Author Topic: Baseboard Help  (Read 9913 times)

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Offline Jay Knoll

  • Posts: 133
Baseboard Help
« on: December 26, 2011, 01:32 PM »
Hi everyone

A friend lives in a fortress of a condo, all the walls are concrete block, with plaster (not drywall) over the block.  She had the place remodelled before she moved in about 2 years ago. New baseboard all around, apparently it was glued onto the walls.  Now it is coming off.  She doesn't want to call the contractor back there was some bad blood on other aspects of the job (which I bailed her out on but that is another story).  I'm not going down the bailout road again, but want to know if you have any suggestions on repairs.  Is there a nail that goes into concrete that you could put in an air nailer?  I'd like to give her some information so she can negotiate with the next contractor.
Thanks

Jay

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Offline Erik63

  • Posts: 49
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2011, 01:45 PM »
Is the glue just loosing bond to the concrete? is there excess moisture or is the plaster falling off the block?

They do have air nailers that would put nails into the concrete. I believe they have a hardened driving pin.

I think you would be better off removing the base. Glue with PL premium and use some of these screws to fasten the piece off.

http://www.grkfasteners.com/en/CLB_0_XL_information.htm

CT 33, CT MIDI, TS 55, TRION, OF1400, DOMINO, RO 150, RO 125, DTS 400, T15+3

Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1854
  • NORFOLK,VA
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2011, 01:54 PM »
tap-con is your best choice.The nailer that erik is suggesting is not for concrete but cmu(cement block)Hilti used to make one.it uses a T nail.For concrete you would need a powder actuated nail gun like the hilti,but i think it is a little too powerful to nail baseboard.
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline Knottys

  • Posts: 43
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2011, 01:59 PM »
What i would prefer to do is double up, let me explain... lets assume your using 6" baseboard usually the bottom half  has a flat profile I would tapcon that into the concrete wall and then use 2nd piece of baseboard approx 3"  and finish nail it to cover the flat profile of the first trim piece (also covering the tapcon screws)
This will achieve 2 things a strong bond to the wall and a thicker(richer) look.
it will cost a bit more but the 3" wide baseboard is usually inexpensive, this works best with poplar base or any wood baseboard but wether you use wood or mdf  i recommend you use some pl premium adhesive also.

K.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 02:02 PM by Knottys »

Offline Steve R

  • Posts: 919
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2011, 02:16 PM »
A lot of good info here. 

I would like to know what climate is the bunker in? Also is it an inside wall when a unit next or are we talking outside walls. Your descriptions make me wonder about insulation.

Tap-con are great but for finish work I wonder....


PL should work...but could pop if temps issues exist.

Until more is known I think your are looking at short term fix.  Without more info... it kind of points to a bad design/build originally....   

Cheers,
Steve
"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4078
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2011, 02:36 PM »
I would not want to fill tapcon heads.

Contact cement.

Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1854
  • NORFOLK,VA
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2011, 02:52 PM »
I would not want to fill tapcon heads.

Contact cement.
Yes they are kind of big,maybe use a few tap-cons WITH glue?
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline Deansocial

  • Posts: 2114
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2011, 03:03 PM »
srews plastic plugs and wooden plugs to fill the holes. Measure out the centers and line them up so they all look neat and tidy

Offline Steve R

  • Posts: 919
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2011, 03:17 PM »
Hi everyone

A friend lives in a fortress of a condo, all the walls are concrete block, with plaster (not drywall) over the block.  She had the place remodelled before she moved in about 2 years ago. New baseboard all around, apparently it was glued onto the walls.  Now it is coming off.  She doesn't want to call the contractor back there was some bad blood on other aspects of the job (which I bailed her out on but that is another story).  I'm not going down the bailout road again, but want to know if you have any suggestions on repairs.  Is there a nail that goes into concrete that you could put in an air nailer?  I'd like to give her some information so she can negotiate with the next contractor.
Thanks

Jay

Jay.... it might help if you update your location to a city...the USA is a bit large and your question has a weather aspect. It would help us respond with good recommendations to know where you are.

Cheers,
Steve
"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2011, 03:22 PM »
tap-con is your best choice.The nailer that erik is suggesting is not for concrete but cmu(cement block)Hilti used to make one.it uses a T nail.For concrete you would need a powder actuated nail gun like the hilti,but i think it is a little too powerful to nail baseboard.

Jay, just to clarify for  better info.   You said the walls are concrete block is this the same as cement block?

One thing I wonder about using a powerful nail gun is , might crack the plaster on the surface of the block wall? I don't know, just a thought.

