Author Topic: six-point socket's tidbits of Home Improvement, small projects and other stuff.  (Read 163497 times)

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Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1453
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer
When I searched for some videos regarding the use and setup/carving of that DIY Duplex Sanding Pad from Festool ( https://www.festool.com/accessory/490780---ssh-stf-ls130-kit ) that Michael found, I stumbled over this:





Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

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Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1732
Quote
@HarveyWildes This is what you’re inventing.
« Last Edit: Today at 04:42 PM by Michael Kellough »

Yes, that is what I was thinking of. Maybe I saw that some time ago
and forgot, but it's right in line with what I pictured, and the price
seems reasonable when you factor in all the sanding it could save.

-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7675
This is what you’re inventing.[/url]

Unfortunately, that's only a viable solution for large radiused profiles. From my experience there are 2 or 3 inherent problems involved when using this option on small/tight profiles.

1. The thickness of the sandpaper
2. The stiffness of the sandpaper substrate
3. The size of the sandpaper granules

All 3 of these issues add up to be a very ineffectual solution to power sanding small dimensioned/featured wooden profiles.

I'm thinking something more along the lines of the old 3M WetorDry sand paper or the 3M Tri-M-ite sand paper. It was composed of a very thin backing paper that was also very flexible and very tough. That, combined with the small diameter sanding granules allowed the stuff to get into the nooks & crannies that were incredibly small. The small granule size may not be great for removing existing finishes, but that's better left to stripping compounds.

The small granules would then be effective in abrading the surface and providing a tooth for the new finish to adhere to.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 09:06 AM by Cheese »

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3740
when I was waaayyyy back in high school shop class, we used a wet/drysand paper that was very thin and very flexible to get into all sorts of tight and intricate places. We could fold it back against a very sharp corner of a sanding pad that we had cut to fit into a very tight corner. The sand paper would not tear with such a tight bend. I don't remember if the backing material was paper or cloth. I just remember using the paper/cloth to get into very tight corners.

Later, during my learning period in the real world, I was often shunted off with the painting crew (I actually hated painting and especially the sanding in preparation for the painting) and the painters would sand some very intricate moldings where they would get into very tight corners with a very stiff paper with fine grit. That was way back even before I was 38, so I don't remember all the details. As I progressed and eventually got into my trade, if the part did not fit, we used a bigger hammer. We weren't using paint, but paster hid many deficiencies. We used trowels and other finishing tools. I liked that much better.

Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1453
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer
@Cheese

 [big grin]  [eek]  [big grin]  [smile]







Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7675
@Cheese

 [big grin]  [eek]  [big grin]  [smile]







Kind regards,
Oliver

That's funny Oliver...but that's exactly the stuff I'm talking about. Maybe the new Festool net would be flexible enough to work for this application?  I don't have any so I have no experience with it.

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1453
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer
That's what happens when you turn 3 different generation workshops into one, more or less. I knew exactly what you were talking about and in which drawer I would find it. :)

I think the net stuff would be flexible enough.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 7675

Don't hunt for the S473 if you can get your hands on the Festool Granat sponges, I went looking for my after Uli mentioned them, and they are probably exactly the same ... except for the abrasive itself? I would love to know if Festools sponges are made in the UK, if they are - the Bosch are as well. I wouldn't be surprised if there is only one real manufacturer for these sponges and the only difference is the quality of abrasive and bonding.


Thanks for that observation Oliver as I was going to order a few S473 packages from Amazon UK. So, I went back and looked at the Festool sanding sponges, 201112 (60 grit), 201113 (120 grit), 201114 (220 grit) & 201507 (800 grit). They appear to be the very same as the Bosch S473 offerings. Same pad size & same pad thickness.  [cool]

The Bosch S473 pads I've seen are orange, yellow & green. However, I noticed you were using a Bosch blue pad, would that be the equivalent of the Festool 201507 800 grit or more like the 201114 220 grit pad?


Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1453
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer
Sadly, Bosch doesn't offer any information on the actual grit. Or at least I can't find that information.

