Author Topic: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly  (Read 11758 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TheHobbyist

  • Posts: 3
I'm new to home renovation so bear with me.  I have both an RO 125 and RO 90.   My wife tasked me with sanding the stair risers and stringer sides.  Both the riser and stringers are painted with exposed hardwood treads.  I am not sanding the treads...yet.

I used Cristal P80 sandpaper and am going through it much too quickly.  As I put on a new pad it's removing the paint fairly quickly.  However, before I even finish the riser it seems to almost stop removing the paint.  I don't know if I'm using the wrong paper, grit, misusing the sander or what.   Bottom line, one pad doesn't even seem to finish a single riser.  Just in case you ask, I can't tell how many coats of paint were on these stairs nor type of paint.

Should I use a different paper type (e.g. Brilliant2 or Granat)?   What about the grit number?   I'd also appreciate feedback on how I might be using the RO 125 incorrectly on a vertical surface.  Keep in mind it's somewhat constrained space as the RO 125 is so large I have maybe a 1" clearance beyond the diameter of the sander when placed at top of bottom tread measured to bottom of upper tread.

I have the RO 125 connected to a CT26 with vacuum set to about 50%.  I've tried the RO 125 at speeds varying from 2 to 5.

Would appreciate any professional help!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7363
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2013, 08:47 PM »
I can tell you what you are doing is challenging.  The problem you are running into is the paint melts and sticks to the abrasive rendering it useless in short order.  You can mitigate this problem but not eliminate it.  As you know sanding causes heat, so you need to reduce the heat by slowing down the speed of the sander (maybe speed 4 on the dial) and keep the sander moving.  If you hold the sander in one place it heats up quickly and melts the paint.  By keeping the sander moving you never overheat any one place to melt the paint.  Well, that's the theory anyhow but it doesn't work nearly as well in practice.  You can try the Granat abrasive and/or a coarser abrasive.   
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6061
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2013, 10:09 PM »
Try Granat 40 or 60.  As Brice said,  the paper is clogging.

Tom

Offline Baartman

  • Posts: 26
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2013, 12:15 AM »
Use a paint scraper first and get the majority off first. Then use power tools.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 12:22 AM by Baartman »

Offline fuzzy logic

  • Posts: 339
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2013, 03:23 AM »
+1 to what Brice said.
Ok on large areas, but on such a small area a bit questionable with the RO125.
What about trying the RO90??  Would have thought that might be satisfactory.

Also, rather than concentrating on 'finishing' one area in one go, move from, say, one side to the other fairly frequently - giving the paint, and the abrasive surface a chance to cool down.

Agree with Baartman - I'm using scrapers more and more - but get good ones.

Richard.

(edit:  also agree with tjbnwi - try 60 first, and see how it goes.  Gently does it though, as we don't know how thick paint is, what type etc.)

« Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 03:29 AM by fuzzy logic »
Decent people do the right thing - always?

Offline farms100

  • Posts: 133
    • please visit our woodworking guild
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2013, 08:31 AM »
baartman is right on, A scraper will make very fast work of it. be careful of the blade corners so you don't dig in.

keep a file handy and when it stops cutting well, give the edge a few swipes with the file. (leave the burr on the inside)

a heat gun would work as well, but be careful.
eastern mass guild of woodworkers. http://www.emgw.org

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1866
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2013, 09:16 AM »
baartman is right on, A scraper will make very fast work of it. be careful of the blade corners so you don't dig in.

keep a file handy and when it stops cutting well, give the edge a few swipes with the file. (leave the burr on the inside)
a heat gun would work as well, but be careful.


Better yet, get a carbide scraper. You do't need to remove all of the paint with the scraper. It seems to me that the paint layers over older paint are the worst. Onces you get down to the first layer it isn't so bad clogging the paper.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2013, 09:57 AM »
Another, slightly more expensive option  [big grin].

http://www.eco-strip.com/ProdStripper.html

I've been using one to remove paint on 90 year old trim.  20 seconds on a section and a quick scrape removes everything down to the wood.

Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3312
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2013, 11:03 AM »
i would reconmend the bahco carbide scrapers.
they last ages . i think iv went through 3 sets in about 5 years or ocasional heavy use

then hit it with the sander. i would start with 60 grit or 40 grit if you are repainting. granat is great, it lasts way loonger than rubin and brilliant
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6077
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2013, 11:34 AM »
A lot of people recommend a paint scraper, and those certainly have a very prominent place in the paint removal business, but I don't get one thing. Is paint that soft in America that you can just scrape it away? Because over here you would first have to heat the paint up with a burner, a hot air gun or an infrared lamp. Putting a scraper on a good layer of paint here would be a pretty futile act unless you go all ninja on it and destroy the wood underneath along with it.


Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1866
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2013, 12:14 PM »
A lot of people recommend a paint scraper, and those certainly have a very prominent place in the paint removal business, but I don't get one thing. Is paint that soft in America that you can just scrape it away? Because over here you would first have to heat the paint up with a burner, a hot air gun or an infrared lamp. Putting a scraper on a good layer of paint here would be a pretty futile act unless you go all ninja on it and destroy the wood underneath along with it.



It is not all that soft, it is still work. But then again, Alex, some of your paint may have had a thousand years to cure.  [poke]
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2013, 01:03 PM »
A lot of people recommend a paint scraper, and those certainly have a very prominent place in the paint removal business, but I don't get one thing. Is paint that soft in America that you can just scrape it away? Because over here you would first have to heat the paint up with a burner, a hot air gun or an infrared lamp. Putting a scraper on a good layer of paint here would be a pretty futile act unless you go all ninja on it and destroy the wood underneath along with it.


. Maybe we used more Latex paint instead of Oil based? [wink]
At any rate, you have now planted the mental picture of a Paint Ninja, dressed in black, attacking a floor with a scraper instead of a sword. [big grin] Maybe Brice can do a video of THAT..
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3312
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2013, 01:07 PM »
the scaper will only work if there are several layers of paint. if its a fairly new stairs with only one coat on it then the scraper will be useless and maybe do harm
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline Baartman

  • Posts: 26
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2013, 03:09 PM »
Alex, I just came from a visit to Europe, where I visited the Netherlands. We stayed at a friends house in Utrecht, who are in the process of fixing up their own place themselves. I noticed the interior woodwork was a painted finish, and I asked if they had paid a professional painter. They said they did it themselves with a brush and roller! I was stunned, the finish they were able no achieve would require a pro in Canada. I started to notice this all over the Netherlands, I'm convinced that Europe has way better paint than NA.

Offline farms100

  • Posts: 133
    • please visit our woodworking guild
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2013, 03:14 PM »
Alex, I just came from a visit to Europe, where I visited the Netherlands. We stayed at a friends house in Utrecht, who are in the process of fixing up their own place themselves. I noticed the interior woodwork was a painted finish, and I asked if they had paid a professional painter. They said they did it themselves with a brush and roller! I was stunned, the finish they were able no achieve would require a pro in Canada. I started to notice this all over the Netherlands, I'm convinced that Europe has way better paint than NA.

With the good surface prep, the right paint, and right brush and average skill you can do an excellent job.
eastern mass guild of woodworkers. http://www.emgw.org

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7363
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2013, 04:22 PM »
Alex, I just came from a visit to Europe, where I visited the Netherlands. We stayed at a friends house in Utrecht, who are in the process of fixing up their own place themselves. I noticed the interior woodwork was a painted finish, and I asked if they had paid a professional painter. They said they did it themselves with a brush and roller! I was stunned, the finish they were able no achieve would require a pro in Canada. I started to notice this all over the Netherlands, I'm convinced that Europe has way better paint than NA.

With the good surface prep, the right paint, and right brush and average skill you can do an excellent job.

