Author Topic: six-point socket's tidbits of Home Improvement, small projects and other stuff.  (Read 180604 times)

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Online Bob D.

  • Posts: 2002
If I ever have to repipe my house I would use PEX and install the manifolds as shown above. It is nice to have individual control over each fixture. And the single fixture runs can be smaller diameter so less volume and less time to get hot water to the fixtures furthest away from the water heater. PEX has been around over 20 years, and has a good track record.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viega

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Offline six-point socket II

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Viega is well known around here, I buy all my red brass/red bronze screw connectors/fitting from them. I had no idea they made these manifolds, nor have I ever seen them being used/installed here in residential installations. Thanks Bob, very interesting!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Vtshopdog

  • Posts: 78
https://www.siouxchief.com/docs/default-source/print/print-brochures/supply/branchmaster---manifolds---brochure.pdf?sfvrsn=15a93637_6

Sioux Chief brand manifolds   
I went all brass and copper for fittings in my system.   The little plastic mounting brackets were kinda spendy for what they are (maybe $25 each? I can’t remember) but well worth cost for clean mount.

Offline six-point socket II

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Thank you very much @Vtshopdog ! Very, very interesting & saved for future reference!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline six-point socket II

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Hi!

Progress. Even though, not through DIY. My plumber sent his journeyman, a near journeyman/apprentice and an intern today - to tackle the piping.

Every time I have shown people a picture of this, I get the same question: why did someone mix galvanized (zinc) steel pipe/fittings and copper/red brass. The answer has always been that a small part of the whole installation still utilizes galvanized (zinc) steel pipe - and my last plumber always assured me this was the right way to do it.

Red arrows point towards the parts in question/ questionable parts.



Today was the day, the first part, of the last bit of galvanized (zinc) steel pipe was exchanged for Fraenkische Alpex F50 Profi composite pipes. And a new "Domestic Water Station with backwashing filter" (Cillit Galileo 100mm) was installed. Perfect time to change the couple of galvanized (zinc) fittings in this part of the installation as well, for red brass/copper.

What I had to expect from the old galvanized (zinc) steel pipes that are original to this house from the 60ties was pretty much clear. But what I had to see and find in the much, much younger part of the installation behind the water meter, was unbelievable.

I will not embed this pictures, I leave them as links to click. Who clicks, clicks. ... And remember, what has been seen, can't be unseen.  [eek] [scared] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

Look inside the part where the first red arrow points.

https://up.picr.de/39386641xd.jpeg

Using my inspection camera to look into the rest of this piping, after it was taken out:

https://up.picr.de/39386642ci.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/39386643xy.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/39386644pz.jpeg

I have no words to describe how I feel about this, and I'd like to use words like "Mickey Mouse job"; botched job; shoddy work. And to be very clear, this was not a DIY attempt. This work was done by a German master-plumber, personally. Not a journeyman, not an apprentice, not an intern. It was a one guy company, the master, personally. And the worst part, I expressly asked him about what to expect from mixing lower grade materials with higher grade materials, as I knew that was not the best solution/idea. He insisted, that was the right way to do it. (Maybe this also helps understand why I DIY so much these days - although not in this case ...)

The new connection from water meter to the piping was quickly installed.





Tool:



Die/crimp insert:



The composite pipe in a suitable diameter.:



Comparison: New diameter (large) vs. old diameter (small). Another dire mistake the first plumber made. Chose a way to small diameter. It's partly corrected now, and will be fully corrected once I start in the other basement room, so we can access the last bit of the old & very old (galvanized (zinc) steel pipe) installation. You can also see that the diameter is reduced even more inside those crimp fittings. And I'm not even talking about the connector from large to small. ...














