Author Topic: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.  (Read 2887 times)

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Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1882
I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« on: November 27, 2022, 04:39 PM »
My kitchen is not of the “eat in” variety and has no table.  And no island.  So I thought adding a “coffee bar” in the sunroom would make sense.

I completed it on Wednesday.  The clear oil based poly has cured enough for light use.  (I am still using placemats, and will do so for another week.)

This morning was the first time I was to use the coffee bar. 

My house is at the highest point in town (about 250 feet above sea level—the main roadway is at 90 feet above sea level).  The sun room faces east.

I went to sit down and enjoy my coffee and bagel, but the sun rose bright and was so blinding that I had to move to the dining room.

I ordered double honeycomb light filtering pull down shades (not the room darkening shades).  No one seems to sell the spring loaded pull down shades. 

So, the project cost an unplanned-for additional $540.00, and remains unusable for breakfast (except on cloudy days).

(My fault entirely.  I mean, who does not know that the sun rises in the east virtually every day.  And on the day it does not rise, there will be no saving humanity so home improvement projects would be on a permanent hold.

I just placed the blinds order from Blinds.com.  I have no idea at this point how long it will take to arrive (and once again, I have purchased from a vendor without checking on their reliability in advance).

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Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4339
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2022, 05:31 PM »
Do you have sun-block tinting on the east-facing windows?  You might consider the kind that blocks UV-A and UV-B without blocking significant visible light.  The down-side is that if you have plants in the sunroom, you may need to install grow lights after applying the UV-block tinting. 
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1882
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2022, 09:25 AM »
Thanks for the suggestion.

It maybe just the offices I have visited with this type of film, but the rooms tended to seem gray and without any sparkle. 

I want the sunroom to remain sunny, bright and cheerful. 

They allow for adjustability.  In the morning I can lower them and filter the light.  Late in the day I can raise them and keep the room bright and cheerful.

Ideally, I would have welding helmet technology, with a darkness control knob to adjust from light to dark.  I read that the new Ferrari has a glass roof that employs that tech, and combined with a built in light meter it adjusts the light automatically to a preset value.  (I suspect that would cost a lot more than $520.00.)

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4339
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2022, 01:29 PM »
I'd recommend that you talk with a company that does the tint application for a recommendation of a film that meets your expectations, and get one window done so that you can see the effect.   [smile]
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Online luvmytoolz

  • Posts: 384
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2022, 03:28 PM »
You can get really nice holographic/prismatic vinyl sheet stickers off ebay for windows that let light in while diffusing the glare.

Sort of a faux leadlight in clear or coloured.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1882
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2022, 03:42 PM »
The window shades were ordered before I made the post.  I was just venting on my own shortsightedness.  I should have foreseen this from the beginning.  The sun has been going on like this for quite a while now.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2883
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2022, 05:58 PM »
If you think thigs are going well...it is obvious that you are overlooking something.  One of my life lessons after 70 years

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1882
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2022, 06:07 PM »
If you think thigs are going well...it is obvious that you are overlooking something.  One of my life lessons after 70 years

I guess I’m a slow learner.  The life lessons have not kept pace with me and I’m 74.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2883
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2022, 07:34 PM »
Worse part of being older is forgetting what you’re forgetting

Online luvmytoolz

  • Posts: 384
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2022, 07:52 PM »
Worse part of being older is forgetting what you’re forgetting

That explains why I keep finding mugs in the freezer! ;-)

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5873
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2022, 08:42 PM »
Worse part of being older is forgetting what you’re forgetting

Having walked purposefully to the other end of the shop, I stop and wonder why?

And it’s a short walk.


Offline mino

  • Posts: 1281
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2022, 09:02 PM »
Not sure, why but I know a LOT of people who would kill to be able to eat breakfast in a room with direct morning sunlight. Even better, a terrace with one.

We have a small "coffer table" just below the window in our bedroom for that exact purpose.

Onto the issue:
Did you consider just changing the seating instead, so you do not (have to) sit "facing" the rising Sun ?

Secondly, while you missed the east part, make sure to not miss that the Sun rises at different times and at different places/angles in summer and in winter. So what may be an annoying angle today, may be just very nice and romantic/pleasant eperience during the summer periods.

My 2c.
The Machine has no brains. Use Yours!

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1882
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2022, 09:56 AM »
It is not sunny out today or I would have posted an image.

My home sits at the promontory of the tallest hill in town and my sunroom windows overlook an unobstructed view that extends for miles.

What that mean is there is no structures or trees to block the sun as it rises.  At this time of day the sun shines directly in my face from about 7:00 to 8:00 in the morning and it is so bright and is aiming upwards in my face that it is impossible to read or even look at my plate. 

After 8:00 it is fine.  At that time the sun is aiming at an angle downward and vision is possible.  But I eat breakfast about 7:30.  So I can choose to eat breakfast elsewhere or add some sun control features. 

It is a very nice view so I would not want the shades down for more than an hour a day.  The it is at a critical eating time, so the shades are going up.  The are double cell light filtering (not room darkening) and will add some insulation too. 

