Author Topic: Scraping Planes  (Read 696 times)

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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3938
Scraping Planes
« on: May 21, 2020, 03:27 PM »
I've started to turn more to scraping tools to finish surfaces when the normal smooth plane can't get the job done.  I currently have the large LV scraper, as well as the LV cabinet scraper, but I'm thinking now of getting the LN cabinet maker's scraper (which despite the name has a normal rabbeting bench plane body), as I've found the footprint of the larger LV one sometimes too big for some of the pieces I've been using it on.  I'm wondering though about the advantages/disadvantages of the thinner steel blade (which comes standard on the LV scrapers) vs. a normal plane iron (which is what the LN scrapers use).  Obviously there is the ability to adjust on the fly the camber on the thinner steel blades, but other than that, what are the reasons to prefer one over the other?
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Offline CeeJay

  • Posts: 53
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2020, 04:09 PM »
I much prefer the card scraper approach myself. The cards are very easy to use either hand held or in a body like the Veritas holder.

The cards are cheap, and it’s a 30 second task to put a new hook on the edge with the cards vs a much longer exercise with the plane irons.


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Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2024
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2020, 04:15 PM »
The cards are cheap, and it’s a 30 second task to put a new hook on the edge with the cards vs a much longer exercise with the plane irons.
Agreed. The way scraper works it needs sharpening/new hook much more often than regular plane. It becomes a hassle if the blade is in a plane body.
On the other hand card scraper is tiring for fingers.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 04:47 PM by Svar »

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 586
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2020, 04:17 PM »
I don't know about any one of those, I have a Luben 112 scraper plane, a copy of a Stanley No 80 scraper, a Veritas cabinet scraper and holder and an Ulmia toothing plane.with Lignum sole.

I've not bothered putting a hook on the blades for the 112 or the 80 and they don't seem too fussy about it. Just a 45 degree sharp angle has been pretty good so far.
The cabinet scraper needs the hook and maybe I'm doing it wrong but the hook doesn't seem to last well.
The Ulmia toothing plane I sharpen to a 30 degree angle, it leaves a toothed finish, goes across the grain if I want and after I'm done I can scrape the toothed surface down with...a scraper.

Most of them I got cheap off Ebay but I bought the 112 new, I'm still happy with it though.
The 80 is the real workhorse though, it just works.

Offline mwolczko

  • Posts: 36
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2020, 04:48 PM »
I have the Veritas Scraping Plane. The blade is thin, and there’s a screw that sets how much bend you want. Also, the angle is adjustable across a wide range (25 degrees).
After putting a hook on the blade, you use it until it won’t cut, then adjust the angle by a degree or so and repeat. You can scrape quite a lot of area before you reach the end of the travel and have to re-form the hook.

Offline Bill Fleming

  • Posts: 23
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2020, 08:23 PM »
I too have the LV scrapper plane, I prefer to use it with heavy LN.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2982
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2020, 08:59 PM »
I’ve owned a LN scraping plane for many years. I’ve never figured out how to make it work.
Birdhunter

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3938
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2020, 10:11 PM »
I much prefer the scraper plane or cabinet scraper to just a simple card scraper, which does indeed get tiresome on the hands.

The cards are cheap, and it’s a 30 second task to put a new hook on the edge with the cards vs a much longer exercise with the plane irons.
Agreed. The way scraper works it needs sharpening/new hook much more often than regular plane. It becomes a hassle if the blade is in a plane body.
On the other hand card scraper is tiring for fingers.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • AGC 18-115 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2298
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2020, 10:24 AM »
I much prefer the scraper plane or cabinet scraper to just a simple card scraper, which does indeed get tiresome on the hands.

The cards are cheap, and it’s a 30 second task to put a new hook on the edge with the cards vs a much longer exercise with the plane irons.
Agreed. The way scraper works it needs sharpening/new hook much more often than regular plane. It becomes a hassle if the blade is in a plane body.
On the other hand card scraper is tiring for fingers.
  Don't forget about the heat issue as the heat sneaks up the Card Scraper into your fingers.... [mad]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1702
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2020, 12:09 PM »

Snip.
  Don't forget about the heat issue as the heat sneaks up the Card Scraper into your fingers.... [mad]
[/quote]

Protect your fingers (and scrapers in storage) with fridge magnets.

Offline CeeJay

  • Posts: 53
Scraping Planes
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2020, 12:28 PM »
Nice tip on the fridge magnets. Good idea. I find if doing a lot of scraping then the Veritas card scraper holder helps a lot with stress on the fingers plus dealing with the heat build up.


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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3938
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2020, 01:23 PM »
I also find that the cards will once in a while skip around particularly difficult grain, even when well burnished, whereas I always get a consistent cut with the plane or cabinet scraper as long as the edge is good.

But back to the original question -- any preference or observation of differences b/w thin steel and thick plane iron in a scraper plane?
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • AGC 18-115 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Cochese

  • Posts: 320
    • The 144 Workshop
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2020, 01:53 PM »
I just got my LV cabinet scraper the other day and it is wonderful. Much preferred to using one in my hand.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1702
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2020, 02:42 PM »
Snip.

But back to the original question -- any preference or observation of differences b/w thin steel and thick plane iron in a scraper plane?

Not sure if you're referring to the L-N 112 Large Scraping Plane or 85 Cabinet Maker's Scraper.

The L-N scraper blade is to be sharpened like a regular blade and a hook is not needed (burnishing is not needed, that's). You can burnish it, but the cutting will be aggressive.

The thin blade in the Veritas Scraping Plane -- slightly under 1/16" (if you want a thicker one, 1/8" is available, comparable to LN No. 112's) -- should make for a more responsive bowing. The blade is burnished before use.

I don't expect to see any major differences in use and results between the blades of different thicknesses.

Card scrapers and scraping planes (vertical handles as found in a bench plane)/cabinet scrapers (side handles) are designed to serve different needs. The latter is a workhorse for large panels or prolonged duration of use; the former for touch-ups, and quick and smaller jobs. For spot-treatments/tight spaces/non-flat areas and curved surfaces, card scrapers are the natural choice.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 03:09 PM by ChuckM »

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 428
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2020, 09:06 PM »
Quote
The L-N scraper blade is to be sharpened like a regular blade and a hook is not needed (burnishing is not needed, that's). You can burnish it, but the cutting will be aggressive.

It is correct that you can do it both ways. However, the non-hook method is only recommended for beginners. I always use a hook, and there are a couple of ways to ways to achieve this. The hook is the “bevel”, and you not only create a cleaner surface with one, but the scraper cuts more easily.

I have long since sold off all my scraper planes. Not only are they unnecessary when you use a well set up hand plane, but they are cumbersome and do not produce a good finish. Instead, set up a bevel down plane using the chipbreaker to control tearout, or use a high cutting angle in a BU plane.

I could get decent results from my Stanley #112, so it is not that they do not work .. just not work as well ...





I do use cabinet scrapers (card scrapers) quite frequently. Sharpening them is quick. Always with a hook:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/FoolproofSharpeningOfCard%28Cabinet%29Scraper.html

They are good for areas which are otherwise tricky or hard to work in ...



... or I use this thick one (made from the rear of a plane blade) for shaping curved areas (this is a bow drawer front)...



The last one is amazing! The hook is formed by hollow grinding the edge alone ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline Don Ware

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Anderson Plywood
Re: Scraping Planes
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2020, 09:53 PM »
I have a Stanley 112 and a Veritas scraping plane. The Veritas is a good plane. But all my Lie Nielsen planes work the Best !!!! I should get one, but don't tell my wife that !!!
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California