Author Topic: Doing better at installing wall cabinets  (Read 3769 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 525
Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« on: March 22, 2021, 08:36 AM »
I have made several sets in the last year for my garage as well as my wife's sewing room.  I am almost done with another set of wall cabinets for her.  I have always had issues with the walls bowing, etc.  I don't have the experience to know what to do with each situation so I just sit and stare at it until a thought comes.  I remember reading an article over the last 6 months where an installer said he rips 1/4" ply into 1-1/2" wide strips and attaches them to the sheetrock, over the studs.  Usually that 'build-out' overcomes most of the wall bowing out.

Does that make sense?

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4160
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2021, 08:43 AM »
One nice thing about using french cleats is that you can shim them out as needed to get them dead-straight cabinet alignment.  If you were doing base cabinets, I'd suggest using Space Plugs, but french cleats are great for hanging cabinets.
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6404
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2021, 09:11 AM »
Do not make the cabinets with the back flush to the sides, if you do.

As Sparky mentioned, a french cleat.

We recesses the back 3/4", our uppers are 13-3/4 deep. You can see the recess and the cleat in the attached pic. Yes, the cabinet is upside down in the pic.

We use a 30º angle on the cleat rip instead of a 45.

Tom

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1054
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2021, 09:25 AM »
If you put the french cleat on the cabinet, and the back is recessed 3/4" and the french cleat sits inside that 3/4" recess, does that make hanging a bank of wall cabinets problematic? Wouldn't you need to hang the mating pieces on the wall exactly where the cabinets need to go?

Do you just cut mating cleats undersized that are going on the wall to allow a little wiggle room for placement?
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Distinctive Interiors

  • Posts: 407
  • Modern Kitchen Specialist
    • distinterior.com
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2021, 09:33 AM »
Welcome to the 21st century....

https://www.hafele.co.uk/en/product/concealed-cabinet-hanger-dowel-screw-mounting-libra-h3/000000fd0002584400010023/

French cleats have their place, but for hanging wall cabinets such as kitchen wall units and such, the  bracket/hanger above is a far more modern and in my opinion better adjustable method. There are plenty of variations of this type of hanger available to suit many different applications.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 09:35 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 525
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2021, 10:12 AM »
Thanks Willy, I jumped over to YT to look for more options.

Thanks Tom.  On my cabinets I always route a 6mm groove, 18mm inset from the back, which I think is what you are saying.  Picture below.  I use that space to mount my 'nailer'.  I assume that now I cut the angle on that nailer to use as my cleat?

I am doing 4, 30" uppers here.  It becomes obvious that I either need to hang 4 cleats (roughly 27" long), all in a straight line and hang each cabinet on its respective cleat.  I saw one video where the guy had 1 continuous cleat and he notched out the backs of the cabinet sides, on all but the ends as shown in the other picture.  Thats my next thing to figure out.329390-0

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8567
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2021, 10:57 AM »

We use a 30º angle on the cleat rip instead of a 45º.


Tom, is the reason for using a 30º cleat because it will be easier to move the cabinet at a later date?

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6404
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2021, 12:47 PM »
If you put the french cleat on the cabinet, and the back is recessed 3/4" and the french cleat sits inside that 3/4" recess, does that make hanging a bank of wall cabinets problematic? Wouldn't you need to hang the mating pieces on the wall exactly where the cabinets need to go?

Do you just cut mating cleats undersized that are going on the wall to allow a little wiggle room for placement?

Expand the posted pic, you will see the mating/wall piece is about 2” short of the inside of the side cabinet panel for a total of about 4” short.

It’s not unusual for us to hang 12’ of wall cabinet as a single unit made in the shop.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6404
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2021, 12:48 PM »

We use a 30º angle on the cleat rip instead of a 45º.


Tom, is the reason for using a 30º cleat because it will be easier to move the cabinet at a later date?

The box slides around a little easier, it does not jamb as much as a 45º rip. Being a very lazy guy, the easier I can make it the better.

