Author Topic: Kitchen Remodel  (Read 4259 times)

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Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 146
Kitchen Remodel
« on: February 04, 2021, 10:14 PM »
Question for the kitchen and bathroom remodeling experts - Is it best to bring in a designer to get an overall plan?  I'm looking to remodel the kitchen and master bathroom (cabinets, back splash, counter tops, etc.).  I want to ensure the design looks right versus old cabinet painted white.  Since I'm time constrain with work, I need to find contractors to execute it too. Any suggestions or advise on how to start this process especially since its a priority of my wife.     

Thanks
Chris 
       

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Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1089
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2021, 12:30 AM »
Who will be building the cabinets? If a cabinet maker they will often do the drawings and can put together some of their favorite features for you. I would recommend a smaller local cabinet shop. The cabinet shop probably has contractors they often work with and might be able to produce a good recommendation.

Do not use Home Depot or any of the big box stores. The reasons are numerous. A smaller cabinet maker will be about the same price, easier to deal with, and the quality will be 4x better. On that note if you want to see different types of cabinet styles, wood types, etc, the big box stores are perfect. Visit a bunch of local kitchen type stores for ideas. Pinterest is good for ideas too.

Counter tops will come from another supplier. Home Depot and the like use local fabricators, I would recommend cutting out the middle man.

You will get to pick everything yourselves, and a good designer can lead you around. It is up to you if you want to budget a designer into the mix or not.

Drawers! <My piece of advice. All drawers, other than under the sink, and if the panty is built in, put drawers in the cabinets. Massive double drawers for pots and pans. No microwave above the stove, use a hood and a remote mounted quiet fan, like a Panasonic Whisper. Okay two pieces of advice. Built in trash and recycling in a drawer. Okay three...I'll shut up now.

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 146
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2021, 07:42 PM »
Thanks Peter - Any opinion on inset cabinets that go to the ceiling.  And microwave in the island.  Any suggestion on a white counter top (i.e. saddlestone??) ..  Thanks Chris

« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 07:49 PM by Chris Perren »

Offline hdv

  • Posts: 329
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2021, 06:12 AM »
If there is one lesson I learned when I built my house, then it was that a good designer/architect is certainly worth the investment. They bring ideas and insights that I myself didn't have and that really did improve not only the looks, but also the practicality of things.

Offline cpw

  • Posts: 298
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2021, 07:14 AM »
We have a microwave drawer in our island and like it.  There are definitely fewer options than if you choose another style of microwave, but it is far better than an over the range option and is cleaner than a countertop option.

Offline Thompmd

  • Posts: 247
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2021, 07:53 AM »
I agree with staying away from the box stores altogether. In my area there are really a couple of cabinet shops that have been around for 50yrs and both do mid to high end cabinetry. What shocked me(shouldn’t have but did) is we thought we had a pretty good idea from looking at magazines, internet , Pinterest , home shows and even high end open houses and talking to the realtor for cabinetmakers. But what the cabinet shops had was a TON of small design ideas they had gathered from 50yrs of experience. Lots were virtually no cost and we walked away thrilled!!

Personally I wouldn’t use a deigner and would use the money saved to upgrade your kitchen even more. The cabinet makers had been in hundreds of homes and after being in yours I would be surprised if you still felt the need .

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Offline Ocfishingguy

  • Posts: 10
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2021, 10:21 AM »
Any local cabinet shop will have good design ideas of a kitchen, and will address your questions. They have experience and knowledge on making a kitchen flow. Example; triangle rule - making an uninterrupted triangle between oven, sink & range.  Spice rack locations, microwave, pot/pan storage etc. They should give you CAD drawings/package with renderings, measurements, etc.

See attached rendering samples.

All the questions on inset, half overlay, full overlay, under mount soft close drawers vs side mount glides, push to open drawers, should be answered by the cabinet company.  Always get 3 bids. Always ask for previous 3 jobs, with dates & contact info.  Make sure they list contact info for any subcontractor they will use. When a dollar amount like a kitchen, ask for copy of liability insurance.

Some shops include the design, others charge upfront.  Designers sometimes muddy the water, but if you do go that route, ask for qty of kitchen remodels they have done and see if they have a package for kitchen remodel or can you pay them hourly for their advice. I work with a few designers, and they all offer this. They also usually have a pocket list of contractors they use or can recommend.

Hope this helps.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1089
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2021, 02:07 PM »
Thanks Peter - Any opinion on inset cabinets that go to the ceiling.
I have no idea what your current layout is. Our cabinets go the ceilings, but we have 8ft walls.
And microwave in the island.
As I use a microwave a lot I would keep the microwave as close to chest height as possible, for ease of use.

