Author Topic: R0 90 for stripping paint?  (Read 17703 times)

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Offline erock

  • Posts: 1254
Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2013, 10:06 PM »
In the interest of time:

1. Don't use Behr

2. When we say "paint right over", we should really be saying "prime right over"

3. Anything that you do in the cracks should happen after primer and a light sanding. Wood putty is actually not amongst the first choices of a painter because it is not flexible enough. If the cracks are hairline, wipe in a shot of DAP ALEX Plus (after primer and light sanding and prior to finish coat application).

This is just my opinion, as a professional painter.

1. Curious what exterior paints do you prefer?

Depends on the application.

My company has had very good luck with SW Duration, BM Aura and MoorGlo for trim paints. SW Woodscapes, BM Arborcoat and Cabot ProVt for siding that requires pigment. Cabot 3000 is a go to for natural siding, such as cedar. On my own house, I did Cabot "The Finish" acrylic solid stain on the siding, and BM Moorglo for trim and it has done very well.




Hold on, I thought the running joke was.....A plumbers sink always leaks.  A roofers roof needs fixed.  A landscapers grass is never cut. A electricians lights

never work and a painters house needs painted.       So you mean to tell me you actually painted your house?   [tongue]  [big grin]  [poke]

So you're not staying true to your trade.   [tongue]


Eric

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6068
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2013, 10:32 PM »
Look at West Systems Epoxy for the filler.

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/

Tom

Offline aptpupil

  • Posts: 65
Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2013, 10:58 PM »
Try this:
http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=228

For best results I like to prime, fill gaps and holes with either a good caulk (where you need flex) or MH ready patch. Then prime again over the spots that were filled and paint with two coats of your favorite paint (not Behr).

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1986
Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2013, 11:03 PM »
In the interest of time:

1. Don't use Behr
.
.
.
This is just my opinion, as a professional painter.
1. Curious what exterior paints do you prefer?
Depends on the application.

My company has had very good luck with SW Duration, BM Aura and MoorGlo for trim paints. SW Woodscapes, BM Arborcoat and Cabot ProVt for siding that requires pigment. Cabot 3000 is a go to for natural siding, such as cedar. On my own house, I did Cabot "The Finish" acrylic solid stain on the siding, and BM Moorglo for trim and it has done very well.
Thanks. So what about Behr makes you call it out specifically as stuff to avoid? I've used it successfully on my own house inside and out, was I just lucky? My biggest problem with Behr has been their cans, probably 1/2 of my touch up cans developed rust inside at the rim. Also their primers don't seem to keep long term in the can, kinda lumped and don't reconstitute fully with stirring. The paint that has been a nightmare for me was valspar from Lowes, learned the hard way it is not a non-blocking product  [mad]. Not trying to start yet another paint war, I don't have a horse in that race, just trying to soak up knowledge.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 11:10 PM by Paul G »
+1

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6082
Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2013, 04:27 AM »

3. Anything that you do in the cracks should happen after primer and a light sanding. Wood putty is actually not amongst the first choices of a painter because it is not flexible enough. If the cracks are hairline, wipe in a shot of DAP ALEX Plus (after primer and light sanding and prior to finish coat application).

This is just my opinion, as a professional painter.

My son's name is Alex as well, so he thinks it is named after him too. And, like our FOG Alex, my son also speaks with great authority on lots of topics.  [big grin]

Alright, I notice a small jab at my credibility so it seems I'll have to explain myself a bit further.

I was going off this picture below. I wouldn't call that a hairline crack. I can put my fingers in there. That's some major woodrot you have there and that requires reconstruction. If Americans do it differently, my apologies, but over here, you do not reconstruct with flexible materials. First you remove all rotten wood, then treat it with a solution to stop wood rot and then use a 2 part filler or put in a new piece of wood entirely. Of course, American methods may vary.




I may not be a professional painter like Scott, but my understanding of flexible materials is that you use it to fill small cracks in places were you know wood will keep on moving. Like where wood meets a stone wall, or another piece of wood. I looked up Alex Dap Plus, and I see it's an acrylic caulking. Indeed, that's the flexible material you need for cracks. But not for major wood repair like in the picture above. You can't get a straight surface with acrylic calking. It will be all wibbly-wobbly. Somebody who would tackle the corner in the picture above with some caulking would be considered a very poor painter over here.


I know there are a myriad of products to treat wood with. Every one has a specific aplication and takes care of part of the problem. But for all of them, one thing is certain: they never last longer than a couple of years. Wood keeps on moving, sun keeps on shining and rain keeps on falling and they all want to -and will- destroy your work over time.  