Tom

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1596
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2021, 01:06 PM »
329398-0

+1 for French cleats and notching the partitions. 

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 525
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2021, 01:28 PM »
Tom, if my cleat is a little shorter than the inside of my cabinet back, how do you attach them to the cabinet?  Pocket hole them to the top of the underside of the cabinet?

I thought I had this figured out until I realize that when I use a regular nailer, top and bottom, they are cut exactly the width of the inside and I pocket hole them to the sides of the cabinet.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1054
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2021, 01:40 PM »
Tom's pic is a bit hard to see but I thought he cut the part of the cleat that goes onto the wall 2" short per side. The cleat that is attached to the cabinet is full width between the sides.

I would think in any situation, you'd want the nailers attached to the cabinet sides and not the tops and bottoms alone.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 525
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2021, 01:50 PM »
Tom's pic is a bit hard to see but I thought he cut the part of the cleat that goes onto the wall 2" short per side. The cleat that is attached to the cabinet is full width between the sides.

I would think in any situation, you'd want the nailers attached to the cabinet sides and not the tops and bottoms alone.

Yep, as soon as I read this, I had the ah-ha moment.  So now I need to recut some material for the cabinet side... 

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6404
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2021, 02:10 PM »
The cabinet piece is cut full width, it is screwed through the back and into the top of the cabinet with 3” GRK RSS screws, the ends are pocket screwed to the sides. The wall piece is installed with 3-1/8” GRK cabinet screws.

This is one the cleats did no good for long term support but allowed the working time I needed. The cleats were glued to the wall, then the cab to ceiling supports were fitted. My concern was not the construction adhesive letting go but the wall surface peeling off the wall substrate.

Imagine the second photo flipped over......

Tom

Offline JeremyH.

  • Posts: 313
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2021, 02:49 PM »
If all the faces are screwed together you can use shims to support the gaps if they're significant. Otherwise just tag it in and it'll be fine. The backside of cabinets are a little more malleable than the front, especially if they have some gaps between them. The most important factor is that the faces are are flush where ever they need to be. If you want to use cleats at the ends, that aren't different than the nailer go for it.

A cleat all the way across only works if it's straight, which means you might have to shim it. You can't scribe because then the cabinet would have to be scribed as well.

It's up to you to decide the tricky stuff like corner cabinets and which side might start floating farther and need some more/less shimming on the nailer.



I'm not sure I understand the cabinet hanger from Haffle. I'd like to see a photo or video. No matter what perfectly flush faces are the ideal and that's why I always do that before putting them up. (if they aren't built together, which makes all of this even easier except getting to location and needing two or more bodies at times)
CXS;RO150;ETS EC 125/3 EQ;CT26e  KSS400;MT55cc;DDF 40

Offline Distinctive Interiors

  • Posts: 407
  • Modern Kitchen Specialist
    • distinterior.com
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2021, 03:45 PM »
I should have elaborated a bit more as the link I put up is one possible half of the cabinet hanging system.....

https://www.hafele.co.uk/en/product/cabinet-hanger-wall-rail-galvanized-steel/0000003900011fc500020023/

This is one example of the possible other half that actually fixes to the wall and enables the cabinet to be lifted on and then the adjustable hangers hook onto it. There are loads of different options for long lengths, individual plates of even hooks that can be fitted with that funny looking hook driver attachment in the Festool Sys 1 CE Sort kit....

« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 04:02 PM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4160
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2021, 04:39 PM »
It becomes obvious that I either need to hang 4 cleats (roughly 27" long), all in a straight line and hang each cabinet on its respective cleat.  I saw one video where the guy had 1 continuous cleat and he notched out the backs of the cabinet sides, on all but the ends as shown in the other picture.  Thats my next thing to figure out.

