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Offline 4nthony

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Whole house surge protectors
« on: July 14, 2022, 03:18 PM »
I've got my 200A panel upgrade scheduled for next Wednesday and I've been looking to add a whole house surge protector with the new panel. I was curious if anyone here on FOG has one and if so, which one are you using?

The Siemens FS140 gets good reviews but there's really low inventory and some pretty high markups with ship dates being a few weeks out.

Leviton has a broad range but I don't know what I'd need.

I asked my electrician for a suggestion and he said he's installed a few but it's not something he usually gets asked to about and didn't have any specific models to suggest.

Any sparky's here that can offer up a suggestion or two?

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Offline JimH2

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Re: Whole house surge protectors
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2022, 03:35 PM »
Not an expert on this, but I do remember my electric Coop offering these as a part of the meter base or it went in the meter base. I think it was a few dollars a month, but they replaced it if it is destroyed.
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Offline jonnyrocket

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Re: Whole house surge protectors
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2022, 04:05 PM »
I did some research last year when I replaced my service and electrical panels.
In the USA, there are two different styles readily available.
1-Those that are plug in devices that consume 2 spaces in the electrical panel next to your breakers, and as such it would need to be UL approved for your panel, which I believe limits you to the same brand as the panel.
2-Those that come with attached wires for wiring into a breaker. This allows you to choose any brand you want but they attach to the side or bottom of the panel.

I have one of the plug-on type devices in each of the electrical panels in my system. Which includes 2 inside the house, and one inside the garage. On the outside of my house, at my service disconnect, I installed the largest rated unit I could find, and it mounts to the underside of the box. I also have one mounted at the electrical disconnect for my heat pump/AC Condenser unit.

Why so many? They each serve different purposes. The ones in the panels, are there to stop the spikes that occur inside my house when motors turn on or off (fridge, vacuum, microwave, shop tools, etc) from getting to the Arc Fault and GFCi breakers that are inside my panels. If you look at the fine print from the manufactures, they HIGHLY recommend them anytime you have any breaker that contains electronics. In fact the 2020 NEC code requires that each house has at least one.

The one at the AC is there to suppress the spikes from that specific device since it’s the largest motor in the house, and these devices work best when they are as close as possible to the source of the spike.

The big unit at the combined Service panel is there to keep spikes on the main utility lines from getting into my house.

So first figure out what you want them to do, and then figure out which makes the most sense. 
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Offline Bob D.

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Re: Whole house surge protectors
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2022, 04:09 PM »
I have a GenerLink transfer switch which has a whole house surge protector built in.

The GenerLink lets you connect your generator to your house with one simple connection and disconnect from the grid at teh same time, so no risk of back-feeding the grid.

The surge protector works all the time not just when running off the generator. The GenerLink mounts in your meter socket behind the meter. I did not have to get a permit for the install as the Utility did the work. They pulled the meter, installed the GenerLink and installed a locking collar on it, then re-installed the meter into the GenerLink. Done. No inspection, no permit, no charge.

Now when I plug in my generator the house is automatically disconnected form the grid. I can power whatever I want in my house within the limits of my Generator and the GenerLink which for my model is 30A. I believe they have a 40A model now. I've had it for over 10 years. It costs me $650 shipped to my door and As I said I paid nothing for the install because the Utility did it and it's on their side of the meter so electrician not required.

I don't know what a surge protector runs today plus the cost to install and the permit/inspection, but will be less than $650 and let you power your house in an emergency? And unlike a transfer switch hard-wired to your panel which will cost way more you can take this with you when you move because it's a simple unplug and go.

So maybe consider the GenerLink if you don't have a generator setup already.
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Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Whole house surge protectors
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2022, 05:19 PM »
Quote from: Bob D. on July 14, 2022, 04:09 PM
I have a GenerLink transfer switch which has a whole house surge protector built in.

The GenerLink lets you connect your generator to your house with one simple connection and disconnect from the grid at teh same time, so no risk of back-feeding the grid.

The surge protector works all the time not just when running off the generator. The GenerLink mounts in your meter socket behind the meter. I did not have to get a permit for the install as the Utility did the work. They pulled the meter, installed the GenerLink and installed a locking collar on it, then re-installed the meter into the GenerLink. Done. No inspection, no permit, no charge.

Now when I plug in my generator the house is automatically disconnected form the grid. I can power whatever I want in my house within the limits of my Generator and the GenerLink which for my model is 30A. I believe they have a 40A model now. I've had it for over 10 years. It costs me $650 shipped to my door and As I said I paid nothing for the install because the Utility did it and it's on their side of the meter so electrician not required.

I don't know what a surge protector runs today plus the cost to install and the permit/inspection, but will be less than $650 and let you power your house in an emergency? And unlike a transfer switch hard-wired to your panel which will cost way more you can take this with you when you move because it's a simple unplug and go.

So maybe consider the GenerLink if you don't have a generator setup already.

Dang, wished I'd known about that last year when I installed the bloody transfer switch next to my main panel. Haven't sworn that much in quite a few jobs.

Only problem would have been the service location relative to where I can keep the generator. My most likely use case is tropical storm conditions (w/ some flooding) and the service is at the front of the house near our drive, a low spot.

@Bob D. are you on AC Electric?

RMW
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Offline Doug H

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Re: Whole house surge protectors
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2022, 05:20 PM »
I installed a Siemens FS100 in my home 2 years ago and haven't experienced any problems.  It has definitely gone up in price since 2020.

