. Another question I have to resolve is what is an acceptable gap or spacing between drawers.

I have some shop drawers I made too short (major gap to the next drawer) and stuff gets caught up in them. This probably depends on what the drawer is used for.

Reflecting on this I think one of my dilemmas is actually how to size the drawer fronts to make the "system" easy for DIY.

Thanks.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1888
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2020, 07:34 PM »
It is immensely easier to layout drawers and slides if you stop worrying about making each drawer the maximum height possible. A great majority of things stored in drawers would still fit in a drawer if it were 1" or 2" shorter.

Nope. I have a theory about drawers and I think it is a universal law.  No matter how deep you make drawers they will be too shallow. I do agree the majority of things will fit in shallower drawers. It’s the minority of things that stick up and catch that drive me crazy. The worst are items one puts in carefully so they won’t catch and then, after you close the drawer, decide of their own volition to stand up so they can grab the brass ring when you next open the drawer.

The other issue I have is that my wife believes she can keep the world’s landfills free of plastic grocery bags by collecting the world’s supply in one of our drawers. Every week or so the drawer will refuse to close properly and I will remove it to get at 4 billion plastic bags that have fallen over the back end.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3964
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2020, 07:39 PM »
The other issue I have is that my wife believes she can keep the world’s landfills free of plastic grocery bags by collecting the world’s supply in one of our drawers. Every week or so the drawer will refuse to close properly and I will remove it to get at 4 billion plastic bags that have fallen over the back end.

May be time for a surreptitious "culling of the herd"...   [big grin]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1888
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2020, 07:46 PM »
The other issue I have is that my wife believes she can keep the world’s landfills free of plastic grocery bags by collecting the world’s supply in one of our drawers. Every week or so the drawer will refuse to close properly and I will remove it to get at 4 billion plastic bags that have fallen over the back end.

May be time for a surreptitious "culling of the herd"...   [big grin]
The other issue I have is that my wife believes she can keep the world’s landfills free of plastic grocery bags by collecting the world’s supply in one of our drawers. Every week or so the drawer will refuse to close properly and I will remove it to get at 4 billion plastic bags that have fallen over the back end.

May be time for a surreptitious "culling of the herd"...   [big grin]

I cull the surreptitiously cull the herd quite often. Anyone else experience this?
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3964
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2020, 08:15 PM »
@DynaGlide and @Richard/RMW, I've been going through my notes and found the process I have used in the past for figuring drawer face heights.  See if this helps.   [smile]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline jasen

  • Posts: 48
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2020, 11:32 PM »
@DynaGlide  and others using Blum products.

I use the free Dynaplan software: Using your example (I used 16mm by mistake and made some guesses) but hopefully you get the gist.

Basically input your cab dimensions and material thickness, then tell how many drawers and what system you are using (choice of 5)
and then it will give you the information that you need.

In your case I input the carcass dimensions and how many drawers and then the program calculates exact measurements.
The program is inututive IF you are familiar with System 32 and even more so if you're familiar with Blum products

HTH
Cheers317303-1

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 738
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2020, 09:21 AM »
@jasen

Thank you for posting that. I do use that software for general ideas. I run into issues when I try to do certain things. Like when I put my exact box dimensions in it would only let me drawers go up to 145mm.

The other thing is does it allow you to set your own offset for the 32mm holes? If it does then maybe I need to revisit it. I know the last time I messed with it I was struggling to find an option to let me work with say 16mm end stops on a balanced panel.

But it is a beautiful program for visualizing and getting close to what I'm planning. The really cool feature is being able to export to SketchUp a full on CAD model with all the holes, doors, etc.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2016
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2020, 12:58 PM »
@DynaGlide and @Richard/RMW, I've been going through my notes and found the process I have used in the past for figuring drawer face heights.  See if this helps.   [smile]

Willie you clearly missed my comment about drool-inducing measurement/calculations... [poke]  [blink]

Thank you, I'll pour a beverage and try to absorb the information.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3964
Re: 32mm system for drawer boxes
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2020, 02:25 PM »
@DynaGlide and @Richard/RMW, I've been going through my notes and found the process I have used in the past for figuring drawer face heights.  See if this helps.   [smile]

Willie you clearly missed my comment about drool-inducing measurement/calculations... [poke]  [blink]

Thank you, I'll pour a beverage and try to absorb the information.

RMW


OK, Richard.  Put on a fresh shower curtain and step out smartly.   [big grin]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young