And for good measure, some more links. View inside that last bit of galvanized (zinc) steel pipe - that will be removed/replaced in future. A real limestone cave formed by massive amounts of chalk residue & rust.

https://up.picr.de/39386730pc.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/39386731ej.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/39386732cm.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/39386733wc.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/39386734vf.jpeg


Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 11:40 AM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline hdv

  • Posts: 299
I hope that previous plumber won't get near you or your car in the coming days.  [scared] And if he does, I hope you have some good sturdy bull bars on your car.  [cool]  You surely don't strike me as an aggressive man, but boy, if I were in your shoes, I surely would be tempted...   [wink] Well, you could try to look at it this way: at least the feeling of getting new pipes in is extra rewarding now.  [huh]

Offline Vtshopdog

  • Posts: 78
There is a red wire in first photo - is that some sort of electrical ground attached to the piping?  That area appears to have much more corrosion.

All things equal, a small grounding current into the galvanized piping would tend to increase rate of corrosion.  That combined with the dissimilar metals would create the local issue visible in photo.

In defense of your plumber, the galvanized pipes likely have used up all their zinc leading to the rust deposits in the rest of system. The brass fittings might have accelerated this a very small amount, but likely local water chemistry and time are primary culprits.

Offline six-point socket II

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I hope that previous plumber won't get near you or your car in the coming days.  [scared] And if he does, I hope you have some good sturdy bull bars on your car.  [cool]  You surely don't strike me as an aggressive man, but boy, if I were in your shoes, I surely would be tempted...   [wink] Well, you could try to look at it this way: at least the feeling of getting new pipes in is extra rewarding now.  [huh]

Some years ago I would have confronted him about it, and it would have ended in some type of gentleman agreement. But having seen him loosing his temper over much more trivial stuff in more recent times - I'll take a pass on that. Just not worth it. So yeah, the latter it is. Seeing that stuff made having the new pipes installed extra rewarding! Great way to put it!  [big grin]

There is a red wire in first photo - is that some sort of electrical ground attached to the piping?  That area appears to have much more corrosion.

All things equal, a small grounding current into the galvanized piping would tend to increase rate of corrosion.  That combined with the dissimilar metals would create the local issue visible in photo.

In defense of your plumber, the galvanized pipes likely have used up all their zinc leading to the rust deposits in the rest of system. The brass fittings might have accelerated this a very small amount, but likely local water chemistry and time are primary culprits.

You caught that correctly. The red wire is a connection from actual grounding (the black, stranded wire running next to that larger diameter black, insulated, cable. It has always been there. Never thought about it. But now that you say it. Sure, if it did induce current, that would explain part of the damage. But I'm still flabbergasted that it happened over such a short period. While the other pipes are +60 years old ...

But it's definitely a great explanation. Never questioned it. I just cleaned it now, before it was painted white, that's probably why it caught your attention, the red really sticks out now.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 911
@Vtshopdog is most likely right in you having current through the grounding wire.
The corrosion will accelerate close to higher grade material.
I would have an electrician check. But, it could also come through the piping (Now, we cannot see your whole system, but low current can travel through whatever conductive material)

It could also be one of your neighbours who has a ground fault:
A few years ago I was on my aluminium ladder mounting an antenna splitter for my TV and radio aerials when I felt tickling handling the coax wires, and the splitter box which also was in metal. This also happened, and even stronger the tickling was when holding one hand on the ladder and the other on the splitter. Reassuring again that my cabling and antennas where a closed circuit I called the local power company after advise from my cousin’s who’s an electrician.
And he was right, some houses apart there was one who had a major ground fault. Leading current through the soil and to the feet of my ladder, then through me and finally my antenna.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline six-point socket II

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I will do some testing/ take some measurements. :)

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 692
Hi Oliver,

What a relief to see these pipes go!
I hope you are able to eliminate all of the faults. What a nasty look into the abyss...

Sometimes I can‘t shake the feeling that you just have these things installed, to keep us entertained like you do.
As you pointed out, it is not worth it to grieve yourself over this. Seeing the change as the positive it brings is the way to go.

Keep at keeping us entertained. ;)

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8327
That's unfortunate Oliver... [sad] [sad]...it's so basic that any apprentice would know better. Each of the fittings, an adapter, a nipple & a coupling are all standard items, nothing special about any of those fittings.  I'd chalk it up to laziness on his part.