Seth

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4078
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2011, 03:22 PM »
I would not want to fill tapcon heads.

Contact cement.
Yes they are kind of big,maybe use a few tap-cons WITH glue?

It would be even better if every 24" you drilled a 1" hole in the concrete and glued in a plug.

Mark your base board to line up with the plugs and use some glue and GRK trim screws to go through the base board and hit the plugs in the wall.

That should stay forever.  All the double bricker's around here are done like that.

Offline neth27

  • Posts: 574
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2011, 03:36 PM »
You come out with some complicated ways to fit some skirting board  [scared] Just do as Deansocial says, screws and plugs.....


John...

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3312
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2011, 03:50 PM »
you should be able to nail it with a compressor. could you use a steel nail.
if its paint grade then any amount of plugs shouldnt be a problem buy if its not paint grade then just be tidy about where you put the plugs
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2011, 03:51 PM »
I was waiting to see the answers from the overseas members.  They seem to run across situations like this more frequently.

Thanks Guys!

Peter

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6628
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2011, 06:34 PM »
You come out with some complicated ways to fit some skirting board  [scared] Just do as Deansocial says, screws and plugs.....


John...



srews plastic plugs and wooden plugs to fill the holes. Measure out the centers and line them up so they all look neat and tidy


What Dean and Neth said just use plastic plugs and screws      I would space them out evenly and top and bottom fixings line up  and plug(pellets) them if its stained and if its painted you can just use filler saves a lot of time but still space them and line them up just cus it looks a better job and sometimes you can still see them slightly depending on how they are sanded and filled etc.


JMB  

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Offline Jay Knoll

  • Posts: 133
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2011, 06:39 PM »
We live in Florida, so there is lots of humidity. It is probably cement block, I don't think it is solid concrete (sorry)  I don't know how he held the base in place while the adhesive set but I suspect there weren't any mechanical fasteners involved.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6628
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2011, 06:50 PM »
We live in Florida, so there is lots of humidity. It is probably cement block, I don't think it is solid concrete (sorry)  I don't know how he held the base in place while the adhesive set but I suspect there weren't any mechanical fasteners involved.


A decent adhesive like fix all, sticks like  we use in the UK would be fine to hold baseboard even with humidity or even if the room was under water cus the stuff will stick underwater.   The contractor clearly didnt use the correct adhesive.

The easiest way to fix this is what has been mentioned by UK members.   I personally don't like plugging fixing though but in your situation its your best option!     UNLESS your willing to remove all the skirting and re-stick it.    

I would ask the client if they didnt like the plug it method aswell and how far they would want me to go.  

If its  stained and they want it with no plug fixing on show I would....

remove all the skirting my self.  Clean the skirting of if der is any dirt and glue still on it

Then clean wall using a scraper removing any dirt and adhesive left on it!    

IF the wall has been painted below the skirting line (base board)   I would sand this off or put scratch marks for the adhesive Im going to use to stick the skirting back on with to bond!  Cus if it has been painted before the skirting was fixed that could be another reason why the skirting didnt stay fixed in the first place cus the glue is only as strong as the paint.

Then with my second fix gun I would try with a off cut piece to see it it graps the plaster using 32mm nails which it most likely will!   This is only just incase the wall has a slight bowed and you need to keep the skirting back till the adhesive goes off.  Once its gone of and if any small nails are sticking out cus of the hard plaster/cement wall you can simply snap them off and you will hardly see them.

Thats alot of work!  I would go with the plastic plugs/screws and plug it method lol

JMB

« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 06:53 PM by jmbfestool »
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Offline mastercabman

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Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2011, 07:02 PM »
We live in Florida, so there is lots of humidity. It is probably cement block, I don't think it is solid concrete (sorry)  I don't know how he held the base in place while the adhesive set but I suspect there weren't any mechanical fasteners involved.
If it's block,they do make nails to go in cement block.You could also use small cut nails.Of course use some kind of glue like liquid nail.
Is it painted? or stained?
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4078
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2011, 07:11 PM »
I would not want to fill tapcon heads.

Contact cement.
Yes they are kind of big,maybe use a few tap-cons WITH glue?

It would be even better if every 24" you drilled a 1" hole in the concrete and glued in a plug.

Mark your base board to line up with the plugs and use some glue and GRK trim screws to go through the base board and hit the plugs in the wall.

That should stay forever.  All the double bricker's around here are done like that.


????? Man that seems alot of hassle


JMB

Hassle?

