Author Topic: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath  (Read 1343 times)

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Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 193
Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« on: November 16, 2019, 02:29 AM »
Our late 70s home has a lot of issues, but right at the top of the list is our guest/central bathroom. Truly hideous, with brass outlet/switch cover plates, knockdown drywall texture "accented" by strips of flowered wallpaper holding on for dear life, laminate floor, and a laminate covered vanity from the same era. The room itself is a bit awkward in that it's a long-ish room (12') but also a bit too narrow (5') for a soaking tub, something we'd like to add. Also, it features an in-swing door which comes dangerously close to the toilet bowl, a personal pet peeve of mine. Overall, it's just a poor use of space. I made a quick-n-dirty SketchUp video to show you what it looks like today:

Current state

My plan:

* Push out part of the wall and add a soaking tub where the big vanity exists today; make a smaller vanity and place it adjacent to the soaking tub

* Replace combo shower/tub combo with custom walk-in shower

* Move the toilet about 10-12 inches along the back wall, toward the center of the room (necessary for the 38" width of the walk-in shower)

* Replace the in-swing door with either a pocket door or out-swing door

Here's a quick-n-dirty SketchUp video showing my rough idea for the new bathroom:

Future state

I'm fairly confident in my demolition, framing, drywall, electrical and finish work, but plumbing is one area I haven't spent much time. However, I did sweat about 200 feet of copper for the air lines in my workshop a few months back -- so I've got that nailed down. I'm certainly not opposed to doing the plumbing work myself (especially since a local, licensed plumber quoted me $2K just for the rough plumbing work on this project), but I don't really know where to start. A few random questions I have:

* Can I tap into existing vent lines already in place for my sink or shower?

* What diameter drain needs to be used for the soaking tub, and can I merge that into the drain that's currently used for the shower/tub combo? (Will it be possible to drain the shower and soaking tub at the same time?)

* What is the required slope for drains?

* What other plumbing concerns/considerations should I be thinking about?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 02:19 PM by ryanjg117 »

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6132
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2019, 10:08 AM »
I could not view the links until I quoted your post.

Looks like you want to use a 6' soaking tub? The existing allcove tub would have been 5'. If you're going with a 6'er, a tub filler is pretty much a must have. This needs to be plumbed with its own supply lines back to the source. The volumethey take affects the other fixtures use.

What fixtures are you plasnning in the shower? Body sprays, rain head? Knowing this will answer the drain question. Normally a 2" drain in a shower is adequate, I've had to do 2 two's due to the volume of the heads in a few.

Generally, yes on the vents.

Soaking tub is usually 1-1/2" drain, shower 2".

1/4" per foot.

Fixtures----it all works backwards from there.

Tom




Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 193
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2019, 02:33 PM »
Looks like you want to use a 6' soaking tub?

Tom, sorry, fixed the links (I think).

I'm thinking about going with this tub (66x32") - so not quite six feet. Pushing out the wall in that area about a foot to get a comfortable amount of space around the tub as well. Am also thinking about under-mounting it with a granite or quartz surround for easy cleaning.

First I've heard of a "tub filler" - what's the advantage over a standard tub faucet? Flow? Or just style? I'd like to avoid a situation where I have to run a dedicated plumbing line back to the hot water heater, if that's what you're suggesting. Really want to be able to tap into the existing supply lines in the bathroom, even if that means the tub and shower can't be used/filled at the same time. Is that realistic? (Side note and note sure if it matters, but I know this home has a 1" water supply line coming into the home, and I have to pay extra each month for that luxury.)

For shower fixtures, I still need to do some research, but will probably go for a multifunction showerhead and handshower kit like this one. I believe it will either be 1.75 or 2.0 gpm.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 02:58 PM by ryanjg117 »

Offline George Oliver

  • Posts: 43
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2019, 05:17 PM »
I'd like to avoid a situation where I have to run a dedicated plumbing line back to the hot water heater, if that's what you're suggesting. Really want to be able to tap into the existing supply lines in the bathroom, even if that means the tub and shower can't be used/filled at the same time. Is that realistic?