Is the stove going on the island? Again a hood vented outside is a requirement in my book.
Any suggestion on a white counter top (i.e. saddlestone??) ..  Thanks Chris
I like working with Corian myself as I can just use my Festool stuff for fabricating it. Many folks like stone, but I would ask my wife what she would allow. Fortunately she agreed with the blue Corian I got supa cheap. LOL Quartz is very common these days. Budget could play a role in it, as some countertops are very expensive. I'd recommend looking at EVERYTHING then let your wife pick the counters.

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 146
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2021, 02:26 PM »
These are great recommendations. I've attached our current kitchen below. I don't mind paying for the design although I prefer either a fix / or hourly cost. We built the house in 2007 and just want to upgrade it to 2021. I agree three bids are optimum.  I've just started searching for cabinet shops and remodelers within the Austin, TX area.. I would welcome any recommendations.       

Our microwave is the most used kitchen item which vents outside above our stovetop.  A hooded vent outside is a requirement. Any recommendations for a gas stove top preferably an industrial design that's reliable. It seems everyone going with the farm look for a kitchen sink too.

Thanks again for everyone suggestions..   

Chris         
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 02:30 PM by Chris Perren »

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6405
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2021, 07:37 PM »
If you can, get rid of the corner pantry closet. Incorporate a cabinet pantry.

We do a lot of slide in microwaves, be them in the island or a base cabinet elsewhere in the kitchen.

Tom

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1089
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2021, 03:03 AM »
If you can, get rid of the corner pantry closet. Incorporate a cabinet pantry.
One of the best kitchen changes we made was doing just that, along with moving the fridge. The cabinet doors could open to pull out drawers, or drawers with fronts. They make some deep drawer slides, allowing space efficient, customizable, storage.

Our microwave is the most used kitchen item which vents outside above our stovetop.  A hooded vent outside is a requirement. Any recommendations for a gas stove top preferably an industrial design that's reliable. It seems everyone going with the farm look for a kitchen sink too.
Where is the stove going?

A handmade hood vent could be a focal point of the kitchen, with a Wolf, Viking, Decora, etc. professional stove. Try cooking with the BTU's and you will love a powerful professional stove. No electronics to fail (Self ignition only). Who wants a stove that beeps? Who want a noisy fan running right by their ear while cooking? If a remote vent fan can work the noise level by the stove drops closer to just the sound of air rushing. It is possible to remote mount a microwave over the stove fan even.

Farm style sinks are very functional. I like how they are typically rounded on top with a gentle edge. With their narrow width the working position is comfortable. What the post running water farm houses still use today, as I have seen them in original kitchens from the early 1900's.

Another thing we like is a pot filler. Not because we don't have to carry the water, but because it is plumbed direct with a 1/2" line and fills pots 8x faster than the kitchen sink.

A skinny but tall drawer for baking pans is nice to have.

"Our" preference is for a BIG single bowl sink. We don't do the fill one side and rinse in the other, so being that our frying pan handles are long it allows the entire pan to fit down inside while hand washing, and spraying them off.

What's in the wall off the dishwasher area? Pipes? Electrical? Can you loose that cabinet, and make it open?

You have some nice garage cabinets for someone once removed. Hopefully those counters can find a new life.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8587
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2021, 10:27 AM »

A hooded vent outside is a requirement. Any recommendations for a gas stove top preferably an industrial design that's reliable. It seems everyone going with the farm look for a kitchen sink too.


I installed a Wolf "dual fuel" range...the best of all worlds. A gas top with high BTU burners while the oven is electric which brings with it all of the niceties, convection, self-cleaning, dehydration of foods, pizza stone, et al.

I also installed a pot filler that has its own water filter downstairs. Notice that I placed it off to the side of the range & range hood. That means it is not in the path of water vapor & grease when the stove is in use and the range hood is on. It is also not subjected to the direct heat of the burners which will shorten the life of the seals.

Something else that's really nice at night is when I installed the outlets in the kitchen, I included several night lights that come on automatically. So nice when you want a glass of water in the middle of the night without turning on the main lights and going blind. Legrand manufactures them and integrates them in both switches and outlets. The light intensity of the night lights is also adjustable at 4 different levels.

Finally, this is the outside vent I used, it's a low profile design and disappears on the outside of the house. I'd also recommend that if possible, install a hood range that has a remote blower. I didn't do that and I regret it daily. [crying]








Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 146
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2021, 03:43 PM »
We definitely want the hood to be the focal point although I need to research more about remote blowers.  I'm all for automation and whisper quiet! Currently we have a 2 piece step up for counter tops which will be replace with a single one level white quartz counter top with a farm sink.  I like the idea of removing the wall above the dish washer although I need to convince the wife.