I've needed to accommodate galvanized and copper in the same run, for a short period of time, and I had to install pvc fittings between the items which eliminated the issues you've highlighted.

That's another reason I tend to do everything myself...if something gets screwed up I only have myself to blame.  [big grin]

Offline six-point socket II

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Hi Oliver,

What a relief to see these pipes go!
I hope you are able to eliminate all of the faults. What a nasty look into the abyss...

Sometimes I can‘t shake the feeling that you just have these things installed, to keep us entertained like you do.
As you pointed out, it is not worth it to grieve yourself over this. Seeing the change as the positive it brings is the way to go.

Keep at keeping us entertained. ;)

Hi!

Thanks! Yes, absolutely. I wish it was all done just for the purpose of show & tell. ;) But unfortunately the trouble is real. ;)

I'll do my best!

That's unfortunate Oliver... [sad] [sad]...it's so basic that any apprentice would know better. Each of the fittings, an adapter, a nipple & a coupling are all standard items, nothing special about any of those fittings.  I'd chalk it up to laziness on his part.

I've needed to accommodate galvanized and copper in the same run, for a short period of time, and I had to install pvc fittings between the items which eliminated the issues you've highlighted.

That's another reason I tend to do everything myself...if something gets screwed up I only have myself to blame.  [big grin]

So true. Thanks Cheese!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline six-point socket II

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Hi!

Todays work. Sorting the cable run.





Then I painted the rest of the visible wall.

As you can see, to install the Domestic Water Station with backwashing filter we had to make a cut out in the former substructure. I fixed that.





Not sure if anyone has noticed, but due to the install of that Domestic Water Station with backwashing filter, which protrudes the old substructure, I had to fix that too, you will see it in the last pictures.

After that I wanted to install the radiator, for that I had to install two parts of the new covers first.

This is where the GRK FIN/TRIM (Pheinox, #8 1 1/2") truly excel. Pre drill and really slightly countersunk, which is were Festool Accessories excel ;).







Then it was about coffee time and I got surprised with some freshly and home baked Pasteis de Nata. That's a traditional Portuguese dessert.



Then I installed the radiator. This it what it looked like when I called it a day.





One minor faux pas comes to light. One of the grouts doesn't line up properly. That is because that entire wall is not square, I had to cut every single tile, and that's what I finally ended up with. It is like it is.

Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 05:08 AM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 692
Oliver, it is really coming along nicely!
Can’t wait to see the covers coming on. :)

Offline six-point socket II

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  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
The Day of the Jackal? (The 1973 original, based on Forsyth's book, not the later Willis remake, please. ;) ) - But no, the day of the CXS!






















Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 04:55 PM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline six-point socket II

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Hi!

So yesterday evening I was pretty tired, that's why I only uploaded the few CXS pictures.

I needed to make a slight modification to the plumbers work, one of the pipe clamps protruded too far into the future compartment.



So I cut it out and though about how to install it another way. I honestly don't even know if it's actually really needed for such a sturdy and rather short piece of pipe, but what gives. A piece of wood was easily found to serve as end support/ counter bearing, and the rest was easily done.








The CXS pictures where the result of needing another scrap piece of plywood to fix the compartments inner cover to.



At the end of the day, this is what it looked like.



Today was pretty much the same as yesterday. Cutting sheets to boards, mark necessary modifications/alignments , more cutting with the TSC - or on the fly with the Carvex - try again ... and screw it down.





Some modification/alignment to the substructure by using a bevel edged chisel.





And after a tiny bit of electrical work, this is what it looked like tonight.






Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline six-point socket II

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Hi!

Today it was time to put edge banding on the doors - prior to applying a coat of Osmo hardwax-oil. The edge banding is real wood/timber (birch) with a melting adhesive on the back. Ironing it to the edges is no problem obviously.

