Author Topic: Sharpening System  (Read 4209 times)

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Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 932
Sharpening System
« on: January 03, 2019, 09:24 AM »
This subject is certainly a hot topic on this sub forum. However since technology is going so fast I'd like to know what you guys think about M-POWER FASTTRACK PRECISION SHARPENING SYSTEM



I have a few Veritas chisels and planes that need to be refreshed. I do not use them enough to consider practicing the techniques to hand sharpening. I'm considering a sharpening system. I know there are several on the market, some more costly then others. But that one from M-Power is the least expensive system I found, the learning curve seems to be minimal. Is it good enough for the use i do?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 09:26 AM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

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Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1467
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2019, 10:33 AM »
That should work but an Atoma diamond plate would serve you better.


Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 333
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2019, 12:03 PM »
Mario, don't waste your money. That has got to be the worst sharpening system around!

If you believe that you will not develop hand skills, use a honing guide. Not that thing. It's just a gimmick.

You will never get a blade sharp enough for woodworking safely using diamond stones alone. They do not go high enough in grit (at best, an "ultra fine" is 1200 grit. I begin sharpening at 1000 grit and go to 13000on waterstones).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2655
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2019, 12:25 PM »
i have the predecessor and it was junky.

I am trying to learn hand sharpening, but the Lie Nielsen honing guide with their water stones puts a mirror finish on chisels and plane irons.

The Work Sharp system works well also.
Birdhunter

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 932
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2019, 12:31 PM »
You all confirm that this system is a no go for me  [eek]

I was trying to save money  [sad]

@derekcohen , if I go with wet stones, what grit do i need to start with? all my chisels and planes are in a brand new state and I take great care of them.

Is diamond stone a viable option since I will use the stones once or twice a week?
Mario

Offline travisj

  • Posts: 363
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2019, 12:33 PM »
Considering you probably don’t have the need to invest in a Tormek or a good set of water stones, I would recommend what I was told was the “scary sharp” method.  Basically it is self adhesive wet/dry sandpaper on a sheet of glass.  I know at one point Rockler or Woodcraft sold a starter kit.  Pair that with the Veritas honing guide and you will be set.  It’s about as easy as it can get.  I’ve done a lot of chisels and plane irons with that set up before I tried other options.

https://www.rockler.com/plate-glass-sharpening-system-fine

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43072,43078&p=51868

If you don’t like that, a set of water stones paired with the Veritas guide are great.  I do not care for the Worksharp 3000 I have.  I love my Tormek.




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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1192
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2019, 12:40 PM »
I sharpen freehand, and occasionally with a Veritas honing jig (e.g. for my 1/8" chisel, or the skew blade for my rabbet plane, and those harder to hold by hand).

Now and then, I use water stones (esp. for the Japanese chisel and blade) which I flatten with a diamond stone after use.  In the winter, I don't use water stones because my shop (garage) is cold (and stones can crack if not brought inside). I use these exclusively, with or without stropping as the final step:

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=68943&cat=1,43072

Very effective and much quicker than honing on water stones. Plus zero maintenance, no messing of water on my bench for quick honing, etc. In subsequent honing the micro-bevel, you can start right from the 0.5u film (about 9000x). The ruler trick can also be used for those who do that.

If you decide to go with water stones, this or something like that is almost indispensable: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=33027&cat=1,43072,67175,67176

« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 01:06 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Mortiser

  • Posts: 43
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2019, 01:26 PM »
Mario, I use the Krenov method (The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking) for sharpening chisels and plane irons. Yep, I still use a hand grinder and Arkansas stones. Low tech, hollow grind, can't ruin your steel and it's worked well for me for thirty years. You'll find that you'll get "in tune" with your cutting tools. In fact I have a Makita, power water stone sharpener but I continue to prefer the by-hand process.
Good luck finding a method that works for you.
Rich

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 267
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2019, 02:37 PM »
No comments on cost.  I use the Veritas spinning sandpaper machine for chisels and planes.  It was out many years before the Worksharp.  Its good for initial flattening and grinding bevels.  Then a 6000 or so Waterstone for final honing and re-honing during cutting.  I do not like Waterstones for anything but final honing.  They cup/dish too quickly.  A superfine sandpaper would also work for honing.  I also use the Veritas guide or one of those side pinch guides.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 501
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2019, 03:32 PM »
You will never get a blade sharp enough for woodworking safely using diamond stones alone. They do not go high enough in grit (at best, an "ultra fine" is 1200 grit. I begin sharpening at 1000 grit and go to 13000on waterstones).

Regards from Perth

Derek

I find masses of old oilstones in secondhand shops, I'd be amazed if they were finer than 600 grit, makes you wonder how people managed to make things for centuries eh?

In my opinion they just sharpened to that level then burnished the planed timber by rubbing it with plane shavings. The early version of sandpaper, try it sometime.

As for honing guides I use a Veritas MK2 and also a Eclipse style guide when I want a nicely cambered plane blade.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1289
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2019, 04:35 PM »
Veritas MK2 is easy to use, not completely overpriced and waterproof.

The ~20$ double sided waterstones from amazon (I got one 400/1000 and another 3000/8000) hold up reasonably well for their price and are quick to restore my chisels to better than new. As I'm lazy I keep my stones submerged in a closed plastic container, which makes them ready to use whenever I need them.

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 333
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2019, 08:04 PM »
You all confirm that this system is a no go for me  [eek]

I was trying to save money  [sad]

@derekcohen , if I go with wet stones, what grit do i need to start with? all my chisels and planes are in a brand new state and I take great care of them.

