Author Topic: Kitchen Remodel  (Read 4364 times)

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6425
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2021, 09:55 PM »
[laughing][laughing].  That's funny.         

43 years of marriage will make you a little goofy..... ;)

Tom

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Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 1119
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2021, 10:48 PM »
A third line is installed that returns the hot water to the heater. Most have a timer that control a small pump so the water in the hot water line is refreshed, provides instant hot water.

Watts makes a retrofit system that works pretty well, you don't need the return line.

Tom
Taco makes one that is controlled by a button. Since we are in a constant drought in California, wasting water is not a good thing. So I put a hot water loop in and rigged our house up with a switch in each water access point (Small house) so you push the button that turns red until the pump shuts off, when it senses hot water. The water is now hot within 3 seconds of turning it on.

The reason I didn't want a timer is that it would run a lot, wasting energy. If you want convenience, then the ones that cycle routinely from say 6:00am until 10:00pm work great. Taco also builds that style too.

Many can just hook into the hot and cold lines at the farthest sink. They all require an outlet.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8722
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2021, 12:00 AM »
During my whole house tankless install (Navien 240S), the plumber added a recirculation valve in the kitchen which works ok at best.  The problem is the kitchen is the furthest from the water heater and does not gets hot enough (i.e. ~115 degrees)..  All the other water outlets work great (i.e. 130 degrees).. Maybe a dedicated tankless heater under kitchen sink?  I do have 120 volt outlet that could be share with the garbage disposal..  Any opinions?

I'd check the Navien for any oddities or is there insulation missing from the copper runs?

I installed a Rinnai, set it for 125º and these are the results. All the lines are copper and are insulated with the typical round foam insulation from the big box stores.

This run to the kitchen sink is about 8 feet from the Rinnai.




This run is to the bathroom sink which is about 35-40 feet from the Rinnai.




« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 09:49 AM by Cheese »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8722
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2021, 12:38 AM »

Does white quartz kitchen counter top susceptible to staining (i.e. red wine spill).  Any thoughts or alternatives.. I prefer minimum maintenance ..  maybe butcher block for the island but would prefer white counter for the other locations.
     

"A white countertop can be spectacular. But even a white quartz countertop is vulnerable to staining from products such as red wine, tea, coffee, tomato sauce, and more if it’s not cleaned up right away."

https://www.msisurfaces.com/blogs/post/2017/08/26/tips-from-the-trade-are-white-quartz-countertops-stain-resistant.aspx

https://www.granitegold.com/does-quartz-stain/
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 12:49 AM by Cheese »

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1362
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2021, 12:48 AM »
During my whole house tankless install (Navien 240S), the plumber added a recirculation valve in the kitchen which works ok at best.  The problem is the kitchen is the furthest from the water heater and does not gets hot enough (i.e. ~115 degrees)..  All the other water outlets work great (i.e. 130 degrees).. Maybe a dedicated tankless heater under kitchen sink?  I do have 120 volt outlet that could be share with the garbage disposal..  Any opinions?
       

So I don't know why you would be getting that high of temps. devices have anti-scald valves set around 110F.  Tanked heaters I think are now required to have a mixer at the WH to knock it down from the 120-140F it runs at, a tankless can be just set at ~110ish since they don't have to be concerned with legionnaires.  Not sure if facets have the mixing valves or if it's just in things like shower valves.  I don't know why you would be trying to get 130 degrees coming out of a tap.

Scalding Info  <- nice temp table.   Can't find a universal temp setting, thought many of the shower stuff was set for 109F.   

So just a thought that maybe someplace in your setup there may be something like that going on. You shouldn't be loosing much heat in the pipes even if un-insulated.  A long run will take time to get to temp, but it will get there.

Offline denrusso

  • Posts: 51
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2021, 02:00 PM »
   
Our microwave is the most used kitchen item which vents outside above our stovetop.  A hooded vent outside is a requirement. Any recommendations for a gas stove top preferably an industrial design that's reliable. It seems everyone going with the farm look for a kitchen sink too.     