I took of the majority of the excess edge banding with the Tajima Razar blades. And then used my LN #102 plane to bring it down right to the edge.

First very carefully and hesistant.



Then a little more bold. ;)



That works great, even though the real wood/timber edge banding behaves entirely different than ABS/Melamine edge banding.

In the end I was able to produce pretty nice edges with cutter & plane - but I also used a file and sandpaper.







I couldn't get it finished today. The reason for that: The first roll (5m) of edge banding was incredibly easy and "smooth" to work with, and I easily got 2 edges out of one 42mm wide strip of edge banding. Starting on the next roll (5m), was pretty much the total opposite. It seems the fiber course is extremely different on that roll, it doesn't cut as nicely and rather coarse. After having to remove one edge after putting it on and ruining it, and the 2nd attempt taking a similar path, I put everything aside. I cleaned up, sorted some scraps and stashed them away. Tomorrow is a fresh new day, to start edge banding again.

But I did put up a "party tent" and some tables to put the finished doors on, as I hope I can coat them some time tomorrow.



Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 04:46 AM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline six-point socket II

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Hi!

Let's continue. I hope I'm not boring you guys too much. :)

Another technique I tried, using a chisel to take off excess edge banding.



"Joy and sorrow" are not far apart. And I have to admit that I'm actually very happy that I had to encounter the "stubborn" roll of edge banding only after I had good results and a rather easy time with the first roll. Otherwise I might even have given up on the real wood/timber edge banding.




 
Prior to sanding.





All edge banding done.



Sanding. (Festool Granat K180 (Paper) on linear/ straight line sander.)



Applying the first coat of oil. (Osmo Hardwax-Oil 3071 Honey)



To be continued. ;)

In the end, a couple of notes on the Festool Bit-Set DB CE 50/12-Set 1 ( 205089 )

That I kindly received around this time last year, and which I used regularly since then. With the actual project, the sizes TX 10 and TX 20 pretty extensively.



I really like the quality, no comparison to the 25mm bits - and up on par with the long Centrotec Bits. Durable, precise fit and in my eyes ideal for the CXS. In the beginning I was actually pretty surprised by the rather short length of these bits when used with/in the Centrotec Chuck. You'd expect 50mm type bits to be longer. After a year of use, I find them to be highly practical and complimenting when used with the CXS. They also work reasonably well when used with the angle attachment.

After a year of use I feel capable of recommending these bits/ the bit set. As DIY'er who's projects circle around and concentrate on a 1966/1967 built home, I do miss at least one bit for slotted screws, maybe even two. A small size with rather thin edge, and a classic (of the metric world) like 5,5x1,0 or the like.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline jobsworth

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  • Festool Baby.....
Oliver, You make me tired just looking at photos of your work  [big grin]

Offline six-point socket II

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Oh, come on @jobsworth , I saw your laundry room cabinets - that are much nicer than that sheet of laminated, oriented strand board I used to make that "shelve" above our washing machine and dryer! :)


Today was an easy day. Sanded down the cover of the build-in with Festool Granat 180 grit - and oiled it with Festool's One-Step oil.





Now I'm on a forced break until Tuesday, my math was wrong and I didn't order enough of the Osmo hardwax-oil, both colored as well as the satin clear coat.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 6671
  • Festool Baby.....
Thank you Oliver,

All the work you do made me feel guilty.

I had to do something [big grin]

Offline six-point socket II

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  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
Hi!

So my parcel with the much needed Osmo oil finally arrived after going sightseeing in our beautiful county/state. DHL decided it was well worth it to let it take some extra trips before delivering it.  [big grin]

So I could finally finish (color) the other sides of the doors today, while listening to Apple Music's "Jazz" curated station. Coltrane, Basie, Armstrong, Davis ...

Preparing the paintbrush. This was a trick an acquaintance on another (German) woodworking community mentioned, and it works well. Simply draw the paintbrush over sandpaper, and that will catch (most of) the loose hairs. Sadly I still had to "fish" for about a handful of hairs from my workpieces after the treatment.





