Author Topic: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino  (Read 1959 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« on: April 16, 2021, 08:20 PM »
Hi there...

About to embark on building this shelving unit. Render below
It's 2395mm wide, 608mm tall, and 210mm deep, with a full-length 100mm tall French cleat running along the back behind the back panel.

I am planning on using 18mm baltic birch for the outside frame and vertical dividers, and 12mm baltic birch for the shelves. Shelves will be on pins, and I will be using the LR-32 system to do the shelf pin holes in the vertical parts. I am planning on using dominoes in the sides to hold the top and bottom between the sides so that the force isn't in line with the dominoes, but for the vertical supports, I wonder if these are going to be an issue if they are running vertically.

Will glue be strong enough to hold it all together? My gut says it will, but I don't want anything sagging or getting out of whack over time. The distance between the vertical parts is 278mm. Would it be better to use the router and create dadoes for these, or is the Domino going to be the way to line it all up and keep it nice?

Thanks for your expertise... Mid-level beginner here, and want to make something really useful and durable!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 03:59 AM by oberkorn »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline afish

  • Posts: 556
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2021, 08:31 PM »
Not sure what you are using for a back but if you do a solid back with something strong like RB @ 1/4" or better she aint going to go anywhere.  Just tie the top/bottom pieces to the vertical pieces with good fastners.

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2021, 08:48 PM »
Not sure what you are using for a back but if you do a solid back with something strong like RB @ 1/4" or better she aint going to go anywhere.  Just tie the top/bottom pieces to the vertical pieces with good fastners.
I was planning on slotting in a 6mm Baltic Birch plywood back panel, with the cleat behind that, but flush with the back of the unit. As for tying the top and bottom to the vertical pieces, that would be fine on top, but the bottom will be visible (it's being hung fairly high up on the wall) so I want to avoid seeing any fasteners at all. Maybe the cleat could be somewhat useful in weight distribution? Was planning on using dominoes to get it attached to the sides, but then screwing it in at the top in addition to the glue. Maybe I should also sink screws into the vertical pieces from the cleat?

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2771
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2021, 09:00 PM »
Dominoes will be suitable. I'll choose them over other fasteners/dadoes. If need be, you can nail (brad) the vertical pieces to the back. I'd use 6mm dominoes for everything, or if you prefer, 5mm for the verticals.

You can do the verticals as shelf pieces -- see the manual for the procedures. This is a dream application for the Domino connectors if it's a knock-down project.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 09:25 PM by ChuckM »

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2021, 09:13 PM »
The shelves will all be adjustable. If there were no shelves, this would just be a top, bottom, sides, back, and all of the vertical partitions. They need to be adjustable up/down, and in some sections, removable for taller items.

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2021, 09:14 PM »
I think I recognize those instructions from the supplemental manual. Love that document. So helpful.

Offline VirTERM

  • Posts: 104
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2021, 09:15 PM »
I used Festool connectors for my unit. It’s very solid and safe. Due to its size I didn’t really have any other options.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2771
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2021, 09:15 PM »
The shelves will all be adjustable. If there were no shelves, this would just be a top, bottom, sides, back, and all of the vertical partitions. They need to be adjustable up/down, and in some sections, removable for taller items.

Just updated my reply before I saw your latest post.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2771
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2021, 09:19 PM »
I used Festool connectors for my unit. It’s very solid and safe. Due to its size I didn’t really have any other options.
Problem is the connectors can only be used on 3/4" (18mm) stock or thicker, and the OP's vertical stock is under that.

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2021, 09:20 PM »
This also might be helpful for visualizing. The render doesn't really show the shelf pin holes very well, and it looks like it could be a solid cross-piece, which would surely be stronger.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2771
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2021, 09:22 PM »
This also might be helpful for visualizing. The render doesn't really show the shelf pin holes very well, and it looks like it could be a solid cross-piece, which would surely be stronger.

(Attachment Link)

I wish I had graphic design skill like that!