- If the woodrot is over a large area, you cut it all away and put in a new piece of wood. Then over time, because the two pieces of wood expand at different rates, you'll see there's an insert. The edges wil crack and you'll have to repaint after a year or 3-5.

- If the woodrot is in a small area you fill it with a wood putty that becomes hard as a rock. You'll be able to sand it all flat and make it look like there was never a hole. Then over time, the edges will crack because of wood movement and you'll have to redo it again in 3-5 years.

- If you want to fill up cracks where two different parts or materials meet, you use a flexible material like acryclic caulking. Never for cracks bigger them 1 cm (about 3/8''). Never in the middle of a piece of wood because you will see a dimple. It looks ugly and dimples collect water that will cause problems. Then over time, the caulking will dry out, loose it's flexibility and the crack will appear again. So in 3-5 years, you can do it again.    
 
No measure short of ripping all trim out and renewing it will take care of woodrot forever.

Over here professional painters generally give a two year warranty on their outdoor work. Because they know that after that period, the elements will chew their work up. No matter which materials they used.
 
As stated above, American methods may be different. I'd like to hear how Scott repairs the corner above.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 05:41 AM by Alex »

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 12009
  • MacGyver - My boy 2010 - 2019 RIP
Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2013, 06:50 AM »
Alex,  I believe that you were being complimented.  You do have and share a great deal of knowledge on many different topics.

Thank you! [thumbs up]
Peter

Offline Scott Burt

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  • Posts: 1995
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Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2013, 11:19 AM »
Alex

Definitely not calling your credibility into question, I think your track record as a member shows that it needs not be questioned, so I apologize if you read my comment as questioning your expertise.

The rotted corner shown in the picture is definitely beyond a caulkable fix, and in my opinion the ideal solution would be replacement. Anything else is kind of a band aid.

When replacement is not an option and a temporary fix is desired, we do use West System or Bondo in some situations.

What makes this forum good is that everyone openly shares their opinions based on their experiences, and everyones experience is usually different, as well as regional product availability. In the end, best available product solutions usually drive process for me.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1986
Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2013, 04:38 PM »

Alright, I notice a small jab at my credibility so it seems I'll have to explain myself a bit further.


For what it's worth I didn't see it that way at all. I've been reading Scotts stuff for a while now and my impression is he'd only poke fun like that with someone he truly respects.
+1

Offline Scott Burt

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  • Posts: 1995
  • painter/writer/educator
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Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2013, 06:31 PM »
In the interest of time:

1. Don't use Behr
.
.
.
This is just my opinion, as a professional painter.
1. Curious what exterior paints do you prefer?
Depends on the application.

My company has had very good luck with SW Duration, BM Aura and MoorGlo for trim paints. SW Woodscapes, BM Arborcoat and Cabot ProVt for siding that requires pigment. Cabot 3000 is a go to for natural siding, such as cedar. On my own house, I did Cabot "The Finish" acrylic solid stain on the siding, and BM Moorglo for trim and it has done very well.
Thanks. So what about Behr makes you call it out specifically as stuff to avoid? I've used it successfully on my own house inside and out, was I just lucky? My biggest problem with Behr has been their cans, probably 1/2 of my touch up cans developed rust inside at the rim. Also their primers don't seem to keep long term in the can, kinda lumped and don't reconstitute fully with stirring. The paint that has been a nightmare for me was valspar from Lowes, learned the hard way it is not a non-blocking product  [mad]. Not trying to start yet another paint war, I don't have a horse in that race, just trying to soak up knowledge.

Hi Paul

I missed this earlier when I was posting...

My disdain for that brand (and there are a few others bearing the same brunt) is that I have been hired to strip and replace alot of coatings in my life, and that brand is in the top 2 all time that I have stripped. While I know that this is as much a reflection on the fact that it is the most popular diy brand as it is a reflection on inferior formulations, it leaves an impression. You learn alot about product characteristics when you strip it chemically or mechanically.

Which leads to the second reason I do not recommend their product...the marketing scheme of their top distributor has caused ridiculous confusion within the paint industry by suggesting that primer is no longer required in painting. Which, in turn causes a vicious cycle back to more product failures that need to be stripped.

These are just observations based on my experience. There are other products that I singularly and vocally do not recommend.

All that said, I do think that their current generation of interior paints are by far the best they have ever produced. However, they have gone from being the $11/gal brand right up to about $34, which puts them too close to the class of similarly priced quality paints, in my opinion.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 06:34 PM by Scott B. »

Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1854
  • NORFOLK,VA
Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2013, 08:36 PM »

2) What should I use to fill these giant cracks? Wood putty? Silicone?



BONDO!
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline Jeff Zanin

  • Posts: 230
Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2013, 08:47 PM »
I am a long way from a professional painter but in my limited experience the prep and primer are very important steps in obtaining a good result, and my own best results have been obtained using Killz and similar alkyd primers, even over surfaces with tobacco and other stains.

