Author Topic: Fence panel joinery - requesting input  (Read 1061 times)

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Offline tomdog4

  • Posts: 13
Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« on: April 11, 2021, 01:54 AM »
We’re having about 60’ of hog wire fencing installed (hiring it out, I wish I had time to do it myself!). The contractor brought a sample panel over for approval, and while I like it and think it’d be fine, my wife has a (bordering on irrational) aversion to mitered corners.

My question: how would you join 2x4 cedar picture frames around hog wire without the miter? Our builder used a biscuit and screws to pull the glued miter together. I have some thoughts but I’ll leave them out to see what you all can conjure. Thank you!



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Offline CeeJay

  • Posts: 347
Re: Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2021, 08:33 AM »
I guess you could use a mortise and tenon? Floating mortise with a big domino?


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Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 497
Re: Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2021, 09:40 AM »
I would think that the whole point of doing this is to protect the end grain from the weather. It is far easier to seal edge grain of wood than the ends.
Personally, I would rather see Dominos and epoxy or some kind of polyurethane glue, for the same reason and skip the screws.
That screw, especially on the top, is breaking into the edgegrain. At bare minimum, I would sink them deeper and plug the holes.
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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5228
Re: Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2021, 10:56 AM »
Assuming the hog wire screen is welded, the cedar is just decorative, so there are many ways to go but not knowing how the panels fit into the overall fence structure (between taller posts, even with top of posts) inhibits suggestions.

Staying with 2x4 cedar frames, you could switch to rail and stile from the mitered frame. Full width rail overlapping stile. Use Kreg heavy duty pocket hole screw (the #14 made for 2x4 stuff) installed from the ends of the stiles so you don’t see the holes. Would be best to plug the lower holes but cedar is durable. That’s only 4 screws but those big Kreg screws really are impressive and I m assuming the hog wire is welded.

Offline Imemiter

  • Posts: 198
Re: Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2021, 12:38 PM »
What else is there but rail and stile butt joint? End grain up if there's a top rail. Otherwise, ends facing the posts. Epoxy the ends, Osmo UV everywhere else. 
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Offline Packard

  • Posts: 413
Re: Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2021, 11:30 AM »
I would use butt joints and dowels.

The guy is using corrugated fasteners, glue and a couple of screws. 

It will gain a lot of structure by being attached to the posts and the top and bottom rails.  But a wide joint like that in a miter outdoors will have so much seasonal movement that the glue will fail at some point.

I would sometimes see that in wide picture frames when I was in the framing business and those were indoors. 

I would prefer something along the rail and stile method.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4160
Re: Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2021, 01:29 PM »
I think I would use dominoes in a standard configuration for assembly, but add a lock domino at each corner after assembly with the end grain facing to the side, not up, to be better resistant to weathering. 
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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5228
Re: Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2021, 03:17 PM »
I would use butt joints and dowels.

The guy is using corrugated fasteners, glue and a couple of screws. 

It will gain a lot of structure by being attached to the posts and the top and bottom rails.  But a wide joint like that in a miter outdoors will have so much seasonal movement that the glue will fail at some point.

I would sometimes see that in wide picture frames when I was in the framing business and those were indoors. 

I would prefer something along the rail and stile method.

What looks like a corrugated fastener is just a pencil mark. It's just glue and very big screws, unless there are some other concealed tenons.

Offline Dane

  • Posts: 411
Re: Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2021, 03:29 PM »
Lap joint seems the way to go.  With exterior glue/epoxy and maybe some screws/dowels in the face.  I’ve used that for more than a couple exterior gates and haven’t seen a failure.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 413
Re: Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2021, 03:45 PM »
I have wood screens on my 1953 vintage windows.  The frames are about 2" x 1¼", and the window is 40" x 30".  It is all dowel construction using through dowels and rail and stile joints. 

They are likewise free from any racking stresses as they are held by the brick frame work.  They have screen material stapled on. 

I take them down each year and replace them with the storms.  So in that sense they have more abuse than the fence frames will experience. 

They are still quite rigid and they are made from Douglas fir. 

I did miss the pencil mark.  I thought it was a corrugated fastener. So thanks for that correction, Mike.

I still think the miters will open up and rail and stile configuration would  work better.




Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5228
Re: Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2021, 04:01 PM »
Been a while since I read the OP,

"Our builder used a biscuit and screws to pull the glued miter together."


Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8581
Re: Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2021, 04:27 PM »
FWIW...I feel lap joints, Dominos, rail & stile are all probably the least problematic while the miter joint is the most problematic, especially outdoors.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 413
Re: Fence panel joinery - requesting input
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2021, 04:45 PM »
The builder is going to use the fastest and most economical way to do this that he feels will last long enough so that he does not get a call-back.

So I think Dominoes are not likely for a builder, but more likely for a homeowner/hobby woodworker (or if you are featured on This Old House).  Tom Silva could get the kind of money those joints would require, but not the average builder.