Author Topic: Plumbing issue  (Read 6003 times)

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Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1173
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Plumbing issue
« on: January 08, 2015, 08:36 PM »
So I get home from work this afternoon and I get to deal with a toilet issue.  We have a dual flush toilet, when I flushed the toilet, the water wouldn't drain like usual, and the tank wouldn't refill.  I took off the braided water line from the valve to the tank, and no water came out at the valve.  With the temperatures being so cold, I am guessing the line is frozen.  The copper pipe comes up from the unfinished basement along the outside wall of the house.  I am going to get pipe insulation tomorrow to avoid any potential issues in the future.

Could my issue be anything else?

Thanks
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6655
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2015, 08:44 PM »
Frozen pipe.

A frozen pipe will never leak---when it thaws it could be an issue. Wouldn't be the first split copper pipe I've seen.

Tom

Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1173
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2015, 08:50 PM »
Thanks Tom.  I hate old houses. 
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline land_kel

  • Posts: 157
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2015, 08:51 PM »
Any way of getting some heat in that crawl space to slowly un thaw that line. Is it copper? With the new plastic "PEX" it may not crack so if the existing is split, maybe replace it with the pex.
Lots of stuff

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4184
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2015, 09:04 PM »
Thanks Tom.  I hate old houses.

It's not the houses fault the water line is in an outside wall.

Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1173
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2015, 09:07 PM »
I spent some time with a hair dryer going along the copper line that I could get to.  The line also goes out into the unheated garage, but those pipes were wrapped with foil wrapped insulation.  I think the 8" block wall is where my issue is and I can't get access.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1173
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2015, 09:12 PM »
Thanks Tom.  I hate old houses.

It's not the houses fault the water line is in an outside wall.

I know, it is a product of who added the bathroom along the outside wall before we moved in.  Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about that, unless I tear out the entire back of the house, expand the footprint, rebuild and insulate.  Got a spare $75,000 laying around?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 09:17 PM by Wooden Skye »
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6655
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2015, 09:15 PM »
Any chance you can relocate the feed through the floor?

Tom

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 587
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2015, 09:26 PM »
Probably know this but leave open ALL faucets/supplies that arent working so that pressure doesn't buildup and split the pipe.

Also if you think your issue is inside the 8" block wall then you could cut the pipe back say a foot on both sides of the wall. Chisel out a larger diameter opening in he block so that you can slide a new piece of copper that is already wrapped through the block. Leave yourself enough space on each end to solder in new joints and then wrap everything up. Just my 2 rubles.

Edit: I just saw your in NJ too. It doesn't get cold enough here to blow up plumbing in an exterior wall as long as there isn't a draft hitting it so it must be the basement. A draft across a pipe can make it freeze quickly so make sure your theres nowhere that is happening.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 09:30 PM by rizzoa13 »

Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1173
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2015, 09:28 PM »
Any chance you can relocate the feed through the floor?

Tom

Unfortunately I don't think I am able to.  If I tried to go off the lines to the upstairs, I would not even be in the bathroom.  The hot and cold for the faucet work fine, and are about 8" away from the copper line for the toilet.  The toilet line is branched off the cold line for the faucet. 

I guess I need to cross my fingers that as the temperature starts to rise tomorrow nothing cracks and I can do my best to insulate the best I can.



Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 587
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2015, 09:32 PM »
Wait so the cold water line for the faucet works fine? And the toilet is fed from that line inside the walls of the bathroom not tee'ed off inside the basement?

Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1173
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2015, 09:36 PM »
Probably know this but leave open ALL faucets/supplies that arent working so that pressure doesn't buildup and split the pipe.

Also if you think your issue is inside the 8" block wall then you could cut the pipe back say a foot on both sides of the wall. Chisel out a larger diameter opening in he block so that you can slide a new piece of copper that is already wrapped through the block. Leave yourself enough space on each end to solder in new joints and then wrap everything up. Just my 2 rubles.

The line and valve is open. That is a good thought, but according to the misses, probably above my pay grade.  If this keeps happening, I will need to take this approach. 

Yes the cold line for the faucet works fine.  The branch off/tee is in the basement, then all 3 lines go through the block wall into the unheated garage, then up through the floor into the bathroom.

On Sunday it was 60 degrees, yesterday and today have been around 15 degrees and with the windchill below zero. 
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6655
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2015, 09:39 PM »
Probably know this but leave open ALL faucets/supplies that arent working so that pressure doesn't buildup and split the pipe.

Also if you think your issue is inside the 8" block wall then you could cut the pipe back say a foot on both sides of the wall. Chisel out a larger diameter opening in he block so that you can slide a new piece of copper that is already wrapped through the block. Leave yourself enough space on each end to solder in new joints and then wrap everything up. Just my 2 rubles.

Edit: I just saw your in NJ too. It doesn't get cold enough here to blow up plumbing in an exterior wall as long as there isn't a draft hitting it so it must be the basement. A draft across a pipe can make it freeze quickly so make sure your theres nowhere that is happening.

It's not pressure that splits the pipe, it is the expansion of the water as it freezes.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6655
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2015, 09:42 PM »
Probably know this but leave open ALL faucets/supplies that arent working so that pressure doesn't buildup and split the pipe.

Also if you think your issue is inside the 8" block wall then you could cut the pipe back say a foot on both sides of the wall. Chisel out a larger diameter opening in he block so that you can slide a new piece of copper that is already wrapped through the block. Leave yourself enough space on each end to solder in new joints and then wrap everything up. Just my 2 rubles.

The line and valve is open. That is a good thought, but according to the misses, probably above my pay grade.  If this keeps happening, I will need to take this approach. 