I have been skeptical about the "primer and paint in one" products that are heavily advertised and so have never tried them.  No doubt they save some effort and disruption, and I suspect they may look OK at first.

But it is good to hear from a pro that these are not suitable for good quality or long lasting results.

Jeff

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1986
Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2013, 08:50 PM »
Thanks Scott for the feedback on Behr, admitedly my experience with their products is much more on interiors which is on par with your impressions. As for exterior my Behr prime and paint job on stucco in sunny California is holding up going on 15 years, doubt that would be the case without doing all the necessary prep work. Can only imagine the stuff you've seen following people who are less diligent with the details.
+1

Offline Scott Burt

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  • Posts: 1995
  • painter/writer/educator
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Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2013, 08:57 PM »
Well here is the interesting part, guys.

Behr and KILZ are both brought to us by the same company, called Masterchem. Is it just me, or is it ironic to promote paint/primer in 1, and AT THE VERY SAME TIME, make what I consider to be one of the better interior primers in the business?

I mean, I understand distribution channels and all, but...

Just to show that I am not a total curmudgeon, here is what I have to say about KILZ MAX Primer.

 [big grin]

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: R0 90 for stripping paint?
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2013, 08:57 AM »

3. Anything that you do in the cracks should happen after primer and a light sanding. Wood putty is actually not amongst the first choices of a painter because it is not flexible enough. If the cracks are hairline, wipe in a shot of DAP ALEX Plus (after primer and light sanding and prior to finish coat application).

This is just my opinion, as a professional painter.

My son's name is Alex as well, so he thinks it is named after him too. And, like our FOG Alex, my son also speaks with great authority on lots of topics.  [big grin]

Alright, I notice a small jab at my credibility so it seems I'll have to explain myself a bit further.

I was going off this picture below. I wouldn't call that a hairline crack. I can put my fingers in there. That's some major woodrot you have there and that requires reconstruction. If Americans do it differently, my apologies, but over here, you do not reconstruct with flexible materials. First you remove all rotten wood, then treat it with a solution to stop wood rot and then use a 2 part filler or put in a new piece of wood entirely. Of course, American methods may vary.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]


I may not be a professional painter like Scott, but my understanding of flexible materials is that you use it to fill small cracks in places were you know wood will keep on moving. Like where wood meets a stone wall, or another piece of wood. I looked up Alex Dap Plus, and I see it's an acrylic caulking. Indeed, that's the flexible material you need for cracks. But not for major wood repair like in the picture above. You can't get a straight surface with acrylic calking. It will be all wibbly-wobbly. Somebody who would tackle the corner in the picture above with some caulking would be considered a very poor painter over here.


I know there are a myriad of products to treat wood with. Every one has a specific aplication and takes care of part of the problem. But for all of them, one thing is certain: they never last longer than a couple of years. Wood keeps on moving, sun keeps on shining and rain keeps on falling and they all want to -and will- destroy your work over time.  

- If the woodrot is over a large area, you cut it all away and put in a new piece of wood. Then over time, because the two pieces of wood expand at different rates, you'll see there's an insert. The edges wil crack and you'll have to repaint after a year or 3-5.

- If the woodrot is in a small area you fill it with a wood putty that becomes hard as a rock. You'll be able to sand it all flat and make it look like there was never a hole. Then over time, the edges will crack because of wood movement and you'll have to redo it again in 3-5 years.

- If you want to fill up cracks where two different parts or materials meet, you use a flexible material like acryclic caulking. Never for cracks bigger them 1 cm (about 3/8''). Never in the middle of a piece of wood because you will see a dimple. It looks ugly and dimples collect water that will cause problems. Then over time, the caulking will dry out, loose it's flexibility and the crack will appear again. So in 3-5 years, you can do it again.    
 
No measure short of ripping all trim out and renewing it will take care of woodrot forever.

Over here professional painters generally give a two year warranty on their outdoor work. Because they know that after that period, the elements will chew their work up. No matter which materials they used.
 
As stated above, American methods may be different. I'd like to hear how Scott repairs the corner above.
  My 'American' method   [wink]  for the wood in the picture would be to use a two part kit from Abatron if the wood isn't too far gone. Liquid Wood, [epoxy], injected into the 1/8" holes that I would drill around the wood and brushed on all surfaces. Then, with the epoxy still tacky, apply WoodEpox, which is the 'putty' like 2 part compound that you would push into and shape to the wood as needed. Sand once it's dry, prime, then paint.
 For exterior wood like this, I've had great success with it so far.  No fumes to speak of really with the WoodEpox 'putty'.  [cool]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....