Author Topic: Flooring guys - refinish sanding  (Read 3910 times)

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Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 829
Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« on: September 02, 2015, 04:39 AM »
I have two hardwood refinishing projects to tackle.  I haven't done this before but have a pretty good understanding of the process (I think).  I've procured a drum sander, but wondering whether I really need an edger?  Can the RO150 tackle the edges and blend them appropriately with the drum sanded field?

I'm suspecting yes, that's possible.  If so, how do you use the orbital and random orbit modes?  Both on each grit, or rotex on lower and random orbit on higher?  Do you match grits with the drum?

Thanks for answering my [floor] newbie questions!  [embarassed]
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

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Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 10:25 AM »
Edgers are nice, and can be hard to control as well. But they, or something small like them are needed for all the tight spots that the larger floor sanders can't get to, or into, like a closet.
 I've used both the RAS 115 and the Rotex 150 in place of a standard 7" edger sander. I prefer the Rotex since it's fairly easy to take too much material off the floor with the RAS, plus the pad size is larger on the Rotex as you already know.  The Edger is generally faster I think than a Rotex, but the Rotex is easier for me to control and has great dust collection.
 I use a Oneida Dust Deputy hooked up to my 8" Drum sander to allow one of my CT's to collect dust from it.
 I use Granat for sanding older finishes and stains up, or Saphir.  The Granat tends to build up a 'curl' of melted finish on your disc, that is generally easily removed with a flick from a small putty knife.  You'll feel your sander really buck and shake once you've built up a couple of these 'curls' and need to stop and remove them. Very noticeable.
 Saphir builds up 'corns' and doesn't tend to work the same as Granat since they are very different abrasives.
 For corners or around radiators, I use my DX 93 or RO90 with the delta pad on. Or, a scraper as needed.  Under radiators, I use a 'Duckbill' sander, which looks like a low slung 5" sander mounted far away from the motor[ which, it is.. [big grin]]
 No dust collection on the Duckbill Sander, but it's rarely used, so no big deal.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6132
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 10:31 AM »
What brand/model is the floor sander? Some do not require edgers.

Tom

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 829
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 12:15 PM »
What brand/model is the floor sander? Some do not require edgers.

Tom

It's the Clarke EZ-8, which is the same one they rent at the big box stores.  I think it's usually coupled with a Clarke edger. 
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 829
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2015, 12:19 PM »
Edgers are nice, and can be hard to control as well. But they, or something small like them are needed for all the tight spots that the larger floor sanders can't get to, or into, like a closet.
 I've used both the RAS 115 and the Rotex 150 in place of a standard 7" edger sander. I prefer the Rotex since it's fairly easy to take too much material off the floor with the RAS, plus the pad size is larger on the Rotex as you already know.  The Edger is generally faster I think than a Rotex, but the Rotex is easier for me to control and has great dust collection.
 I use a Oneida Dust Deputy hooked up to my 8" Drum sander to allow one of my CT's to collect dust from it.
 I use Granat for sanding older finishes and stains up, or Saphir.  The Granat tends to build up a 'curl' of melted finish on your disc, that is generally easily removed with a flick from a small putty knife.  You'll feel your sander really buck and shake once you've built up a couple of these 'curls' and need to stop and remove them. Very noticeable.
 Saphir builds up 'corns' and doesn't tend to work the same as Granat since they are very different abrasives.
 For corners or around radiators, I use my DX 93 or RO90 with the delta pad on. Or, a scraper as needed.  Under radiators, I use a 'Duckbill' sander, which looks like a low slung 5" sander mounted far away from the motor[ which, it is.. [big grin]]
 No dust collection on the Duckbill Sander, but it's rarely used, so no big deal.