 

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1848
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2022, 10:25 AM »
Another solution would be to have breakfast earlier and you could view the sunrise.  [tongue]

Make it a feature instead of a problem.  [big grin]

Ron

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1882
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2022, 10:40 AM »
Once I retired, I assumed the clock would prove meaningless.  When I worked, I woke up at 6:00 a.m.

I don’t set an alarm, but I have never managed to sleep past 7:00. 

Undoing 50+ years of habit is proving tougher than I thought. [big grin]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10271
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2022, 12:20 PM »
If you think things are going well...it is obvious that you are overlooking something. 

Now that's hilarious... [not worthy]

FWIW...a good 25+ years ago Marvin was the first to offer a switchable privacy window and partnered with 3M to produce the film needed to install inside their casement windows. It was a great idea but too far ahead of the "customize your own window" curve to be very successful. Marvin was also offering, at the same time, motorized casements windows that could be programmed to close at a specific time of day or they would close automatically when the rain sensor was activated, similar to current Velux skylights.

The nice feature with the switchable privacy window is that it could be manually switched or it could be programmed to actuate at various hours of the day. So in your case Packard, sunlight spills in until 7:00 AM then privacy until 8:00 AM and then after that the sun returns.  [smile]

Thinking about that a little more, I wonder if there is some commercial film that's available to apply to the window in this day & age, that'd just make sense.

Here's an example of the current Marvin product, they're partnering with Polytronix.

Window on, window off.




« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 12:23 PM by Cheese »

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1714
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2022, 01:05 PM »
It is not sunny out today or I would have posted an image.

My home sits at the promontory of the tallest hill in town and my sunroom windows overlook an unobstructed view that extends for miles.

What that mean is there is no structures or trees to block the sun as it rises.  At this time of day the sun shines directly in my face from about 7:00 to 8:00 in the morning and it is so bright and is aiming upwards in my face that it is impossible to read or even look at my plate. 

After 8:00 it is fine.  At that time the sun is aiming at an angle downward and vision is possible.  But I eat breakfast about 7:30.  So I can choose to eat breakfast elsewhere or add some sun control features. 

It is a very nice view so I would not want the shades down for more than an hour a day.  The it is at a critical eating time, so the shades are going up.  The are double cell light filtering (not room darkening) and will add some insulation too.

Did you get the top-down, bottom-up style, or just traditional single rail double-cells?

I only mention the top-down because it sounds like it may make lowering the shades during the early parts of sunrise more amenable to leaving a view.

I also love top-down shades for the ability to get light at eye level while maintaining some privacy at body level.  Even better with double-hung full-screen windows to get air at night while maintaining privacy.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1882
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2022, 01:12 PM »
I did the traditional with cords.  The cordless appealed to me, but the counter (20” deep) would have made the shades largely unreachable.

Interior mount.  I’ll post an image showing a wider view of the room.

I’m working on the foot rail/ledge and that should be done tonight but adding the finish will require additional days.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4339
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2022, 08:58 AM »
Worse part of being older is forgetting what you’re forgetting

Having walked purposefully to the other end of the shop, I stop and wonder why?

And it’s a short walk.

I can so relate to that (painfully...).   [big grin]
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1281
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2022, 10:39 AM »
That explains why I keep finding mugs in the freezer! ;-)
Hehe, guess some of us age in reverse. I managed to learn not "storing" things in the freezer only when around 30. In my 20s I was pretty good at "storing" my mobile there ... among other things.
Still hard at studying on how not to store stuff in the fridge ...

I think the "where did I forget it" more reflects a person "dropping" all the unimportant information. I very much remember "forgetting" where did I place that and that when I was in my teens. And it was definitely not due to a bad memory.


These days, when I try to up-move "junior" folks to a "senior" thinking, I start by saying:
"The speed how one moves up the knowledge ladder is not determined by their ability to learn and remember. It is determined by their ability to recognize and forget the unimportant. For that is what allows them to remember the important."


I think as people get older we unconsciously get better at identifying and forgetting the unimportant. Eventually we get so good we start forgetting the important.
The Machine has no brains. Use Yours!

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1882
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2022, 09:27 AM »
Not sure, why but I know a LOT of people who would kill to be able to eat breakfast in a room with direct morning sunlight. Even better, a terrace with one.
[…]


The main appeal of the room is the view, so facing the window made sense.  Or I could have it facing a wall, or facing a window looking into the living room.   Facing the wall or the living room were unappealing options. 

I tried to capture the morning sun as I see it, but the camera tries to compensate leaving the interior under-exposed and diminishing the effect of the sun.  But here is my best effort from this morning at approximately 7:30.  That is probably the worst of it and the problem goes away about 30 minutes later.

At this time of the year, the sun makes its entrance at about 6:30 but only becomes annoying about 15 or 20 minutes later.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 07:24 PM by Packard »

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1714
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2022, 12:47 PM »
Hopefully it's only a problem a few weeks of the year.  In my office, we're currently in the pre-solstice weeks where I need to close the drapes if it's sunny between 8:30 AM and 11 AM, but that will end soon and start again in early January, IIRC.