You are going to do a good amount of drain work moving fixtures and adding new ones, probably working from below, etc., adding a supply line won't be much in the grand scheme of things.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 11:25 PM by George Oliver »

Offline Erich

  • Posts: 13
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2019, 06:44 PM »
The tub filler faucets have a higher flow rate than the standard tub and shower valve. In my previous experience to get the max possible fill rate they used a 3/4" supply as opposed to 1/2".  I just checked a random Kohler unit, they do have a 1/2" high flow rough in valve available for a 16 GPM unit.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6132
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2019, 06:49 PM »
The tub you are looking to buy has a capacity of 85.8 gallons according to the spec sheet. (make sure you support this well, full you're over 1650 pounds)

At 2 gallons a minute----40 minutes to fill........

The right tub filler will fill it in less than 7 minutes.

Make sure the water heater can handle this unit.

Isn't remodeling fun [eek].......

Tom

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3839
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2019, 07:44 PM »
The tub you are looking to buy has a capacity of 85.8 gallons according to the spec sheet. (make sure you support this well, full you're over 1650 pounds)


Tom, water weighs 8.34# per gallon.  That means water weight is 715.57# (8.34 x 85.8 = 715.57) plus the weight of the tub at 86# per the specs.  That comes up to 801.57#.  I'm curious about where you get 1650#? 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6132
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2019, 09:03 PM »
The tub you are looking to buy has a capacity of 85.8 gallons according to the spec sheet. (make sure you support this well, full you're over 1650 pounds)


Tom, water weighs 8.34# per gallon.  That means water weight is 715.57# (8.34 x 85.8 = 715.57) plus the weight of the tub at 86# per the specs.  That comes up to 801.57#.  I'm curious about where you get 1650#?

Poor mental math in a hurry.

Total load on the floor with this being a drop in unit (framing sheething, tile) with a person in it will come in about 1100 pounds when it is full.

Tom

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3839
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2019, 10:02 AM »
The tub you are looking to buy has a capacity of 85.8 gallons according to the spec sheet. (make sure you support this well, full you're over 1650 pounds)


Tom, water weighs 8.34# per gallon.  That means water weight is 715.57# (8.34 x 85.8 = 715.57) plus the weight of the tub at 86# per the specs.  That comes up to 801.57#.  I'm curious about where you get 1650#?

Poor mental math in a hurry.

Total load on the floor with this being a drop in unit (framing sheething, tile) with a person in it will come in about 1100 pounds when it is full.

Tom

That makes better sense.  Thanks for the clarity. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1394
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2019, 10:24 AM »
* Can I tap into existing vent lines already in place for my sink or shower?

* What diameter drain needs to be used for the soaking tub, and can I merge that into the drain that's currently used for the shower/tub combo? (Will it be possible to drain the shower and soaking tub at the same time?)

* What is the required slope for drains?

* What other plumbing concerns/considerations should I be thinking about?


Apparently answers to those questions are worth $2k



Good luck with your project. Be sure to get a permit and inspection else you might have
to tear it all out if you ever sell. At least that's what could (and has) happened in NJ.

"I don't need no stinking permit."

Well, yeah, you do, at least the State of Washington thinks so. You can certainly take your chances and do it without a permit.

https://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/health/environmental-health/piping/plumbing/homeowners-plumbing-permit.aspx

Seattle Plumbing Code
https://www.seattle.gov/DPD/cs/groups/pan/@pan/documents/web_informational/p3256811.pdf
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6634
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2019, 11:02 AM »
Along with the other suggestions, I'd highly...highly recommend installing an in-wall toilet. It's a huge space saver in a narrow bathroom. Kohler offers versions for both 2 x 4 and 2 x 6 walls. The in-wall toilet shortens the projection of the toilet into the room by 6-10"...that's huge.