Even though I used painter's pyramids and was pretty careful while oiling, on some boards oil had accumulated and dried on the underside - so I needed to remove that first. Some hand sanding was in order.





Then I started to apply the oil.



That was finished rather quick. Tomorrow I'll finish the doors on both sides with a transparent oil that will leave a satin finish.



Then it was time - while enjoying a Whisky (Glenmorangie, The Lasanta, 12 Jahre) - and being accompanied by the wonderful voice of Halie Loren (Stages, 2012) - to watch the oil dry. And enjoy the built quality and heft of my wonderful Lie-Nieseln bronze plane. (#102). Such an amazing tool and immediately sent me dreaming about how and where to use it next ...  [big grin]



Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 12:54 PM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline jobsworth

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  • Festool Baby.....
Looks like youre living the dream buddy

Offline six-point socket II

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Looks like youre living the dream buddy

It sure feels like it at the moment!

Thanks!







Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 04:28 PM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline six-point socket II

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  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
Today I oiled bot sides of the doors for a second time. (Osmo Hardwax-Oil 3032 clear, satin finish.)



Tomorrow I bring them back into the basement, to get used to the different temperature and humidity. Then I will install them and the necessary hardware.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline six-point socket II

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  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
Hi!

Finally, the first part of installing the doors and other final touches. :)

First I practiced all of my steps once on some scraps. That worked.



Then I used a scrap piece of 15mm ply to exactly determine the needed depth.



After that it was time to repeat it on an actual door that I'm going to use.





After that, everything sped up and I had the first door installed in no time.





The Festool CE drill/jacobs chuck adaptor is really neat and it worked amazing. Being able to remove the Zobo bit together with the CE chuck speed up my process of "pre-drilling", removing the pilot pin, drill to exact required depth! It made the whole process possible, it wouldn't have worked out that comfortable in any other way. Except for maybe when you would have a positive stop/guide. What has been a little pesky is getting the wood/timber from that little pilot hole when there is no tip or drill bit installed. You either have to clean it manually, or insert a tip and push the wood/timber out.









I called it a day after having installed 5 doors and some "in between" stuff. Will do the missing two tomorrow, but also the fine tuning/ true final touches.



Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline six-point socket II

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  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
Today it should have been all about the finishing/ final touches.

So I started by installing the last door. drilled two holes for the concealed hinges, and thats when it happened. I don't know why, I didn't mess with the settings/ change them as I knew I had to drill a couple more holes today. And the first hole was no problem/ perfect as those I drilled yesterday - this is what the second looked like:





I decided to install the door, at least to see how it would fit. And of course, of all doors, it was the one that fit best right away. Of course not counting my mishap. Since you can't spot the damage if you're not pressing against it from behind, and since it's on the far end, all under the staircase I decided to use the door as is.

There still was another problem:



I decided to cut a new door for the right side, since I had to cut a tiny "bucket" door for beneath it, anyway.

I installed the handles by using a template, the 4mm multiplex are indeed gold for something like this.



And then it was all said an done - basically:





I will remove the right door on the left, and the tiny "bucket" door one of these days, remove the hinges and coat them. This I can do in the basement.

So far so good - project finished.

Thank you for hanging out with me & commenting, here in my thread!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline CeeJay

  • Posts: 288
That’s very annoying when the hinge cutter breaks through like that Oliver. I’ve had it happen too.

I think it’s due to internal defects in the ply, where a piece comes loose and is then churning around under the bit. I don’t tend to see it in MDF.

Usually I fill the base of the hole with a wood-dust/glue mix, install the hinge, then clamp the damaged face with a flat spacer board. That generally is enough for all but the expert eye to pick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline six-point socket II

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  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer - 22/02/21 inactive.
Thank you CeeJay, that is great advice, I will do that - as it is no problem to remove the door. (The hinges have a spring loaded quick connect/disconnect feature, and all adjustments remain set.)

Thank you!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International