Yes the cold line for the faucet works fine.  The branch off/tee is in the basement, then all 3 lines go through the block wall into the unheated garage, then up through the floor into the bathroom.

On Sunday it was 60 degrees, yesterday and today have been around 15 degrees and with the windchill below zero.

If the valve is open make sure someone is home watching it. It would suck to have the pipe thaw with the valve open and no one home to catch the water flow.

You can still use the bathroom, fill a bucket with water, when you're done dump a gallon of water in the bowl. It will act as if you flushed the toilet.

Tom

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 587
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2015, 09:43 PM »
Yes expansion and nowhere for it to go. Thank you Cpt. Semantics

Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1173
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2015, 09:50 PM »
Probably know this but leave open ALL faucets/supplies that arent working so that pressure doesn't buildup and split the pipe.

Also if you think your issue is inside the 8" block wall then you could cut the pipe back say a foot on both sides of the wall. Chisel out a larger diameter opening in he block so that you can slide a new piece of copper that is already wrapped through the block. Leave yourself enough space on each end to solder in new joints and then wrap everything up. Just my 2 rubles.

The line and valve is open. That is a good thought, but according to the misses, probably above my pay grade.  If this keeps happening, I will need to take this approach. 

Yes the cold line for the faucet works fine.  The branch off/tee is in the basement, then all 3 lines go through the block wall into the unheated garage, then up through the floor into the bathroom.

On Sunday it was 60 degrees, yesterday and today have been around 15 degrees and with the windchill below zero.

If the valve is open make sure someone is home watching it. It would suck to have the pipe thaw with the valve open and no one home to catch the water flow.

You can still use the bathroom, fill a bucket with water, when you're done dump a gallon of water in the bowl. It will act as if you flushed the toilet.

Tom

I think I misspoke, the valve is open, but the braided line is connected at the valve and to the tank.  So if it thawed, the tank should fill like normal.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6655
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2015, 09:52 PM »
Yes expansion and nowhere for it to go. Thank you Cpt. Semantics

It has someplace to go- through the pipe. Will happen whether the pipe is under pressure or not.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6655
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2015, 09:52 PM »
Probably know this but leave open ALL faucets/supplies that arent working so that pressure doesn't buildup and split the pipe.

Also if you think your issue is inside the 8" block wall then you could cut the pipe back say a foot on both sides of the wall. Chisel out a larger diameter opening in he block so that you can slide a new piece of copper that is already wrapped through the block. Leave yourself enough space on each end to solder in new joints and then wrap everything up. Just my 2 rubles.

The line and valve is open. That is a good thought, but according to the misses, probably above my pay grade.  If this keeps happening, I will need to take this approach. 

Yes the cold line for the faucet works fine.  The branch off/tee is in the basement, then all 3 lines go through the block wall into the unheated garage, then up through the floor into the bathroom.

On Sunday it was 60 degrees, yesterday and today have been around 15 degrees and with the windchill below zero.

If the valve is open make sure someone is home watching it. It would suck to have the pipe thaw with the valve open and no one home to catch the water flow.

You can still use the bathroom, fill a bucket with water, when you're done dump a gallon of water in the bowl. It will act as if you flushed the toilet.

Tom

I think I misspoke, the valve is open, but the braided line is connected at the valve and to the tank.  So if it thawed, the tank should fill like normal.

Got it.

Tom

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1988
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2015, 07:34 AM »
Sounds like justification for that new garage heater!   [wink]. I don't think the wall is your problem. Those other lines running into the garage will be next unless you put a heat source in there (even parking a warm engine will help).  Ultimately you've got to keep the water line in conditioned spaces or the warm side of insulated cavities.  As a stop gap, get a heat source in the garage and if you've been thinking about insulating, do it.
-Raj

Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1173
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2015, 11:32 AM »
Sounds like justification for that new garage heater!   [wink]. I don't think the wall is your problem. Those other lines running into the garage will be next unless you put a heat source in there (even parking a warm engine will help).  Ultimately you've got to keep the water line in conditioned spaces or the warm side of insulated cavities.  As a stop gap, get a heat source in the garage and if you've been thinking about insulating, do it.

I am going to put pipe insulation around all the pipes I can get to in the basement, then I will go to the garage and do the same thing there.  Plus I am going to get some regular insulation, and hopefully can insulate in the ceiling joists of the garage.  I have a small heater which I will turn on for a bit.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline itasor

  • Posts: 45
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2015, 01:17 PM »
What about some heat tape that you wrap around the pipe and plug into an outlet in the garage. That should do it and I think some even have thermostats to save electricity when it's not cold.

Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1173
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2015, 02:16 PM »
What about some heat tape that you wrap around the pipe and plug into an outlet in the garage. That should do it and I think some even have thermostats to save electricity when it's not cold.

Never seen or heard anything like that before.  Is this something you would find at a home improvement store?  Not sure if this would be the route I would choose, but would certainly look into it.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline itasor

  • Posts: 45
Re: Plumbing issue
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2015, 02:29 PM »
What about some heat tape that you wrap around the pipe and plug into an outlet in the garage. That should do it and I think some even have thermostats to save electricity when it's not cold.

Never seen or heard anything like that before.  Is this something you would find at a home improvement store?  Not sure if this would be the route I would choose, but would certainly look into it.

Yes, just go to Lowes.com and search for "heat tape". Comes in many lengths and is commonly how people resolve the issues you're experiencing (around here anyway). I wouldn't use it as a permanent fix either (though lots of people do), but it may get you through the winter while you think of a better permanent fix!