Is diamond stone a viable option since I will use the stones once or twice a week?

Mario, you could save a lot of money now by never sharpening the chisels and leaving them hanging on the wall! :)

Assuming that you do want to use them, getting them properly sharp is not only going to make them useful, but also safe to use. Dull tool cause more damage than sharp tools.

All bench chilsels need to be honed at 30 degrees. If you use a honing guide, then a secondary bevel will get you there fastest. The old Eclipse style honing guide is still the cheapest (and one of the best) around. Get a knock off as Eclipse no longer manufacture them. The Veritas Mk 11 is excellent, but pricey.

Don't rule out grinding. This is necessary when an edge chips or when the secondary bevel gets too large to hone efficiently. Do you have anything to use? Bench grinder? Belt sander?

Waterstones vary in price considerably. Largely you get what you pay for. One of the least-fuss types is Shapton. You need three: 1000/5000/12000 grit. You also need something to flatten them - a sheet of 240 grit wet-and-dry sandpaper on glass would surfice. Better is a 240 grit (thereabouts) diamond stone. Note that the diamond stone must be flat.

All this is quite dangerous, since you will discover the joy of a sharp chisel, and want to use hand tools more and more! That can be costly!! :)

My system is here:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/UltimateGrindingSharpeningSetUp.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 267
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2019, 02:21 AM »
You will never get a blade sharp enough for woodworking safely using diamond stones alone. They do not go high enough in grit (at best, an "ultra fine" is 1200 grit. I begin sharpening at 1000 grit and go to 13000on waterstones).

Regards from Perth

Derek

I find masses of old oilstones in secondhand shops, I'd be amazed if they were finer than 600 grit, makes you wonder how people managed to make things for centuries eh?

After sharpening on the 600 grit oilstone, they STROPPED the chisel or plane iron on a piece of leather coated with pumice.  The stropping is what people use the 6000 grit sandpaper or Waterstones today.

Offline tassiedevil

  • Posts: 1
  • Retired IT engineer. Making sawdust by the water
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2019, 03:47 AM »
I use one of these guides
290070-0
$18 from eBay along with some cheap, thin diamond plates $5 also from eBay.
The plates are too thin to use as is so are glued down to a piece of 8mm aluminuim flat bar.
The diamond plates are in 240, 800 and 1200 grit.
Finally a leather strop with polishng compound.

Certainly gets them sharp enough for my skill level
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 03:54 AM by tassiedevil »
Geoff

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2655
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2019, 05:25 AM »
I confess that I’ve tried just about every sharpening technique: slow speed grinder, Tormak, WorkSharp, diamond stones, and waterstones.

I’ve settled on the Lie Nielsen guide and the waterstones LN sells. For the first time in over 30 years of woodworking, I have incredibly sharp planes and chisels that are a pleasure to use. My stones go from 1000 to 10,000.

I use the 8000 and 10,000 for touch up while I’m working. It just takes a few strokes to refresh an edge. LN sells a flattening plate that I use to flatten the stones. I constructed the set up jig the LN uses to get a repeatable angle. Works great.
Birdhunter

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 333
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2019, 07:36 AM »
I use one of these guides ...
$18 from eBay along with some cheap, thin diamond plates $5 also from eBay.
The plates are too thin to use as is so are glued down to a piece of 8mm aluminuim flat bar.
The diamond plates are in 240, 800 and 1200 grit.
Finally a leather strop with polishng compound.

Certainly gets them sharp enough for my skill level

I have a few $5 diamond plates as well. Possibly from the same eBay seller. They are 800/1000/3000 grit and, together with a strop (green compound on hardwood), they form my travelling set for demonstrations and wood shows.

I glued them to UHMV with epoxy. This makes the waterproof. They are flat when used on a flat bench.





Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline promark747

  • Posts: 472
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2019, 11:38 AM »
I always felt the biggest issue with the M-Power system was that the abrasive was held in one spot and the edge of the tool was fixed in the exact same location, which would cause even a diamond plate to wear prematurely.

Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2019, 09:09 AM »
Derek pushed me over the edge on Sharpening and like he said it is addictive and fun!

My set up when I first set it up.....



I have added a few things since the pic.   [wink]

I also purchased a Tormek.  [big grin]

John

Offline Ollie

  • Posts: 46
Re: Sharpening System
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2019, 04:33 AM »
Hi

A bit late perhaps, but I have been through pretty much all sharpening methods. I don't personally like tormech style grinders as they produce a hollow grind which is no good for laminated japanese blades.
I have a kit by Norton which is a plastic box with 3 Waterstones mounted in a triangular holder, this is all you need for maintaining super sharp blades, also comes with a flattening stone and a nagura stone if I remember rightly, but maybe I bought that separate.
It is self contained and has built in water bath. Had mine 10 years and not worn out yet
https://www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Norton-IM83-Waterstone-Sharpening-System-NIM83_825825.html#SID=472

For really battered blades or reshaping blades the worksharp 3000 is great as it keeps a flat grind.
If I didn't have the Norton kit I might go with the scary sharp adhesive film method as seen at workshop heaven.

https://www.workshopheaven.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?dir=desc&order=relevance&q=Sharpening&wsh_brands=100

you will get good at it quite fast, it is not difficult it's more like a feel and muscle memory thing once you get it thats it, it becomes automatic.
It's a good excuse to buy a nice new set of Japanese chisels, you know just so you can practice getting your technique perfect!!!

Ollie