We purchased our house two years ago and gutted the entire main level, which included moving the kitchen.  Created an open floor plan that integrates the kitchen, dining room, and living room.

Everyone has their own tastes and requirements and, to this point, we no longer have a microwave.  Instead we installed a steam oven and absolutely love it.  Reheating food comes out just as good as when first cooked.  We installed this just above our main oven in the wall and went with a range top opposed to a full range.  Our designer moved us in this direction and glad we listened.  With the range, the oven door opens almost to the floor, meaning you are bending down to get in your oven.  With the wall mount ovens, everything is waist high and so much easier to work with.

I guess all this to say, yes it is a good idea to work with a kitchen designer.  They will work with you and help you identify design features that you may not even think about.  When we first went about this project, I was set on getting a 48" range.  But after going over everything with the designer it made more sense to go with the wall oven.  We even designed it to have as little counter appliances as possible.  Built in steam oven and built in coffee maker, both of which are plumbed, leaves the counters free for use.  Again, the benefits of working with a designer.

Good luck!!

Thanks,
dr
TS55Req | OF 1400 | Domino 500 | CXS | MFT/3 | LR 32 | FS 3000 | FS 1400 LR 32

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 146
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2021, 03:30 PM »
@denrusso  - Thanks for the information. Any pictures?  Never though about plumbing for a coffee maker.. Great idea! We're working with a local designer on the kitchen and master bathroom plans now.  I suspect the model representation should be ready in next few weeks. Our goal is use a Wolf wall oven and separate range top similar to your kitchen..

Thanks
Chris   

Offline denrusso

  • Posts: 51
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2021, 04:30 PM »
@denrusso  - Thanks for the information. Any pictures?  Never though about plumbing for a coffee maker.. Great idea! We're working with a local designer on the kitchen and master bathroom plans now.  I suspect the model representation should be ready in next few weeks. Our goal is use a Wolf wall oven and separate range top similar to your kitchen..

Thanks
Chris

I'm no expert when it comes to posting pics - hopefully this worked.  The cabinets are a walnut veneer and all appliance are Miele.  It was between Wolf/Subzero and Miele.  I wanted to stick with a single brand because I got the best pricing that way.  Miele won out because of their steam oven and built in espresso machine are both plumbable while the wolf are not - which means you had to fill them with water every time they got low.  Or maybe since my tools are made in Germany so should my appliances?

Countertop is quartzite (this is different than quartz which is technically man made) and has a leather finish to it (i.e. it's not glass smooth).  We're very happy with the result.  On the left side of the picture - a bit hard to see - is one of the windows we put in.  Just about floor to ceiling - something like 6' tall and 12' wide.  Our house is an upside down ranch and the driveway is level with the main (top) floor.  The house is built into a hill so the opposite side of the driveway is one story up.  The bedrooms are all located on the lower floor, with one side of the house being the foundation wall and the other having sliding doors onto our patio.

I think I may have share more than you wanted to know.


Thanks,
dr
TS55Req | OF 1400 | Domino 500 | CXS | MFT/3 | LR 32 | FS 3000 | FS 1400 LR 32

Offline kfitzsimons

  • Posts: 298
Re: Kitchen Remodel
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2021, 05:20 PM »
I refer a lot to Fine Homebuilding back issues. Especially the Kitchen and Bath issues that come out about once a year. They are fantastic references. You can buy the back issues at the finehomebuilding.com web site. Go to the "magazine" tab. They will help you think through the remodel and answer tons of questions. Taunton Press books are also great references. You should have a really good idea of what you want in a kitchen before talking to a designer or a cabinet maker. You know how you work and what features you want / need in a kitchen. We did our kitchen 30 years ago and we still enjoy it every day. One feature we can't live without now is a small vegetable cleaning sink in our island in addition to the double sink in the main counter. Have fun!