It's pretty amazing how much the sun has "moved" in where it comes into our east-facing living room in the morning compared to where it hit in the height of summer.  A gentle reminder of the changing of the seasons and the tilt of our planet.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1882
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2022, 03:29 PM »
Today, in my area, the sun rose at 7:04 (I just looked this up).  In June on the vernal equinox (the longest day of the year) it will rise at 5:21.

So come summer, this is not going to be an issue and probably not an issue starting around March when the sun rises at 6:30.  But for the next few months, I think the window shades will solve the problem.

They are light filtering double honeycomb shades, so the room will remain bright and sunny, but not “in-your-face-sunny”. 

I ordered the shades online so I hope I got the measurements right.  I should know in a couple of weeks.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2335
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2022, 05:34 PM »
Even when it does move up/down at different times of day, it still does it in different places too.
At my house, the only time the sun is annoying to me is around 4:00 in the afternoon in the late fall/winter. This is because of the lower southern trajectory. During the summer, when it is at the same height above the horizon, it is much further west. Then it gets blocked by the house next door.....yes we are that close together.
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Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1882
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2022, 07:22 PM »
The zoning where I live calls for a 50 foot setback, or 100 feet minimum between houses, and the windows facing an adjacent home has to be 5 feet from the floor.  If good fences make good neighbors and there is no fence, then 100 feet of separation is the next best thing.

I never paid attention to the location of the sun until I built the bar against the windows.

And veering off course here, the bar stools I bought have lower rungs meant to function as foot rests.  But my feet want to be a few inches in front of that rung.  I made a box 10” x 10” x 3 feet and experimented on the height and location of the foot rest.  11” off the ground was the most comfortable for me and about 8” from the front edge of the counter.

The difference in comfort the separate foot rest made is remarkable. If you have a bar and bar stools, it is worth the effort to make a foot rest box and experiment.

I now have to make a 8’ long version (that hopefully looks better than the plywood box I am currently using).
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 07:26 PM by Packard »

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1281
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2022, 11:51 AM »
The zoning where I live calls for a 50 foot setback, or 100 feet minimum between houses, and the windows facing an adjacent home has to be 5 feet from the floor.  If good fences make good neighbors and there is no fence, then 100 feet of separation is the next best thing.
...
Over here, we have 7 meters between houses, but there is a possibility for exception of a house even all the way to the plot boundary - if one agrees with the neighbour. Then windows or vents are prohibited on that side of the building ...

The idea is that almost all land here is arable and arable land should not be "wasted" for towns/villages but put to a better (agricultural) use. So building plots are way smaller than I see common in US.

Side benefit is one does not require a car to move around as the towns/quarter are dense-enough for school/grocery/etc being a walking distance.
 [smile]
The Machine has no brains. Use Yours!

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1882
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2022, 04:15 PM »
I’m not sure that the setback is required by the building code or simply was the decision of the builder who constructed all the houses on our block. 

The very next street over, they have homes much closer together and much closer to the road.

I value privacy (and I play the TV too loud) so the distance from the neighbors was a factor in choosing this house.

The footrest assembly is complete.  The poly on the oak is not fully cured so I am only using this while unshod.  I like to wait 200 hours before using and that would be about one week. 

The footrest is not attached to the wall or the floor as I will be putting in new flooring and having the ability to move it will make it easier to clean the floor.  It weighs just under 12 pounds, so not too difficult.  I put on leveling feet, but it did not require any adjusting.

So everything is done except for the window shades which have not arrived yet.

I am refacing the kitchen, so that will keep me busy for a while.  Thanks for looking.





Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1882
Re: I planned for everything except the sun rising each morning.
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2022, 10:04 AM »
My order for the double honeycomb blinds arrived a couple of days ago.  This morning was the first time we had bright sun since then.

The honeycombs are made from some sort of textured resin that allows light through.  The honeycomb is supposed to add insulation; the double honeycomb is supposed to add more. 

The single honeycomb filters the light through two layers of plastic film; the double filters it through 3 layers.  I opted for the double honeycomb on the theory that greater light dispersion would make the direct sun more tolerable.

For some reason I cannot get the images to appear in the post.  The links work though.  I’ll have to figure this out.

https://i.imgur.com/tOqmWXn.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6osMteL.jpg

The camera is not able to record the full range of lighting.  I have edited it to most accurately show the amount of light in the room, so the shade looked blown out.

The room remains bright and sun-filled.  I will check later and see how much it actually darkens the room with no direct sun.

The shades are easier to hang than roller shades.  Like roller shades the brackets need to be mounted with both clips identical for up/down and fore/aft, but unlike roller shades the distance between brackets is variable.  This greatly simplifies installation.

The brackets can clip on to the channel that is part of the top of the shade and runs the full width.  I placed mine about 5 - 6 inches from each end.  The shade installs with a satisfying click, so there is no ambiguity on whether it is attached or not.

The shades were surprisingly expensive.  I thought they would be $50.00 to $70.00 each.  But closer to $125.00 each from Blinds.com.

They operate smoothly and appear to be of good quality.