What I can say, is:

Green = super fine
Yellow = fine
Orange = medium

Those are the Bosch Professional S473 Best for Contour

And my guess is, they more or less equal the Festool 800, 220 and (probably) 120 grit.

The blue Bosch pad, although sold to me along with the yellow and other Professional sponge products from Bosch, seems to be from Bosch's DIY line up: https://www.ebay.de/itm/BOSCH-Schwamm-fur-Konturen-best-fur-Contour-mittel-2609256349-/122920761708 (ebay Link just for reference) which are not color coded, all of them are blue. BUT: They sell this as medium, but the grit is way coarse than 120, at least 80, maybe even "just" 60. And it seems not to be sold in all countries. If I switch from Germany to UK on the Bosch DIY site, I get the Professional sponge products.

BTW: Both the Festool and Bosch (Professional) sponges are made in the UK.

Pictures copyright by Bosch.






Personally I'd go with 60, 120, 220 for wood applications, rather than 120, 220, 800.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline mike_aa

  • Posts: 1178
when I was waaayyyy back in high school shop class, we used a wet/drysand paper.......

Tinker
@Tinker How many moons ago was that?   [big grin]

Mike A.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3740
at least >>>>>>>>>> oh! I
when I was waaayyyy back in high school shop class, we used a wet/drysand paper.......

Tinker
@Tinker How many moons ago was that?   [big grin]

Mike A.

can't count that far.

Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1453
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer
Advertisement (Because of visible Klein Tools, you guys now the drill by now ... ;) )


Hi!

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving & safe travels!

Black Friday is traditionally the day when we put up our Christmas decorations and hang string lights.

By now we have replaced most of our classic string lights with those that have LED's instead of incandescent bulbs. Because it seems these magically form clusters that can't be entangled, every year I neatly and carefully wrap one string on one piece of cardboard when we stash them away in January.

Now I'm not telling anyone anything new, but every year it's the same. I neatly store them, and come Christmas time - something goes awry.

I checked these string lights, worked flawless. I get up the ladder, and have about 1/3rd of them neatly placed in the tree, they stop working.

I take them back down and start looking for the culprit.


Here it is. See that rusty spot? The original shrink tube bursted open, probably a conjunction of freezing temperatures, the material becoming brittle, winds tugging on the the branches, and finally the branches tugging the string lights.


It's times like this, I especially love my gas-powered soldering iron. Setup is quick and clean.



Using a fine soldering tip, I re-connect the wire.



And *yay* it works again.



A little pause and change of tip, this time for heat shrinking. Applying and shrinking of shrink tube.






Using some camo duck (duct) tape to cover the red shrink tube.






I think I have yet to come around a single Christmas time where I didn't have to replace or work on some pesky string lights ... ;)

Everyone, have a great Advent, enjoy the season!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1453
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer
Another year has come and (almost) gone.

I'd like to thank each and everyone here on the FOG for the great discussions, tips and time shared together on this forum.

I'd like to thank Festool for lending an ear whenever asked for it, for "care packages" received and the all around great communication with even their smallest customer.

Last but not least, I'd like to thank Peter and Seth for their tireless, personal engagement to keep this place what it is, THANK YOU!

That said, time has come for me to say goodbye and wish everyone well!

With the new year approaching, I decided to quit writing about my projects and endeavors of trying "new to me"-tools. I also won't take anymore time for general debating/ discussing online - the time saved will be distributed between and spend on my various interests. Although, it was an incredibly fun ride!

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year everyone!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 571
Ah Oliver!

Best wishes too you. Only one thing more precious and costly. That’s time. Something you can simply not buy, so spend it wise!

Thank you for sharing, it was a delight to follow and learn.

See you when I see you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 6289
  • Festool Baby.....
To Bad Oliver,

I really enjoyed your post and I enjoyed you to.

 I wish you the best in whatever, wherever you may do.

Thank you for everything Have a Merry Christmas, please do stop in from time to time.

We'd love to hear from you.

Ron

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 1081
Merry Christmas Oliver!  I especially enjoyed your contributions to the What's Cooking thread.