How long will it take to drill some holes with a decent rotary hammer drill?

Only take a second to reference the plug locations, glue and then screw the base board up.

Tapcons would take just as long and regular tapcons suck.

If it takes a half day longer to prep, at least I wouldn't have to come back and fix trim that is falling off.


Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6628
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2011, 07:12 PM »
I would not want to fill tapcon heads.

Contact cement.
Yes they are kind of big,maybe use a few tap-cons WITH glue?

It would be even better if every 24" you drilled a 1" hole in the concrete and glued in a plug.

Mark your base board to line up with the plugs and use some glue and GRK trim screws to go through the base board and hit the plugs in the wall.

That should stay forever.  All the double bricker's around here are done like that.


????? Man that seems alot of hassle.    Why bother fixing in wooden plugs!    Its like the old days here in the UK when brick layers use to stick wooden begs in the wall to fix to.    Your removing the skirting to fix wooden plugs with glue to put the skirting back on marking where the plugs are to fix to.    When you can simply just use plastic plugs with SDS and screw and fix straight to the wall with out the need to remove the skirting at all.

JMB


Edited reposted
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 07:14 PM by jmbfestool »
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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6628
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2011, 07:19 PM »
I would not want to fill tapcon heads.

Contact cement.
Yes they are kind of big,maybe use a few tap-cons WITH glue?

It would be even better if every 24" you drilled a 1" hole in the concrete and glued in a plug.

Mark your base board to line up with the plugs and use some glue and GRK trim screws to go through the base board and hit the plugs in the wall.

That should stay forever.  All the double bricker's around here are done like that.


????? Man that seems alot of hassle


JMB

Hassle?

How long will it take to drill some holes with a decent rotary hammer drill?

Only take a second to reference the plug locations, glue and then screw the base board up.

Tapcons would take just as long and regular tapcons suck.

If it takes a half day longer to prep, at least I wouldn't have to come back and fix trim that is falling off.



I kinda already answered!  I edited my post but didnt press post but then noticed u was already reading the topic so decided to repost it but then u already posted so kinda backwards now  but any way!


The hassle is removing the skirting for no reason!  Your removing the skirting just to fix wooden plugs for you to fix the skirting to when you can simply just use good decent plastic plugs SDS (hammer drill) through the skirting and so leaving the skirting in place less mess and hassle.  I assure you this method the skirting will never fall off.

I get the feeling only UK members use plastic plugs lol

JMB

« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 07:25 PM by jmbfestool »
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Offline WarnerConstCo.

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    • Warner Mill Works
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2011, 07:39 PM »
I just figured if it was falling off here and there, take it all off and fix it.

done and over with. 

if you wanted to put a screw in it here and there, who cares how big the hole is.

Will is start coming off in other places then?

I am looking at it from a different view.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6628
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2011, 07:49 PM »

What Dean and Neth said just use plastic plugs and screws      I would space them out evenly and top and bottom fixings line up  and plug(pellets) them if its stained and if its painted you can just use filler saves a lot of time but still space them and line them up just cus it looks a better job and sometimes you can still see them slightly depending on how they are sanded and filled etc.


I just figured if it was falling off here and there, take it all off and fix it

Even though its falling off here and there it still easier to just leave it where it is push it back against the wall and fix through it.


if you wanted to put a screw in it here and there, who cares how big the hole is.
Im confused a little.   You never just stick a scew here and there is that what your suggesting I was saying?  Read quote above to what I said above in my early posts in this topic. Never said bang a screw any where always keep it looking tidy.

The size of the hole is very important the smaller the better and also it needs to be filled with a wooden pellet to hide the fixing after you fixed the skirting back so you need the hole to be the correct size to your pellets.

 

Will is start coming off in other places then?
What??   I never suggested to just fix it where its coming away!  Like I said before you spread your fixing out evenly across your skirting keeping the top and bottom inline so it looks tidy.   You fix the entire skirting like you would if you was just fitting the skirting from new.   Depending on how bad the walls are but I would normally do them at no more than 600mm centres max  300/400mm is preferred!  


JMB

« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 07:54 PM by jmbfestool »
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Offline tbear

  • Posts: 18
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2011, 08:35 PM »
VELCRO.
Then when you get tired of the base board style just change it out.  ;D ;D ;D

Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1854
  • NORFOLK,VA
Re: Baseboard Help
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2011, 09:42 PM »
VELCRO.
Then when you get tired of the base board style just change it out.  ;D ;D ;D


Hey now   that's not a bad idea! [smile]
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!