I prefer to use single-piece, continuous cleats to keep everything properly aligned, and yes, cabinet sides are notched for the cleats, except for the end cabinets in a run.  The cleat is cut a bit short to allow for an uncut cabinet side.  I also use what I call lock screws that go through the cabinet back, just below where the fixed cleat is.  This screw keeps the cabinets from being accidentally bumped up and off the cleats, but allows the cabinets to be slid right and left as needed. 
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 525
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2021, 06:04 PM »
I also use what I call lock screws that go through the cabinet back, just below where the fixed cleat is.  This screw keeps the cabinets from being accidentally bumped up and off the cleats, but allows the cabinets to be slid right and left as needed.
Thank you Willy.  Do you have any more specifics on these screws?  Links or anything?  Appreciate it.


Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2118
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2021, 11:46 PM »
I like the lock screw idea Sparktrician. I will use that in the future.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6404
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2021, 11:59 PM »
We run the screw down through the cabinet mounted cleat into the wall mounted cleat. Obviously you need the clearance to the ceiling to make this work.

Tom

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4160
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2021, 09:07 AM »
I also use what I call lock screws that go through the cabinet back, just below where the fixed cleat is.  This screw keeps the cabinets from being accidentally bumped up and off the cleats, but allows the cabinets to be slid right and left as needed.
Thank you Willy.  Do you have any more specifics on these screws?  Links or anything?  Appreciate it.


There's nothing special about these screws, although GRK screws aren't configured right to work in this circumstance due to the absence of threads right under the head.  I generally use sheet metal screws with a pan head and turn them in by hand so they don't strip out the cabinet back and leave ugly holes.  The object here is to set the screw low enough that it doesn't contact the fixed cleat, and it doesn't contact the wall surface either.  You want to use a screw that is long enough to get under the fixed cleat to prevent the cabinet from being lifted off the cleat accidentally, yet short enough that if the cabinet is slid right or left, the screw won't drag on the wall and leave a trench.  You'll need to select a screw that penetrates the cabinet back and is long enough to accommodate the thickness of the cleat attached to the cabinet.  You get the picture.  Tom noted earlier that he cuts the cleat at 30 degrees to make sliding cabinets easier.  I've sometimes used a wipe of beeswax on the mating surface of the cleats for the same reason, although I use a 45 decree cut. 
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 404
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2021, 09:26 AM »
Or use Ikea's mounting system.  Fairly cheap at $11.00 US$ for an 84" long section.  With the price of lumber lately that is probably cheaper than making a French cleat.  I am not sure if they sell the clips separately.


Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1054
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2021, 09:34 AM »
@Sparktrician Those locking screws become a moot point if the cleat is only there to aid in installation, correct? Since you would be driving GRK cabinet screws through the cabinet cleat into studs at the top cleat and the bottom nailer for a permanent install.

Thanks,
Matt
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4160
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2021, 10:01 AM »
@Sparktrician Those locking screws become a moot point if the cleat is only there to aid in installation, correct? Since you would be driving GRK cabinet screws through the cabinet cleat into studs at the top cleat and the bottom nailer for a permanent install.

Thanks,
Matt


Actually, no, Matt.  The locking screw's purpose is to keep the cabinet from being accidentally moved up and off the cleats.  The cleats are anchored to studs using cabinet screws, shimmed as necessary if the wall wants to wander.  The weight of the cabinet keeps it on the cleats in most circumstances.  Also, no cabinet is mounted using less than two cleats.  I typically set fixed cleats starting at 12" AFF, and every 18" thereafter (30", 48", 60" and 78" AFF).  In your situation, I'd set two cleats, one at 60" AFF and one at 78" AFF.  Mount cleats to your cabinets such that you get the desired cabinet height. 
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 404
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2021, 10:10 AM »
@Sparktrician Those locking screws become a moot point if the cleat is only there to aid in installation, correct? Since you would be driving GRK cabinet screws through the cabinet cleat into studs at the top cleat and the bottom nailer for a permanent install.

Thanks,
Matt

I've made a vanity with 27" legs on the front and no legs in the rear.  I attached the rear using a French cleat.  Since the vanity is just for make-up and there was not plumbing involved, I wanted to make it easily removable if I needed to refinish it.  So instead of using screws, I drilled holes and slid in nails with heads.  It was a friction fit and the nails will not easily back out.  They will prevent up-lift and potentially crashing to the floor.

