Author Topic: Euro Hinge Fitting  (Read 11035 times)

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Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 515
Euro Hinge Fitting
« on: May 17, 2013, 04:42 AM »
I want to fit some Euro hinges and need a cutter to cut the 35mm recess in the doors. It seems to me that I have the choice of a) a Forstner type drill bit, b) a router cutter (I have a router) or c) using a template with a guide bush adapter. I am interested in the idea of buying one of these from Axminster:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-hole-and-corner-template-prod21824/?searchfor=template%20holes

as I have a suitable up spiral bit. The only problem is the closest I can get to 35mm is 36mm. Is this close enough or does it have to be an exact fit? If the template route doesn't work, is it better to use a drill bit (cheaper but I don't have a drill press) or a router cutter?

Cliff
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6628
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2013, 05:41 AM »
How much do you want to spend?
If you don't mind spending £100 or so get the proper hinge jigs brilliant!  I wouldn't bother with Axminster jig thing for just hinges. You can get one specific for euro hinges to use with your router or Forster bit


Yes does need to be a good fit makes life alot easier when fitting the door as a snug fit keeps the hinge in place and all you have to do then is make sure its square


 Also I believe a loose fit puts more strain on the hinge and litte screws.

Jmb
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 05:45 AM by jmbfestool »
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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6628
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2013, 05:51 AM »
Blum jig



Or

Hettich do one aswell similar!


Or you can simply just get

Something like this less advanced but it cheaper but alot less messing about than that Axminster thing you are looking at
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/concealedkits.htm


With the Axminster its a large plastic thing which is a pain but also it doesn't have location holes for the hinge screws which is really helpful to keep your hinges square to the door which is very important

Edited added
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 05:54 AM by jmbfestool »
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Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2013, 06:46 AM »
I disagree, I think you should get one of these,




My second......, no third........., well, one of my favorite tools in the shop!

Mike
"The only lessons I've learned worth remembering, were when things weren't going well"

"Who is John Galt?"

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3804
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2013, 06:50 AM »
Even a Blum Ecodrill would be a great option of you want to be consistent. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 515
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2013, 08:55 AM »
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1808
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2013, 09:17 AM »
It's going to depend on how many you want to do, and to a certain extent, the cost of the doors you are drilling; the more expensive the doors, the more expensive the mistakes!

If you're doing a few cheap doors, then sure, get a plastic guide and a drill bit but be very careful about the depth you drill to so that you don't pierce the face of the door.

If you're doing more than a few doors, or the doors are quite expensive, then you may want to consider a jig. When I fitted my kitchen, I bought a Hettich jig that drills the 35mm hole (and two 8mm holes for the plastic dowels) that has great depth adjustment, clamps, and cams for setting the offset from the door side. It's surplus to requirements now though because of the next option...

And finally, if you're producing cabinets as well, then it may be worth investing in the LR-32 kit. Again, depends on volume and cost of components, but something to consider.

I'm guessing from your links that you don't have more than a few inexpensive doors to cut the holes in. Prior to the kitchen fitting, I've used a 35mm Forstner bit and a 35mm TCT router bit with some success. You say you don't have a drill press but do have a router, so that, and maybe a home made jig, might suffice. If you're going to be drilling, you really need to be spot on on the vertical plane or you need a drill dress (or adapter for your hand drill).

86910-0

86912-1

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 515
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2013, 09:58 AM »
GarryMartin

Thanks for the response. From what you're saying (I think) I ought to get a router cutter. There is one form Wealden that has a centre point for alignment (or I could create a jig by routing through a bit of thinnish wood) so I could position the recess in the correct place. I have the Centrotec self centring drill bit so I suppose I can drill the holes in the right place using the hinge as a guide. THe doors are going to be quite expensive as I am going to make them out of solid oak with drawer pulls on the bottom.
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1808
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2013, 10:10 AM »
For the best quality vs. price trade-off, and given everything you've mentioned in the thread, I'd create a jig and use a 35mm router cutter, and then as you suggest, use the hinge and your Centrotec self-centering bit for the other holes.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6061
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2013, 10:19 AM »
I prefer this one over all the other bench top type boring systems. It bores the cup hole and fastener holes at the same time.