Any thoughts on inset cabinets (i.e. zero overlay) with the bottoms or island being a darker brown finish.  The tops will definitely be white.  The island will be replaced too .. hopefully with a wine refrigerator.

Thanks Chris           

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 3031
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2021, 04:31 PM »
I’d recommend LED under cabinet lighting that is dimmable.  Same with interior glass cabinet lighting if you are doing that. 

White countertops can be a challenge to keep stain free, depending on the material.  Red wine and even red meat can stain them.  I just built a new home with honed black granite counters in the kitchen and Quartz concrete in the baths and laundry.  Very happy with both.

Consider lots of electrical outlets on the counters and island, and even in cabinets and drawers for things like cell phones and other chargers.  Not sure I’d go with USB outlets as the standard is continually changing as technology evolves, so I stuck with standard 120v.

If you can plumb in recirculating hot water, I’d recommend it. One of my favorite features!

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1437
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2021, 05:18 PM »
cheese,  info on that exterior vent? never see one like that before.


Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6405
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2021, 10:58 PM »
@chrisperren

Look at this gallery, Wolf cooktop with a stainless farm sink. You’ll also see the hood (did this home 2 years ago).

https://www.allabouthomedesign.com/gallery/mountain-modern-millhaven/


Pictured is a Wolf dual fuel range, note the hood.

For liners and blowers, look at Vent A Hood and Wolf. Beware a vent 400 cfm or higher requires a make up air system. Make up air kits, Zephyr.

Look into the Century X-series adjustable rollout systems. Shown in picture below.

I agree on the LED’s....or.....If you want a smooth splash wall look into the Legrand Adorne system, you can see there are no receptacles on the wall with the Wolf dual fuel.

Answers to some of the questions above will help.

Tom
« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 08:42 AM by tjbnwi »

Offline Stan Tillinghast

  • Posts: 197
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2021, 11:56 PM »
Tjbnwi- your kitchen looks much better right side up.
Für uns...ist das Beste gerade gut genug!

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6405
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2021, 12:11 AM »
@Stan Tillinghast

Happens when using the iPad sometimes.

Not my kitchen, we just create them, I can’t afford myself......

Tom

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8587
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2021, 12:56 AM »
cheese,  info on that exterior vent? never see one like that before.

It's a Kensington dome vent...DVSS200...stainless steel in 8" diameter. I had to order it from Australia but that was 7 years ago, I'd imagine they are more easily available now. Available in all common sizes from 3" through 10".

The Wolf hood comes with an internal 1-way baffle installed, however, I placed another 1-way baffle just inside the Kensington vent to prevent cold air from entering the vent, condensing the moisture and dripping on the floor, works well.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 01:09 AM by Cheese »

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8587
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2021, 02:14 AM »
I’d recommend LED under cabinet lighting that is dimmable.  Same with interior glass cabinet lighting if you are doing that. 

White countertops can be a challenge to keep stain free, depending on the material.  Red wine and even red meat can stain them.  I just built a new home with honed black granite counters in the kitchen and Quartz concrete in the baths and laundry.  Very happy with both.


I'd echo both of Neil's recommendations...

I prefer to use Diode LED products for continuous use because they just work and you don't have to baby them. I consider Diode LED to be an industrial strength product.  [smile]  Their Ultrablaze product is what I use for under cabinet lighting. It's incredibly bright and it's dimmable...there are other products that are available for less that are not dimmable or as reliable. Pay once...cry once. [smile]

However, whatever LED lighting you decide on using (there is no other alternative to LED) make sure you solder the wiring connections rather than using the convenient snap on LED connectors that come with the LED strip. The supplied connectors will eventually fail, it's guaranteed.

Here's a photo of a Diode LED strip that I assembled with the standard Diode LED snap on connector. After 8 months of use for task lighting in the kitchen this is the result.




Just solder the connection and eliminate any future dimming, flashing inconvenience. Besides...it's a safety/fire hazard.




Also, if you decide to hide the LED's in a routed out channel, still incorporate an aluminum channel as it will act as a heat sink and significantly extend the life of your LED strips. Latent heat is the number one issue effecting the life of LED's.

My favorite driver for tight LED installs is the Diode LED Switchex. It isn't cheap but it's pretty slick. It's a combination of a LED driver (power supply) and a switch/dimmer all in one package. Normally, the LED needs to be powered by a driver and then it also needs to be switched on and off with a switch. This typically results in 2 different products that need to be incorporated into 2 different areas/electrical boxes. The Switchex is installed into a single electrical box and provides both the power and the switching/dimming capabilities. They are available for both 12 volt and 24 volt LED lighting and are sized by the LED wattage.

https://www.diodeled.com/switchex.html




Finally, the white surface and red wine warning that Neil mentions rings true. I installed a white marble side entry and about 2 months later, during a get together, a glass of red wine was spilled on the floor. I was unable to remove the stain and 5 years later I jack hammered the floor and replaced the marble with some variegated purple/green slate. Much nicer...

« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 12:19 PM by Cheese »

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6405
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2021, 08:43 AM »
Tjbnwi- your kitchen looks much better right side up.

I corrected the pictures.

Tom

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 146
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2021, 06:52 PM »
@tjbnwi 

Tom - Nice Cabinets..  I noticed the counter top is thicker on the island than underneath the cabinets. Is it a specific quartz?  Also I noticed inside cabinet lighting.. Is it LED strips in the top of the cabinets?  As expected, the finish is very impressive. I like the hood. Is it a "Vent A Hood" design..  Its definitely a center piece.       

The Century X-series and Legrand Adorne system are great recommendations.. Definitely something I'm going to consider.

Thanks Chris     



Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1451
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2021, 07:27 PM »
For an industrial stove it’s hard to beat stainless steel. This hood has a 900 cfm unit on the roof. Although you can’t really hear the fan motor, the air rushing through the hood is a bit noisy at full blast.  [eek]

Ron


Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6405
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2021, 08:10 PM »
@chrisperren

Thank you.

The thicker top is just a "looks" thing. Any good stone fabricator should be able to do the thicker top.


The liner in that hood is a Wolf. We design and fabricate in house. I like to make the vent accessible, a lot of hoods make the vent difficult to service because they are "one" piece. The doors open on the hood.

This is a hood we installed last week. She wanted a curved hood which usually means a solid piece. Zach came up with using magnets and Blum push to opens to allow the center panel to be removed. The cradle seen in the bench picture, we hot glue the kerfed face to it, by having the face in shape when we sprayed it we didn’t have to worry about the finish cracking if we had to bend it into shape. We have to finish up some things on the install, I’ll get pictures with the face removed.

Tom





« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 08:12 PM by tjbnwi »

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 146
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2021, 08:16 PM »
I marked up my kitchen in the attached pictures.  What changes should I make or reconsider. Any feedback is welcome. Thanks.

Chris   

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5228
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2021, 05:08 PM »
I’d recommend LED under cabinet lighting that is dimmable.  Same with interior glass cabinet lighting if you are doing that. 

White countertops can be a challenge to keep stain free, depending on the material.  Red wine and even red meat can stain them.  I just built a new home with honed black granite counters in the kitchen and Quartz concrete in the baths and laundry.  Very happy with both.

Consider lots of electrical outlets on the counters and island, and even in cabinets and drawers for things like cell phones and other chargers.  Not sure I’d go with USB outlets as the standard is continually changing as technology evolves, so I stuck with standard 120v.

If you can plumb in recirculating hot water, I’d recommend it. One of my favorite features!

Plumb it to where? The floor?

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 146
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2021, 08:42 PM »
During my whole house tankless install (Navien 240S), the plumber added a recirculation valve in the kitchen which works ok at best.  The problem is the kitchen is the furthest from the water heater and does not gets hot enough (i.e. ~115 degrees)..  All the other water outlets work great (i.e. 130 degrees).. Maybe a dedicated tankless heater under kitchen sink?  I do have 120 volt outlet that could be share with the garbage disposal..  Any opinions?

Does white quartz kitchen counter top susceptible to staining (i.e. red wine spill).  Any thoughts or alternatives.. I prefer minimum maintenance ..  maybe butcher block for the island but would prefer white counter for the other locations.

Thanks
Chris           

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6405
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2021, 09:05 PM »
I’d recommend LED under cabinet lighting that is dimmable.  Same with interior glass cabinet lighting if you are doing that. 

White countertops can be a challenge to keep stain free, depending on the material.  Red wine and even red meat can stain them.  I just built a new home with honed black granite counters in the kitchen and Quartz concrete in the baths and laundry.  Very happy with both.

Consider lots of electrical outlets on the counters and island, and even in cabinets and drawers for things like cell phones and other chargers.  Not sure I’d go with USB outlets as the standard is continually changing as technology evolves, so I stuck with standard 120v.

If you can plumb in recirculating hot water, I’d recommend it. One of my favorite features!

Plumb it to where? The floor?

A third line is installed that returns the hot water to the heater. Most have a timer that control a small pump so the water in the hot water line is refreshed, provides instant hot water.

Watts makes a retrofit system that works pretty well, you don't need the return line.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6405
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2021, 09:08 PM »
Your plan will work.

I'd get rid of the pantry closet for a pantry cabinet. I know this may mean getting rid of the wife, but life is about tradeoffs.  [big grin]

Tom

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 146
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2021, 09:35 PM »
 [laughing][laughing].  That's funny.