Edit on the domino size: Since your verticals are 12mm only, whether you use 5mm or 6mm, you'll need to shim up the verticals before mortising them because the cutter's center point is 10mm from the baseplate.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 09:27 PM by ChuckM »

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2021, 09:26 PM »
I used Festool connectors for my unit. It’s very solid and safe. Due to its size I didn’t really have any other options.

Very Mondrian!
Somewhat like my drawers that I made here:
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 03:58 AM by oberkorn »

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2021, 09:27 PM »
This also might be helpful for visualizing. The render doesn't really show the shelf pin holes very well, and it looks like it could be a solid cross-piece, which would surely be stronger.

(Attachment Link)

I wish I had graphic design skill like that!

LOL. I need it for 3D printing design... It just happens to really help for getting my head around construction for woodworking. Otherwise, I would be going in blind, and I don't have the confidence for that yet... Can't just "wing it." Baby steps!

Offline VirTERM

  • Posts: 104
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2021, 09:42 PM »


Very Mondrian!
Somewhat like my drawers that I made here:
[/quote]
Close enough :) it’s actually Rietvield’s style

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2021, 09:45 PM »


Very Mondrian!
Somewhat like my drawers that I made here:
Close enough :) it’s actually Rietvield’s style
[/quote]


LOL. I somehow didn't even notice the Rietvield chair in the photo. Oops!

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2021, 09:46 PM »


Very Mondrian!
Somewhat like my drawers that I made here:
Close enough :) it’s actually Rietvield’s style
[/quote]


My color scheme is actually based on the Eames Desk that I have in the same room... Same colors on the side panels.

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2021, 10:12 PM »
This also might be helpful for visualizing. The render doesn't really show the shelf pin holes very well, and it looks like it could be a solid cross-piece, which would surely be stronger.

(Attachment Link)

I wish I had graphic design skill like that!

Edit on the domino size: Since your verticals are 12mm only, whether you use 5mm or 6mm, you'll need to shim up the verticals before mortising them because the cutter's center point is 10mm from the baseplate.
The verticals will be 18mm. Just the adjustable shelves will be 12mm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2771
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2021, 07:30 AM »
In that case, the Domino process will be easy peacy.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 556
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2021, 06:27 PM »
 You could do a sliding dovetail where the vertical ties into the bottom just stop it short of the face a 1/2" or so.  This will lock the bottom to the verticals with no hardware and no chance of sagging.  Rabbit in the back so sides and bottom are tight to the wall.  If the wall is funky you can dado in the back and leave a small 1/4" -3/8 to scribe to the wall.  Not sure how your BB is but the stuff I get as face patches so not sure if thats the look you want but you might also consider some veneer on the outside then you can just glue and screw everything.   

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2021, 09:18 PM »
You could do a sliding dovetail where the vertical ties into the bottom just stop it short of the face a 1/2" or so.  This will lock the bottom to the verticals with no hardware and no chance of sagging.  Rabbit in the back so sides and bottom are tight to the wall.  If the wall is funky you can dado in the back and leave a small 1/4" -3/8 to scribe to the wall.  Not sure how your BB is but the stuff I get as face patches so not sure if thats the look you want but you might also consider some veneer on the outside then you can just glue and screw everything.

Like these? I kinda thought about it... maybe I should do it...

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2021, 09:24 PM »
I think the only issues with me doing dovetails is, I don't have a router table to cut the tongue halves of the dovetail.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 09:28 PM by oberkorn »

Offline afish

  • Posts: 556
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2021, 10:08 PM »
yes, like those.  You can do a stopped dado type so they dont show on the face edge.  you dont have to have a router table. it would make it easier but thats one of the good things about woodworking. theres always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.  you just need to make a jig to hold the vertical piece and provide support for the router when routing the end.

Offline oberkorn

  • Posts: 39
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2021, 07:56 PM »
yes, like those.  You can do a stopped dado type so they dont show on the face edge.  you dont have to have a router table. it would make it easier but thats one of the good things about woodworking. theres always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.  you just need to make a jig to hold the vertical piece and provide support for the router when routing the end.