http://www.amazon.com/CMT-CMT333-03-Universal-Boring-System/dp/B0017Q1WYO/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt

Tom

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6628
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2013, 11:24 AM »
Going from your expensive taste  with the CMT bench euro jig. Then you might want to be looking at the Blum or hettich jigs.   I think bench jigs are good but they take up room and require you to take the door to the jig.     The Blum or hettich u take the jig to the door .   This is handy for few reasons!   If you have a larger door to do its easier unless u have a large bench setup but also if ur on a job u can take ur the jig with you.  

If ur going to be doing alot of doors yes get a bench version if not a portable one would be better.  You can stick it in a draw and it wont be taking up workshop space.
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Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 515
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2013, 11:32 AM »
I am only doing 3 doors so I think I'll pass on the expensive bench mounted euro jig!
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3220
Re: Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2013, 11:57 AM »
Cliff , I use one of these in a router with a homemade jig. It's quick and dust free with my of 1010 and midi.

 http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Hinge_Boring_26.html

I've used wealdens for years , their cutters are the best quality I've ever seen but at very good prices.

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 515
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2013, 12:24 PM »
joiner1970, Thats exactly the one I was going to go for. I too have ordered loads of cutters from Wealden and they are fantastic quality, very good value and they deliver very quickly.
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3220
Re: Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2013, 12:36 PM »
Not teaching you to suck eggs or anything but make sure you run it at a slower speed.

All my jig is , is a small peice of mdf that the router attaches to with a fence so you can clamp the router to the door. In practice though I've found you don't really need to clamp it down as it doesn't move once you start plunging.

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 515
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2013, 12:52 PM »
Thanks for the pointer about speed. I was aware of the need to use lower speeds with large bits but I am inexperienced and have made mistakes. A few weeks ago I was using a router sled to thickness some strips of oak. I hadn't clamped them down sufficiently and the router (using a large diameter morticing bottom cutter) chewed up some strips and flung them in my crotch cutting the end of my manhood a tiny bit. The injury was trivial but it could obviously have been far worse.
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6061
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2013, 12:52 PM »
Going from your expensive taste  with the CMT bench euro jig. Then you might want to be looking at the Blum or hettich jigs.   I think bench jigs are good but they take up room and require you to take the door to the jig.     The Blum or hettich u take the jig to the door .   This is handy for few reasons!   If you have a larger door to do its easier unless u have a large bench setup but also if ur on a job u can take ur the jig with you.  

If ur going to be doing alot of doors yes get a bench version if not a portable one would be better.  You can stick it in a draw and it wont be taking up workshop space.

(If this is directed at me)

The CMT I posted is the same size as the Blum, the advantage it has, all 3 holes are drilled at the same time from from 1 spindle. I've used the Blum, and Summerfield, waste of time going from spindle to spindle. Never used a Hettich. The one Old School shows does not appear to bore the fastener holes either. To me, a waste of time having to set up and drill those additional holes. Also I can change the head on the CMT for the Grass hinges that have a different hole pattern.

I agree for just 3 doors this is not the answer. Make a jig or use something like this;

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5878

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18060&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=CJmkgKnNnbcCFZFcMgodDm0Ajg

Both of which I have used and still own. Had to start somewhere.

Tom



« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 12:55 PM by tjbnwi »

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3220
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2013, 01:33 PM »
Thanks for the pointer about speed. I was aware of the need to use lower speeds with large bits but I am inexperienced and have made mistakes. A few weeks ago I was using a router sled to thickness some strips of oak. I hadn't clamped them down sufficiently and the router (using a large diameter morticing bottom cutter) chewed up some strips and flung them in my crotch cutting the end of my manhood a tiny bit. The injury was trivial but it could obviously have been far worse.

ouch  [eek]

Offline polarsea1

  • Posts: 294
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2013, 05:13 PM »
I used this before buying an Ecodrill

Blum Inserta Jig

Bore the 35mm hole, place the jig on the hole then bore the 8mm holes, also can be used to drill the mounting plate holes.