Thanks!  Great info.  Do you match your drum grits to the granat/saphir?  Like making a 60g pass with the 8" drum in the field, then 60g granat on the edges?  Or do you find you need to go higher/lower on the edge sanding?
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2015, 12:31 PM »
Generally , yes, I match grits at least in number. But remember that either the Edger or a Rotex/other sander won't put the same pattern down in the wood as the larger sander did, so sometimes it's more about getting the floor to look the way you want versus a strict sanding schedule. Also, Festool's abrasives don't have to match the sheets or roll that's on a drum type floor sander since they weren't designed the same.
 Take before and after pictures,  they're always fun.  [big grin]
 I also will use my RS2[ half sheet sander] to blend in sanding marks or other issues.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2015, 12:34 PM »
My kitchen floor, just redone last week.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2015, 12:36 PM »
Main bedroom, just got a touch up coat.  I refinished it in 2010- Had deep gouges from a previous 70lb dog that we had at the time.. [embarassed]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6132
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2015, 01:02 PM »
Yep, the Clarkes need an edger.

Rotex or RAS will work in place of the edger. You'll still need a corner scraper. I prefer the pull type.

Tom

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 829
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2015, 01:50 PM »
Ok, thanks guys.  leakyroof - nice job!  I feel you on the "go with how it looks vs. schedule."  I guess it's woodworking after all, just on a larger scale.   [blink]

I'll definitely take photos, though in both cases the existing finish is doing quite well.  Both are cosmetic/aesthetic projects to go darker on the floor color.
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline PA floor guy

  • Posts: 290
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2015, 02:00 PM »
YOU NEED AN EDGER..  IF YOU WANT A PROFESSIONAL LOOKING AND FLAT FLOOR, YOU NEED AN EDGER. I HAVE 9 rotex's, they will not do the job of an edger.  You will also need a buffer, better yet a planetary machine. I believe you can rent a varathane model at lowes, and also a 3 disc Clarke machine at HD, these are the machines that will elevate your work.

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 829
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2015, 02:13 PM »
YOU NEED AN EDGER..  IF YOU WANT A PROFESSIONAL LOOKING AND FLAT FLOOR, YOU NEED AN EDGER. I HAVE 9 rotex's, they will not do the job of an edger.  You will also need a buffer, better yet a planetary machine. I believe you can rent a varathane model at lowes, and also a 3 disc Clarke machine at HD, these are the machines that will elevate your work.

ok, ok, no need to yell.   [eek]  [tongue]  [poke]

Point well-taken.
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2277
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2015, 04:47 PM »
You'll have to give PA Floor guy some slack, it's hootter than H*** here in Central PA, I had to work in Harrisburg today and even at 70 MPH I was melting

Offline Curt Boyer

  • Posts: 203
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2015, 09:45 PM »
You should try working in a non air conditioned row home in South Philly. It was cooler outside then inside today! Hopefully the electrican will get the a/c wiring sorted on Friday.
Cheers
Curt

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6132
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2015, 09:50 PM »
You should try working in a non air conditioned row home in South Philly. It was cooler outside then inside today! Hopefully the electrican will get the a/c wiring sorted on Friday.
Cheers
Curt

I made the mistake of turning down one of those streets in my Excursion, I could have reached out the windows and rung the door bells.

Tom

Offline Curt Boyer

  • Posts: 203
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2015, 07:57 PM »
Tom you should try a 16' box truck! Today I was pruning trees with the truck. At least there is good food in the neighborhood!
Cheers
Curt

Offline PA floor guy

  • Posts: 290
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2015, 09:22 PM »
Yes, it's hotter than heck here in northeast pa.  All in all, yea an edger is a must.  You can easily rent one at any tool rental place. Small learning curve, but you will figure it out.

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 829
Re: Flooring guys - refinish sanding
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2015, 02:16 AM »
Yes, it's hotter than heck here in northeast pa.  All in all, yea an edger is a must.  You can easily rent one at any tool rental place. Small learning curve, but you will figure it out.

Sorry fellas.  Can't imagine doing a flooring project in sweltering heat.
Tell ya what, swing out this way and give me a hand with my floors - the California weather won't disappoint.   [big grin]
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high