Best of luck!
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1973
You’ll be missed Oliver!  Happy Holidays and be well.  Reach out if you ever need anything.
-Raj

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Hi Oliver, sad to read this but, fully understand.
I love reading your posts old and new, and admire your approach to things, so you will leave a noticeable void here.
However, life is short and we must make the most of it. So I hope you will enjoy your other interests and pastimes.
Hopefully you’ll still pop in every so often though.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!  [wink]

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1732
Hello Oliver,

I was caught off guard by your announcement that you would
no longer be participating here. Your posts and comments are
a valuable part of this forum. This thread in particular is one I
have looked forward to seeing updates from you.

Best wishes in your future endeavors. May God be with you.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3740
Oliver, Your leaving will leave a big hole in all of our education. We will miss your observations all the way from your tidbits to your culinary. Take care of yourself in whatever you do to take up your time. I am sure that won't be wasteful in any way.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1453
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer
Hi everyone.

I'm breaking out of my self-imposed internet quarantine and will be contributing again.

In the beginning of the year I had a bigger project, renovating our house's staircase from 1st floor down to the basement. We never liked the dark color, but couldn't help but ask what we would find after stripping it. Would it be worse?

Now in December '19 we got new neighbors, they invited us to a housewarming party and they stripped/sanded that staircase. (All houses feature the same.) We really liked what we saw and decided to sand and re-finish ours as well.

So welcome to my sanding galore.

As usual I rely on my Festool DTS 400 connected to my CTL-SYS and SYS-PH. Starting with GranatNet und Brilliant 2 both 120 grit. Whenever I use GranatNet I also use the protection pad PP-STF Klett Delta /2 203347.



Fairly quickly we realized we would be very pleased with the results.







It went very well, as always. But, you have to consider that GranatNet excels when sanding very, very dry materials that create a lot of dust. In those areas, where the staircase was frequently touched, and thus dead skin/ skin fat "accumulated" my findings/experience from sanding down the patio's roof sub-structure covered with residue from ivy were confirmed once again: Brilliant 2 is way better in those areas, it less prone to clogging and as a result it lasts longer.

















The DTS is very versatile and great to use even in constricted spaces, but the space between single beams of that staircase was too small even for the DTS. Using just the tip isn't a great option, as you can't rotate the sanding paper on that DTS. A little test confirmed it would be a great job for the Fein Multimaster AFFM 18 QSL. So I bought more common 120 and 180 grit sanding paper from Fein - after them telling me there is no dust extraction for this model, which was a major mistake/misinformation as it was just released in January - the two people at Fein I talked to, didn't know. I'm actually still a bit worked up, thinking about it.

More on the Fein dust extraction set and corresponding story: https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/dust-extraction-set-by-fein-for-afsc-18-fsc-500-afmm-18-fmm-350-(all-qsl)/msg605200/  [wink]

However the common sanding paper, that is Made in USA, by Fein is highly recommended. It's better than everything else I tried for true delta sanders. It's both long lasting and makes for a smooth surface.

Additionally I bough some more GranatNet 180 grit.

The original idea was to use the Festool "One-Step" oil and the Surfix system for finishing the staircase.













I just have to say it, the Surfix set is typically Festool. Well made, great & multipurpose packaging, just very cool/gimmicky. I loved it!

But first, more sanding!















Here's a comparison between the different kind of surface achieved with the DTS and Fein:



Then there was a little challenge. When the staircase was installed, they stripped one screw. That has been sitting like forever like this, and I wanted to rectify it now that I was working on the staircase. So I used my tried and true PDC and the Centrotec HSS drill bits to drill the screw out, free hand. 





Then I more sanding, 120 grit - right down to the basement. Then starting all over again with 180 grit on the 1st floor, all the way down to the basement again.

Who doesn't know the scene, Karate Kid (1984) "Wax on, wax off."  [big grin]



The dust created by sanding without dust extraction is incredible. Maybe that explains why I'm still ticked off by the missinformation received from Fein. I know one should let go of stuff like this, as it is not healthy to keep letting something trivial as this tick you off time and time again, but somehow, I'm still ticked off.  [eek] [unsure] [wink]





Then it was time to paint the ceilings. Good preparation and great masking tape make all the difference!