Ah! I had forgotten about stopped dadoes... I have options :)

Offline afish

  • Posts: 556
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2021, 07:52 AM »
A simple jig like this will allow the sliding dovetail routing on the ends.  Note: is designed to go over the corner of a bench so only one gusset can be put on either side depending on if you are right or left handed. You do need to make sure the top and bottom of the jig are square to one another and the fence for the stock is square to the top.  You dont have to make the router fence adjustable if its just a one time use a few brad nails can hold it in place but I'm sure there will be a little trial and error to get the joint tight.  I would probably do my figuring and then cut a "block" to set the fence. Then make a test cut on some scrap if its off use the "block" and paper shims to fine tune the router guide fence. NOTE: the "block" should be the length of the router fence and parallel other wise you will end up with tapered tails if the router fence isnt parallel to the parts edge.   Good luck
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 07:57 AM by afish »

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 526
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2021, 08:25 AM »
Fast, easy and very strong would be through dowels. 

If you use 1/2" thick backer, then you can draw a center line for each shelf and drill through the backer into the uprights.  Then glue and tap in dowels from behind. Use 1-1/2" dowels and you will have an inch into the verticals and a half inch through the back. 

Nearly as strong and faster would be Confirmat screws into the uprights (or a combination of dowels and confirmats).

For the record, the 18mm boards will have 9mm end grain and 9mm face grain for any glue up.  So it will have slightly more glue strength than a 9mm solid wood board glued to a face grain.  Not bad, but not super strong.

Offline afish

  • Posts: 556
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2021, 10:49 AM »
The uprights and top arnt the issue its the bottom piece.  He doesnt want any exposed fasteners, as you will see them.  I would say same for the festool KD fittings.  If this was a closet or something then yea but I think its going to more exposed and having a 15mm hole with a plastic cover would be "unsightly" at least in my opinion.  If it had doors then OK but not as an open display cabinet.  Some may be fine with that, no judgement here. For the record I second the confirmat screws.  I love those things and use them everywhere I can they work great in every substrate I have ever tried.   

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2771
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2021, 11:15 AM »
I'd either attack this project with dominoes -- dominoes alone -- (for speed, simplicity, and efficiency), or do it in the traditional way (rabbets and dados). There's little to gain from using the dominoes for the top/bottom and sides only, and then some other joinery for the verticals.

Info. on what is to be put in the unit is not known. For average objects, the dominoes reinforced with the verticals nailed or dominoed to the back should be good enough.

If the idea is to fill every shelf with LPs or heavy items, I may be worried about sacking whether you're using dominoes or not. I'd also not use just one single French cleat, but two, top and close to the bottom.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 07:48 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 526
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2021, 11:19 AM »
Confirmats offer the advantages of a screw with the advantages of a dowel.  And they can be removed and replaced with no loss of holding power. I mix confirmats with through dowels.  The dowels work very well and the confirmats obviate the requirement for clamping. 

I think I would use blind dowels for the bottom shelf, with close spacing at the front edge where the backer board offers no structure.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 526
Re: Large hanging shelving unit using Domino
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2021, 11:25 AM »
Confirmats offer the advantages of a screw with the advantages of a dowel.  And they can be removed and replaced with no loss of holding power. I mix confirmats with through dowels.  The dowels work very well and the confirmats obviate the requirement for clamping. 

I think I would use blind dowels for the bottom shelf, with close spacing at the front edge where the backer board offers no structure.

I was surprised to read the results of tests run by the RTA (ready to assemble) furniture trade association and another by the kitchen cabinet manufacturers' association that concluded that dados offer little to no structure in terms of racking (side to side movement). And it would offer little advantage in glue surface. 

I think dominoes, dowels and even biscuits would perform better, as they would all offer substantially more glue area.  I have a biscuit cutter, but my go to method is to use dowels.  I'm comfortable with the process and I have several good dowel jigs.