Normally almost any light-duty screw will suffice to keep the cabinet attached to the cleat as long as it is long enough to reach the cleat.  It does not have to hit a stud.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1054
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2021, 10:31 AM »
@Sparktrician Those locking screws become a moot point if the cleat is only there to aid in installation, correct? Since you would be driving GRK cabinet screws through the cabinet cleat into studs at the top cleat and the bottom nailer for a permanent install.

Thanks,
Matt



Actually, no, Matt.  The locking screw's purpose is to keep the cabinet from being accidentally moved up and off the cleats.  The cleats are anchored to studs using cabinet screws, shimmed as necessary if the wall wants to wander.  The weight of the cabinet keeps it on the cleats in most circumstances.  Also, no cabinet is mounted using less than two cleats.  I typically set fixed cleats starting at 12" AFF, and every 18" thereafter (30", 48", 60" and 78" AFF).  In your situation, I'd set two cleats, one at 60" AFF and one at 78" AFF.  Mount cleats to your cabinets such that you get the desired cabinet height.

I think I get it now. When you do your french cleat cabinets, you're relying entirely on the french cleat (or multiple french cleats) for mounting of the cabinets. No screws other than your locking screws go through the cabinet back.

Whereas what I was thinking was to use the cleat as an installation aid. Set the cabinet on the cleat, position it, and screw through the back, into the cabinet cleat, into the strip and/or a stud.

I've been known to be dense so if I'm still not getting it I wouldn't be surprised.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5228
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2021, 11:58 AM »
Or use Ikea's mounting system.  Fairly cheap at $11.00 US$ for an 84" long section.  With the price of lumber lately that is probably cheaper than making a French cleat.  I am not sure if they sell the clips separately.



Go to the parts department. Sometimes they give them to you for free. It is a very practical system.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 404
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2021, 12:16 PM »
You can put a cleat under the cabinets but then would have to remove it and repair the damage to the wall or cover it with a backsplash.

There are various cabinet jacks that make this work easy. 

https://thehomewoodworker.com/cabinet-jacks/

Offline Stan Tillinghast

  • Posts: 197
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2021, 12:46 PM »
Thanks for posting the IKEA rail installation video, and thanks for the link to the FastCap Upper Hand jacks. I was looking at those in the hardwood & hardware store.
I’m planning to install some high cabinets in the garage—by myself—and those look like a great help.
The IKEA rail video demonstrated that the cabinets do fine with just one rail; although I would want to fasten the rails at the studs.
Für uns...ist das Beste gerade gut genug!

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4160
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2021, 02:30 PM »
I think I get it now. When you do your french cleat cabinets, you're relying entirely on the french cleat (or multiple french cleats) for mounting of the cabinets. No screws other than your locking screws go through the cabinet back.
 

Actually, the screws that tie the movable cleats to the cabinet go through the cabinet back, as well as the locking screw. 

I've been known to be dense so if I'm still not getting it I wouldn't be surprised.


I'm not buying that one...   [big grin]
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 404
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2021, 03:41 PM »
Fastcap makes cabinet jacks.  The tall ones sell at $82.00 a pair; the short ones at $32.00 per pair.  The short ones require that there be lower cabinets for them to rest on.  The tall ones will not work if the lower cabinets are already installed.

The first video shows how it works.  The 2nd video is more detailed.





In the USA Woodworkers Express is a competitive and reliable supplier (at least from my experience).

https://www.woodworkerexpress.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 2118
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2021, 08:48 PM »
Another idea for locking French cleats.

-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline JeremyH.

  • Posts: 313
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2021, 11:13 PM »
Cabinet jacks are trash. You want T-jacks.
CXS;RO150;ETS EC 125/3 EQ;CT26e  KSS400;MT55cc;DDF 40

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 404
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2021, 08:33 AM »
I was not familiar with the T-Jacks.  Thanks for that.

https://www.rockler.com/t-jacks-brains-over-brawn-in-cabinet-installation

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 404
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2021, 08:36 AM »
Another idea for locking French cleats.