Then I cleaned everything by tack cloth.

Then I wanted to finish the staircase by applying Festool "One-Step" oil with the Surfix system.



I applied a bit to test the waters. While the Surfix-System seen as whole worked flawless, was easy and a pleasure to use, I immediately new it would be coming out too dark. Totally not what we wanted. Oil has a way of always making the grain/color stand out, but I really didn't expect it to be like that - especially since "One-Step" is supposed to be on the "milder" side if that makes sense - whatever "mild" is when speaking of mahogany. Anyway, I obviously didn't know what to expect. All I knew immediately was, that's not what we want.



So I let it dry, to sand it off again.

While that had to happen, I replaced all the screws of the staircase. Really just one type of screw can be used for that, a oval-head countersunk wood screw as laid out in DIN 95.






I installed all of them by hand. (Over 90 screws ...) Thanks to my exceptional PB Swiss tools (perfect fit and transmission of force) without any accidents/ marring the screws or wood. I also replaced all of the spacers.





What remained was the question of how to finish the staircase. And sometimes it's right in front of you. We're using a liquified bee's wax for our furniture build from Belgian oak: "O'Cedar Cire Liquide" ( https://www.monoprix.fr/courses/cire-liquide-meubles-et-parquets-a-la-cire-dabeille-ocedar-2823147-p ) and that worked perfectly on the staircase and gave us the desired result.





After work some deep-fried "Soulfood" (sadly not the Belgian original, but the Germany available type) and some fantastic beer.




##

Something easy in between. While tidying up the living room, we decided our every-day-network-player-radio-thingy should finally move into the bookshelf. So I needed a larger hole for the cables. I decided against drilling one large hole, but rather drilled two smaller, overlapping holes. So easy with the Festool Zobo drill bits. Perfect holes.



##

Fast forward we're at last weeks Monday. It was time to varnish the sheds and raised flower bed again. Additionally I wanted to build a small shelter for garden materials and bags of green waste. Before, I had placed that stuff on the bigger sheds patio, but it was taking a heavy toll on the shed's patio.

We're all in the same boat speaking of Corona, all places that accept green waste are closed - but with the really great weather we're having, the backyard doesn't care about nor wait for Corona to be gone. The foundation by using some pavers I kept and a "one way pallet" was easily built. Additionally the bigger shed needed some new trimming on the roof.



Now the only thing missing was a roof.

So lets grab some tools and start.







I wanted a simple construction with as less material cost as possible.

So I bought a couple of construction grade posts, 2 oriented strand boards (the first and only time I will ever use this stuff!) and two hinges. I had a rest of tar paper sitting in one shed.

This is the basic layout/construction. Frame is held by Spax Hi.Force wafer-head screws 6x140. The backside is overlapping on purpose and held in place by Spax Wirox screws. The three posts in the back are about 9 cm shorter than those in the front.



The roof is made from two strips of oriented strand board (tongue and groove technique) and glued with Titebond III Ultimate and additionally hold together by three bars screwed in place. The bars have been pre-drilled and countersunk with Festool's BSTA-HS-D-3,5-CE: https://www.festool.com/accessory/492523---bsta-hs-d-3,5-ce  When I screwed the middle bar in place I had it in the wrong position, because I rotated the roof in-between. No biggy, I simply shortened the middle post by one centimeter, so the bar would fit over.





First fit in place.



Details:

Hinges are fastened with 3x Spax Wirox 5/5,5 x 60 screws on the end grain posts. On the roof it's 3x 3,5x20.





View from afar.



Obviously I emptied it again for varnishing. Roof tilted and closed.





After everything was said and done, I found my old, converted to electrical power, "Feuerhand Baby-Western" lantern, and thought it would be a great addition to the shed.










Hope everyones enjoys the update on what I have been up to, and I'm happy to report back to the FOG.
Also hope everyone had a great Easter, as far as Corona permitted - and I'm keeping every single one of you guys in my thoughts and prayers during this demanding time. Stay safe everyone!

Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 07:28 AM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1732
Welcome back! But you were never gone in a sense, we had your past posts to enjoy.