Doug
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Offline festal

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Re: Whole house surge protectors
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2022, 05:32 PM »
I have the generac model.  My old house got hit by lightning when I was away. Decent amount of damage to the electronics and central ac

Installed it right after




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Offline Sparktrician

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Re: Whole house surge protectors
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2022, 05:37 PM »
I have a Square D HEPD80 in my "WOW Memorial Powertainer", and a SY-COM SYC-120/240TC on the main panel in my home.  Both have done well for me.  One thing to consider is adding a comparable surge suppressor to any communications cabling (Ethernet and/or coax) as part of your protection plan.  Several years ago there was a lightning strike to a street light pole in front of my house.  My main surge suppressor did its job well, but two routers, two switches, one TV and one DVD player were toasted.  Turns out that the common link was the Ethernet connection from my then-primary router to my in-house networks.  The primary router was being fed via fiber optic cable from the Verizon box ten feet from the pole that got hit.  Fiber optic connections are non-conductive, but the fiber optic cable has a copper ground wire inside the sheath for bonding to the house's cold water ground.  The Verizon NID (Network Interface Device - changes fiber optic connectivity to coax or Ethernet) was supposed to have been grounded to cold water ground, but was erroneously grounded to a nearby receptacle.  The suspicion is that the surge came in via the ground wire from the Verizon distribution box to the NID, and traveled through the NID to the Verizon primary router via coax.  It was then distributed to my networks via the Ethernet connection from the primary router.  Since then, I have installed a Ubiquiti Ethernet Surge Suppressor on the Ethernet port from the NID to my own edge router.  The Verizon router was replaced and the NID's interface was switched from coax to Ethernet right after the lightning strike.  I also replaced and rerouted the ground wire to the house's cold water ground by running a 10 gauge copper ground wire from the NID to the cold water ground.  Since that time, there have been a couple of lightning strikes nearby, with no adverse effects on my networks. 

Sorry for being so long-winded...   [smile]
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 05:40 PM by Sparktrician »
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Offline Bob D.

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Re: Whole house surge protectors
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2022, 10:04 PM »
"@Bob D. are you on AC Electric?"

Yes, ACE is our Utility. I was the first person to get the GenerLink in ACE territory.
I had to send the unit to ACE in Mays Landing to the engineer who I had been talking to about installing it so they could test it.
They kept it for a week or two then he called to say they were coming out to install it.

He told me after they completed testing he ordered one for his house. My BIL got #3 installed at his place. I have no idea how many have been installed since then.

I first found out about the GenerLink when I was working for ConED at Indian Point. A rep from GenerLink had come in to the plant to talk to some of the engineers about it and to demo the device. GenerLink has no connection with Generac for anyone wondering.

That was late 90s. A few years later when I bought a generator for our house is when I looked into getting one. So maybe it's been more like 15 years it's been installed. Still works I use it when the power goes out from storms and also a couple months ago when an underground fault caused our whole block us to lose power and it was almost 5 hours before they had it repaired.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 11:10 PM by Bob D. »
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Offline 4nthony

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Re: Whole house surge protectors
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2022, 12:00 AM »
Thanks guys for the feedback. I'm curious though. Based on this map from Siemens, they're recommending their lowest capacity SPD for my region:



The map is based on thunderstorm frequency. Is this sufficient by itself, or do other factors contribute to surges like brownouts and random outages? I was looking at the 140 for it's high capacity but maybe it's not necessary where I live.

@Sparktrician Your SYCOM is rated for 150. Based on the map, Virginia looks to be near the border between what Siemens is calling "Plus" and "Pro" so the higher capacity would be warranted even for a "just in case" scenario. Not sure if you know this but there's been a recall of the SYCOM:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/public-notice-ul-reissues-warning-of-potentially-hazardous-surge-protectors-300872213.html
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Offline Sparktrician

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Re: Whole house surge protectors
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2022, 06:43 AM »
Quote from: 4nthony on July 15, 2022, 12:00 AM
@Sparktrician Your SYCOM is rated for 150. Based on the map, Virginia looks to be near the border between what Siemens is calling "Plus" and "Pro" so the higher capacity would be warranted even for a "just in case" scenario. Not sure if you know this but there's been a recall of the SYCOM:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/public-notice-ul-reissues-warning-of-potentially-hazardous-surge-protectors-300872213.html

@4nthony, I'm solidly in the "Plus" zone.  Thanks for the heads-up on the SY-COM unit.  I was unaware of the recall.  Looks like I have yet another project to accomplish, and soon.   [smile]
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- Willy -

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Offline dwillis

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Re: Whole house surge protectors
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2022, 01:12 PM »
When I built and wired my house recently I have two 200 amp sub-panels from SquareD (one serves the house, the other the garage and workshop). In each sub-panel I installed a SquareD HOM250PSPD Whole Home Surge Protection Device. It's basically a plug in module that takes up two spaces in the panel. After several years of operating I have no complaints. Like you I'm in the "Power" zone according to the map (Pacific Northwest). My decision to install the device was as cheap insurance.

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Offline Mr_Mod

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Re: Whole house surge protectors
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2022, 06:28 AM »
We have been using Citel at work for a number of years. They do everything from small single devices upto large power centres.
They are worth checking out
https://citel.us/en
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