I've got my eye on the CMT drilling machine as well, thanks for the feedback on that.

Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2013, 05:38 PM »
. The one Old School shows does not appear to bore the fastener holes either. To me, a waste of time having to set up and drill those additional holes.


It will, I just use a few different hinges, and find it faster to not swap out the setup.
This one will also drill and press in the hinges for the ones with attached bushings, if that's what you want.
 I guarantee you I can drill more doors in less time than with your setup, even if I use a cordless and a vix bit for the screw holes. My last cabinet run of 32 doors took me less than 5 min to drill all hinge cups.

Mike
"The only lessons I've learned worth remembering, were when things weren't going well"

"Who is John Galt?"

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7363
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2013, 07:17 PM »
. The one Old School shows does not appear to bore the fastener holes either. To me, a waste of time having to set up and drill those additional holes.


It will, I just use a few different hinges, and find it faster to not swap out the setup.
This one will also drill and press in the hinges for the ones with attached bushings, if that's what you want.
 I guarantee you I can drill more doors in less time than with your setup, even if I use a cordless and a vix bit for the screw holes. My last cabinet run of 32 doors took me less than 5 min to drill all hinge cups.

Mike

In five minutes and assuming two hinges per door, that would come to 4.68 seconds per cup hole......
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7363
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2013, 07:21 PM »
I used this before buying an Ecodrill

Blum Inserta Jig

Bore the 35mm hole, place the jig on the hole then bore the 8mm holes, also can be used to drill the mounting plate holes.

I've got my eye on the CMT drilling machine as well, thanks for the feedback on that.

Very interesting.  I noticed a newer version when I just looked at these.  INSERTA drilling template 65.059A
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2013, 09:19 PM »

In five minutes and assuming two hinges per door, that would come to 4.68 seconds per cup hole......


I didn't say it was only my hands doing the work [thumbs up] It helps to have 3 shop helpers and willing hands. It could have been 6 min..... [scratch chin]

Mike
"The only lessons I've learned worth remembering, were when things weren't going well"

"Who is John Galt?"

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6628
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2013, 10:59 PM »
Going from your expensive taste  with the CMT bench euro jig. Then you might want to be looking at the Blum or hettich jigs.   I think bench jigs are good but they take up room and require you to take the door to the jig.     The Blum or hettich u take the jig to the door .   This is handy for few reasons!   If you have a larger door to do its easier unless u have a large bench setup but also if ur on a job u can take ur the jig with you.  

If ur going to be doing alot of doors yes get a bench version if not a portable one would be better.  You can stick it in a draw and it wont be taking up workshop space.

(If this is directed at me)

The CMT I posted is the same size as the Blum, the advantage it has, all 3 holes are drilled at the same time from from 1 spindle. I've used the Blum, and Summerfield, waste of time going from spindle to spindle. Never used a Hettich. The one Old School shows does not appear to bore the fastener holes either. To me, a waste of time having to set up and drill those additional holes. Also I can change the head on the CMT for the Grass hinges that have a different hole pattern.

I agree for just 3 doors this is not the answer. Make a jig or use something like this;

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5878

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18060&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=CJmkgKnNnbcCFZFcMgodDm0Ajg

Both of which I have used and still own. Had to start somewhere.

Tom






Oops my mistake no it wasn't directed at you!!  Some reason I had it in my head it was from original poster that post. 

Don't know why only noticed my mistake when u said if this is directed at me. It confused me for a second!
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Offline polarsea1

  • Posts: 294
Re: Euro Hinge Fitting
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2013, 01:35 AM »
I used this before buying an Ecodrill

Blum Inserta Jig

Bore the 35mm hole, place the jig on the hole then bore the 8mm holes, also can be used to drill the mounting plate holes.

I've got my eye on the CMT drilling machine as well, thanks for the feedback on that.

Very interesting.  I noticed a newer version when I just looked at these.  INSERTA drilling template 65.059A

That's even better!