I can see you've been busy, very busy. But the results speak for themselves. Looks great!
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12279
  • Remington Steele - My Third Boy
Oliver, always great to read your posts!  Stay safe and stay well, and the same wishes for your family!

Peter

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1973
Good god, you broke my internet with all those pics!   [tongue]  All that sanding dust nearly had me coughing 4000 miles away!  I’ve used my Fein once for sanding (before I learned of Festool), never used to again for that purpose.  Regardless, that staircase was quite the labor of love, well done!  And welcome back, stay well!
-Raj

Offline mike_aa

  • Posts: 1178
@six-point socket II 

Oliver, I am so thrilled to see you back here posting again!  You have been sorely missed.

You are truly one of the "good guys" and I thank you for all your past postings and look forward to your future ones!

Welcome back!

Mike A.

Offline jonnyrocket

  • Posts: 71

However the common sanding paper, that is Made in USA, by Fein is highly recommended. It's better than everything else I tried for true delta sanders. It's both long lasting and makes for a smooth surface.

Did I read this correctly? Are you saying that the Fein paper performed better than the GranatNet paper?
Or are you saying that you like it better than non-fein brands you have used on your Fein?

Offline JSlovic

  • Posts: 112
Oliver
Welcome back!
I'm glad my wife dosen't see all your great work She'd get me off of BDC in a hurry

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2861
Great work on the sanding and finishing.  That's a LOT of detail work.  Glad to have you posting again.  Stay safe!

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Hi Oliver, I’m really glad you’re back doing your thing, and documenting here in great detail as always.
I’ve built a good few staircases in my time, starting from scratch, and also the later part assembled versions. By far the most fiddly thing I’ve ever done with staircases, is sanding them, I find it so tedious even with the proper tools.

So I take my hat of to you, on doing such a great job. Out of interest, how long did the sanding take?

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1453
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer
Welcome back! But you were never gone in a sense, we had your past posts to enjoy.

I can see you've been busy, very busy. But the results speak for themselves. Looks great!

Thank you very much, Bob!

Oliver, always great to read your posts!  Stay safe and stay well, and the same wishes for your family!

Peter

Thank you very much, Peter!

Good god, you broke my internet with all those pics!   [tongue]  All that sanding dust nearly had me coughing 4000 miles away!  I’ve used my Fein once for sanding (before I learned of Festool), never used to again for that purpose.  Regardless, that staircase was quite the labor of love, well done!  And welcome back, stay well!

Thank you very much, Raj! Luckily I had my P3 dust mask. :)

@six-point socket II 

Oliver, I am so thrilled to see you back here posting again!  You have been sorely missed.

You are truly one of the "good guys" and I thank you for all your past postings and look forward to your future ones!

Welcome back!

Mike A.

Thank you very much, Mike! Let me tell you, I missed all the great people and this place as well!


However the common sanding paper, that is Made in USA, by Fein is highly recommended. It's better than everything else I tried for true delta sanders. It's both long lasting and makes for a smooth surface.

Did I read this correctly? Are you saying that the Fein paper performed better than the GranatNet paper?
Or are you saying that you like it better than non-fein brands you have used on your Fein?

It's the latter. I have used a lot of different brand of sanding paper on the Fein, and nothing stood the test of time better than the original Fein paper. Better than GranatNet, no - definitely no. :)

Oliver
Welcome back!
I'm glad my wife dosen't see all your great work She'd get me off of BDC in a hurry

Thank you very much!

Great work on the sanding and finishing.  That's a LOT of detail work.  Glad to have you posting again.  Stay safe!

Thank you very much, Neil!

Hi Oliver, I’m really glad you’re back doing your thing, and documenting here in great detail as always.
I’ve built a good few staircases in my time, starting from scratch, and also the later part assembled versions. By far the most fiddly thing I’ve ever done with staircases, is sanding them, I find it so tedious even with the proper tools.

So I take my hat of to you, on doing such a great job. Out of interest, how long did the sanding take?

Thank you very much, Jiggy! It took me 3 days at about 8 hrs a day.


Kind regards, an everyone be safe!
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International