Yep, any old bum can paint, just ask Scott B. [tongue] [big grin]
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8908
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2013, 04:30 PM »
I concur with many of the suggestions made. Try speed 4 , keep it moving, use 40gr Cristal for the initial removal, and try the RO90 in the small spaces so that you can move it around more. The hard pad can be helpful with this type of removal.


Seth

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6077
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2013, 06:18 PM »
Alex, I just came from a visit to Europe, where I visited the Netherlands. We stayed at a friends house in Utrecht, who are in the process of fixing up their own place themselves. I noticed the interior woodwork was a painted finish, and I asked if they had paid a professional painter. They said they did it themselves with a brush and roller! I was stunned, the finish they were able no achieve would require a pro in Canada. I started to notice this all over the Netherlands, I'm convinced that Europe has way better paint than NA.

With the good surface prep, the right paint, and right brush and average skill you can do an excellent job.

Yep, any old bum can paint, just ask Scott B. [tongue] [big grin]

There are many people who can paint. It's not rocket science. But there are also many people who can't. I know hobbyists who have redecorated their entire home, carpentry, plumbing, painting etc, on a professional level and then there are people who don't even know how to get a nail in.

As for the quality of paint, I'm starting to suspect there is a difference between American paint and the paint we have over here (at least in The Netherlands). Good paint here is very expensive, a good quality paint starts at 40 euro per liter (about 150 euro per US gallon) and has a yield of about 12 square meters. Painting those large wooden houses you have in the States with such paint would cost a fortune, so I understand you might use cheaper alternatives.

What's a common price for paint in the US?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 06:20 PM by Alex »

Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2013, 06:26 PM »
Lots of good advice on the how to here. A few things to add, if your house was built before the 80s and sometimes even after, it may contain lead based paint. When you sand it and scape it you can absorb the dust, and also spread it around for other members in your family to absorb. ( Caution !! lead dust is especially harmful to children) Its always a good idea to test paint before disturbing it, always use dust collection and wear a mask, and wash up thoroughly after each session, yourself- and the workplace. For more on this       http://www2.epa.gov/lead/renovation-repair-and-painting-program

Mike
"The only lessons I've learned worth remembering, were when things weren't going well"

"Who is John Galt?"

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7363
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2013, 06:49 PM »
Alex, $30-$50 USD a gallon.   
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Scott Burt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 1995
  • painter/writer/educator
    • Prep to Finish
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2013, 06:52 PM »
Yep, any old bum can paint, just ask Scott B. [tongue] [big grin][/quote]

There is some truth in these words...we have been advertising to hire painters this spring, and it is comical to read the resumes that come in.

The analogy I use is to musical instruments...the guitar is one of the easiest instruments to learn, but one of the most difficult to master. Painting is kind of like that. If you know 3 chords you can strum a bunch of tunes.

Offline Motown

  • Posts: 200
Re: Refurbishing stairs - going through sanding paper too quickly
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2013, 02:34 AM »
I am in the middle of a large project that involves removing paint from window casing, crown and baseboard for a 1925 English Tudor. While I highly recommend the Speedheater (link included in another post, it may be overkill for risers and difficult to remove paint in tight spots given its size. That said, for siding, baseboard, etc its worth its weight in gold.

Regarding scrapers, I purchased a number of different brands but found Bahco to be the best quality and they sell different profiles/shapes: http://www.amazon.com/Bahco-625XXX-Premium-Ergonomic-Carbide/dp/B000288LOW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369117059&sr=8-1&keywords=Bahco+Ergo+Pocket+Scraper

I think Alex makes a good point about using scrapers and in my experience scrapers without heat increases the workload and the risk of damaging the wood. Using a smaller heat gun might be more effective in small places.  http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1942-14-3-Amp-Heat/dp/B00002246F/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1369117416&sr=1-1&keywords=bosch+heat+gun

For my sanding I am using my trusty RO 90, LS 130 and ETS 125.

I second the comments about Lead Paint especially as you are indoors. Good luck, would love to see some photos when you are done.

Motown