I could not be 100% sure, but it looked like he made the cleats from plywood.  Conceptually, I am not a fan of using plywood for French cleats.  The strips are fairly narrow and plywood in narrow strips can delaminate much easier than large pieces.  Also the stresses on the cleat can easily be in the direction that would cause a strip to delaminate. 

Other than that, I thought it was very clever.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8567
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2021, 09:34 AM »
I could not be 100% sure, but it looked like he made the cleats from plywood.  Conceptually, I am not a fan of using plywood for French cleats.  The strips are fairly narrow and plywood in narrow strips can delaminate much easier than large pieces.  Also the stresses on the cleat can easily be in the direction that would cause a strip to delaminate. 

Other than that, I thought it was very clever.

Thanks for the video...it is a clever idea for those items that you may be moving.  I also wouldn't recommend plywood but for the little items & doo-dads that he's hanging I'm sure he'll be fine.

Offline JeremyH.

  • Posts: 313
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2021, 12:42 PM »
I was not familiar with the T-Jacks.  Thanks for that.

https://www.rockler.com/t-jacks-brains-over-brawn-in-cabinet-installation

The precision makes all the difference. Plus you can pull them up to position much faster.
CXS;RO150;ETS EC 125/3 EQ;CT26e  KSS400;MT55cc;DDF 40

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 404
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2021, 12:51 PM »
These guys made their own cabinet jacks using pipe clamps.  Looks clever.


Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4160
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2021, 02:25 PM »
I could not be 100% sure, but it looked like he made the cleats from plywood.  Conceptually, I am not a fan of using plywood for French cleats.  The strips are fairly narrow and plywood in narrow strips can delaminate much easier than large pieces.  Also the stresses on the cleat can easily be in the direction that would cause a strip to delaminate. 

Other than that, I thought it was very clever.

Thanks for the video...it is a clever idea for those items that you may be moving.  I also wouldn't recommend plywood but for the little items & doo-dads that he's hanging I'm sure he'll be fine.

I'm not fond of using plywood for cleats either.  I prefer solid maple, properly dried, planed and jointed (if necessary).  It seems to me that maple has superior resistance to warping, cracking and bowing.  I've also used Douglas fir, for the same reasons. 
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 404
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2021, 02:56 PM »
I use poplar for carpentry trim work.  Pine is ok, but it seems to split a bit more often. 

But for spraying a nice finish, I much prefer maple.  It is slower to cut and slower to sand, but it is harder and seems to accept a smoother coat of paint.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8567
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2021, 03:03 PM »
I'm not fond of using plywood for cleats either.  I prefer solid maple, properly dried, planed and jointed (if necessary).  It seems to me that maple has superior resistance to warping, cracking and bowing.  I've also used Douglas fir, for the same reasons.

I'd love to use Doug Fir  [smile]  but around here it's more expensive than walnut.  [eek] 

And Sitka spruce is more expensive yet.

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1446
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2021, 04:18 PM »
@Cheese  If you can get by with resawing dimensional lumber look around for older buildings being torn down. Our little bungalow down here in southern Illinois was built in 1911-1912. Most of the wood in the house from studs to joists and 1x4 tongue and groove is old growth Douglas fir. the grain is simply amazing once you uncover it.

Ron

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 404
Re: Doing better at installing wall cabinets
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2021, 04:53 PM »
My house has 3" x 8" douglas fir joists in the basement.  From 1953 build.  The wood is so hard that it easily snaps off drywall screws.  And driving nails into it is really tough.  The code only calls for 2" x 8".  I guess they didn't want the floors to squeak.

It gave me a new respect for Douglas Fir. 

The deck was 47 years old when I replaced it.  All Douglas Fir.  I don't think my pressure-treated lumber will last that long.