It has a powder coated steel frame that bolts directly to the framing members and it will support 600#. it also places the toilet above the floor which means swabbing the floor is easy.

I'd also recommend installing a wall hung vanity which also makes bathroom floor cleaning chores easy. Spend the $$ now and you will be rewarded in the future...guaranteed. Nothing worse than being bent over on your hands and knees and swabbing the deck.

The Europeans have been installing these things for over 20 years because real estate is precious.  The same situation exists for tankless water heaters...real estate is precious.




It's curious that a 1" water inlet is an extra cost option  [eek]  I assumed that was the norm.

I ran 3/4" copper off of the 1" copper main to the shower. Once inside the shower cavity I then ran 3/4" Pex to the various valves. I prefer to use long turn copper elbows instead of the common ones so that volume isn't affected. I purchase the elbows here because they aren't carried by HD, Menards or Lowes.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Copper-Fittings-130000





A rather handy cheat sheet is available here. There will always be the local jurisdiction code anomalies but this spiral bound flip chart is handy for the majority of items. The one I have has every page laminated in plastic. I purchase it at HD.

https://www.tauntonstore.com/code-check-plumbing-mechanical-5th-edition.html?ref=1#collateral-tabs

Offline Koamolly

  • Posts: 109
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2019, 11:22 AM »
Install an electrical outlet by toilet in case you want a bidet/Washlet in the future if you’re not planning on one now.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6634
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2019, 11:50 AM »
Install an electrical outlet by toilet in case you want a bidet/Washlet in the future if you’re not planning on one now.

Great suggestion...that's the reason for the outlet in the lower part of the Kohler in-wall toilet frame. One side of the optional Kohler bidet/washlet connects to water while the other connects to electricity.  [smile]

Offline Koamolly

  • Posts: 109
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2019, 12:47 PM »
Install an electrical outlet by toilet in case you want a bidet/Washlet in the future if you’re not planning on one now.

Great suggestion...that's the reason for the outlet in the lower part of the Kohler in-wall toilet frame. One side of the optional Kohler bidet/washlet connects to water while the other connects to electricity.  [smile]

I did notice that in the photo.  ;)

OP might also consider power for LED/Heated mirror, heated towel bars, dedicated hair dryer drawer with power so hair dryer always plugged in, heated floors in certain areas.  Also take a look at Panasonic vent fans.


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6634
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2019, 01:04 PM »
OP might also consider power for LED/Heated mirror, heated towel bars, dedicated hair dryer drawer with power so hair dryer always plugged in, heated floors in certain areas.  Also take a look at Panasonic vent fans.

Here's a shot inside the vanity, an outlet for the hairdryer, an outlet to recharge the toothbrush and an outlet to recharge the shaver.  [smile]

The Panasonic fans are also my favorite...very quiet.

I do wish I had installed a heated towel bar.  [crying]


Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1475
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2019, 04:07 PM »
Along with the other suggestions, I'd highly...highly recommend installing an in-wall toilet. It's a huge space saver in a narrow bathroom.
It's not really a space-saver (as the wall needs to gets thicker than one without anything in it, at least when you want to also have some soundproofing so that flushing at night won't travel through the wall into all adjacent rooms and wake everyone there).

But I completely agree with the rest of the arguments (cleaning, optics, ...).

I also second the idea of a combined toilet/bidet, as time passes your hemorrhoids will get more problematic (statistically) so you'll likely have a point in time from which you'll prefer a shower for after-the-fact cleaning instead of mechanical scraping around a then quite sensible portion of your body using a bunch of paper.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 04:12 PM by Gregor »

Offline Sbradley0911

  • Posts: 12
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2019, 04:30 PM »
I'd also look into doing a wedi system for the walk in shower/ tub if I were you.  It's similar to the schluter system but better in my opinion and less steps and possibly of a failure.  They make nice prepitched shower pans that have curbs or curbless and also panels to extend the pan if your application doesn't fit in between the sizes they have. 

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6132
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2019, 06:51 PM »
@ryanjg117 define walk in shower.

A lot of work can go into one. Explain what you're looking to have.

Tom

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 193
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2019, 07:23 PM »
Will definitely look into permitting, thanks for those links.

Good ideas on fixtures, I will not forget the power outlet near the toilet for the bidet! With kids in potty training, I can only imagine the luxury of being able to say "just press that button."

Not sure if the in wall toilet will work for my project. The wall with the toilet is actually a shared wall with the master bath, and I suspect the toilets are mounted in the exact same position in both bathrooms, probably to simplify plumbing when built.

For the shower, I was researching the Kerdi system as they have a 38" prefab shower base and I've watched a few hundred YouTube videos on installing it. But I'll look into the alternative mentioned here. Was thinking custom tile, with a full glass wall/door.

For flooring, tile? I'd like to minimize maintenance (grout sealing). Any good alternatives for bathrooms?

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 136
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2019, 08:16 PM »
Cheese , nice looking work.

Why did you choose PEX and then go to the time, troubled and expense using all those copper 90's insead of running the pipe point to point ?

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6132
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2019, 09:01 PM »
Will definitely look into permitting, thanks for those links.

Good ideas on fixtures, I will not forget the power outlet near the toilet for the bidet! With kids in potty training, I can only imagine the luxury of being able to say "just press that button."

Not sure if the in wall toilet will work for my project. The wall with the toilet is actually a shared wall with the master bath, and I suspect the toilets are mounted in the exact same position in both bathrooms, probably to simplify plumbing when built.

For the shower, I was researching the Kerdi system as they have a 38" prefab shower base and I've watched a few hundred YouTube videos on installing it. But I'll look into the alternative mentioned here. Was thinking custom tile, with a full glass wall/door.

For flooring, tile? I'd like to minimize maintenance (grout sealing). Any good alternatives for bathrooms?

The Kerdi works well. The Wedi would be thier Fungo.

Epoxy grout. Avoid any type of natrual stone on the floor.

These are barrier free showers. Neither are ADA compliant.

Tom

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 193
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2019, 03:25 AM »
These are barrier free showers. Neither are ADA compliant.

Stunning, but also in a bathroom with 15 foot lofted ceilings by the look of it. I'm working with much less here, ha. Good to take inspiration from. I'll definitely look into the low-threshold or zero threshold shower options. That floor drain is pretty sweet.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6634
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2019, 10:38 AM »
Cheese , nice looking work.

Why did you choose PEX and then go to the time, troubled and expense using all those copper 90's insead of running the pipe point to point ?

Thanks...the space between the studs is quite narrow and the 3/4" Pex will not easily bend without kinking. I also really wanted to eliminate any side loading of the hot water fittings that may cause problems or possible leaks in the future. That's the reason for the Pex/copper combination.


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6634
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2019, 11:46 AM »
I'm working with much less here, ha. Good to take inspiration from. I'll definitely look into the low-threshold or zero threshold shower options. That floor drain is pretty sweet.

The barrier free shower is also nice if you have dogs that need to be bathed on occasion.

2nd vote for epoxy or urethane grout. They're both considerably more expensive than standard grout but they have ZERO maintenance issues.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6132
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Bathroom remodel - adding plumbing for soaking bath
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2019, 10:57 PM »
These are barrier free showers. Neither are ADA compliant.

Stunning, but also in a bathroom with 15 foot lofted ceilings by the look of it. I'm working with much less here, ha. Good to take inspiration from. I'll definitely look into the low-threshold or zero threshold shower options. That floor drain is pretty sweet.

@ryanjg117,

If you look carefully at the shoer with the marble wall,  the drain is at the faucet wall, it is a tile over.

Tom